Rob, I don't think Jake meant to bash anyone. I believe he is questioning the motives behind the work involved to achieve what he believes is a small gain...productive or not.

As a performance shop I have been down that road and felt that the required modifications to do it right might hurt performance. It wasnt worth the time or money to even try it. As a great friend once said "street car or race car, there is no in between, You only end up with a fast street car or a slow track car. Make your choice."

I believe Dave has a goal in mind of how he wants his car to look and perform. If he achieves his goals then he will be happy. If he doesn't he will fix it.

I still think this thread will somehow get to 200K page views someday. This stuff may help. :D

:relax:

POW!

That and he doesn't want anyone altering his products.

This maybe simplistic, but why wouldn't you just use the drop spindles to take some height out of the front. It would be a hell of a lot cheaper, and it also fixes that stupid not being able to swap out the wheel bearings at the track without breaking the knuckles apart thing(lower bolt is exposed on drop spindles). I know Steve Rupp had the same issue with Bad Penny, and installed billet drop uprights, fixed height issue without changing geometry.

Hell, Jake helped me modify his subframe on my AMX. I think he was just saying that was a lot of coin, and effort for an inch.

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Other/...2520view-L.jpg

Well this got interesting in a hurry....

:popcorn2: :lol:



Hey Dave! How ya going to moderate this one??




EEEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAA

A REAL honest to gawd 1969 photo of a Trans Am race.... with some suspension travel "back in the day".....


Today - we'd dial that out til she ran flat.... but back in the day... oh my...





http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...os/file-44.jpg

Not wanting to stoke any flames, but I read it the same way. (it probably also helps that I know Jake and have communicated with him for a few years now) Although I do think Dave's intentions (I could be wrong, shouldn't speak for him) aren't as much concerned with streetability as track performance (Rob certainly pointed out a few of those in his post).

I think this car is going to be awesome when completed. Since I run the JRS setup also, and my car sits pretty low, I was just wondering what effect going that much lower would have. Jake actually emailed me and explained that some angle to the LCA's is actually expected and planned with his setup/geometry, so I got a little more education myself from asking the question...

I'll be curious to follow along here and see how things are modified to handle the changes. Certainly anything can be done, and it's Dave's project and money to throw at it! :G-Dub:

Take your pink Ford panties out of your crack.

I'm with these guys, I didn't see it as bashing, simply constructive advice.

My thoughts exactly. :tv_happy:

That would be a logical choice but as a fellow fabricator ( not meaning to step on Brett's toes by speaking for him)but I enjoy problem solving and creating solutions from scratch. Sometimes it's the fun way around.
Note: this coming from a guy that would rather spend 36 hours straight tig welding a 16g stainless steel 90 point roll cage in a 1962 Volkswagen bug than doing 1 hour of writing estimates and updating a profit loss statement.:computer:

:headspin: I hope he let's it ride and uses it for fuel to finish his car the way he invisions it.

I think a 20 in the rear would fit the look he is after. Brett is that an 18 315 on there now?

lateral-g

Interesting--buried in this seems to be a debate between a trade off between looks and performance--(desired ride height/looks vs track performance)

I think it's worth all of the effort to have my car as low as it can go---but I like the way it looks--and I will be driving mine on the street and taking long trips--and I am willing to sacrifice some performance if necessary to achieve that. The great thing about having Brett do this for me is the fact that he has been able to achieve this for me while giving me more suspension travel than I had before and better articulation at a lower ride height than I had before--which in the end gives me a better performing car at a ride height that I absolutely love. Brett won't do it unless it's going to be correct in the end. I recognize that 20's on a 69 in the rear is not every ones taste--but I have never built the car for anyone but me. So in the end, build it the way you want it--if it costs an extra 10k to lower the car and you have it to spend, do it--especially if it won't sacrifice performance. Trade offs for looks, performance, streetability , etc are a big part of this gig in my opinion--and somewhere--usually in your wallet--is the balance of all of these.

D

"What you need is an impartial mediator. Course, it would have to be someone who hasn't heard the story before. Someone who is unencumbered by any emotional attachment. Someone whose heart is so dark, it cannot be swayed by pity, compassion, or human emotion of any kind." -Jerry Seinfeld

Ok Brett, I was no where near your balls on this one. You have to stop thinking every comment is an attack on your manhood.

This isn't the first time. When I made the harmless observation and commented "although I'm not a big fan of grinding down tig welds on a roll cage component" you took it personal and then attacked my skills and knowledge as a weldor. Fine, I'm thick skinned.
I get it Brett, your an artist. But please don't take opinions so personal. Just look at it for what it is. Don't get me wrong, I like your Brett-ti-torials and look forward to them but geeze man throw away the beret and man up. Your on a public forum. Your gonna get opinions and criticism from all sides.

