Brian = I never met up with you at SEMA.... that dang show is so "distracting" isn't it? :lol: The texts start flying with "where are you - and meet me heres" that I don't ever seem to get done what I want to!

I'm planning a lunch for the crew at Divers after Thanksgiving.... Are you going to do any tuning on that turbo diesel Cadillac? Last time I was there it was all painted and Nick was wiring it up... the chassis was in paint and looked like it was time to sit the body back on it.

I will be tuning the Caddy and the 53 Chevy Accel DFI too, when they are reddy. That is usually when it is 100% done.

Inglese/FAST EFI
 

This SBC is getting installed my my 65 Corvette Coupe. It is mated to a Tremec 6sp with a final drive of .50.
Take Care - Jerry Clements
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Click on the pics and they will enlarge. Im not sure what Im doing wrong to cause this problem.

Jerry, please keep us posted on this! I am very interested in the Inglese setup for my project.

Does anyone have pics of how they ran the gas lines and wiring harness?

What are you going to control it with?

For an IR even the XFI 2.0 doesn't have some of the calibrations available that will make tuning easier. You might want to look into other systems as well.

And I've been following this post. Jody and others- I think one of the things that gets lost here is that although your applications run good with or without referenced fuel pressure or whatever, maybe they can run better with it. I think that's part of what Brian was driving at

Jmo.

I agree Mark. I just had an issue with his "must have" wording that he would not back down from. We weren't arguing over which way was best. I've just seen it done too many times and if it isn't perfect you sure cannot tell in the driveability of the car.

I will be running the vacuum line from now on. The only reason I didn't was I was told by another well-known efi guy that I could not run the line if the regulator wasn't up close to the rails; the length would cause all kinds of issues. I've since figured out that isn't necessarily true either.

I was thinking the FAST EZ EFI controller. What other systems are available? I live in Australia so we don't see much down here.

The EZ will work, just ask Greg Weld.
But it runs richer in areas than is optimum. To mask drivability/tuning issues the IR's normally like it when you throw more fuel at them.

But with that said, neither the EZ or even the XFI are able to tailor the fuel curve between each stack as related to load and rpm, it's all or nothing.
With the Accel you can trim each cylinder by load and rpm. Think about it, if you have a butterfly imbalance, where will it show up more, at small or large throttle openings?. The answer is small, but if you can only change the balance with one setting you're losing tuneability and throttle response potential throughout the rpm range. I gaurantee you the difference in fueling requirements from idle to wot changes, you can't address that with the EZ or XFI. That's why you need to run them richer than if you had that tuning parameter.

good info Mark. My IR setup was perfectly happy being lean at cruise but really liked a richer idle a/f, no matter how I adjusted the blades. Had a big solid roller too which affected that.

How does an average guy monitor each cylinder individually to take advantage of this feature? I can see that on an engine dyno with headers that have pyro's or a/f bungs at each pipe. I'm thinking most of the guys never get their engines on an engine dyno and do their tuning on a chassis dyno or on the street and wouldn't have that type of exhaust to be able to individually monitor a cylinder. Would an infrared temp gun on the tubes give enough info? I do remember that feature and played with it a little, but I didn't have a real good way to monitor things other than a temp gun. This was a blown small block, not an IR setup but we were chasing a problem.

I have TWO cars with 8 stack EFI.... a pretty nasty little 406 in a heavy '56 Nomad / 700r4 / 2600 rpm stall converter / 3:73 Ford 9".... and a 383 / 5 speed / '32 Ford Roadster...

The 406 uses the Inglese intake manifold with Imagine Injection billet air valves... the 383 uses the all Inglese manifold with their air valves. BOTH cars use FAST EZ EFI and both cars run flawlessly... fire off instantly... cold drivability is "fire it - drop it in gear and drive off".

Given your location - and your statement that there isn't much available or around... provided that your motor is "built" to be EFI friendly (a wide LSA cam - providing good solid vacuum signal) I'd think the EZ EFI would be the right system... simply because it self tunes.

We can argue about how perfect the A/F's are all day long... but I'm LIVING PROOF that if you balance the air valves (using a meter) and you set the basic settings of the EZ EFI correctly (in other words - you actually have to READ and FOLLOW the instructions)... You'll be able to fire it up -- warm it up - drop it in gear and go drive - within 30 minutes - your car will be running great - and the next time you drive it - it will drive better and so on - until the A/F's meet the settings you selected. There are only 3 A/F settings -- Idle - cruise - WOT. There is acceleration fueling that can be changed... but most wouldn't really need that and you'd need a dyno to really see what your changes are doing.

So with the EZ EFI -- it's ONLY going to control fueling. The timing of the engine is standard same as a carb -- in other words -- just a good distributor, curved and set for initial and total timing properly. Frankly TIMING controls the performance of an engine way more so than the "perfect" A/F ratio.

BTW -- I don't sell this stuff - I have no vested interest in any of it - tuning or products. I'm just a long time EFI user that has real world actual use "opinions".

Caveat -- EZ EFI is not for radical cams etc. So do your homework/research on what is a good engine combo for EFI before choosing your ECU. If you need to run radical profiles -- then you're going to need a tunable system -- and a real good tuner and lots of dyno time.

The Holley Dominator system has individual fuel trim, you will need to tune on a dyno with 8 o2's to perfectly set them, or use 8 EGT's, we use an IR thermometer to see if any cylinders are leaner or richer, and adjust there. IR systems are tricky and usually not worth the hassle, we did 2 over the last few years, although they look great!

Really? That's a pretty big statement - pretty "broad"....

Mine run and work perfectly as do my buddies (4 other 8 stack systems of various ECU's and motor combos).

mine did too. With a .650 lift [email protected] solid roller you could let the clutch out in first gear at 900 rpm idle speed and even without touching the throttle it was smooth as silk. No jumping back and forth in gear at that low of an engine speed. And there's pretty much nothing that looks as cool as an IR setup.

I agree, I did a 427 windsor Ford, made 621 hp with 9.0:1 compression and an 8 stack, had 535lbft of torque at 3500rpm.

Being able to adjust timing helps a bunch. But I don't agree that you need a dyno, it's nice but not absolutely necessary imo.
And I know Greg had a bad experience but I do cals via the internet all the time, it makes a difference if you know what you're doing.

Back when I first starting doing this -- there was no internet!

:willy: :rofl:


I agree that you can tune via emailing files.

They can be made to run well, but the drivability can be a bit fussy. Plumbing in a vacuum port to each cylinder is important to run a IAC, and also equal out the tip in throttle. 8 blades can be tough to sync at all throttle positions. We run tripple Solex carbs on our GT-2 240z, but that car always sees at least 1/2 throttle at all times!

Inglese's new(er) cast manifold for Small Block Chevys has a huge cast in plenum in the valley area... so vacuum is "plumbing free"... and the large volume smoothes out the pulses.

I run NO IAC on either of my motors... no need for it.

Did you do that 427 with the EZ EFI or the XFI?

With all do respect, I'll bet everyone that had their car tuned either on a dyno or via the internet and had problems had a tuner that said "No Problem, I know what I'm doing". Then they were told their cam didn't match their heads or the distributor wasn't right. That's the one I like, the cam doesn't match the heads, so your car won't move under it's own power. Yet it drove into the dyno session. See my point? The problem is, how many hundreds and thousands of dollars does a guy have to spend to get the guy that DOES know what he is doing? I'm sure you are excellent at what you do, do you offer a guarantee? That was the reason we went with the EZ-EFI. It made 614hp and 544ft# on an LS415. We will see about drivability. However, it comes recommended from Wegner Automotive, and their resume is also very impressive. Are there limitations to it, yes. Will it do what we want, yes. I know you can not endorse self learning EFI systems as that would take money out of your pocket, but for the people that read these forums and never get involved in the discussions, I think it is necessary to be objective and give all the pros and cons. For what it's worth, if I do get into a build where we need more complex EFI control I would feel comfortable working with you from what I have read here. :cheers:

Chad -- Glad to see someone finally gets the point I've been trying to make... that for MANY folks -- these new self tuning systems work just "fine". They're not for every stinking motor ever built -- but with some planning with the engine builder - the motor can be built to be EFI friendly... and if you're not looking for every last one tenth of one percent horse power these systems fire up - starting running - and in a matter of 50 miles of driving they're tuned and ready to go. Then they keep getting better and better.

The sooner the "tuners/installers" out there embrace these - the sooner the stories become POSITIVE EXPERIENCES with EFI... rather than the HORROR STORIES I hear every time I go somewhere...

But, people have to learn the ins and outs of EFI vs just slapping it on any old motor and hoping for the best... But that's a whole different discussion. :cheers:

Very informative post Herr Veld. :thumbsup:

Neither one, Accel Gen 7.
That's why I mentioned what I did. The XFI can't tailor the individual cylinder trim by load/rpm. It's an all or nothing calibration with the XFI and doesn't exist at all on the EZ.

Compos, thank you for the comment, I think:thumbsup:

Yes there are too many mediocre tuners out there, with every make of system. I know I've run across too many.
And yes I do gaurantee my tuning. But I ask all the right questions about the application BEFORE I sell anybody anything. And I'm not concerned about not making any money on the self tuning stuff, it's not my primary source of income anyway. If you look closely at the software there are better and average systems around.

But the nice thing about some of the better systems out there is that they will help an otherwise ill advised combination to some degree, i.e. another 427 Ford I did with a 249/[email protected] on a 110 hyd roller cam. It came to me with a Mass AirFlo system, self tuning right? Ran like crap, even after 3 chip changes and sending the ECM back twice. After swapping to a non self learning system, it idles at 750 rpm all day and runs great.

Last time I checked, factory cars self tune after initial calibration.

That is what most of the sales / tuner guys DON'T do.... they just sell or install and think they can figure it all out... SO KUDOS TO YOU MARK!

:cheers:

Thanks Greg, I try.

http://i884.photobucket.com/albums/a...a/28dad826.jpg

I was trying to think of a "clean" option to run my fuel lines.

Is it a bad idea to mount the regulator on the firewall between the distributer and coolant lines. Then run the fuel lines down behind the motor and on top of the trans. The lines would then run down the center of the car like the factory line is ran.