Well -- DRT themselves say this ammo WILL penetrate walls etc just the same as a lead slug. Apparently it only fragments when hitting "organic material".

Back to the drawing board!

My zombie gun..umm I mean self defense gun is a short barrel shotgun with a 10 round mag..
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/6059/img6224e.jpg

WTF!?!?! No chainsaw grip??


:lol:

Everybody "needs" one of these....


http://lonestararms.com/home



Holy crap Batman!


:lol:

The R&R is for 3 gun matches and the Tromix is for home defense. The Tromix is a class 3 NFA weapon though..
http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/2275/img6223hq.jpg

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/6059/img6224e.t
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/6059/img6224e.jpg

Heres the R&R Saiga in action..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FziECY1mSaY

Got a few myself. I like to carry my .40 cal, Glock 23 everywhere. It's my conceal favorite.
Top left...Taurus Millenum .45 cal (which I hate)
Top Right...Glock 23 .40 cal
Center...Mossberg 12 gauge pistol grip
Bottom...Sig Sauer P250 Fullsize .45 Two Tone
http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/...g/DSCF0607.jpg
Just picked up my .50 cal Desert Eagle this past Wednesday. Right along with the pistol grip 12 gauge, this will be the ultimate home intruder stopper. LOL!!
http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/...g/IMG_0392.jpg

One of my buddies has a S&W 50 cal.... I had to use my engine hoist to pick it up! He says when he shoots it -- it's "three bucks - three bucks - three bucks...."

:D :thumbsup:

I've shot the 8.75" barreled S&W 500 at night, pretty impressive cylinder & muzzle flash producer. Recoil was less than expected but definitely a hand-cannon. Ballistics wise I'd probably go with a 460 or 480. Any of those big-bores are not something you want to take to the range and shoot a couple hundred rounds with.....unless you're very well medicated. :D

Too f*cking right fella , iam trying to read this thread from behind the desk at the moment . Pete

In the UK are you allowed to even own a handgun??

Can you get a Concealed Carry permit??

Here's something NOBODY saw on the NATIONAL NEWS regarding the shooting at the Portland area mall.

No surprised that was suppressed. He showed good judgement and was there when the police were not. Maybe he did have an impact.

When seconds count the cops are only minute away.......that's just the way it is.

I not really sure about that but i think you can get a permit to own a gun , its just something we don't have in general use over here . Here if you own a gun your either in a gun club , need it for your job or a drug dealer , and only a few specialist police units have guns . We do have a bit of a knife problem with the youngsters but generally the laws pretty tight here on any kind of weapon and even to say that you have a gun can get you arrested . I know you guys like your firearms but we find them unnerving and view people with a bit of suspicion for wanting one . Your allowed to carry them and we aren't and to be honest i feel safer with things that way . Pete

I am glad it's not that way here. :yes:

That's where the big problem is for me. I'm not sure how the statistics would play out for the number of drug dealers per capita in the UK vs. US but there are way too many in our community for me to be comfortable without effective defense measures.

If everyone would play by the rules it would be easy........:thumbsup:

I dont know either but its more of a public perception about drug use and gun crime that its on every street corner when it isn't . Generally druggies shoot druggies and i cannot recalled an incident of a drug addict entering a strangers house and shooting them , its more likely to be a family member . We have had a couple of cases of homeowners shooting unarmed burglers and have gone to prison for it , the public have been on the side of the homeowner . We are told that using reasonable force is ok in dealing with burglars but shooting one in the back is not , the public view is slightly more right wing but not much . The murder rate over here is about 1 per 100,000 and most of them are carried out by those known to the victim ,like a spouse . friend or family member . Gun killings here are less than 1 per 1,000,000 and how that compare's to the US i don't know but with those kind of figures arming myself isn't foremost in my mind . Drugs are the real problem here as with anywhere nowadays just look at Mexico , remove drugs and crime could be halved .But i do find guns creepy , just a euro liberal i guess . Pete

Meth is a big industry in our county and the number of burglaries/robberies associated with supporting the habit is increasing. Crashing residences and robbing at gun point happens too often, especially in the surrounding rural areas where there is literally no law enforcement protection. In the last six to nine months there have been two incidences that the perp's encountered armed residents and were shot............ in the last few months I haven't heard of one break-in. When the perps realize the odds of encountering armed home owners in a region is common the move to an area that offers less resistance before they'll kick the habit that drives the crimes.

The counting jail is releasing inmates lodged on serious felony charges at an alarming rate due to lack of funding which compounds the safety situation.

Perceptions are based on local conditions and personal experiences. I have worked closely with law enforcement over the last 20+ years and know the realities of our area. Reasonable personal safety in our area cannot be supplied by local law enforcement, the numbers per capita are some of the lowest in the US.

