WoW!!! Rocking #`s !!!
Who`s midplate you gona use?:king:

Ha, ain't going quite that far.

Thanks!

What? gona use front plate trans mount ?????????????????

That was the plan. Trying to keep things simple. You don't like that call I take it.

I know you are.....cage and seat mount strength, steering column. I'm not going to push it any farther. just wanted to make sure there's a balance of horsepower and safety in the build because that motor definitely tips the scales. :bigun2: :thumbsup:

Good points. I am going to raise the front of my seat bracket to get a better angle and body position -- something I wasn't happy with before. I have the Corbeau sliding seat brackets for now, but I do like the side mounts and figure they are stronger.

Also have considered a Woodward type column.... I do have the factory collapsible column for what's worth. I know, it ain't close to a Woodward but it's better than nothing and what many have.

I do appreciate and welcome this discussion. :thumbsup:

I know you do. :thumbsup:
Greg's rear loop bracing grabbed my attention as a good start, I'm far from an engineer or cage expert though. Sutton and Alston appear to know them well.
https://lateral-g.net/forums/atta...5&d=1370240467

If the cage, seat, belts, and column all do their job in a "substantial" event that's reasonable safety.

I would like to get my cage checked out and evaluated at some point. The previous owner took the car to a fab shop and asked them to build him an SCCA cage... I just don't know exactly how well it passes muster.

Greg's cage is very nicely done it appears.

If Brett is able to complete the front tie-in, which I am sure he is capable of, then I think I will be pretty satisfied with my cage front to back.

My guess is Brett will know if it's structurally right or wrong. :thumbsup:

This is a good conversation ! :thumbsup:

FROM 2001 SCCA FOURM

some more info, from another thread in the Technical Forum, about Roll Cages...

6. Material:
A. Seamless, or DOM (Drawn Over Mandrel) mild steel tubing
(SAE 1010, 1020, 1025) or equivalent, or alloy steel tubing
(SAE, 4130) shall be used for all roll cage structures. Proof
of use of alloy steel is the responsibility of the entrant.
B. Minimum tubing sizes (all Formula, Sports Racing, GT, and
Production Category automobiles, and all automobiles
registered prior to June 1, 1994) for all required roll cage
elements (All dimensions in inches):
Vehicle Weight Material
Without Driver Mild Steel Alloy Steel
Up to 1500 lbs. 1.375 x .095 1.375 x .080
1500-2500 lbs. 1.50 x .095 1.375 x .095
Over 2500 lbs. 1.50 x .120, 1.50 x .095
1.625 x .120,
or 1.75 x .095
C. Minimum tubing sizes for (all Showroom Stock, Touring and
Improved Touring Category automobiles registered after June
1, 1994) for all required roll cage elements (All dimensions in
inches):
Up to 1500 lbs 1.375 x .095 DOM / Seamless / Alloy
1501-2200 lbs 1.500 x .095 DOM / Seamless / Alloy
or 1.500 x .120 ERW
2201-3000 lbs 1.500 x .120 DOM / Seamless / Alloy
1.625 x .120 DOM / Seamless / Alloy
1.750 x .095 DOM / Seamless / Alloy
or 1.750 x .120 ERW
(American Sedans may construct to these
specifications regardless of weight.)

3001-4000 lbs 1.750 x .120 DOM / Seamless / Alloy - No
ERW
Over 4000 lbs 2.000 x .120 DOM / Seamless / Alloy - No
ERW
Main hoop: 4 bends maximum, totaling 180 degrees ± 10
degrees.
Front hoop: 4 bends maximum or Front downtubes: 2 bends
maximum.
Rear hoop supports: No bends.
If any of the above bend requirements cannot be met, all
components of the roll cage shall be fabricated from the tubing
size(s) listed for the next heavier category of automobiles.
D. For purposes of determining tubing sizes, the vehicle weight
is as raced without fuel and driver. The minus tolerance for
wall thickness should not be less than .010" below the nominal
thickness. Improved Touring roll cage tubing sizes are to be
calculated based on the published vehicle weight minus 180
lbs.
E. An inspection hole at least 3/16 inch diameter shall be drilled
in a non-critical area of all tubes with a specified size to
facilitate verification of wall thickness.


PIC OF CAGES
http://images.search.yahoo.com/searc...egal+roll+cage

If anything I will probably follow as closely as possible the rules & regs for AIX. I may try to run this car in that class sooner or later, but of course I will be at a major disadvantage in the weight category. Everything else is looking decent and Jake's subframe is an approved subframe (the class requires stock subs or an approved aftermarket bolt in version)

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...51156542,d.cGE

I agree!

A lot going on over here lately. Glad to see you're making progress Dave!

When you do you get your bad mamma jamming engine back in the car ?

:offtopic: does anyone know what the original side markers and front signal lights look like for 68 camaro? where they amber with amber light or white/clear with amber light? I have to buy some and when I get an inspection they may say something if its clear I have to follow DOT standards for now :bang:

Brett is coming up this weekend it looks like (and maybe even my arch nemesis Rob :stirthepot:) to grab all my stuff and take it all down to his new shop and start kickin some ass on it. Can't wait. :thumbsup:

Hey Sean, I actually do not know as I have never really paid attention to that. But I am sure someone on here knows and can chime in for you with an answer.

FRONT SIGNAL ARE AMBER AND FRONT SIDE MARKERS ARE CLEAR


REALLY??? YOU'RE GONA LET ROB BE ALONE WITH BMF???:confused59: :bitchslap: :lostmarbles: :underchair: :gitrdun:

Ok I have been playing with my new MSD 6AL-2 programmable box and trying to set up a fuel curve here. First time doing this and wondering what you guys think.

On the dyno we ended up with 30* timing (dist locked out).

Since I will run this on the street occasionally and thought programming some retard down low would help at start up and low speeds/off-idle.

Figured the idle will be in the 1100-1200 range so I started the curve at 1400 rpm and have it all in at 3000. I've some curves where the retard is linear from zero up to 2500 or 3000, and then I have seen some like this where it's a "flat lined" constant retard for an rpm range before getting up to all in at 2500 or 3000.

What do you guys think?

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps870f0332.jpg

With that combination, you won't bog it down in gear below 2,000 or so. If you do, you will want less timing to prevent detonation.

lateral-g

Does it involve any Fords? :D

:gitrdun:

My honest opinion --- that's what your DYNO operator should have been helping you with....


A guess on timing is a motor that's going to have problems.

There is no guessing here on timing. We already tuned for timing on the dyno. And you know his rep. He isn't a schlep. (Hey that rhymes)

This is just for the start up and low rpm retard. I am not putting in MORE timing. We are already running at least 2 degrees less advance than what we tested fine on the dyno, but since power difference was less than 1% 30* is where it stays. Add to that E85 has much better anti-detonation characteristics than gas and we are in a pretty conservative safe zone, all things considered.

I already discussed with Mike that I was going to put some retard in down low with my programmable box and he agreed it was a good idea.

That being said, some smarter guys than me on Corner Carvers encouraged me to increase the timing from 0 to about 800 rpm and then have a constant retard surrounding my idle rpm (300 rpm on each side of it -- target idle is approx 1100) and then at 1400 rpm start pulling out the retard (advancing more) in a linear fashion up to 3000 rpm. Again, smarter guys than me! Here is where I am out now. They encouraged me to add a MAP sensor if I really start driving this on the street a lot but only time will tell how much that is.

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps747646c3.jpg

In drag racing with a timing lockout ----- we put a coil interrupter (Susie can probably explain the whole interruptus thing to you) so you could spin the motor --- no timing in --- lift off the switch and let it fire. That, of course, is just for a start sequence.


The motor in the Mustang has a normal timing curve and idles about 1200 but doesn't "like" anything but "punch it I know the road!".... so I have no clue about street driving your monster race car -- 'cause I just wouldn't do it. :>)

The reason I said your dyno operator should have worked with you on the timing is because THAT IS THE PLACE TO DO THOSE THINGS.... he is able to put a load on the motor -- run it at an rpm -- watch all the parameters of importance.... and dial it right in. Including fueling.

I know that the TOTAL timing was set at the dyno --- but the curve is every bit as important.

That's now how Mike rolls with his dyno. He gets it running good and safe and then says tune it in the car. Many people tune on a dyno but not Mike. He says too many conditions (loads, etc) change from dyno to car so it's a wasted strain on the dyno.

This is just getting a base curve to start out.

Plenty of people (like you in your tracky car) just run a locked out full advance setup just fine. We ran it on my last motor and it was great for 2 years.

MSD probably had not invented the programmable 6AL-2 box back when you were dealing with your coilus interruptus. :action-smiley-027:

Are you kidding! MSD didn't even exist back then!!!



HAHAHAHAHA


We're talking 1970 here! My guess is --- YOU didn't even exist then!




EEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAA

The Digital 6 has a 20 deg retard for starting so no worries about cranking. The Dinosaur method GW mentions if for motors back in the day of the FE.:lol:

I have to look at the MSD instructions so I don't know if the 20 is subtracted from the rpm at cranking or total timing. I say leave 20 in it below idle, or 10 out if you want to look at it that way. As people have told you this stabilizes idle by quickly building some torque if the motor falls below the desired rpm range bouncing it back into that range.

You have an efficient combustion chamber and high compression so flame travel across the piston shouldn't be an issue as evidenced by only needing 30 deg of total timing. I don't think you need a bunch of timing down low like some of us with archaic combustion chambers.


For your idle rpm start conservative at 20 out and leave the linear curve you have from there to 4000 for starters. I don't know enough about your SB2.2 but I would think you don't need to be all in as early as 3000 because of your compression and cyl head efficiency.

Once it runs in the car. You can add timing in at idle with the car running and get a feel for how much timing it likes at idle by listening to the motor. The idle quality will get better as you move timing up and then start to get choppy when you get to much timing because the cyl pressure peaking too early will be fighting the piston traveling up the bore. I would do this little exercise with the idle set a little on the low side since it will make the changes in idle more obvious.

Keep in mind this is all based on a proper AF ratio. You are running fat which requires a little more timing that if you were dead on. If you optimize your jetting you will have to go back and tweak the timing again. Your chassis dyno told you a peak all in timing #. Some old school ear tuning can get you pretty close on what the motor wants at idle. From there you can get pretty close on when to bring it in. JMHO


Your car is relatively light and your gearing and tire diameter are helping to minimize the load on the motor. That along with the preigniton resistance of E85 reduces a lot of concerns of hurting your motor with to much timing.

But as mentioned you don't need a bunch of timing to ensure peak pressure is reached early enough so I wouldn't get to aggressive with the timing without running it on a chassis dyno.

When the motor is running in the car you can dial in the carb and ignition on the chassis dyno and that will tell you how much timing you really need.

Where is Ron in Nor CA? He has a "developed" SB2.2:headscratch: He'll probably call BS on my advice.:underchair:

:cheers:


http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/o...g/26260053.jpg

The Digital 6 (6520) does have the start retard built in. The programmable 6AL-2 (6530) does not. You program it exactly how you want it. I have the 6AL-2 and I think you do too? :computer:

http://www.msdignition.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14791

Ron in Norcal has a developed motor yes... but it's a 23 degree not SB2.2. His developed SB2.2 would probably make 100 more hp than mine. :sieg:

Not a bad photo there, Mr Forvette. :mock:

So how'd that trip go? :stirthepot:

I've seen better:mock:

:cheers:



http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/l...ps7c5dfee7.jpg

I've seen better as well :mock:

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-F...FPD8675-XL.jpg

Now that's a Ford I would allow in my garage.

But of course this one trumps that. :thumbsup:

When Brett and I stopped by to grab my engine on Friday, Mike @ Watson Racing just happened to be dynoing a 650 cubic inch Pro Stock motor. :eek:

The sound made the hairs stand up all over my body. The hairs did stand up when my motor was on the dyno, but that was for different reasons. :G-Dub: :lol:

1400+ hp
1000+ ft lbs

Enjoy.

Yep you're right :waveflag: , got me there, there isn't a switched start retard like on the 6520. You can just take 30 deg out below 400 that will make starting easy. Fix that on your timing map will you.:bitchslap:

Now explain to me where in the instructions the MSD controls adjusts the carb jetting to control the fuel curve?:headscratch:

:cheers:

Egg Sack Lee



I too, noticed the "fuel curve" and just left it alone.... but I had started loading the ammo....

You guys knew what I meant... :twak:

http://www.screeninsults.com/images/...agnificent.jpg

HA HA!! Nice one Dave.:lol:

Ok so I was guided to make one more change for the initial map and to add some timing at idle speed. Here is where I am at now. Will be fun to play with it on start up and see how it reacts to some small changes, if anything.

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps2ee06904.jpg

I hope your start up goes much better than mine! :sieg:

Congrats on 3000 post too. :thumbsup: