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Thanks for giving us an honest view of where you lose in such a pie-in-the-sky transaction as having someone build a custom hotrod, Greg. So many on here (Dave, anyone?) seem to have gone through the same rigamarole so many times; maybe it's life telling us that we should only do this with our own fingers, so we'll be the only ones to blame for when stuff (because censorship) doesn't go right. That's my psychosis, I guess, but I've got recent reinforcement for why I just can't pay anyone to do anything . . .

All I did was order a couple of new couches. They were not from Juan's bargain basement or anything. They were from Macy's, who do not allow for customer pickup in my area (this is why we have pickup trucks, people). Sure enough, two jugheads showed up at my house yesterday and delivered me a couch with what looked like a knife hole through the back. One was good, short of the big, greasy fingerprint on a throw pillow. I can deal, but it's really annoying when life keeps proving to me that I will always be happier when I only have myself to blame for screwing things up.:bang:

We can also address the relatively artistic nature (sanity?) of the custom hotrod build(er) in combination with personality types we can reasonably expect to be involved with such a thing, but that's a whole 'nother set of paragraphs for another time . . .

Don't worry Greg and Aaron, I also like to be the guy in the low budget grocery getter that I built in my garage chasing the Vettes down on the track. Or at least being close enough to them to make them wonder WTF is going on? :D

You guys have also both have been successful in other businesses, do you ever wonder if someone with good business sense could be successful building cars for other people? Any time I see a segment or industry where customers struggle to get things done to their satisfaction I wonder if I could do it better?

The initial overhead while building a team of skilled builders with specialized skills seems like the largest obstacle. In fact, it almost always comes down to keeping good employees around.

Awe...Screw it...think I'll just stick to building them myself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSLance (Post 660303)

If you want to wake up every morning hating life and hating cars -- open a hot rod shop.....

The way to do it - is be "set for life" and just have a nice big shop at your house were your buddies come by to play (think Bob's place we went to).

It's why I ALWAYS built this stuff myself..... But for years I had nothing much to do but tinker away the day in the shed fussing with my tools, and my hobby, waiting for the kids to get out of school (I was Mister Mom).

Roy Brizio runs his shop like a business.... cars don't get started until HE is ready to start them - once they start - they have a totally orderly process. His guys have been there for 25+ years - they're good at what they do - they specialize - they're efficient - and I've never once walked in there (say every 6 months) and seen a car sitting in the same spot or the same condition. THERE IS REAL ACTIVE WORK BEING PERFORMED! He orders the parts needed - they're kept pristine.... and there is a finish area when they come back from paint (smart that he does ZERO bodywork or paint)... They sit there on JACKSTANDS -- there's only a couple lifts in the entire shop.... they get wired and trimmed and adjusted etc - and the customer comes and gets it.

Now -- he's also one that understands what he's building - they don't do a whole lot of over the top custom stuff - he's not trying to be Troy or Troy (Trepanier and Ladd).... he's not trying to re-invent the wheel..... he just turns out quality hot rods and you NEVER see a Brizio car for sale - ANYWHERE..... I sold mine by placing ONE phone call. DONE. I wish I had it back, but I'm not going to call and try to buy it back because my buddy (owns several Brizio's) loves it. We've put about 6 miles on the 911 since coming home from Scottsdale.... we have TWO chocolate labs.... we like them to go with us. I'm over it. The pickup will be perfect - I can toss them in the back and off we'll go. I can toss my gun cases in the back (I spend ALL DAY every Saturday at the range these days).....

I have never understood why shops that have 4 guys working in them have 10 projects.... 1 or 2 at most are getting any attention.... the rest sit and collect dust. To me - if the customer doesn't pay IMMEDIATELY upon being invoiced - I'd shove his **** out the door and call him to come get it. They'd be given one week after that it goes on the street.

