Hey Mark, just curious the reason for using the Caddi fan and shroud instead of the Mark VIII fan I've heard so much about. Thanks Shawn

Looks like they make a nice radiator, Ill have to keep them in mind for future projects. Also nice that they are right here in Michigan.:thumbsup:

I have a DeWitts radiator on my TA and always recommended them to customers for their Corvettes. Great product and company. :thumbsup:

I'm wondering how available Mark VIII fans are now-a-days. That car hasn't been in production in a long time. I wonder how a C6 fan would compare? We should probably start a different thread so this doesn't get lost. It would be good to compile info on different factory fans especially since they are using Delta controllers now instead of own/off switches.

The Mark VIII fan is still a great part but it is a brushed motor and 1990s technology two speed fan. Not sure it’s flow rate but its power requirements on high speed is 25 amps or it’s a 300 W fan. The SRX fan is a brushless PWM (Pulse Width Modulated) fan that is rated at 850W (70 amps at full power). But, it is PWM so it only runs as hard as it needs to based on three inputs to the ECM – Engine Coolant Temp, A/C head pressure and Inlet Air Temp. So just cruising around the fan is very quiet only running as needed. The SRX fan is the biggest most powerful fan in production on a GM vehicle. (Don’t go buy one unless you can PWM it!) A couple manufacturers are working on a controller for it. Also it is huge so it is a very special application to use it. If you are not making over 700 HP and attempting to road race it don’t mess with it.

The other benefit to the large fan and shroud is I get a lot more face area and I can thin my heat exchangers up a bit. This engine rad had a thinner core but 20% more face area than Mayhem. I also uncovered the top 25% of the radiator to help cooling on the first pass of the double pass cooler. With a double pass radiator you can package the engine oil cooler and the other coolers in the driver’s side end tank. The C&R engine oil cooler is HUGE. A 7 lbs stainless steel deal. The guys at C&R are the real deal and helped me size the cooler for my application. They could have built my whole radiator but the Dewitt guys are in MI and can custom build cores. I like to drive over to a shop and work hands on. I’m very happy how it turned out.

Dewitt also made a custom core intercooler radiator to nest in front of the engine radiator. Because Dewitt custom made the cores the cores are the exact same width. Nested in front of the intercooler is Vintage Airs larger condensers. Again more face area to help reduce pressure drop.

With the Anvil lower valance all opened up I’m mounting the A/C and the intercooler low to pick up that air flow. I will also duct all the air though the coolers with close out.

Mark

[QUOTE= I wonder how a C6 fan would compare? We should probably start a different thread so this doesn't get lost. It would be good to compile info on different factory fans especially since they are using Delta controllers now instead of own/off switches.[/QUOTE]

Red Devil started with a 400W fan Corvette fan and it would not keep up. The SRX is 850 W and has a lot more power. When I swapped fans on Red Devil the temps were more under control.

Mark

Great source for thermostatically controlled oil bypass:

http://www.improvedracing.com/oil-co...ine-p-209.html

http://www.improvedracing.com/oil-co...gine-p-33.html

If cannot package (due to headers, frame, no LS engine...), can use this:

http://www.improvedracing.com/oil-th...stat-p-55.html

Having oil-to-water heat exchanger also helps warm up the oil after cold start, but still recommend having t-stat to control flow until desired temps are reached.

Nice feature on all these type bypasses is they never block flow to cooler, just open a 'bypass' to allow oil to return to engine prior to reaching temp set point. This allows some flow to always occur through cooler, so by time temp point reached and bypass is closed, not hitting engine with a slug of cold oil.

Dave

Since this discussion is already going here, does anyone have any thoughts on this. http://www.frsport.com/Greddy-124011...t_p_12814.html

Remote filter with built in thermostat, seems like it could solve some plumbing/packaging issues.

From the description is sounds like it's just a thermostat and not a bypass. So as Dave mentioned, you'll hit the engine with the cold oil that was in the cooler when the thermostat opens. Maybe I'm reading it wrong though.

Here's what a couple people I know are using and C&R says it should work good to help control oil temps with the bypass valve.

http://www.crracing.com/custom-built...r-bypass-valve

Do you feel that the fan power is needed for cooling on the road course ? I always kind of thought that 85+% of the cooling was done at speed and the fan was mostly for < 40 mph. I assume you overheating concerns aren't so much at idle since you keep mentioning the road course and HP.

Any thoughts on that ? IOW, at your average road course speeds do you feel that the fan is still doing significant work ?

With a 5 inch thick cooling stack the high powered fan is a key part of the cooling package.

Mark

Mark - have a few questions regarding this design

1. On the left side with the three integrated coolers in the crossover tank, are there just lines running inside, or are there fins with a line curving through them like the heat exchanger on a refrigerator buried in there?

2. You mention getting an oil cooler that is stainless steel - is there a particular reason that SS was chosen as the material v. aluminum? I would think conduction across and convection through an aluminum part would be better, certainly conduction as SS is a poor thermal conductor.

TIA.

End tank heat exchangers (oil) is as shown in this link
http://www.crracing.com/custom-built...heat-exchanger

Other coolers are similar for power steering and trans.

Plate type is much better than tube-and-fin heat exchangers with respect to pressure drop and heat transfer.

One reason for stainless is for strength to withstand 100 PSIG oil pressure without resorting to thick wall sections - which would be required for aluminum.