All I was saying was I think Dave may need a taller tire and I'm sticking with that. I think it would have been a lot easier if you had replied " what do you mean Vince".

Again I'm not putting you down. It's ok.

Come on no more of this :catfight: :catfight:

Just more of this:grouphug: :grouphug:

This is why this site is better then all the others, because we talk about what we are doing and share ideas? Not bash or try to tell someone else what they should or shouldn't do?

I think Greg has said it best time and time again the only one that has to like it is the guy paying the bill!!!

As far as coping goes aren't most of the front suspension that use C/5-C/6 setup a copy of what GM designed?? Refined sure I get that, made better for sure in most cases, but everyone that builds a sub frame or full frame with these parts has taken the concept from GM? Just sayin!

He's got all the opinions he needs. I agree, the only one that really counts is his own. I didn't see the PM's, my opinion was based on what was posted on the forum which I still think is constructive advice.

Now that I'm looking in on these projects after pissing countless dollars down the drain on things that didn't make much difference in the end, it's hard for me to get on board with redesigning a system that clearly works as designed for the majority of the intended application.

I see it as a delay from getting on the track and having fun. But, my passion for it has waned so I see things differently these days.

Let's keep the politics out of it.

Hard to disagree...:D :relax:

Watch the reach around man! LOL

Without knowing the full story it's hard to know what is going on. I favor transparency.

Again, I'm not bashing anyone. Just sayin.

Greg, I'm headed over to Whole Foods for lunch and then a workout at the gym. Please keep an eye on things while I'm away. :unibrow:

I just wonder if Flash had used an LSX (or an FE)... would this thread have spiraled so out of control?



:lol:

Get some carrots to juice dude!


I used to shop at Whole Foods -- but I can't afford $300 for two bags of groceries.


To the rest of ya....


Ya know what I love about Lat G? We've never let stuff like this creep into our threads. Let's go back to just having a good time and slapping each other on the back. If I want YellowBullet I'll go over there....


Oh yeah ---- if I was home I'd go measure the ground clearance on the Lotus -- I'd be willing to bet it's less than 3 inches at the chin.





http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...tus/file-4.jpg

Lost my own bet -- the chin spoiler is 3.6 inches high.... I need 4+ inches to clear the ramp of the trailer.... and had all manor of issues trying to load this up.... wood under the wheels etc.

Of course this measurement depends on lots of things -- such as the distance from the nose to the wheel center etc - and the little Lotus is quite long there.


Just saying -- LOW is fun but creates other issues with drivability. No way the Lotus see any street driving - and it just simply wouldn't make it if I tried.

You've got to watch for jack clearance and things like that - especially at the track where you may need to actually work on the car. I carry race ramps in the rig for this reason.

just the right height to clear your average parking stop. :D

this is what what im talking about. Run your race man....Listen to Terry, Its time to man up and stop crying.

Again, im not bashing you. Keep it going, F*** the B*** S***

3112 :hello:

WTF!! This thing aint done yet!! I'm going back to sleep!! What year should I set my alarm clock to? :lol:

J/K Dave. For what it's worth pretty sure this one is a no brainer. Set that thing up the way Jake designed it be. :poke:

Todd have you been lurking in my bushes lately? How did you know what color panties I'm wearing?:lol:

You probably should get back to juicing some wheat grass and taking Jeraldo selfies of yourself for future posts. You seemed to have lost your Zen edge. Return to balance, gain center, be the change you want to see in the world, and stop staring in my window.:lmao:

I agree this thread does need to get back on track.

DG hurry up and post the poll so everyone can decide by committee: what shall your ride height be? :P Or just make a decision like it's your car.

Since we are talking about Camaro and Bowtie parts I vote cut them up beyond recognition.:lmao:

GW. When did you get that Lotus? How did I miss that? I want one of these. Saw it at Coronado today.

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/l...ps96ed3d37.jpg

:cheers:

I refuse to be held liable for what you don't know....


Please try to keep up in the future.

Thanks for pulling me aside. I guess I will hire an assistant to track your purchasing. :poke:

:y0!: Was it prior to the Wilson and after the Renegade? I need to get it in the correct spot on the spreadsheet.

I bought some lug nuts this week.

:cheers:

I've been spending to much time around my limited associations. :lol:

Where's Dave?

Wisely lurking in the shadows.

Ha good one Sieg!

I'm sure once all is said and done Badmotorfinger will speak for itself on the track!! And in the end if it performs like Dave wanted that's all that matters.:bigun2:

::cheers:

This got interesting... I'm enjoying this more than the Dexter finally :cheers: