Tony, if it's in a IRA already, why not jump into the dividend stocks market which is mainly what the thread is about? It's a long term deal which if I remember correctly you're in your 30s still so you've got time.

38 this year.. the clock is a tickin'. I can look more into dividend stocks, but I just don't have a lot of confidence and think the market is very inflated right now. I know that's not the popular view here though. I just want to know all my options. I've got some research to do I guess.

Tony, don't worry about trying to time your entry into the market. That would only be necessary if you were looking to take distributions in <2-3 years. Since you're not touching the dollars for 20+ years, just get in and get going. Over the 20 year term, any dip you think might happen this year won't really matter. Conversely, if you're wrong about a dip, you might lose out on some nice appreciation.

Tony -- Seriously -- go back to page one... start reading. It will take you several days at this stage to get thru it... but it should start to be helpful for you.

Will do Greg. I'm willingly dragging myself into this, at the same time resisting. But I know what needs to be done for the future. Something rather than nothing!

Yeah -- you're going to have to adjust your thinking out WAY longer term... And yes -- something is better than nothing. Nothing is the absolute worst thing anyone can do.

By the way -- you will learn via this thread that there's NEVER a good time to invest (the little man on Wall Street... you'll read about him). There's also never a time you shouldn't be investing.

Tony...

I feel we are in for some corrections this year..I will be adding assets on the dips...But regardless, you have to get Investing..

You have to scale in like this thread tell you to and you must be in the Investments to achieve your goals.

Inflation will eat your Cash...Dividends on Stocks get paid regardless if they go up or down in value...

Don't let fear keep you from acting...I have some reservations and this is all a calculated risk..But the risk of not Investing is worse..IMO

Today was a great day to be fully invested!! The DOW numbers don't reflect what my Schwab account did today. It was a wow! Gotta love it!

We're giving it all back, plus a little more today though!

If you were looking for a time to say things are going "on sale", this might be it.

blame it on me.. i set my 401k account to be completely re-balanced last night... LOL. :peepwall: :omg: :brix:

I don't know -- I was UP 48 grand on Tuesday and only down 11 grand today (Wednesday) so that's a net two gain gain.

:D




Okay - let me repeat this.... The little man on Wall Street knows your every move and he WILL take 'em down the day after you buy - and he'll take 'em up the day after you sell... :bang: :bang: :bang:


Happens every time.

I'll tell you what's been saving my bacon on this TINY selloff.. ALTRIA (MO)...

I own 40,000 shares of it -- and it's been UP while most everything else seems to be selling off a bit. That combined with JNK --- which HAS BEEN a steady eddy...

Sometimes owing stocks that don't go down very much (the steady eddies) -- is every bit as good as owning stocks that go up. In a poopie market that is.

They're like having an employee that isn't the best worker or even the smartest - but they show up EVERY DAY without fail... and put in a a days work. They're RELIABLE.

MO is one of my stable ones as well.. Its up 16% since i first jumped into it last year. But at one point it was down a percent or two. But since im in this for the long haul, i got 30+ years to go. So I aint worried about the dips (in fact, we welcome them!). I would consider "selling some profits", but the cost of the trade would take to large of chunk out of the profit to make it worthwhile (IMO). $1k invested last year, its up ~16%, so im +$160. And a sale would cost me ~$9. So thats a 5% cut. :(



On another note, here's some good news to us Coke owners.. We got a 10% Div increase today! http://seekingalpha.com/article/1210...y?source=kizur

I have to say this is a great thread. I understand the long term investment concept, but what if the long term isn't really an option? by that I mean 12 to 15 years before retirement. To little to late? just wondering how to improve things down the road.

Bob,

I am of course, no expert in this. I'm learning from this thread and on my own as I go.

But I have similar questions. Not for myself, but for my parents (61 and 59). Right now, their 401k sits in who knows what funds, making who knows what (squat? hopefully not).

I've been trying to get myself informed enough, to be able to jump in with them and work their situation out to better themselves, their window is a little shorter than yours due to health reasons (dad, 61, already medically retired and about to go under for heart and kidney transplant within the next few months/year).

My thoughts on the whole thing is getting in with good, long term, dividend growth stocks. Mainly "steady eddies", as to not "gamble" so much, but play it safe. Continue to review their account on a quarterly/yearly basis and "trim the fat". If we're actively watching it, i wouldnt be to crazily concerned about a huge downside in the market. Not that we can see it coming, but investing in solid dividend players should still prove to be profitable (ie. Coke, who's increased their dividend for 50+ years. Even in a down market, the dividend should still go up (or at least stay the same)).

Thats my thoughts on it anyway, but I am curious as to others opinions as well, as this is something I am interested in knowing. Good question to bring up!