Although I'm excited to finally get it because it took nearly 5 months for it to come in as it was back ordered from Magnum, the manufacturer. Magnum says they cannot produce them fast enough as the keep flying off the shelves. I haven't even shot it yet. I can find any cheap ammo for a .50 cal. The ammo is so gosh darn expensive, I can't justify shooting it up and wasting it at the range. But, I guess I shouldn't be complaining for a gun that was nearly $2000, huh? By the way, I love the S&W 500. That long barrel looks reminds me of Dirty Harry.

When guys talk about owning those big hand cannons, I always chuckle and think about the movie Johnny Dangerously. "This goes through armor, the victim, the wall, a tree outside..." "It's an 88 magnum..." (I won't quote the rest since it is HIGHLY inappropriate in respect to current events).



Jeff-

Always loved that movie!!:cheers:

Magnum Research Lone Eagle pistol in 444 Marlin dress. Just got one of these, should be "ok" for defense!! LOL!! Hadn't had the bells to shoot it yet tho!!:guns:

I've just now put 600 rounds (Independent brand ball ammo) thru my new Kimber .45 (Super Carry Custom 5") .... and I also bought a couple WILSON COMBAT mags to use along with my Kimber mags... I can tell the difference just loading the mags!

Anyway -- it's taken the 500 to 600 rounds to have the Kimber jam free and running like it should. I'd bought 1000 rounds and stacked 'em up in the safe so I could count what was left to know where I was at. Kimber says 500 rounds for "break in" and they know what they're talking about.

I clean it after every session at the range... and I'm very thorough... and I'm using some glide slide I got from Brian Enos. It's VERY GOOD STUFF... no jams since I started using it and the slide FEELS smoother.

I think I must have a Wilson shown here....


Well -- I can't get the link to work! But it's their CQB Lightrail Lightweight Compact.

http://www.wilsoncombat.com/new/default.asp


so when I'm at the range tomorrow I'll ask them to give me a price. The Seattle Police Range I belong to has super smokin' prices so it will be interesting to see what it's going to run.

I have Wilson mags for my plane Jane Colt government model and really prefer them over the standard mags.

But for a small 1911 I like the idea of an Ed Brown Kobra carry

http://www.edbrown.com/kobracarry.htm

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/l...psc048f30b.jpg

Ed Brown makes some nice machinery... but I specifically want a light rail and the smaller (compact) with laser grips for the trailer "camping" nights.

There are few critical elements in a 1911 reliably cycling ammunition:
1) Barrel ramp contours
2) Magazine lip contours and dimensions
3) Ammunition overall length and bullet shape (ball, HP, semi-wad-cutter, wad-cutter)
4) Spring rate vs powder charge
5) Operator's grip pressure

Yes all good points and 5 may be the most important.

I love my 1911 but for all out drop in the mud reliability I have one of these. And yes it has a light rail.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/w...layErrorView_Y

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/l...ps269c24b4.jpg

A good friend and S&W collector has an old S&W Model 29 "Mountain Gun" in .45 LC and that gun is special at the range with Federal .45 acp Gold Medal Match ammo. Soft shooting tack-driver! Similar to this one:

http://www.gunblast.com/images/SW-25...n/MVC-015F.jpg

I like revolvers but if it's hitting the fan in close quarters I'll take my 1911's.

FWIW - Here's my heavy concealed carry gun I've had for 15+ years, it's been completely tuned.
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-v...-vFvSC4g-M.jpg

Another long time toy that's pretty effective out to 100yds loaded with 240 grn JHP and 24 grns of 2400.
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-J...-JhLfCxR-M.jpg

I believe that is the same K frame that the TR is based on.

Everyone needs a wheel gun.

I agree and Smith has a couple real nice revolvers on the market.

I'd seriously consider this for an everyday carry gun:
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/w...layErrorView_Y

Note the weight, front shorts pocket carry shouldn't be an issue and the ammo is lite. I'd rather get shot with .380 than a 22 mag.

The reason I'd consider it is less than impressive performance with my Kahr.40 using hot loads on a porcupine and raccoon.

I put the .45 in the gun safe and now have the 12 gauge loaded up with 00 buck for home defense. Found a nifty place to conceal it too. :D
http://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/gun...t-home-defense
http://www.chuckhawks.com/home_defense_shotgun_ammo.htm

The effectiveness of a shotgun is hard to argue.

The layout of our home puts the kids at the end of the main/central 30' hallway so over-penetration is an issue. We have heavy plaster walls which helps but it's not stopping buckshot. I'm guessing the wife would probably frown upon one of them getting wounded by over-penetrating buckshot.

I tested T, 1, 2, 4, 6, 7 & 8 shot some in steel, buffered copper, and 3" and decided on 2-3/4" magnum #6 lead. It's pretty vicious at 5-7 yards and reduces the penetration factor. FWIW - The Remington load I use kicks like a mad mule. If penetration wasn't an issue #1 Buck would be my preference.

.45/.410

Taurus Public Defender POlymer?

I'm sort of partial to my Sub 2000 .40 S&W. Takes Glock magazines.

http://www.survival-spot.com/surviva...kel_su2000.jpg

http://cdn2.armslist.com/sites/armsl...00_9mm_640.jpg

Under penetration is a bigger issue in my opinion. If the bad guy can still operate and kill you, your kids are a gonner whether lead flys through the walls or not. I agree that 00 is to heavy for kids in the house, but 6 shot is for pheasant. With a good shot I may add.

Cop buddies tell me -- average firefight distance -- 21 FEET.....


Ever see the videos of 2 or 3 people in a firefight at close range and NOBODY gets shot.... Lots of lead flying around - close range... leads going somewhere!


My buddy asked me why the .45? I just said - because If I hit an intruder he IS going to be hurt regardless of where I hit him...That would be my intention. Separately - shoot a .45 at someone - THEY WILL BE SCARED... so even if I miss... they may stop what they're doing. Mission accomplished.

John and Meryl have been showing me lots of techniques for accuracy... THAT to me is the most important part of all of this -- be accurate under pressure - under duress.... Know your weapon. Practice practice practice.

I have to say that's where I feel the shotgun really shines for me. I've been hunting with a shotgun since about 10 years old. I feel very comfortable with it in my hands. In fact, my home defense shotgun is my old standby Remington 1100 that I bought with my own money on my 12th birthday. I've cycled 1000's of rounds through it. Startled, out car windows, off balance, you name it.... At 21 feet, done deal...:guns:

Greg it's nice to see that you are learning and starting to think more and more. As I have said in previous posts, this is a mental game. Twenty one feet isn't much and even a fat, middle aged guy like me can cover that distance in the blink of an eye. Think you (or anyone) can deploy their firearm before a bad guy would be on you? How do you get the distance you need to get to your firearm and use it?

Like you, I love my 1911 .45! It seems I can't miss the "X" when using mine at the range. HOWEVER.....As you mentioned a gun fight can take place at very close range and no one get's shot. This brings to mind the old saying that the loudest sound in a gun fight is the "click" when the hammer falls on an empty gun. Capacity VS stopping power is a big part of the equation. (and there is a lot that goes into the dynamics of a gun fight) I carry Wilson Combat Mags, so 8 rounds, with one in the chamber. Nine rounds of Speer Gold Dot is a lot of stopping power. Compare that to my SIG P226 (9mm) with the same type of ammo, but now 15 to 20 rounds (depending on which magazine). Which one would give you a better chance of hitting your target or a better chance at a successful out come? In my mind it's a balancing act and one needs the best bang for the buck so to speak.

I'd like to reinforce what you said about practice, practice, practice and knowing your weapon. Additionally, I highly recommend going through part of the mental game and rehearsing (if only in your mind) different situations that you may be forced to use your firearm. What if and how are the two biggest questions. Doesn't matter if you are using a shotgun, handgun or rifle. Truth is you can never be prepared enough for this type of situation.

The good news for ME -- is that I have access and have and continue to use the training simulator. I can tell you that NONE of you have any friggin' clue how fast someone can "close" 21 feet... and what your reaction time is. And when presented with shoot no shoot scenarios - you'll have even a better idea of just how weak your supposed "skills" are.

I'm not saying this to challenge anyone -- I'm saying this because it's not only true - but it's SHOCKINGLY true!

In the simulators - I've been sliced... shot... tackled... charged by unarmed little drunk women... Dude?!?! Do you shoot a drunk 5'2" 110 pound woman because she's charging you?? Does she have a knife? That last guy that was just breaking into a car did! And he sliced my throat! I shot him but he still sliced me up!

It's these eye opening experiences which have made me decide not to just buy a gun (the easy part) -- but to practice - to talk to professionals to learn - and to also acknowledge just how friggin' dangerous any seemingly harmless situation can go down. I'm taking the In-Sight tactical training course... and have taken a couple other local training courses. Not only are they kinda fun... it's just nice to be able to trust yourself... learn something... and frankly - when I do something - I like to be "decent" at it.

I thought of something else (while driving to Portland today) us "mere mortals" don't think about -- that I've been told now repeatedly by my cop friends... is finding cover. I think most of us have this idea that we're going to wake up in the middle of the night by someone making noises in, or attempting to get in, our houses. So half awake you get up - grab your weapon of choice and go to see what the matter (clatter?) is all about... that is when you're confronted with the element of surprise.

The trained would seek concealment/cover while they investigate the unknown..... while we'd (the untrained) just walk down the hall/stairs... and head for where we thought we heard the noise come from.

The training simulator has all these life size scenarios playing on the screen - AND they can shoot you with pellets! If you're not covered/concealed - prepare to get shot! You took cover but your knee exposed? Prepare to have a bruise there! :bitchslap:

It's that element of surprise - coupled with the total exposure that is going to be your worst nightmare. At least that's what I've been shown.