Dave

thanks Dave for the link - those plate coolers are pretty cool and it makes sense putting those in the tank and thanks for the note on SS v. aluminum v. pressure.

5/8" 6061 .035 wall aluminum tube is good to over 1000 psi. Thick walls are not required for aluminum tube for engine cooling. In fact, aluminum is a better choice because it coefficient of heat transfer is much higher than SS.

Power steering with its 1500 psi requirements is a different story... that's where the thick walls are required and steel or stainless is the better choice.

Yeah, but the PS cooler typically runs on the return side anyways, so AL should be fine there, too.

Good point. SS is only required on the high pressure side of the pump, and that's usually hose anyway to allow engine movement.

That is a very nice cooling setup.

In our application, max power/component life was the goal, so we intentionally separated the block cooling from component cooling. We would cool everything independently with the goal of not introducing more heat into the block coolant so we could use way less water pump speed to do the same job..... Free power. One of the advantages (among many), was the tendency to avoid runaway coolant temps. Once the engine got above it's ideal temp there would be a "saturation" problem where everything overheated when we relied on engine coolant for everything.

Obviously we went through some details during the engine build to maximize power with lighter oil. Like I said earlier, the oil temps were designed to stay at 190°, and the coolant temp was 230°(yes,that was intentional).

I am curious about the "cold oil" statements....Have any of you guys had some sort of problem/experience with oil not heating once you adjusted the weight? I had heard guys say it, but had always written it off as "magazine theory", much like the 75% I/E flow theory. I honestly never ran into that condition, and really thought we had carried oil cooling to the most extreme level. Keeping in mind that we used piston squirters, so our oil may have came to temp quicker than some :headscratch:

This is where I was going with it regarding oil cooling but let it go :D I have twin, large, off-road coolers on my race car, both are aluminum, pretty standard "radiators". Haven't had a problem in 6 years of beating the hell out of my car with a dry sump system (I limit my dry sump to 65 psi).

I finished my hood bonding the hood vents into it. All raw exposed carbon fiber.

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps74baa270.jpg


http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/q...psc7252fac.jpg

I had the vents laid up to match the "V" pattern.

Mark

Very nice Mark. :thumbsup:

Pure Awesomeness!

Oh my gooooooooodness!! A tru thing of beauty.:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

That is a must have for any 1st. gen owner.:G-Dub: :G-Dub: :thumbsup:

:idea: Hmmmm... a hint that it will remain in raw carbon perhaps?:headscratch:
:popcorn2:

Exceptional! Good job Mark! :thumbsup:

I have an oil over-cooing condition for street duty. Even with a Mocal 202* thermostat the oil does well to get up to the water temp (160*). On cold days the needle usually does not budge off the lowest reading of 140*.

If the carbon is left "nude", do the uv's breakdown the resins over time? Or does clear coating it reflect or absorb them? Curious...mike

Wow! really like the vents :thumbsup:

Kewl!!!!..................

mark, ive been paying alot of attention to your builds with the ls9s, im building a 66 nova with a lsa so alot of your info crosses over pretty well. one thing ive been looking to find out is how big of a reservoir you run for the supercharger coolant? i havent found anything on it and i figure you would be the guy to ask. thank you for sharing your wealth of knowledge with us, your builds are amazing to watch!

Wow, reading this thread is like taking a course in hi-performance cooling 101. I love this sight, learn something new every time. Ok, enough teasing, lets see a rendering already!

Hey Mark, I think you are going to have to write another book, after this one!

But are you going to use it ? I noticed you cut the frame allready and with concept one its not needed?

Yes I did use it on Mayhem and plan to use it on XV. They say you can use it with DSE mounts. Maybe with DSE base LS mounts that has the engine farther forward. With DSE LS7 engine mounts the A/C crashes into the sub frame. So for a few hours work we set the engine back 3/4 of an inch. Give them a call and see which DSE mounts it works with. I need the space so I have my engine back as far as it will go.

On the reservoir I’ve done it a couple ways. One is for a fill point and a air trap. To make your life easier make the fill point the highest point in the engine bay. If you can make it so any trapped air accumulates there. On Mayhem I did a fill/ reservoir/ air water separator. I made a 1 gallon tank that feed the intercooler pump. It was a tall tank that also was the fill point and had space at the top to be a air accumulation point. It worked great. A reservoir (or extra coolant) just adds capacitance to the system. If you have space it helps keep the temps more stable.

Mark

I quick note on how I modified the Anvil mirrors. You need to use the internals from a 2nd Gen Camaro mirrors. I don't like the cable operated drivers side mirror so I make my own mount using a stud ball from McMaster Carr and make a few small parts.

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps8a39fc81.jpg

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps60694645.jpg

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps9a8edec0.jpg

I also had to make mount to bond to the mirrors to mount the mirrors to the doors.

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps9041351f.jpg

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/q...psdbad7eed.jpg

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps827569fc.jpg

Looks Awesome!!

Very nice.I love McMaster-Carr.They have everything to build a cool P-T car but DSE product's.:thumbsup:

Pretty sure there's a market to have these bit mass produced Mark! I'd love to eliminate the cable on my driver's side mirror! Tight work! :thumbsup:

Another awesome build Mark!!!!! Definitely subscribing!!!