Originally Posted by Vegas69 (Post 279292)

While I have to say I walk the middle ground I'll sum it up pretty simply. I had folks from three different churches stop by my house this month.(Man, what the hell!) Cars are no different than religion. We all have different beliefs in what makes for an ideal car. Clearly Dane is the guy that loves to race and you won't catch polishing his wheels on Sunday morning. Dave is the guy that takes everything to the extreme. He polishes on his car on Sunday morning but believes in beating on it to his potential. I respect both of you guys but your not on the same page.

Originally Posted by tones2SS (Post 279343)

Great point Todd.:thumbsup:
See, I'd be somewhere in the middle as well. When I get to the stage where I can build/afford my pro-tour beast, it will have all the goodies, DSE suspension, Rushforth's or iForged wheels, great paint and so on. BUT,....there really aren't many tracks or events out here in the Northeast to auto-x. SO, I will build the car the way that I WANT TO BUILD IT and drive it on the street and to car shows and so forth. AND,...if a chance arises that I get to auto-x it, I will and the car will "be ready" for it. (whether I am or not, is a different story! lolllll...) OH,..and look good doing it as well!!! (the car anyways!):thumbsup: :cheers:

Originally Posted by compos mentis (Post 279359)

Pete might be able to make you look good as well Tony. Amazing what some paint and bodywork can do.

:lol:

Originally Posted by rogue (Post 279193)

We all build our cars for our own purposes, whether it be show queen, cruise night car, or track monster. This thread however is about PT cars that are tracked. Everything I've ever read says that anything with a hoop or cage should not be driven on the street. Unless there are rigid bucket seats with proper harnesses used at all times and proper padding on the cage.

Lots of cars on these forums break that general rule of safety. My own included with its half-assed 5 point belt harnesses and lack of hoop at all. A dedicated track car should have rigid buckets, a full cage, fire system, depending on how 'into' the hobby you may be. A certain trans am on this forum is properly setup for track use, and beyond that! :thumbsup:

Any time I see a street car with reclining seats and a hoop/cage I think of all the advice given to me by track instructors. Recipe for serious injury or worse yet death on the street from a minor fender bender. I'm walking the fine line of swapping out my comfy reclinable recaros for some trans am styled vintage rigid buckets and a proper cage or hoop. I'll use the recaros for the Mini.

Of course this is all advice from the safety nazis. We can all take it or leave it with a grain of salt.

I've left it ages ago, but given all my health issues, I'm considering a full cage, halon system and proper buckets. Last thing I need is an accident to cause me even more pain. Dick Guldstrands eyes went wide open when we started discussing what I do with my own car and laptimes, and the first words out of his mouth were "You need a cage."

I'm very close to pulling the trigger to full time track monster thats street legal. 5 point belts, a cage and buckets on the street SUCK, but for that amount of safety on the track its a sacrifice. You just have to properly pad the cage, and actually USE the belts as intended every time you get in the vehicle. No exceptions.

Originally Posted by NOT A TA (Post 279270)

I lurk here a lot reading threads like this and rarely speak up. Danes been way out on a limb by himself lately so I figure nows a good time to chime in. Just may end up wishing wishing I had a fire suit!

During a conversation with Johnny Hunkins while he was shoting my car for PHR back in '05 he recommended I join the LATERAL-G forum. He explained that this is where guys with cars like mine that were used on track would be. You know.....G machines. He was wrong.... Hardly any of the forum members cars were used on track at that time and although there was always talk about getting cars on track and building cars that would eventually be used on track the reality was that hardly anyone had actually driven their cars (at speed) on a full size road race track. Yes there were a couple but very very few and most of those were owned by companies not individuals. Heck, most of the cars owned by forum members didn't even run! So I wondered, "Where's the LATERAL-G content?"

It's several years later now, and there are more cars being used on track but in comparison to the number of members on the forum the percentage of those who actually use their car on full size tracks is still very small. I stopped inviting people from forums to road track days because no one has ever showed up. In the past 6 years there was only one track day I went to where any other PT/G-machine type cars showed up. I put 2 wheels off twice last year and 4 wheels off once, how many members even had their car on a track? Nevermind pushing the limits! Not very many.


I have to applaud people like Bill Howell for getting more people to take their cars out and actually drive them in some type of event. Without the leadership, time, and money invested by people like Bill we wouldn't have the rising popularity of the events geared toward the PT/G-machine crowd. This is a good thing and I've been hoping it'll get some people to step up and bring their cars out to track days. It would be fun to run with a bunch of 60's and 70's style cars instead of the typical modern cars I run with at track days.

If someone here owns a Prius but has never been on a full size track, take the Prius! You'll learn how to stay on "the line" better, and more quickly than with a huge horsepower car. Danes probably right, a Miata with a good driver could spank most of the car/driver forum members on most road tracks. I'll be the first to admit more than a few passed me when I started! (now only occasionally! LOL) If you take the Prius it'll really get you to want to bring your PT/G-machine out there!

You don't NEED big power, or NEED big brakes, or NEED huge rubber, or NEED less weight, or NEED the latest trick suspension, to get out on track. The simple truth is that a stock ordinary car is better than most people are on track until they get some instruction and track time. Got a sporty daily driver? Take the next 500 bucks you were going to spend on your project car and use it to go to a HPDE event weekend at a road track. You'll have a blast and come away a much better driver!

I rented a 4 dr 4 cylinder Cobalt with an automatic and ran it at Road Atlanta one weekend. I learned a lot driving what would be considered a "momentum" car and by the end of the weekend I could drive almost the whole track with the pedal to the floor lifting only 5 times each lap. And yes they do have a speed limiter, it's at 99 MPH! The next time I took my Firebird I was smoother on the track.

This forum along with similar forums seem to be becoming more and more about what "looks" like a car that can perform on track, rather than cars that are actually going to be used on track. There's more chatter about car shows and stance than track days and what tires work best.

Originally Posted by Vegas69 (Post 279292)

While I have to say I walk the middle ground I'll sum it up pretty simply. I had folks from three different churches stop by my house this month.(Man, what the hell!) Cars are no different than religion. We all have different beliefs in what makes for an ideal car. Clearly Dane is the guy that loves to race and you won't catch polishing his wheels on Sunday morning. Dave is the guy that takes everything to the extreme. He polishes on his car on Sunday morning but believes in beating on it to his potential. I respect both of you guys but your not on the same page.

Originally Posted by rogue (Post 279422)

One of these days I need to buy some wax. I don't own any :rofl: