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In other words: Dear Sieg, YOU SUCK. Signed, Charley Lillard |
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In the racing world, everybody picks up nick names. One buddy of mine is named "Hatrack" because when he was a rookie on Bud Moore's Cup team, Bud told him ... in front of God & everyone ... that he needed to use his head for more than a hatrack. :sieg: P.S. Hatrack rose to the level of being a NASCAR Busch series crew chief, winning car builder, etc. But he still goes by Hatrack to this day. Dave (Flash68) Gordon got a new nickname last weekend ... Cheeseball ... because Greg brought this OMG huge jar of cheeseballs to the track (must have been the size of a beer keg) ... and Dave couldn't stop eating them. :poke: Dave's probably hoping that one doesn't stick to him like the fake cheese coloring did to his fingers. But typically nicknames stick until a better one comes along. Of course when Cheeseball, Mike & I were up watching cars on track, I pointed out drivers braking so much they were almost "parking" their cars going into the Crow's Nest corner. I explained how I knew they were "parking" their cars ... because I saw the Sonic waitress rolling out on her skates to take their order. :lmao: Using that analogy, we'd need to name Greg "Drive Thru" because he was flying through the Crow's Nest. But I'm sure a situation will arise that leads to better one. :thumbsup: So Lance, if I was creating your nickname from the last video I watched, it would be either "sawdust" or "lumberjack." :superhack: :cheers: |
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I like yours better than "The Tasmanian Devil" that Charley started calling me after my first few "over rotations".... |
So impressed what you bring to the table Ron. :thumbsup:
At SEMA, some off-shore 'interests' may try to clone you. :guns: lol |
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lol... I would have never noticed that action myself and no veteran that has ridden with me has ever mentioned it either, and I'm certain I've "sawed" on the wheel since the very beginning. I won't be able to NOT think about that the next time I'm out on the course. Thanks... |
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That's true. Damn true. :ohsnap: |
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LOL ... Ok. I'll generalize what I observed, although I don't know what session that was. In general ... * Your lines are good. * You were pretty smooth, although I can't see the steering wheel in the video. * You're using 97% of the track * Your braking was as good as could be done with the brakes not balanced. I occasionally heard brake hop. In the first lap ... You were turning into the corner too early starting with 6 ... up through 10. In the 2nd & 3rd lap you started turning in later (better) in some but not all of 6-10. After that, your turn-in points were too early in 6-10. You're going to hate this ... but Charley's lines through 6-10 are perfect. He is keeping the car out wider on entry ... turning later & harder ... apexing later ... and coming off straighter on the exits. That is what you need to do in 6-10: * Stay out to the outside edge of the track longer * Turn in later & harder * Apex later * Lessen the amount of turning needed on exits (straighten out the exits) Also, you need to turn into turn 1 a bit later & apex a bit later. :confused59: Currently, the brakes are not allowing to go deep without locking up. I think when the brakes allow you to brake later ... all of this will be easier to accomplish. Your entry into 14 is awesome. You need to use more track between 14-15 and get out wider ... all the way wide ... before going into 15 ... to set up more speed coming onto the straight. Lastly, how you're getting through the Crow's Nest is inspiring. This is turn 5 for those of you not familiar with the track. This is the toughest corner for most drivers. As I joked earlier, Cheeseball, Mike & I were watching most drivers "park" their cars into that corner. So, don't change a thing ... as most these guys need to learn from you how to "Drive-Thru" that corner. :thumbsup: :cheers: |
Funny because I noticed Charley's line as well and he flat spanked me in that section! Well.... really on the whole track -- but I really noticed how much speed he carried 6 thru 10....
I have difficulty with late apex's --- it just seems wrong to me. I will have to work on those! It seems to me that LATE apex's require a bigger turn-in..... and that always puckers me -- because I think I should be smooth and turn LESS.... yet - as you point out -- turning in later smoothes out the exit. I get it... but I don't get it.... |
Charlie gapped you bad out of 14........I should make him a "He Sucks" decal for his rear view mirror!
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I'm going to really miss you at Sonoma..... |
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Just in case ... I'll answer it seriously. Typically ... as in 8-9 times out of 10 ... The tighter the corner is, the faster strategy is keep the car out wide longer, go deep, brake later, turn later, turn more (quicker) and get more (60-70%) of the turning done before mid corner, apex later ... and do less turning (30-40%) on exit ... which straightens out the exit to a degree, adding traction for quicker throttle roll on & acceleration. The larger radius, faster speed, more sweeping design the corner is, the less this strategy applies. What typically works better in big radius, fast corners is to be wide on entry, split the turning 50/50 between the first half & second half, run a low, middle apex & wide exit out to the edge of the track. The key is to understand these concepts ... apply them both to different degrees ... and see what's faster. There are exceptions for many reasons ... but the most common reason an optimum line on paper doesn't work on track ... is the track surface itself. In the real world ... bumps, surface transitions, irregular surfaces, banking/camber and even where tire rubber gets laid down ... all play a role. Another exception is the set-up of the car. I don't think I can count as high as the many different suspension combinations that can be run ... that affect what the car "likes" and therefore what lines work best. Set-ups with higher roll angles are more edgy ... and therefore more sensitive to specific lines & driver smoothness. Flatter set-ups are more forgiving and versatile, typically able to run more different lines on the track. I have a great racing buddy ... that was a terror on track and could win from the back ... say one time, "You know it's funny. We spend all practice day running the "perfect line" ... then come race day ... when they throw the green linen ... we drive everywhere on the track but the perfect line ... to pass cars. Only the leader can run the perfect line the whole race ... and then only if they're not under attack." This is one of many reasons I prefer flatter running suspension set-ups. Because in racing, if you're passing cars, you gotta go where they're not. |
It was somewhat a suggestion, the question mark meant I was hoping you'd answer.......and you did in typical A+ fashion. :thumbsup:
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Ron, Sieg, Glassman, Greg...thank you all for sharing the weekend adventures! The pictures and videos are cool but the description on lines and braking, what needs improvement and professional feedback is awesome!
:thumbsup: Dan P.s. I got dibs on the old worn out insufficient brakes coming off the Mustang....just sayin |
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http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-q...q3mSDZz-XL.jpg I'm thinking about having a pair bronzed for him to hang from the mirror of BMF v2.2. |
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Anything I take off of it is yours.... Seriously. Just don't hold your breath 'cause we won't be making major changes until AFTER the August Sonoma event. |
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:thumbsup: |
Sieg I hear ya on the good times at the track, Bonneville has been my "track time" for quite awhile. I'm new at this turning and braking thing (obviously) and have had a blast at the local auto-x, SEMA and the USCA Laguna event a few months ago, all good people!
Greg I appreciate the offer and will take you up on it! Nows the time to start thinking about that LS motor you've always wanted!! :whistling: :cheering: :brix: Dan |
It's like Phil Jackson coaching little league.
It would be interesting to see Ron set up a super low budget car and compete against the cream of the crop around here. Focus on getting as close to 100% out of the car and driver. |
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You crack me up and your comment is spot on!! I thought about this A LOT -- that I would be completely wasting his time... I was afraid he <Ron> was going to turn my low budget track time <sitting on my ass after driving a bit> into a full on race team weekend! But he settled right into just having a good time - with great info and management tossed in for good measure. The great management and info was subtle - useful - helpful - brilliant and it turned our weekend into the best track driving weekend in the UNIVERSE... (thanks again AL!) |
I bet Ron is enjoying it just as much. I can imagine that helping a pro driver with a set up race car is a game of fractions and a lack of appreciation. No pressure to win, huge gains, and a fun spirit has to be a breath of fresh air.
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Bonneville huh? We need to talk. |
Damn, it's not what you think....more of a father son thing with my dad. We set some personal goals and have had a blast. I used to tell people we've got the fastest Studebaker powered Studebaker.....in Seattle!
As long as you're prepared its one of the best places on earth. Imagine hearing a top fuel motor run WOT for 5 miles.....ya, it's cool! :thumbsup: Dan |
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It's a bucket list item for me. I've no aspiration to the big meet, but the "regular dude" meets where you can run a street car intrest me. |
nothing like salt in your crack!