Do you guys ever wonder how RING BROTHERS manages to have completed, spectacular, cars turned out every SEMA? They're so friggin custom they're sick! These are not cranked out cars -- but they're done - they're done on time... I can't even imagine what the bills are, but they must be staggering. Ditto The Roadster Shop -- year after year - they crank out staggeringly custom cars for SEMA.... you should see that operation! It is run like a business. It's not a hobby shop. Neither of these shops are giving their work away. I've had quotes.... I can't afford them. Yet in the end - it's what you end up spending! And when you get all done they're not "Roadster Shop" or "Trepanier" cars. LOL

The Frisbee '32 -- that was a $220K roadster - mention his name in connection with it - people ask "does it run?" LOL

I know there's lots of shops on here - I'm only mentioning a couple that we all can relate to....

Quote:

Originally Posted by 65_LS1_T56 (Post 660294)

This. This is what has happened lately. It has taken away from a lot of the fun at the events gor sure. It makes sense both financially and competitively, but it certainly has to be less satisfying. There is nothing better in my opinion than beating new(er) vettes and such, with a 50+ year old car. Glad you guys see it like that as well. And thank you for the call Greg, means a lot to me.

Yep ---- if you can't build a car that can run and perform (this IS a PRO TOURING SITE correct?) then you buy a C4/C5....

Funny how that happens - most can't drive worth a crap anyway - so what difference does it make what car they're in. If people would learn to DRIVE and spend some money on that - they'd be farther ahead. You're not going to win with Popp and a few others at the top.... so just go out and drive your stuff and have fun. Get over yourself and your place on the leaderboard. Go hang with your buddies - love looking at your car - love the day.... No the tire guys aren't going to call and give you free stuff.... :fluffy: :fluffy: <------ those are supposed to be sheeples. LOL

[QUOTE=GregWeld;660305]If you want to wake up every morning hating life and hating cars -- open a hot rod shop.....

I actually look forward to every morning and coming into my shop. I usually get here between 5 and 6am. I get in, and I do what ever paper work needs done, and I make sure that the guys have what they need to be rolling for the day. The guys drift in between 7:15 and 7:45 and are up and working by 8, not getting ready to work, but working. There are six of us in the shop and we don't ever have more than five projects. Typically we only have one long term project (meaning 1 - 2 year build). Every project gets worked on everyday unless an issue has arisen that needs customer attention or parts have for some reason not shown up. We do everything except Paint/body and Interior. I tell every customer you can show up anytime without notice. I have nothing to hide here, what I tell you is going on is what going on. I used to be a Mechanical Engineer before I got into this industry full time, and scheduling has always been a part of my life. If we have to do something twice we eat it, not the customer. Nothing is faked into a bill ever. Our billing is very accurate and detailed. We don't charge a daily or weekly fee for your car to be here. We charge 40 dollars per 40 hours for shop consumables. We don't mark up materials, we round parts to the dollar, we don't up charge shipping. If i spend several hours looking for parts (research) I will charge about 20 percent of that because my time does have value.

I don't have an ego to feed, I have a passion to feed. I understand your upset about how you were treated and I have seen it all too often. We get a lot of cars that have been at other shops and really screwed over. We currently have a "coachbuilt" vehicle that the customer had spent over 200 in getting built and we are not using any of it except the drive train and wheels. That was a very very hard discussion to have with the owner. But there was just no way to save the mess that was there. I figured we would loose him, but in turn we have started a great relationship and build process. There are no smoke and mirrors here ever. We all know it cost more to build a car than to buy one. A lot of people enjoy the process from my point of view.

It would be nice to see someone start a Concierge business. Someone that knows this world inside and out, has first hand knowledge of shops and that can help direct future customers to the right place to get their project done. Someone that can assess the customers needs and budget and direct them to a shop that will result in a happy outcome. I recommend other shops all the time and I do a lot of work for other shops and never even talk about it. If they want people to know I did the work then they can give me credit. Again no ego to feed.

Well I guess I have ranted enough. Time to get this day going. I hope you all have a great day.

Thom
SaltWorks Fab
Sarasota Fla.

[QUOTE=GodSpeed;660337]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 660305)

If you want to wake up every morning hating life and hating cars -- open a hot rod shop.....

I actually look forward to every morning and coming into my shop. I usually get here between 5 and 6am. I get in, and I do what ever paper work needs done, and I make sure that the guys have what they need to be rolling for the day. The guys drift in between 7:15 and 7:45 and are up and working by 8, not getting ready to work, but working. There are six of us in the shop and we don't ever have more than five projects. Typically we only have one long term project (meaning 1 - 2 year build). Every project gets worked on everyday unless an issue has arisen that needs customer attention or parts have for some reason not shown up. We do everything except Paint/body and Interior. I tell every customer you can show up anytime without notice. I have nothing to hide here, what I tell you is going on is what going on. I used to be a Mechanical Engineer before I got into this industry full time, and scheduling has always been a part of my life. If we have to do something twice we eat it, not the customer. Nothing is faked into a bill ever. Our billing is very accurate and detailed. We don't charge a daily or weekly fee for your car to be here. We charge 40 dollars per 40 hours for shop consumables. We don't mark up materials, we round parts to the dollar, we don't up charge shipping. If i spend several hours looking for parts (research) I will charge about 20 percent of that because my time does have value.

I don't have an ego to feed, I have a passion to feed. I understand your upset about how you were treated and I have seen it all too often. We get a lot of cars that have been at other shops and really screwed over. We currently have a "coachbuilt" vehicle that the customer had spent over 200 in getting built and we are not using any of it except the drive train and wheels. That was a very very hard discussion to have with the owner. But there was just no way to save the mess that was there. I figured we would loose him, but in turn we have started a great relationship and build process. There are no smoke and mirrors here ever. We all know it cost more to build a car than to buy one. A lot of people enjoy the process from my point of view.

It would be nice to see someone start a Concierge business. Someone that knows this world inside and out, has first hand knowledge of shops and that can help direct future customers to the right place to get their project done. Someone that can assess the customers needs and budget and direct them to a shop that will result in a happy outcome. I recommend other shops all the time and I do a lot of work for other shops and never even talk about it. If they want people to know I did the work then they can give me credit. Again no ego to feed.

Well I guess I have ranted enough. Time to get this day going. I hope you all have a great day.

Thom
SaltWorks Fab
Sarasota Fla.

Good post Thom!

YOU would have to go back and read some of the almost 20,000 posts to understand "me" and statements like "if you want to wake up and hate"...... its a tongue in cheek statement. Hang around awhile and you'll get where I'm coming from. Obviously that's not a factual statement. It is factual when I know who I'm responding to. Many of the people on here are actual friends - not just a bunch of internet keyboard jockeys.

I've stated in here (Lateral G) about a trillion times -- that I'd love to just spend my day sweeping the floors at various shops - in an effort to learn from them and just because I love this stuff so much.

This is not my first goat rodeo.... this is about car number "I've lost count".... and I'm not talking about buying and selling. I'm talking about building and modifying - and most of them have been major redos or builds. The only part of this hobby I can't do personally - upholstery. I've spent the last 45 years (26 of them retired) doing this stuff almost daily. I guess that's why it becomes so disappointing... because it certainly isn't hard to build a decent project. There's no body mods - for the last 20 years all my stuff has gone on new chassis (the days of boxing are long gone).... so many parts that didn't used to be available now days create "catalog cars". Crate motors vs custom built stuff etc.

Anyway -- I'm happy you're happy, and loving running your shop.

[QUOTE=GregWeld;660340][QUOTE=GodSpeed;660337]

Good post Thom!

I've stated in here (Lateral G) about a trillion times -- that I'd love to just spend my day sweeping the floors at various shops - in an effort to learn from them and just because I love this stuff so much.

We actually have a floor washing machine that you are welcome to ride around any time. biggest problem right now....................... finding the floor!!! manufacturing is so busy !!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 660153)

You meant Used and Abused by everyone..... :lol: :lol:

Funny --- a guy (gunsmith) at the range I shoot at (A LOT - LOL) tells me his grandfather had finally given him a '55 Tbird that Grandpa has owned since new..... and that he wanted "to fix it up".

I jumped back 10 feet at this.... and immediately told him "DON'T TOUCH IT!!" That's a $100,000 dollars.... and unless you can write a check for that right now... don't even think about doing anything to it!! And if YOU tear it apart - you'll have a pile of parts in boxes and the car will become nothing but a storage shelf for them.

He replied -- but I just want to get it running and make it a driver.....

Oh here we go...... So I started to run down the list of what that's going to look like after the car has been sitting in a garage for over 30 years....

Every rubber part needs replacing

The gas tank is full of goo

The gas lines are all full of goo

The brake master cylinder is shot

The slave cylinders are all shot

The cylinders in the motor have rust in them by now - and will tear up the ring seal the first time you crank it over...

The carb is full of goo

The hoses -- EVERY ONE OF THEM -- needs to be replaced

The radiator will need to be removed and boiled out

The water pump will need to be replaced

The fuel pump will need rebuilding - replacing

There's probably mice living in the wiring or the heater

Anything that holds fluid - will need to be flushed - or carefully drained and refilled and rotated etc and whatever it is will be a leaker

In other words --- don't even start.

These car projects are all the same.... home built or pro built... it's a HOBBY either way.... many ups and downs... many hours either working on them or working to pay for someone else to work on them. They never go smoothly -- they never cost what you planned and they certainly never cost less than you planned!

I've also found they don't build themselves....you have to get out there and pick up a tool and do something with it. 1500 hours is a LOT of spare time... and that's if you're starting with all brand new parts.... double that if you have to do "lace repair" - or like every project on the planet - you have scope creep.

Do the math. There's 50 weeks of work days - leaving you 100 Saturdays and 100 Sundays - figuring 2 weeks of actual real vacation away from everything including the stupid car. If you don't have anything EVER to do on a weekend - not a single party - not a single kid thing - not a single wedding or birthday or anniversary..... and you worked all day every weekend and had every part you ever needed at your disposal..... you're lucky if you could build a car in 2 years.... and it's more like 4 or 5 YEARS of being pretty productive.

Treat it as what it is ---- an enjoyable HOBBY..... and if you're like me - the minute you're "done" -- I'm bored with it and start dreaming about what else I could have done to it - or what other car I want to build.

Good god we're idiots!!! LOL

"goo"

Have you been hanging out with Kimmie? That's one of her words. LOL

[QUOTE=GregWeld;660340]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GodSpeed (Post 660337)

Good post Thom!

YOU would have to go back and read some of the almost 20,000 posts to understand "me" and statements like "if you want to wake up and hate"...... its a tongue in cheek statement. Hang around awhile and you'll get where I'm coming from. Obviously that's not a factual statement. It is factual when I know who I'm responding to. Many of the people on here are actual friends - not just a bunch of internet keyboard jockeys.

I've stated in here (Lateral G) about a trillion times -- that I'd love to just spend my day sweeping the floors at various shops - in an effort to learn from them and just because I love this stuff so much.

This is not my first goat rodeo.... this is about car number "I've lost count".... and I'm not talking about buying and selling. I'm talking about building and modifying - and most of them have been major redos or builds. The only part of this hobby I can't do personally - upholstery. I've spent the last 45 years (26 of them retired) doing this stuff almost daily. I guess that's why it becomes so disappointing... because it certainly isn't hard to build a decent project. There's no body mods - for the last 20 years all my stuff has gone on new chassis (the days of boxing are long gone).... so many parts that didn't used to be available now days create "catalog cars". Crate motors vs custom built stuff etc.

Anyway -- I'm happy you're happy, and loving running your shop.

"Goat Rodeo" ???

:lol:

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 660340)

I've stated in here (Lateral G) about a trillion times -- that I'd love to just spend my day sweeping the floors at various shops - in an effort to learn from them and just because I love this stuff so much.

With the GoodGuys tour attracting a lot of top builders visiting other builders on the tour, I would love to hear what they observe, good and bad, at other shops. Also if there is much support/camaraderie between the competing businesses...