Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 557151)

I've been saying for a very long time - but nobody listens to me..... Have one of the top drivers run your car thru 3 times.... That time is what you strive for if you do absolutely NOTHING to the car.... just fix the driver. When you get near their time -- now you start to tweak the car with some pro input.

Obviously this is a big picture look/statement. But if the car doesn't change and a good driver rips off 5 or 6 seconds faster than you're running... then there is 5 or 6 seconds in your driving that needs "work" if you do nothing to the car. The car might be a total piece of crap -- doesn't matter -- driving IT properly for the way it's set up is worth 5 or 6 seconds.

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 557152)

The power steering issue I'd be looking at -- belt slippage.... or air entrapment...

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 557151)

#1 question.

Did you have fun? Who gives a sh!t about the rest of it. You learn - you try - sometimes you cry... at the end of the day if you can't remember what you did except that it was a blast... PERFECTION.

Originally Posted by Ron in SoCal (Post 557087)

All in all a great day. Probably the second most fun thing you can do in your car! :D

Originally Posted by Matt.A (Post 557158)

It wasn't fun or easy to drive. It had understeer on corner entry, mid corner, on exit and in a straight line :lol: seriously, if you weren't conscious of unwinding the wheel, the car would plow through the straights with the wheel turned until a dab of brakes or a little too much throttle made it snap.

Originally Posted by Flash68 (Post 557166)

Sounds like Ron built the perfect pro touring car based on proven recipes. :lmao:

:mock:

Originally Posted by Matt.A (Post 557158)

All in all, I think Ron should be pretty proud. Other than the steering issue, there weren't any other mechanical issues. It wasn't fun or easy to drive. It had understeer on corner entry, mid corner, on exit and in a straight line :lol: seriously, if you weren't conscious of unwinding the wheel, the car would plow through the straights with the wheel turned until a dab of brakes or a little too much throttle made it snap. Ron worked on driving around the cars weaknesses and did really well out there, especially for his first autocross!

Originally Posted by Ron in SoCal (Post 557087)

So I was yapping with Matt on the phone Saturday night and he asked if I wanted to join him at Fontana for the Hotchkis NMCA AutoX. There's so much to do on the car before I start running on the track I turned him down and hung up a few minutes later.

I thought about that for about two minutes and dialed him back and said I'll seeya there! What could go wrong? :lol:

We met up at about 8:am and set up. The PS steering assist was still very erratic, along with being notchy and slow to respond so we jacked up the car, unbolted the cooler and pulled a bunch of parts out of the way to get it to lay sideways and zip tied it to the core support and sub. We then yanked out 5 degrees of steering stops and called it good.

Sidebar - Fontana was rocking today. Exotic cars in one section, sports cars running the big track, karts on another and drag racing plus our AutoX. Pure awesome. The NMCA racer crowd is loaded with very cool people and the Hotchkis hosts couldn't be more accommodating.

Anyway, we finished wrenching about the time the drivers meeting started. Then they launched the run groups. Matt was a co-driver for a few sessions in a different run group and we tried to tune as we went.

http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps98c2330f.jpg

The course was pretty technical for the first 3/4 with a slalom and chicago box right before the finish line. I found the car to be very touchy on the throttle and real tight. I had spoken to Ron Sutton the night before and he gave me a few tips and a shock tuning guide. Then right after lunch Ron gave me a call for some refinement tips. Thanks Ron, you're the man!

As far as results, I learned a bunch today. First, AutoX is a tough sport, Second, I suck at it (four DNFs?). Third, Matt is very good! Matt's third run in both my and his car put him in third place for most if not the whole day (two diff classes). Matt sacrificed his track improvement runs to help with my car. If I didn't say it enough, thanks again Matt! :cheers: Also, the car and driver have a long way to go but it'll get there. I ended up taking about four seconds off my time during the day and about two seconds behind Matt (35.8 vs, 37.6), which is a mile in AutoX. Oh, and I see the merits of a quicker rack and 15" steering wheel.



All in all a great day. Probably the second most fun thing you can do in your car! :D

Originally Posted by Matt.A (Post 557158)

I'm wondering if there is some air that just doesn't want to get out. Or, its possible that the pump isn't properly matched to the rack. The DSE racks like to see 1400psi pressures at (I believe) around 3.2 gallons per minute. Having the flow rating, but not the pressure might be responsible for the irregularity.

All in all, I think Ron should be pretty proud. Other than the steering issue, there weren't any other mechanical issues. It wasn't fun or easy to drive. It had understeer on corner entry, mid corner, on exit and in a straight line :lol: seriously, if you weren't conscious of unwinding the wheel, the car would plow through the straights with the wheel turned until a dab of brakes or a little too much throttle made it snap. Ron worked on driving around the cars weaknesses and did really well out there, especially for his first autocross!

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 557170)

Matt -- You may be on to something there with the flow and pressure. I've seen plenty of guys running GM pumps with Ford racks and then complain that they're steering is too light... well DOH! A simple orifice change and it's bada bing bada boom!


Generally just raising the front off the ground - open the cap on the reservoir - and running the rack lock to lock a few times is adequate bleeding... but with extra lines -- and coolers... you'd have to look for a "high" loop where maybe the air is trapped IDK.

Originally Posted by ironworks (Post 557270)

I tried to look at your pictures to see how long the pressure hose might be but after going back 10 pages and not finding any actual pictures of the car or engine I gave up.

Originally Posted by Flash68 (Post 557166)

Sounds like Ron built the perfect pro touring car based on proven recipes. :lmao:

:mock:

Originally Posted by FETorino (Post 557168)

Yep 335/285 stagger hard at work. Form over function.



Sounds like Ron did just fine.:trophy-1302:

Fix the steering issue and get some seat time in the thing. Then new rear inner hoops and a 315 tire will fix you right up.:mock:

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 557170)

Matt -- You may be on to something there with the flow and pressure. I've seen plenty of guys running GM pumps with Ford racks and then complain that they're steering is too light... well DOH! A simple orifice change and it's bada bing bada boom!


Generally just raising the front off the ground - open the cap on the reservoir - and running the rack lock to lock a few times is adequate bleeding... but with extra lines -- and coolers... you'd have to look for a "high" loop where maybe the air is trapped IDK.


I have power steering on the Muttstang -- and Charley doesn't on his... he's always worn out at the end of the day and mentions "me" having PS and him not. I think there's larger issues at work but WTF we're friends and I just accept his whining for what it is. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Originally Posted by ironworks (Post 557270)

I experienced a similar problem on the DSE rack on the Chevelle we just finished.

How long is the pressure hose from the pump to the rack? Make it as long as you can. What happens is that it's a rotary pump which is not constant displacement so the longer hose helps the small pressure surges that the pump creates to be come smoothed out in that longer hose. COMPRENDE?????

I was blown away at what that did to our power steering system just by making the pressure hose like 30" long if memory serves me correct.

I tried to look at your pictures to see how long the pressure hose might be but after going back 10 pages and not finding any actual pictures of the car or engine I gave up.

Originally Posted by Track Junky (Post 557234)

Very cool Ron. Looks like you have graduated from the jack stand army. Welcome aboard. :thumbsup:

Now get ready for the sleepless nights trying to figure out how to improve car and driver :headspin:

Originally Posted by waynieZ (Post 557242)

That's awesome Ron! Glad to hear you had a good time.

Originally Posted by DaleTx (Post 557247)

Great to see you’re out there enjoying the car! The autocross video was good, but I’m looking forward to some high speed stuff to hear the 427 wound up :yes:

The car looks awesome.

Originally Posted by cterry69 (Post 557251)

Hey Ron it was nice to meet you and figure out where I had seen your car before. lol.
Congrats on the cars maiden voyage at the track and your first time auto crossing. Once you get the car all dialed in, you will really enjoy auto crossing in it. Your car turned out great.

Originally Posted by 69x22 (Post 557255)

Cool!!!

Originally Posted by Flash68 (Post 557265)

Joking aside for just a few minutes, it really is refreshing and long awaited to see Big Bad Ron post a video putting his 69 through the paces. Wish I coulda been there.

It's just the beginning. :cheers:

Originally Posted by Greg from Aus (Post 557282)

Great to see Ron, Now get it all sorted so I can pick your brains.

Originally Posted by efs69 (Post 557341)

Good to see you got the car out and are putting it through its paces. I can relate to the driving part but that will come. In regards to the steering could there be some debris in the pump? I would take the valve out and flush the system. With new stuff there is a possibility of some casting fragments getting loose and mucking it all up.

Originally Posted by tones2SS (Post 557348)

So awesome Ron. Glad to hear the car is running well and that you're enjoying it.
Keep it going bro! :thumbsup:

Originally Posted by Ron in SoCal (Post 557660)

Thanks for the suggestions gentlemen. Here's my plan - first I'll verify that Wegner sent me the correct flow rate pump for my DSE rack. I have a GM pump on the shelf (go figure) that is supposed to be matched to the rack so I can swap it out to test. I'll also remount my cooler lower. I've heard others with the same problems with this rack and I'd rather not put a three foot hose in the engine compartment (great suggestion though Rodger). If there's any lingering issues or notchy-ness I'm replacing the rack and getting a matching pump. I've also got a valve for the pump that'll match the AGR so one way or another this will get fixed.

Appreciate the input for sure :cheers:

Originally Posted by ironworks (Post 557678)

You crack me up Ron. I did everything you said. Changed 3 pumps, the 3rd being a bad ass 600 dollar KRC pump. Changed reservoir changed to GM fluid and the only thing that fixed it was the hose. Oh and I spent a stupid amount of time researching. But if you don't want to clutter up your engine compartment cool.


I have some pumps and reservoirs in the for sale section I will make you a deal on.

Originally Posted by Ron in SoCal (Post 557679)

Glad I finally got you to bust a smile Rodg, lol. At what point did you dump the rack? :D

Serious question though, how the heck did you figure out a longer hose might be the fix?

:cheers:

Originally Posted by Ron in SoCal (Post 557660)

Thanks for the suggestions gentlemen. Here's my plan - first I'll verify that Wegner sent me the correct flow rate pump for my DSE rack. I have a GM pump on the shelf (go figure) that is supposed to be matched to the rack so I can swap it out to test. I'll also remount my cooler lower. I've heard others with the same problems with this rack and I'd rather not put a three foot hose in the engine compartment (great suggestion though Rodger). If there's any lingering issues or notchy-ness I'm replacing the rack and getting a matching pump. I've also got a valve for the pump that'll match the AGR so one way or another this will get fixed.

Appreciate the input for sure :cheers:

Originally Posted by Vegas69 (Post 557777)

Ron, Do it the hard, expensive way.:mock:

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 557785)

Was there ever any doubt?

Originally Posted by Rybar (Post 561639)

Ron, congrats on getting the car done and on the road. I apologize that I missed the milestone.

Originally Posted by Ron in SoCal (Post 561712)

Besides, it's back on jackstands,

Originally Posted by Ron in SoCal (Post 561712)

Thanks Ry! No apologies necessary. Besides, it's back on jackstands, :lol:

:cheers:

Originally Posted by 214Chevelle (Post 561716)

Ron, uhhh...wait for it. (enters the usual and normal jokesters) :stirthepot: :poke:

Originally Posted by 214Chevelle (Post 561716)

Ron, uhhh...wait for it. (enters the usual and normal jokesters) :stirthepot: :poke:

Originally Posted by Cosmo mentis (Post 561749)

Yes, as always the temptation is great.

I was goin to try and work this lil fellow into the whole 'stagnant body of water dead pool' conversation, but I've decided against it.

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k1...psf6bccf88.jpg


:hello:

Originally Posted by syborg tt (Post 561751)

what the heck is that ?!!!

Originally Posted by Cosmo mentis (Post 561752)

Marty,

IIRC it's a salamander.

Ugh...

Originally Posted by Cosmo mentis (Post 561752)

Marty,

IIRC it's a salamander.

Ugh...