Of course "taking a profit" is not to be misconstrued as just taking any old profit. It has to be an individual case by case basis. When I look at MY account and I see a stock I've bought has gone up 30%... I might - MIGHT - decided to take HALF that gain... That doesn't mean I sell have that stock -- I sell enough to equal HALF the gain. For instance -- I own 100K of stock - it's now 130K -- I might sell 15 to 20K of shares and then use that money to either buy another stock - average some loser down - or maybe I just pay my bills with it. Either way -- it's a gain... BUT I'm not talking about taking half of a $100 gain. Come on guys -- that's not going to make or break you... SO many of these rules are to be learned now - and exercised LATER when you really start to build your accounts up. AND if I think a stock has a lot more to go... then I wouldn't sell any of it if I've bought it for long term and think it's still a buy. This is something you learn and begin to feel. I look at it as "would I buy more shares here?" Or - "man that was a lucky buy... and I need to be conservative?"

Anything over about 3 years would be "long term" -- Then there is LONGER term -- which you'd be in. 10+ years is LONG TERM.


Now I would respond to your next statement --- When do you EVER feel it's "too late" to save some money or invest??

And -- Are you planning to die in 12 to 15 years -- or do you plan to live many years beyond that? If so - how many? 10 more years? 20? Remember that your money needs to last you to your last dying breath... And we all hope that's many many years from now.

And Charles Schwab ratings rank Altria as a D.

Have an opinion on that? Political?

Right.. which is why i threw in my measly $ amounts to show what kind of "profit" i had. And show the cost side that would be incurred IF I acted upon trying to "take" that profit. (ie. Bad idea).

Good explanation. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Thanks guys,
By all means I plan on living way past 10-15 years. I went with those numbers with the idea those years will be what I plan on working every day. So that will be my time fram to gain more $ to invest. I'm glad that the time I have to do this is considered long term gives me some hope. I have no doubt I am late to the party.

I NEVER use anyone else's rankings - or ideas. I'll use their ideas only to use to take a look at the idea. THEN I make my own decisions. I make my decisions based on that total return - my guts - the dividend... whether or not I KNOW the company and what they do... and whether or not I like the company and the businesses they're in. I don't smoke - I don't drink - that does not affect my decision... I went to Europe == I've been to Asia... they smoke and drink like mad! I thanked them for paying for my trip. :G-Dub:









They're not "measly" --- they're a beginning. You pooped your diapers before you learned to pull your pants down. You skinned your knees learning to ride a bike... you babbled before you spoke... YOU STARTED... and that makes you a winner in my book! :thumbsup:

Speaking of profit-taking...

Chicago Bridge and Iron (CBI) was a stock I've owned for a while now, but didn't really know WHY other than I read some articles a while back. I don't follow the industry, don't know the company, doesn't pay a dividend, and and it's not one of those companies that makes enough headlines to keep track of it easily.

The price skyrocketed in the last 3 months, so I sold out Tuesday after a 62% gain. More importantly I learned 3 things:
1) Don't be greedy
2) This was luck, and for every stock that I rely on luck to make me money, I will be AT least as unlucky for another stock.
3) I freed up money to invest in a 'steady eddy.'

It felt really good to learn a lesson and make money at the same time. I am seeing more and more that knowledge of a company is more valuable to my sanity than the share price. I rest easier knowing that I reduced my exposure to what I don't know, if that makes sense.




Greg, do you you think a young guy like me (29) should take an interest learning to "scale in and out" of the market? My sentiment is that this recent run may be a good time to see what scaling out (say 30% out) of my mutual funds can do, but remain all-in on my steady-eddy dividend stocks. My reason is, with all my money tied up now, I don't have any for periods when the market "goes on sale." Timing the market is bad I know, but I think I need some on the sidelines if I ever want to take advantage of a market on sale. Am I being logical? I am reading Ben Graham's "The Intelligent Investor" right now and it's drilling into my head that "money is made on the buy," so I am feeling more compelled to actually be ready to buy.

Thanks!!

Number ONE!!

Good for you for learning. Knowing what and why you own something is CRITICAL to being a decent INVESTOR.... and that's why I preach to know and understand what you own. It really really helps when the market SUCKS.... Nobody cares what they own when the market is hot -- but it's invaluable when you're dying the death of a 1000 cuts!


Number TWO...


Scaling in and out is not a good thing in the way you're "thinking". You'll be out when it goes up and you'll be in when it sucks and so on...

