This is a chronic issue with our industry no matter which side of the business you are on. As a builder I try to go direct with the manufacturer whenever possible but to answer the question a few posts back about why everyone doesn't just buy direct is that to get discounted pricing with a wholesaler or manufacturer you need a buy in (anywhere from $5k to $15k for a manufacturer) and then sell a minimum amount of product every year to keep your discounts which for a small shop isn't typically feasible. Next best thing is buying through a wholesaler which will have a smaller buy in and a smaller yearly minimum but it could be 10%-30% difference over buying direct. The advantage to a wholesaler is that you get access to a wider variety of product with your buy in. Typically most shops start with a wholesaler then go direct with a handful of manufacturers that they use the most.

To get back to Mario's original gripe about the lack of professionalism in this industry it is unfortunately ingrained in the culture. Many of these small manufacturers and dealers are small businesses....They may make these bad-ass products that we love but many of them are struggling to survive in this economy just like the shops are. They don't have the capital to invest in more staff, better equipment, etc or they don't for fear of the lean times so they do what they can to keep up. Can you count on both hands how many small manufacturers or dealers/shops that have gone out of business in the last 5-6 years of this recession? The ones that do stay alive are typically burning the candle at both ends trying to hold things together.

Couple that with the fact that much of our industry is talent based... this guy may be the best widget maker in the world but can't figure out how to run Quickbooks to balance his business checkbook or keep track of inventory on hand to build his widgets so he knows when to reorder from his suppliers. How rare is it to find a guy that can make the widget, balance the checkbook, and handle the phone? How many shops have you come across that are booked wall to wall with work but the owner is so busy out in the shop that he never answers the phone? Sounds common sense to hire someone to run the front end of the shop while the talent guy runs the back but it never seems to happen and customer service suffers, then business suffers, then the bank account suffers....

This isn't even taking into account that with the cars we build we often deal with odd-ball equipment. A couple years back I needed 3 FE EFI intake manifolds but they were on back order with Edelbrock who was waiting for enough orders to do a production run. It took 9 months to get those intake manifolds.

15 years ago the only people buying these parts were building racecars and those people understood that if they wanted a part they were either going to have to wait for it or build it themselves. They understood that these racecar parts were loud, stiff, and rattled but in this last decade as these parts have made the transition into street cars the industry has had to evolve as the customers and cars became more sophisticated. Manufacturing processes and technology have allowed these parts to be engineered and mass produced. Materials technology has allowed them to be made better, lighter, and quieter to meet the demands of todays customers. The manufacturers have also had to increase their level of sophistication with technical support, marketing, and customer service in an increasingly competitive marketplace. If a manufacturer is not growing with the industry nowadays they will not last long.... same with a builder.

And everyone on here thought I was the only guy building an FE.:D

Victor intakes are easy to come by now but good luck finding that Mallory TFI distributor you probably used. :rofl:

Don't disagree with anything you said, but it doesn't take any technology, business sense or anything else to NOT LIE to customers. When you don't have it and are not going to have it for x weeks, months, whatever SAY SO! When you take money and say you will do something you don't, that's fraud! If someone places an order and you are up front with the delivery no matter how long and the customer signs up for it, that's fair. I think that is the main issue here. Saying whatever it takes to get an order is dishonest and should not become the accepted practice in this industry.

The reason I asked is that we've seen these "I got screwed by XYZ vendor!" posts a lot over the past few years and it would seem to me that it would hedge everyone's bets to possibly pay a bit more but at least know you'll get your product.

I know there are a few manufacturers out there who don't sell direct to customers, but by and large the places I've dealt with (see parts list on my car) have been more than happy to deal with me on the phone/email.

Every place will have hiccups here and there, but I've found that being cordial and giving people the benefit of the doubt goes a long ways. I've had it happen a few times where I was clearly at fault for breaking a part or installing it wrong and the manufacturers picked up the slack for me (they really didn't have to) and exchanged the part even though it was obviously my blunder.

Then again, I'm also the guy who when building an engine or ordering parts, will make occasional (but try not to be annoying) calls or emails as to inquire the status of my stuff. Always polite of course and never accusing. I've found that 'checking in' every little while seems to keep my name fresh in their minds.

Of course, this goes without saying but all 'inquiries' should be polite, cordial and at least make an attempt to get to know them just as much they get to know you. It never hurts to take 30 seconds and ask how they are doing.

Anyways, my $.02

True...it does not take any technology to not lie to a customer...BUT, it does take some sac. It is human nature to: 1. avoid confrontation [ever ask a 10 year old if he broke something or another?] 2. attempt to please another human.

In addition, our industry is populated by entrepreneurs who are, as a group and to a fault, optimistic that they can truly fulfill the promises that they have made to their customers, their bankers, their employees and their families. It is the hardest thing in the world to say "no". It is also a learned talent. At least in my experience.

These offending vendors are not, as a group, dishonest. They just don't know any better.

Same end result, unfortunately.

I agree with you Bret. I think alot of entrepreneurs should look to your business as a model. I especially agree with you about saying no is a learned talent. I am the Engineering/Manufacturing Manager for an OEM heavy equipment manufacturer. We have a unique business model in that we do not produce anything. We have 100% of our products contract manufactured. It becomes very difficult making commitments to our customers when I have to rely on vendors for everything. Have we missed our commitments in the past, absolutely. But because we are in constant contact with our network of vendors, we communicate any schedule changes to the customer as soon as we know of them. It is rare though. The latest we have ever been is 3 weeks on a 600k piece of equipment that was a 25 week delivery to start with. In our business like yours we do have to say no. We hate it and try to avoid it like the plague, but we do say it when we have to.

I also agree that when this happens to a start up company, it is growing pains and learning curve. When it becomes normal course of business, I believe it turns to dishonesty.

In the end, I am hopeful that the face of this industry continues to improve. With companies like yours that newcomers can look to as a model, i am hopeful. Threads like this are invaluable to consumers and vendors. I hope to enter this industry at some point myself and will try to keep all this information at hand when and if I do. :cheers:

Well said Chad!!!! :cheers:

Keep a eye on the vendor feed back forum very soon!:mad: My hell continues!!!!!!!!!!!!

Definately agree with the above comments... Call me an eternal optimist and although there are always going to be those rotten apples who are going to lie cheat and steal merely for their own gain I believe that most of the aforementioned offenders don't start off with the intent to rip people off. It starts off by them getting a little behind here and there and just like a gambler it evolves into the "one more" complex. "If I get one more order I will just work harder and I will get caught up..." "One more order and I'll get that funding from the bank..." It turns to white lies, and unless something fundamentally changes it can lead honest people down a darker path. I'm not justifying it.. just calling it like I see it and it happens all the time in this business. Once you start getting behind its hard to work your way out of the hole unless you change something foundationally with your business; obviously if the business is slipping behind something is not working. No Government bailouts for this part of the auto business.

I definately agree that there is no room for dishonesty of any sort in any business. If you have to lie about what you are doing... you need to find something else to do.

Yes, I'm a fellow glutton for FE punishment... I do quite a bit of FE work. Mostly blown, mostly EFI. No Mallory used here... had too many finicky issues with them on mostly stock stuff to trust them. I have good luck with MSD even though they aren't perfect either.

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I can't figure out how to properly embed it but the pic below should be a video link...

http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/v...h_DSCN8341.jpg

:faint: