The Simulator is an awesome training aid! You are very lucky to have access to one. I've used one and yeah....it's shocking!

I'm glad to see that you brought up cover. Big difference between cover and concealment. Best to know the difference.

Greg you bring up a lot of great talking points! I greatly appreciate you doing so. More and more I am amazed at the lack of knowledge people have when it comes to firearms on every level. I firmly believe that education is the key to so much in life, especially when it comes to a life and death subject like owning a firearm.

I hope everyone will seek out training and work to improve not only their skills, but also their knowledge base.

Curtis ---

I'm not smarter than anyone else - just luckier. I've got two good guys guiding me on this the whole way. When you have cops with decades of experience -- you get good info. Good access too... and then I've found even more camaraderie and info while at the range. It's truly amazing how these guys are willing to help and to share info IF you show that you're truly interested in learning. It helps too that I have way more time on my hands than I know what to do with. Let's face facts... most people have actual lives to live... they just can't put the time in... where I can get a phone call -- "hey! The sim is open do you want to come down and play?"

The "cover" thing was something I would never think about on my own. Who would? BTW -- the other thing that's being drilled into my little pea brain.... repetition/practice/and repeat again. This stuff needs to be done without even thinking about it when needed. That's why the officers train constantly. They need to just do - not think. No time to think only time to do.

Obviously we'd never train like these guys do - and that would be silly. We'll most likely be lucky enough to live our entire lives without ever having to draw down on someone. Let's hope that's true anyway. But still -- I feel a responsibility to be SAFER because I wouldn't ever want to injure someone accidentally...myself included. The little things like "what's beyond your target"... those things are critical! What if you shoot at an intruder and kill your neighbor? OMG!! How many windows and doors are almost perfectly aligned with the house next door or just across the street? We don't live in walled fortresses. You start popping off high powered rounds... they don't just stop and drop at your property line.

Anyway -- it's all good discussion. It's been very informative to sit and listen... and there's so many things to think about!


:thankyou:

Curtis brings up a good point. You can't make the decision to pull the trigger when someone kicks down your door. It needs to be made right now. All the simulating and practicing doesn't mean a damn thing if you won't pull the trigger.

Ducks at yardage with 28-30" barrel. At 5-7 yards with a tactical barrel my tests resulted in a 6" hole in plywood. Penetration could be upped with steel, Hevishot, or Bismuth. I hope you're not shooting pheasant with magnum loads unless you're making stew with them. :D

The 21' rule is THE RULE. We practice at the range with the target set at 21' and our weapon in typical conceal carry position a second person advances the target and you have to draw and fire. It reinforces that rule well. You have to be well practiced to place a double-tap.

Siegster....


Going into the sim room for the first time... holstering a weapon EXPECTING that there was going to be foul play.... But in the blink of an eye - you have to recognize - draw - decide that you need to pull the trigger.... That 21' gap is closed and the perp is all over you. AMAZING! As in OMG! So on the next scenario - you get all jumpy and squirt the guy and all he was doing was going for his registration...:lol: :lol: :lol:


By the end of the session -- things actually seem to slow down - your heart rate is better - you on target - you're not as jumpy... you're looking at things completely differently.

So - again.... I can't imagine waking up - dazed and confused - heart rate racing - fumbling for the great protector... it's pitch black...you didn't start this action by lighting the guy up for a traffic stop... so you're unprepared for the situation... and then all it really is.... your daughter is sneaking back into the house. (how many of US have been there done that!!)

I am very impressed with the direction this thread is going. My hope is that the discussion here will encourage people who own firearms to attend some sort of training course (or additional course).

Greg, you're not smarter, but you are putting forth the time and effort to improve you knowledge base. Just the mention of how crazy it was when you first started to use the simulator and now how it almost seems like things are slowing down is proof that you are improving. It's obvious that you are seeing more and more while thinking about 'what if's'. That's huge! It might sound corny, but I really don't care. It brings a huge smile to my face to hear about what you are doing and I am proud of you. Yes you have more free time than...well anyone I know, but there are tons of weekend courses out there. Plenty of gun ranges that are open in the evenings where one can shoot after work. There really isn't an excuse for not practicing. A person can even use a blue gun (or an unloaded one) at home for certain drills.

Todd, thank you for reinforcing my previous statement. I honestly believe that if you are buying any type of weapon for personal/home defense, that decision should be made before you buy your weapon. If you can't or won't use your weapon to take the life of another who is trying to do you or your loved ones harm, then it will most likely be used against you.

By the way Todd, if you would like to join me at the range I'd be more than willing to lend you one of my AR's and you're welcome to shoot any of my hand guns. Give me a call and let me know. Oh and I have something here at the house for you.

Greg - The friend/foe recognition adds a completely new dimension doesn't it!

That little drill we do at the range really is an eye opener for most gung-ho concealed carry people. If you set the stage you can create a little hype, add a little distraction, and not knowing when the target is going to start advancing and you realize 21' ain't nothing.

Taking a sight picture.....ain't happening.
Coat zipped or buttoned........ain't happening.
Fumbling the draw..........knifed.

You must put a lot of thought into where the gun is placed, what it's placed in, and what you conceal it with.

Practice the moves over and over and over. Clear, grip, draw, and get the muzzle on target asap. I try to have the muzzle rotating up onto the target as soon as it clears the holster/wasteband. My free hand joins the grip during that rotation, and first rounds are discharged without advancing the gun towards the threat. Pretty much like a gunfighter in a quick-draw fight.

Live fire practice and more practice until you can comfortably look the rounds into the center of mass from the hip or sternum height firing position at 15' with a stationary torso target. Once that's comfortable, start practicing on advancing targets. Teach yourself you do not need sights to place accurate shots.

It's a lot of fun and real challenging. :thumbsup:

Sieg...


The clear and get the muzzle on target has been shown to me... and this is another thing that folks don't think about --- without being shown -- prior I would draw - raise up arms extended - sight.... of course by that time I was already dead. :lol:


None of this is automatic of course... I still want to stand up straight instead of presenting the smallest possible target... and I still want to sight. I've only been in the sim 3 times now... my buddies have probably been in there 100's of times. They see stuff that I don't - you know - like the woman with the grocery cart 50 yards out directly back of the perp... just little things like that <grin>.

I know you've mentioned competition. It would be so much fun! I'm not allowed in the training area with the actual live fire and moving targets. That's police only. I'd love to be shown that area and be able to use it - but it's the busiest portion of the range.

Funny -- if you'd have asked me 6 months ago about owning a handgun I'd have said "Why would I want that?". But it was my friends that said I SHOULD have one given my plans with the new rig. They were aghast that I would park along side an interstate and go to sleep - or pull off into some "area" on a deserted state road somewhere. Since then - I've asked myself why I didn't do this years ago. It really is fun.

My hope is to NEVER have to even think about actually pointing it at someone. But I now know I'll sleep a lot better knowing it's there and that I kinda know how to use it.

+++++++++++++++++



Curtis,


Thanks!!

Here's a very good read with solid handgun techniques and tips: http://www.worldwidedojo.com/reality...steven-seagal/

People can say what they want about Seagal, but the man is a documented master with a 1911 in his hand. :guns:

Really interesting interview/article.

If he is half as wicked with a 1911 as he is with hands and feet... OH MY!

I have a new dream..... Is this the perfect handgun for a hot rodder or what!!!











http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...os/file-20.jpg

Todd, do you have a special permit to carry in Clarke county, if so how did you acquire it.

I know you asked Todd, but I can answer that one for you. It's not a county issue, a carry permit or concealed carry permit is issued by the state. You can get one by attending a course in which you are taught the basic NV laws and required to shoot. Usually around $100.00-ish. NV is an open carry state, meaning you can carry a hand gun on your hip, so long as it isn't covered in anyway. If you are looking to get your NV CCW let me know. Laurie has some great contacts through LVMPD and can recommend someone.

If you have an AZ CCW, NV will honor it.

Here's a good site to find out info about different state laws.
http://www.handgunlaw.us/

This is a better website - interactive - to find out what permits (resident or NON resident) will have reciprocity with various states.

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/travel/




First pick your HOME state - then just answer the questions as they come up.
For instance - my HOME state is Washington - but I also have a permit in Utah - but it's a NON-resident permit... so I just answer those correctly and the map shows all the CC states in Blue.


I can tell you right now - you'll be EXCLUDED from CC in California and Oregon... (the two states I personally would travel in the most, of course!)

Front Sight 4 Day Defensive HG training
 

I have just registered for the FRONT SIGHT 4 day Defensive Hang Gun training school that takes place in PAHRUMP -- the MONDAY (11/11/2013) after OUSCI

Yes it's spendy @ $2,000 --- and I understand that part with most guys just having spent a small fortune in time and money to go to SEMA... but it'd sure be fun to have others there with me!




http://www.frontsight.com/index.asp?

Nice link. According to it I can carry in 36 states. :thumbsup:

I am attending a class there next month. Haven't used this facility yet, but it seems to be very popular. I'll let you know how it goes. Maybe I'll join you in November.

Curtis thanks for replying. I have a concealed permit for AZ and Utah. I was under the impression even though it reciprocates with Nevada Clarke county doesn't allow it???

They do. Now North Las Vegas tires to enforce their City law that says you can't carry a gun, concealed or not, within their city limits even though it's against Nevada state law and illegal on their part. They have a ton of legal problems over this and the Police officers I know from that department will not enforce it. Still...best not to open carry there.

Laurie works for the Las Vegas Metro Police Department here and knows the guns laws VERY well. She even has officers who will call her for advice. lol If you have any questions I know she would be happy to advise you further. PM me and I'll give you her cell number if you'd like.

Can you just PM me her number directly -- I have lots of stuff I'd like to "discuss" with her... I'd be willing to pay her attorney bills to dump your sorry azz... and I have a few other proposals she might be willing to listen to. :D

The way she spends money, even you would be broke my friend. There's a reason I'm still working.

:G-Dub:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Good answer!

I would think this is completely unenforceable. They (the county or city) could have laws modifying the CC laws of the state - i.e., ban firearms from city parks etc. But to try to override a state license.... Good luck with that.

What do you guys think of open carry? In MO, it's an open carry state, but you just don't see a lot of people doing that. And if you do, chances are people will freak, and you will get harassed. Is this different in your states?

Case in point, someone was doing it here. He got harassed, but also made a youtube of it. The police chief in our town went to the council to get 'open carry' banned in public. I voiced my opinion to my council reps, it ended up being dropped real quick. Because any town law would not override our state laws which allow for open carry.

So how is it in your town and does anyone personally do it?

It's funny isn't it --- if a cop is open carry people feel protected.... but if a citizen open carries they feel threatened. Go figure.


If you want to carry - get a CC permit - and don't go around having people freaked out. Why create a problem when you can avoid it so easily.

There are a lot of gang problems in NLV and I'm sure that's the reason that they have tried this. From what I've heard the state is after NLV over this. Not sure on the details. Not like anyone would ever win money from NLV in a law suit. No one in that city works and the city is broke.

It's all about the blue costume! :lol:

I have a CC permit. I personally choose not to open carry.

Laurie and I both will open carry from time to time. Depends on where we're going. If it's dinner and a movie we will carry concealed. If I am just out running around town, more often than not, I'll open carry. I'm a shorts and t-shirt kind of guy and it's just easier. No one has given me a hard time about it and in fact a lot of people don't even notice. I am pretty out going and I think that says a lot when people do notice. More females have asked questions than men and honestly that's only been in the last few weeks. The few men who have commented usually make stupid statements. Trying to be cool guys I suppose. I'm sure it's due to the current hype. I've been expecting some negativeness, but there hasn't been any. Yesterday I was in the local gas and gulp paying for my drink and a police officer walked up to the register right next to me. I was wearing my SIG P226 Tactical with a 20 round magazine (Not going to lie...it's pretty obvious). He just smiled. I do my best to be a positive example for responsible gun ownership. I promote gun safety at all times and I am willing to answer anyone's questions, as long as they are respectful. The number one piece of advice I give is training and everyone has been very receptive to that. A positive example can go a long ways as does someone who is willing to share. I have a few friends that where anti guns, that are now gun owners and taking classes. It is very rewarding to see someone who was against guns, educate them self and become a responsible gun owner.

I don't agree 100% with the last half of your statement. While I don't want people to freak out, I am only willing to go so far to make others comfortable. Others need to respect my rights and feelings, just as I do theirs.

I see a lot of people who carry concealed. It's not obvious, but if you look a lot of people who do carry 'imprint'. I have to wonder how things might be different if all of those people where to open carry. Would we be having the anti gun crazyness we are seeing or would people understand that a gun isn't evil? I honestly think that crime would be way down. Fear of the unknown is very powerful. A person, like an officer, who everyone knows has a gun isn't viewed as a threat. Like any police officer, my gun is carried for the same reason. Protection. Protection against those who would do me or my loved ones harm.

I think its very different out there, than here. We are a smaller rural town of about 12,000, and even though most people are avid hunters in the town, I still think people are very closed minded about personal gun ownership. It's nice to hear there are some good people who successfully carry out there.

Used to be able to open carry in California, up until a year ago or so. But the gun could not be loaded. :poke: Then several people started doing it just because they wanted to make videos of peoples reactions, followed shortly by a ban on open carry. :rolleyes:

This girl's 2 cents on firearms
 

Personally, my current concealed carry is a Springfield XD 9mm. My new favorite gun though is a Sig P226 9mm. I'm waiting for my renewed CCW to show up, therefore I am now needing to carry open. In Nevada which obviously includes Clark County, I have every right to do so. For more info on Nevada concealed carry check out: NRS 202.3673 You keep your business covered up well enough you have nothing to worry about and no attention will be drawn to you. If you choose to open carry however, yes you may expect Uneducated Joe/Jane Public to freak out or talk...or even call the police. And what the police will ask is: Is this person threatening anyone with the gun? Are they holding it in their hand or is it in a holster? If the answers are not threatening and in a holster then we will put up a call coded: PERSON WITH A GUN, but the priority is just to have an officer drive by, try and locate the person, observe their behavior. If all is fine, they leave. Because they are doing NOTHING WRONG OR ILLEGAL. We also explain this to the callers as well.

Now, for open carry or if a business sees that you are concealed...see NRS 207.200 and this refers to trespassing. The main points are: 1a) Willfully goes or remains upon any land or in any building after having been warned by the OWNER or OCCUPANT thereof not to trespass, is guilty of a misdemeanor. And further down...d) By the owner of occupant of the land or building making an oral or written demand to any guest to vacate the land or building.

Summary: If your asked to leave, just because the law states you can carry...you've been asked to leave someone's property so be a responsible upstanding gun owner and leave. A business or their representative can refuse service to anyone, at any time, for any reason.

Carrying open will open you up for more people also to approach you and ask you questions. Happened to us the other day while trying to shop for cars and furniture. We spent more time talking guns than we did trim levels, gas mileage, reclining sofa, etc. While I am all for talking to anyone about the rights of citizens and educating them on the law, sometimes I just don't mind being stared at and talked about behind my back so long as I'm left alone.

In Nevada, per NRS 202.254 a private person is authorized to obtain background check on person who wishes to obtain firearm...like in a private person to person sale. This is just to ease your mind. It is an OPTION, but is NOT MANDATORY. There is a fee involved obviously. AND, I am not sure if a private sale is covered by the new law as of July 1, 2012 that states if your CCW was obtained July 1, 2012 or later, that you are NOT subject to ANOTHER background check. Any permits issued prior to that date, you will need to have a background check done for any new gun purchases, even if its still valid.

While I am NOT an expert on all this stuff, I do try to keep up as best as I can. If anyone has any questions, let me know. I'll see what I can do.
P.S. Arizona has new gun laws too pertaining to open/concealed carry for residents and NON residents of the state. As long as you are an American citizen. Check them out.

Good info Laurie!



I can tell you that if I walked around Bellevue with an open carry -- people would be running away from me... and the cops would be swarming. Nobody here is used to seeing that.

I have CC more so that when (not if) I get stopped in the rig - and they want to inspect or whatever - I'm not going to get into trouble cause I have the Kimber in the console or wherever.

Without a CCP I was unsure of what to do when in the car, so I asked. I was told by an Everett officer that it's a grey area in this state. (WA.) He said that he had transferred from Alabama and the laws in that state were much more defined. His attitude towards open carry was great and suggested that I get my CCP...and to do it quickly.

No more open carry for me until I get that squared away:guns:

Greg, Bellevue is just a bit sheltered and the officers are a...mm, hmm:happy23: :warning: :sieg:

:cheers:
Dan

Can you imagine the ruckus if I went into Bellevue Square with the Kimber on my hip.... :guns: :lol: :lol:


I don't care how many permits I have... or even what's legal. I think we have to be very careful about how "others" see us. Discretion is the better part of valur or something like that... and I totally agree.

I was advised by both Mryle and John (my cop buddies) that if I get pulled over - I should hand the cop my drivers license AND my CCP... that I didn't have to "say" anything more than that. It just let's them know that I know and that I "get it" and have "notified" them of the situation.

Showing CCW permit
 

In Nevada...I would show my CCW as a courtesy...but it is not required. Also, on new gun purchases, a blue card or registration card comes with it. But you do NOT need to carry this at all times. Only your CCW and your ID.

People are just either ignorant of the laws or its not an area of interest to them so they never do any research.

Kind of like our laws now that everyone is all up in arms about. They freak out about what they don't know and yet NEVER take the time to educate themselves until its too late or the wool is sooooo far pulled over their eyes they will never get it removed.

Many people remind me of those old fashioned doll cartoons -- where the eyes were just "X"'s....


Personally I'm so angry about, and sick of, hearing legislators -- who SHOULD BE smarter than the man in the street - laying blame on "assault weapons". What f'n idiots.

I was trying to think of the time the three (assault rifles) in my safe -- jumped up and went out on a killing spree... Oh wait! It's PEOPLE that kill people and that seems to be already against the law. Maybe we should just outlaw people???? If only.....

I think in Oregon when they pull you over and run your plate they already know if you have a CCP. thats what a cop told me.