Scaling in and out is more about MENTALLY doing a checks and balances --- i.e., If you plan to invest 5,000 dollars --- or you intend to buy 1000 shares of something. It FEELS better to buy HALF.... and wait... watch - learn - is the stock doing what you thought or did you jump before you really did your homework etc. So give it a FULL quarter.... then buy another quarter.... OR maybe you made a mistake on the intial buy -- and lucky you! You only put in half!

It's a thing so you don't end up with buyers remorse. Same way selling. You can get sellers remorse... 'cause just after you sold half -- the SOB shoots up $3 a share on a better profit report (or something - whatever).


NOW ---- If you have no NEW MONEY -- then you just need to SAVE that new money.... so that your new money is actually new money - not the same money you already had invested. Selling to buy something else is EMPLOYEE RETRAINING - but you still have the same amount of employees! You need NEW employees.

This - of course... is in ADDITION to repositioning because you have a big loser --- or because a stock you owned doubled or something -- and you're just retraining. But you don't want to sell one stock just because it's going up to buy something else you think MIGHT go up. Do that with new money.

AND --- if you're a real investor -- stay 100% invested with all your long term funds. When the stocks go DOWN -- your dividends will be buying you more shares at lower prices -- but if you don't own the stocks - you won't get the dividends! Your dividends being reinvested for you each quarter is also an automatic scale in.

Thanks GW, it always takes me 3-5 times of reading what you say until I 'get it' :idea: but that makes total sense.

Trading is fun until :computer: Gotta keep learning how to be an investor. :relax:

Agreed, I just don't understand the basis of Schwab's ratings at times compared to other sources and personal experience with given stocks.

Altria is one of the stocks in my portfolio I'm considering adding to the position, then I see that D rating from Schwab and it creates doubt in my strategy.

Here was a decent read from today regarding Coke, and dividend investing.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/1210...ticle_readmore

I own 40,000 shares of Altria (MO) --- valued at 1.4MM --- it pays me $5,866 per MONTH... AND I have an unrealized gain of $183,996


IS THAT A "D" stock to you?? :D :relax:

I KNOW! Why does Schwab have it rated D!!!!! Their rating system baffles me at times......so it's typically discounted which isn't a bad thing.

Hey Greg I'm today's pest :)

What do you think about Public Storage (PSA). The 5 and 10 year is very steady eddy-esque, and they have a 2.89% div yield. And storage is one of those very easy-to-understand industries....everybody is accumulating too much stuff and that will never change. It's one of those human behavior 'habit' stocks like Altria :lol:

You know -- it looks okay... there's a long history of growth... and they just reported a 23% increase in profits for the quarter AND increased their margin. They've doubled the dividend payout since 2007.... and that tells me that the company is "pro" shareholder.

My only quibble is the low 2.89% dividend based on todays price. It's a low dividend -- so you're relying on share price growth for your gain. It's also a relatively expensive stock solely based on per share price. So depending on how much $$ you've got to buy it - you may not be getting very many shares. Remember that the dividend is paid as a Dollar amount PER SHARE... so if you only have 10 shares - you're really not getting much of a payout.

So that's just some things to think about. It's why I own a lot of MO vs Philip Morse (PM) which is twice the share price.


So -- this is NOT a recommendation - that's not what this thread is about - and I'm not the resident stock picker.... I'm just trying to arm you with enough food for thought that you become dangerous all on your own.

PSA is a REIT (Real Estate Investment Trust)... if you compare REITS - there's a bazillion of them and they are all basically real estate plays. I own National Retail Properties (NNN). PSA is into renting storage space - NNN is into renting shopping centers but in the end they're real estate investments.

NNN pays a higher dividend @ 4.68% -- BUT has less share price growth... BUT the share price is far lower... So what I'm saying is -- I like your basic idea (real estate) but just be sure you go out and do a bit of homework to make sure that is the one that's the best bet for YOU.

BTW --- PSA just announced a 14% increase in their dividend to $1.25 per share.... Ya gotta love a company that increases the payout to the shareholders and this company has a stellar track record of doing that!

What that does is -- over time -- covers inflation... and as the payout increases but your cost stays fixed -- that increase becomes really nice!

Greg any thoughts on the new strategy AAPL is potentially going to do.
"IPrefs"

Speaking of that... I just spent the last few hours documenting all my dividend stocks out of my paper "folder" and into Excel.

One of the things im starting to track is my "Yield on Cost". With the 2 of my core holdings increasing their Div % today, started to now track what the YOC is too.

So being the geek I am, I setup a spreadsheet to calculate my YOC and my Dividend payments each time i get one (i have to manually input the payment info, but it carries it over to various forms and adds it up for me so i can see my yearly dividend payouts).

At this point, my overall average YOC is 3.95% at this time. Not great, but not horrible. Its up from 3.88 last year, thanks to the two that announced increases today. It gives me a spot to keep track of my YOC for my 9 core (investing 102) stocks, and my total payout for each year.

