Good luck with the Flywheel and Clutch. I hope that the fact you got the engine at such a big discount dosen't have anything to do with a potential crank balance problem.:question:

Anyway, just as a reminder I re-tapped several of those case holes, if not all of them, because they had SAE bolts instead of the metric. And maybe two of them seamed on the loose side because of the prior damage. I purchased all new bolts for you also....So, who else had that trans out after me? You could just re-tap the stripped ones to the next size up and/or thread pitch.

Man, sounds like you just can't get a break with this thing.:faint:

I never drain the transmission except when I mean to change fluid. Instead I use one of these, which you can get in almost any auto parts store:

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/4...g1130small.jpg

They seal really well. I needed to put the tape on mine to fill in the gap between the normal size rear seal and the larger seal in the Viper T56 .

The bolt situation on these cars is really a pain. The M10-1.5 metric bolts are almost the same size and thread as a 3/8-16 SAE bolt. If you have both sitting around, you really need to pay attention.

I wouldn't just re-tap the aluminum hole... I'd go with a HeliCoil if you have decent access to it.

My old rule is do it right the first time -- and then you don't have to worry about it forever and ever.

Sorry you're having these issues!

Yeah I remember that Brett. Those were the bolts from the trans to the bell housing and in fact I think they are all ok. Have torqued those bolts myself and BOS did with no issues. This new present is from the bell housing to the motor. I don't think you removed that right? I was also assuming BOS didn't remove it though I guess I can ask them.

You aren't the first to raise that question on the motor Brett. I just have a seriously hard time believing the previous owner knew something was wrong. The motor was way too pristine and the dust way too thick lol. I honestly don't think it ever came out of the crate before I took it out. There is a whole list of things I went through that convinced me this motor was never fired after leaving Mast. So if something is wrong with the balance job on the motor I'm convinced it shipped that way from Mast.

That's a cool gizmo. Live and learn!! I was reminded of using a spare yoke trick but never seen anything made for it. I will be looking for one before I reinstall for sure.

Thanks Greg. I've got until at least Tuesday before the clutch and flywheel will be ready. At first I had a bit of "sticker shock" at the turnaround time but then realized I've got PLENTY of other stuff to work on lol! I plan on spending some of that time checking all the threads on the motor as well as pulling the pan so I can check the oil tube o-ring.

HeliCoil ? the only ones Im familiar with are the spriral type, Which is actually just putting a wound up piece of wire in the hole to make up the difference in the thread gap. Am I thinking of something different? because those work like shiat.

FYI, my advise to re-tap actually means drill larger hole and... well re-tap to the next size. It's basically the same as a new hole, just bigger. I don't recommend re-tapping to the next size by just the means of putting a larger tap in the stripped hole.

Anyway, got any pictures of the HeliCoil system you are talking about?

Chad, just went back and looked at some of my pictures of your car. I think you may be right, I did not remove the bellhousing to start cutting the tunnel. I forgot you have an OEM aluminum bellhousing, and I remember re-tapping aluminum. :thumbsup:

Yeah -- HeliCoil is a "thread repair".... not a complete drill and re tap.

I've had great success with the several that I've used and keep them "in stock" in the shed for those occasions when they need to be used. Never once had an issue with them.

The problem for most guys ----- he's drilling into the block not just running a drill through a bellhousing hole.... and he won't have a bottoming tap... and access might be an issue etc.

In aluminum helicoils inserted correctly are as strong as threads with no helicoils , they are designed for holes that will see repeated dis assembly, you can buy a helicoil repair kit for any size hole from mcmaster Carr delivered next day!

Mini update from work over the weekend.

I got the oil pan off the motor. Decided it was easier to take the hood off and hoist the motor up a few inches than drop the rack. However, my confidence in the cheap/easy fix is shaken. The oil pump pick up tube o-ring looked to be in perfect shape and installed correctly. Just to be on the safe side I picked up two new o-rings from the dealer on the way to work this morning.

GM makes 3 different sized o-rings. My online reading has shown that all of the oil pumps are the same size but that the pick up tube itself has different sizes and you match the o-ring to the pick up.

Stolen from a 2009 Ls1tech.com post:
The green I believe is even thicker than the red design but can't find those specs right now.

My Autokraft pan came with the blue o-ring but I bought both a blue and red o-ring today at the dealer. The fit with the blue o-ring that came with my pan just doesn't feel that snug when playing around with it this weekend. So tonight I will try both the red and blue o-ring. My online research showed some folks and shops/dealers using the red o-ring even in fbody/corvette applications with better success rates.

Copied and saved in my LS Info file. Thanks.

So, no posts because fabulous progress :yes:; or no posts because in the abyss of depression?

just going back to the thread thing, we used these at the dealership for thread repair damaged stuff on Vipers. Easy to use and work like a charm.

http://www.timesert.com/

Hang in there Chad!!!

Ha ha. More of the latter sadly. I did get the flywheel and PP combo back from the shop. Flywheel was off 12 grams and PP 7 grams so that could cause some vibration. Ran the motor with just the rebalanced flywheel and it does feel a bit better but not 100% what I was/am expecting. I need to get everything back together to really tell.

The oil o-ring looked perfect. I tried the larger red o-ring and it was a no go. I did notice that the bracket off the pick up tube to the main stud was not perfectly aligned so I drilled it out. Maybe that will have been the difference.


Still fighting a few gremlins. I'm having trouble getting the transmission back in with the exhaust there. I also, managed to somehow ruin my brand new braided power steering pressure hose. Hoping I can figure something out other than a new $200 kit.

Will post a real update once it is back together.

Any update on this Chad? This is one of my favorite threads...Hope all is back together and well..:thumbsup:

sorry to ask again but what size rims are you running 18x11 or 18x12 and what about the front?

I will be posting an update later today. I need to at least take a pic to make it interesting ha ha.

I'm currently running 18x11 in the rear with a 315 tire. Fronts I'm planning for 18x9 with a 275 though for now its an 18x8 with a 245 until I fix the clearance for the 18x9 with 275...

Car's looking great Chad! You'll be on the road in no time :cheers:

mine are ordered. 18x11 and 18x9.5. ill let you know what needs to be done to put a 18x9.5 on the front. 9.5 is perfect for a 275 tire

I just gotta say..... Loved it. Mucho power and pulled strong even with just 1/8th to 1/2 throttle roll on to 4,500 rpms.

I can't even imagine what a full 1/4th throttle to a full WOT roll-on would feel like. I was just being easy on this thing and it felt goooood.

Damn, I'm reminded once again why my.... well only 400 hp at the flywheel is just not enough!

Thanks Chad for stopping by and letting me work on your project again.

Glad to hear you are working on it bro! Looking forward to having all of our cars at the RTTC in March---keeping fingers crossed that it will actually happen.

D

Thanks Brett & Doug. And Brett, thanks for continuing to clean up my own and other shops mistakes lol. Also, thanks for letting me in on some of the top secret Fab53 skunkworks stuff. Very very cool.

Yeah I've been working on this thing. Hit a major road block in reassembly after dropping the trans and oil pan. I had to replace the power steering hose and it took FOREVER to get the parts. On the plus side I got rid of the shiny braided stainless hoses and replaced with black braided pressure and black push on return/cooler lines. XRP stuff.

Vibration issue is much much better now. There is still some vibration at 2k rpms, more than I'd like, but nothing like before. So you can't trust the brand new RAM and LS7 clutch to be balanced.

Oil pressure issue... I'm sad to report it still FUBAR. New oil ring didn't do a damn thing. bybpassed the ECU oil pressure and ran a new sending unit directly to my autometer gauge and the read the same. Its either somehow still a pickup problem or a main bearing problem I guess.

Speedometer... I can't get my damn speedo to work. I've checked the wires half a dozen times with the ohm meter, replaced the VSS, rewired it both ways (2 wire VSS), checked the voltage at the speedo signal post and confirmed with autometer that it is supposedly in spec. Anyone in socal have a spare electronic speedo I can try?

In liu of a pic to make this post interesting here is a quick vid of what the car sounds like with the 3" Magnaflow exhaust (tail pipes all the way back). I really like this system! I took the car on the freeway and zero drone! I'm now putting some breakin miles on the car & motor waiting for an appointment to have TCI massage a few things.

oil pressure problem
 

It happens every now and them to LS motors, but the cam bearing will walk out and uncover the oil hole. This caused my oil pressure to drop to 5lbs at idle and 15lbs max. My rear cam bearing walked back. I pulled the motor and check all the bearings and they were fine, replaced oil pump and o-ring, still the same problem. Pulled the rear cover and my cam bearing was hanging out the back. Checked the rest and it was only the one. Put and new bearing in and fixed my problem.

May not be your issue, but something to check.

Also
 

There is also a dumbell looking piece that goes behind the rear cover, if it is left out it will do the same thing.

Well after almost a year I have something like an update...

I shipped the motor back to Mast Motorsports. They inspected it and said it still looked brand new inside and the only thing they didn't like was the oil pick up tube height from the pan. Mast said too tall at close to 1" and according to Champ should it should be about 3/8".

Despite the pick up tube height issue they ran it on their dyno under 70 load cycles for 1.5 hours with and without and oil cooler with both a mechanical and the ECU oil pressure sensor and pressure never dropped below 35 psi at idle and 60+ at 3.5k RPM. With oil cooler the oil temps were 170-180 and without oil cooler they used a temp gun showing 230* (dyno temp gauge uses the cooler)

So I'm totally lost. I also tried a mechanical gauge and verified the low oil pressure not to mention the same ECU they are using is what I used and it showed the low oil pressure too.

Mast is pretty convinced that the motor is fine but is open to any suggestion I have that they should of tried on the Dyno that they didn't but I can't think of anything. I also can't think of a plausible explanation for why they get good oil pressure and I didn't.

Anyone have any ideas?

Clogged oil cooler/line? Only variable I can think of between the two setups. Glad to hear the engine is healthy at least...

Chad, what are you using to measure the oil pressure?

If your relying on your guage, and have used more that one guage, i've seen guage defects, in other words, same guage used but manufactoring defects in design or production giving you a false read. Also, having just done an LS conversion in my 70, the computer does alot of weird stuff....but iirc, you had a mechanical read with low op?

been waitin for an update from you, love your car, Mike

No way I'd run an oil pick up 1" off the bottom of the pan....Way too high!


What fitting sizes and hose sizes are you running because that could be a FLOW issue...

Regardless Chad this is at least some positive news that the motor is in healthy shape. That's progress at least. Thinking positive for you.

So are they shipping the motor back to you now or in a holding pattern?

I didn't have an oil cooler installed in the car so it's not that.

Mike, I used the ECU with its own sending unit and a proven autometer gauge and both read the same. Besides reading the same they both read a huge pressure drop as the engine oil reached operating temp n

Yeah I agree 1" is too high. I measured the pick up back when exploring the problem and don't recall it being so far off from the recommended 3/8". No oil cooler so don't think tht is impeding the flow. Also I tried a different pan and pick up that was shipped on the motor and had the same symptoms.

Mast will ship it back but gave me the weekend to think about it in case there is anything else I could think for them to check. It doesn't make sense to me. I can't think of anything that explains this.

As I understand it, you have no external oil system plumbing, but Mast plumbed in an oil cooler on the dyno. How did they run the engine without the oil cooler - an external cutoff with the oil cooler plumbing still attached to the engine, or did they uninstall the oil cooler plumbing and run the engine they way you had it in the car? If they used an external cutoff to take the oil cooler out of the loop, I'd ask them to run it on the dyno exactly as you had it in the car.

A few other thoughts:

Did Mast run the engine using the installed sensors for their oil pressure readings?

Did they use your ECM or a similar ECM?

Did they do anything about the oil pickup, even a remove and replace?

Did they change the oil?

I will have to ask but they did mention connecting the manual oil pressure sensor to the port I created in the oil block off plate at the oil filter adapter location for my oil temp sensor.

Yes, they ran using the oil pressure sending unit behind the intake that I shipped them the motor back with. The also ran a mechanical gauge to verify the sending unit.

They requested I send the ECU back with the motor so I assumed they used my ECU but I will ask.

I'm not clear on if they modified the pick up but they did remove it to both inspect the o ring (which they said looked find and installed correctly) as well as to pull the caps on the mains.

Yes they changed the oil using rotella 15-40 which happens to be exactly what I used on my last oil change (one of their recommended break in oils). Though I did verify they used the existing oil filter I shipped the motor with.

Thanks. Will let you know if I hear back on the plumbing and ECU questions.

Any updates Chad?

Are those the GS3 forgelines on your car?

Looking great btw!!

Progress has been veeeerrrry slow. Its the classic 3 steps forward 2 steps back.

Mast has continued to be unresponsive and uncooperative. I've been slowly piecing together an oil cooler kit and then I'm not going to worry about the oil pressure.

I had a high RPM shifting issue with the stock 4th gen GM clutch hydraulics and LS7 clutch. Plus the Pomona Valley Customs install caused the master to leak from day 1. I finally finished modifying the tick master cylinder to work. Tested the car today and high RPM shifting is FIXED!

I've made enough progress that I can finally get the car over to Sal at TCI and get this thing truly road worthy.

They are the DS3 Forgelines.

Chad, this is great to hear. Look forward to reading future posts.

x2. This has been a real slog for you. It's good to hear that there may be a track day in your near future.

Chad I know it is frustrating that the the progress is very slow, however at least you are figuring out the problems and sorting them out accordingly. I am on the same boat as you are.

I remember you had an issue with your alignment and the front wheels were sitting too close towards the back of the fender. I am having the sMe problem so just wondering if you have sorted out this issue with caster adjustment and was the caster that ended up with?

Roger this!

Thanks guys.

This weekend felt good. Its always good when the car becomes driveable again!

Are you running the TCI setup with wider than 245 front tires? I believe they have since updated their design to eliminate the problem I had. I'm currently running my old 245 front tires and the setup up works perfectly with 5* of caster. Its the mixing of 5*+ and a 275 front tire that I started having problems. A solution for which has been back burnered until now.