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Ron - Here's the last session, first 15 minutes was short shifting to avoid being flagged so I was attempting to stay on the throttle a little longer, brake a little deeper, and utilize more track when traffic allowed. 2:18-2:20's were the results. The last few laps were a little more aggressive......then the battery died. I'm certain those laps were in the 2:06-2:07 range. :whistling:
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So you suddenly found that the rev limiter is like 2000 rpm's higher than where you've been driving it? I had to run some carb cleaner in it when I got home to clear the carbon buildup out.... |
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What I feared most next to answering your "what corner did you run out of talent" question and hearing about it for 600 miles was the jerks waving this flag at me: http://www.wheelsofitaly.com/wiki/im...nge_Circle.png :D |
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Sure ... you want to be fast on the perfect line. But more important is you need a car that will drive well on most any line. We even saw this in SCCA Formula Fords. It is a 4 class group running, with FF cars all typically up front. In a short time you're coming up on slower cars to lap ... with fast competitors on your tail. You can't wait for the "perfect passing opportunity." To win, you gotta take unconventional lines ... and you need a car/suspension set-up that will do it. So believe or not, we're on a high travel/low roll set-up in FF. Of course high travel is relative. Our front springs are half the rate of the rest of the field and the sway bar is on full stiff. This makes the car turn better & drive well in a wider range of lines. Where our competitors' cars were typically soft on the bar & stiff on the front springs. Their higher roll angle (again relative to other FFs) makes the cars more edgy. It can be fast, but not as forgiving. You need to run the perfect line & be super smooth with high roll angles. |
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The second half of that was looking pretty good. I thought we had you at a 2:13 best in the last session ... yes? |
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I'm going to put a stopwatch on the video just for fun. Have I mentioned that car is an absolute riot to drive! :excited: :excited: The amount of grip leaves you pondering how much talent you left on your pit table. :sieg: :D Edit: 2:13-2:14 is what you told me. Most laps were typically 2:15-2:20. Still haven't found that miracle lap....... :D |
[on.soapbox]
"Running out of talent" Sieg not directed at you at all but I personally hate that phrase when describing driver/on track issues issues. If one were to describe a heroic effort at a best lap or race win and didn't quite get there, that'd be technically correct IMO. OTOH, if you're not driving at the edge, you're not tying hard enough. Why would anyone describe that as running out of talent?? No one here has ever gone off track? Is that running out of talent? Sheet, I hit the cones on the local go kart track. Now that's talent! We're all amatuers here last I checked. If someone is a better driver than another and makes a joke because someone 'ran out of talent' than that's just assinine. F'n superiority complex and hanging out with the wrong crowd I'd say, cause that's not who most of us here are. Lastly, if describing 'that guy' on the track (not you Sieg), than I think it's probably the 'proper' use of the phrase. :guns: Been meaning to say this for a long time. JMHO...back to our regularly scheduled programming. [/off.soapbox] |
When you're attempting to keep up with faster drivers or riders as in my motorcycle past, no matter if it's recreational or organized racing, I feel it is very accurate in describing the fact that you were driving or riding over your head in an attempt to keep pace with someone you knew was faster.......and in that case I absolutely perceive it as running out of talent and on bikes it hurts, sometimes real bad! :D
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The 2:06 I did was on the Michelin Super Sports. The last time I was there I was running 2:03's with my Camaro on the Super Sports. I am running about 8-9 10ths of my comfort level. I really want to push it a bit more next time. I will also try the Falken's next time. Brian |
It appears "running out of talent" has become an idiom within the PT community. It's figurative meaning is different than it's literal meaning.
For some, not all, the Figurative meaning is meant as an insult to someone's driving skills. If you've seen it used this way Bad Ron, then I understand why you don't care for it's use. Now if Sieg wants to describe himself as "running out of talent" certainly no harm no foul. Self deprecation is a good way to ease the tension when you feel uncomfortable about something. Of course it doesn't make sense literally in the context it was used because Sieg never had any talent to begin with; so he couldn't have run out. But figuratively we knew what he meant. :popcorn2: |
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