I need to find something to offset that ~4% and get it up a bit this year. ;)

The OFFSET is the growth in share price -- which is what gives you TOTAL RETURN. Do not discount this fact. Chasing YIELD only will have you being real upset with yourself and your account when we DO - and yes we will - get a correction. 4% dividend is good --- and coupled with growth -- it should be 9 or 10% a year. HUGE in this low interest rate environment.


Some of my core holdings are already UP 8 and 9% this year. Dude -- that's a whole years "growth" expectation in 6 weeks!! Will it last?? I'd love to think so -- but I also know why there are AVERAGES.... and if I hold on to the 8 or 9% to finish up the year - I'll be a happy man. So that means that at some point we're going to look like yo-yo's.... it can't just keep going up up up. Now that's not saying it can't go up 20% - but then my guess is we don't hold on to all of that. Love to.... but don't spend it. :lol:

I don't have any thoughts about Apple except that I love their products. I have no position in the stock -- too scary for me. Great company. Scary stock.

When EVERYONE is talking about "THE STOCK" it's time to run like hell IMHO.


Like when everyone was dot.bomb.... and everyone was flipping houses.... and everyone I know SAID Apple was going to 1000 and GOLD was going to 2000.... RUN!

Good point. that was in the back of my mind. I was explaining that to my GF last night over dinner, but when i wrote this, i didn't think about that.

The little man on wall street doesn't like me now that I rebalanced my 401k into and handful of diff mutual funds. Those are taking a hit. But he did seem to forget about my Investing 102 stocks, they're doing decent. lol.

And speaking of stock growth and total growth (stock + div), is there a way to calculate that? I'd like to keep track. Or is there a tool/page you use that gives you that basic info?

Edit: after a little further thinking about it.. to calc growth wouldnt you simply take your average purchase price and compare it against the current price? or would it be better to take your purchase cost, compared against the current value? If you do the 2nd option, then it seems you may be able to take your purchase cost and compare it against the current value + dividend payouts to get the total growth? Im not sure if thats right.. its been too long since math class. LOL

Edit 2: i think this explains it: http://stocks.about.com/od/evaluatin...ormualaeva.htm :)

YES -- that explains it.

For those of you with Charles Schwab accounts ---- that like to see how they're doing but can't do all the math.... There's a real easy way for you to see.


Log in to your Schwab account


Under the "Accounts" tab go to PORTFOLIO PERFORMANCE


Once there - it will take a bit to do it's calculations so give it a minute.


Now -- I take my cash in and out of here -- and I DO NOT re-invest my dividends so I CHANGE a setting that you'll find on the far right (Just below "Pinter Friendly" and "Spreadsheet"). Click on CHANGE -- and change the calculator to PERSONAL RATE OF RETURN... I also have this set as my default calculation - because now it calculates cash flow as part of the return (dividends).

From this point you can select what you want to see -- i.e., Year to Date - One Year - QTD (Quarter to date) etc.



So --- My Year to Date is 5.89% (over 11% using the Personal rate of Return calculation page) (obviously since we're in the first quarter this is the same as Quarter to Date). My three year is 62.24%

I'm posting this because I want you guys to see that it's not just all about the dividend --- in other words --- it's about the TOTAL RETURN -- growth plus that magic cash cow called the dividend.

Okay -- HAVE FUN! You might just be surprised about how well you're doing! I hope so!

So now that you're "there" in your PORTFOLIO PERFORMANCE



Note that there are other items you can select:


Returns is where we are currently but there is also "Health" and "Quarterly Portfolio Profile"


But more importantly under the RETURN tab

is

Portfolio Performance -- and Risk & Return -- and Asset Class Performance etc


Play around in here and just to use ASSET CLASS PERFORMANCE --- this tab will show you where you're invested --- and give you benchmarks -- and compares YOUR performance against that benchmark.



My account (this one Schwab account I use for this thread) shows me invested in:

56.9% Large Cap Equity

17.3% Small Cap Equity

19.9% Fixed Income

5.9% Cash (gotta have some cash dude!!)



So just play around with these pages and see that Schwab does a great job doing all this WORK for you.

Thanks Greg! I have played around with most of the tabs, but never the change button. My 401k is with Schwab, and I like reviewing my Personal Rate of Return, but never found it for my other Schwab accounts. Very cool and thanks again!

BTW- I have way too much sitting in cash (20%) and fixed income (45%) right now due to a big sale in November. I have been adding to my holdings every Monday since Nov. Kinda hoping for a pullback so I can back up the truck and put these guys to work. :thankyou: