Yeah, as soon as I get Gordon or Weld money :lol: .

Heads in it right now are Dart Pro 1 230/72 cc. I know springs were spec'd for cam because off the shelf seat pressures dont match build specs. I going to have to talk to the NYES guys before I do anything. I know they recently picked up a CNC machine specific for head work so I should probably give them a call first.

Doesn't this thread say "NO WHINERS"?? ;)

Shiiiiat, don't you dare put me on the same planet as Weld when talking about cash. :rolleyes: :lol:

I have been selling more parts lately then purchasing ya know. :lol:

Grasshopper..... in awhile you'll learn to experience silk... and cotton... and appreciate both.


:D

Got the heads pulled today. Looks like a few valves kissed pistons and a couple of them aren't seating properly...not majorly but enough. Looks like I will be replacing the oil pan also.

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/a...5-50-12008.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/a...5-50-12007.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/a...5-50-12006.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/a...5-50-12005.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/a...5-50-12004.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/a...5-50-12003.jpg

Don't forget to tell them about the eastern timing chain breakage history....we'll be doing a deck height check too.

If that's the extent of the damage :thumbsup:

Fingers are crossed for ya buddy.

Nothing a few thousand dollars can't fix.... 'tis racing you know! And the tag line/signature line says that equals poverty!


:D

Gaetano,
So is there any indication of what might have caused this?
Chain failure? Would it still be warrantied

That was the first thing we tried to do.....find out what may have caused the chain to brake. After eliminating the distributor gear and the oil pump I gave the engine builder a call. He told me that around the time I had bought my motor from him there was a spell of timing chain failures. He also told me that the chains being used on the timing chains were Japanese made including the Cloyes timing chains and that he had gone to Cloyes after another PBM chain broke on another motor he had built but ended up going back to the PBM's. I asked, if I were to buy another timing who's should I go with and he still recommended the PBM.

Taking into consideratin that I'm doing 88% of the work I dont think I will be hitting the $3000 mark. I will have NYES do the head work since they're the one's that built the heads in the first place. The other items on top of that will be timing chain, timing chain cover, lifters, oil pan, and gaskets. I was going to do some extra headwork but decided to wait after talking to NYES. They recommended going to a larger cam profile in addition to the headwork for more power and I'm not prepared to go there yet. This shouldn't cost me more than $1500.

You are right though.........'tis part of racing :thumbsup:

Thanks Sieg. Last thing to check today will be piston to deck clearance. Hopefully we should be good. :thumbsup:

I had the engine in Welds yellow Mustang rebuilt by Lambeck at a cost of about 15K and it lasted about 1 session till the oil pump broke off. He had reused the old oil pump. My guess is somebody in his shop had dropped the pump and cracked it, didn't notice it and put it back on. His response to me was too bad but that stuff happens. Had me ship the engine back, tore it down, new bearing, rings etc but he said the old stuff wasn't really hurt, charged me about 5 thousand dollars more. Next time out I made it thru about 10 minutes of a session when the oil pressure started dropping. Pulled the filter and it was full of metal. His response to me was I must have been doing something wrong and told me to ship it back to him. I'm stupid but not that stupid. Sent the engine to Tony Oddo, got rid of the cheap parts that had been used and it has run like a top ever since. Never got one receipt from Lambeck for all the work done either.

That was the car. His engine ran fine until I sent it back just to have it freshened up. I never argued about price and mailed him checks the day he asked for them. I was surprised at the 15K bill for freshening but sometimes that is what it takes to make something bulletproof. I was surprised that the 15K did not include a new oil pump. Then I wondered what else wasn't new, especially since I never got a list of parts that went in it. I'm told he has gotten so big he has many employees doing the work instead of himself ? Maybe I just got the new trainee employee. My few track days are too important to me to be wasted because of crappy work or shortcuts. Maybe for other people he stands behind his work but in my case it never happened. It was a expensive lesson for me....Sorry for the highjack but when I read the name my blood pressure went up. Back to your regularly scheduled programming.:willy:

May as well swap the valve springs and check the oil pump for internal damage from debris. I'd find a local engine builder.

Thanks for having it done at Odo... before selling it to me! I L O V E this engine! I sleep with it under my pillow.


Chow!


:woot:

yeah its hard to find a great builder. I have worked with several machine shops so we have a few to deal with but we'll try to get him to trust someone near by.

Greg..Are you going to eat Chow ?

Ciao.

Chow is more my style and I like to try to be funny....


My new favorite saying while driving is "Skooza..." as in Excuse me - with an Italian accent followed by "so sorry..." I get quite pleased with myself. :lol:

Seriously. Especially after your issues with NYES I am surprised of your loyalty, G. It'd be one thing if they were local but they're half way across the country AND they sent you a leaker before.

You are a funny guy.. Rich, Funny, and Lucky...Great Combo..

Oh no, I am high jacking again.." Skooza", and "So sorry"....:_paranoid

Now I am hungry....Chow...:thumbsup:

Valve springs are definite......I'll check oil pump today.

NYES built the motor then sold it to me. That includes the heads.....built from bare castings. It's their motor. They need to be the ones that work on it period. I'm not 100% happy and confident with my decision but thats how I feel.

After they fixed the leaks last time around everything was fine. This last incident will need more research.

I hear you on utilizing NYES; I hope they take good care of you G!

Oh I've made that fatal mistake more than once.... I'm thick - it takes me a couple tries sometimes because I prefer the "benefit of the doubt".... But I'm getting smarter!

Good engine builders get it right the first time. Trust me on this one!

Hah! I'm learning that same thing right now. I've been pretty lucky with parts, and expenses but between having to figure out what was wrong on my own, and also breaking things, it has cost me a lot of time. I have never had an engine that ran without issue since I've owned my car. What is the point of paying a good amount of money for something that ultimately keeps you from enjoying your car, versus paying a little bit more. At what point do we have to step back and think about how much our time is worth?

Matt

But what they can't do is accurately determine when a component may fail. :D If it was a weak timing chain or bad metalurgy in the gear or elsewhere.......Not defending just a reality IMO.

Timing chains make me nervous. My seat of the pants judgement leans towards a belt or high quality gear drive for max durability. But they are 2-3 x's chains or gears.

They look to have a pretty decent reputation by a quick search. They do seem like a volume crate engine company with some agressive pricing. The more volume and the less margin an engine builder has, the more mistakes and supect parts that will be used.

Unfortunately, I speak from experience. My first engine was built by a crate engine volume place and it was the demise of my engine. They made a mistake and it wiped the bearings. I then found bad guides and a super sloppy timing chain upon disassembly. They offered to fix it but I knew they weren't capable.

Sieg has a point about the part failure. It happens to the best parts. However, some manufacturers have higher standards and less failures. Is the builder using the part to increase profit and attract busines, or because he's freshended up many engines with the same part and inspected them after service?

For us guys that are really leaning on our equipment, I like a clean sheet build and a builder that puts his hands on EVERYTHING specified for the application. My blueprint from Pettis Performance would blow your mind.

My take.......NYES does alot of volume due to the aggressive pricing. You cant blame me for jumping on an aluminum block 427 race engine for $9850 shipped. That price no longer stands and I'm pretty sure I am the last guy that got that deal just by luck because that ad was removed from the Racejunk site after I bought it. They now charge over $3000 more for the same motor on pump gas and only 525 hp. On top of that at no charge they balanced my flywheel to the assembly, centered my Lakewood bellhousing to the block, and had a cam custom ground for my specific application.
Building a relationship with a builder takes time. My feeeling is that if I continue to return we will build a relationship and maybe I get some extra attention. Only time will tell.

As far as the failure goes I will need to do some more research.

Todd, your right about smaller builders that work alone or have a small crew. We were talking about that today at the shop....Vince was trying to talk me into using a local guy that does all the work personally but what experience does he have with PBM blocks and with race motors. Picking an engine builder should be something that one does after alot of research.

NYES built the motor then sold it to me. That includes the heads.....built from bare castings. It's their motor. They need to be the ones that work on it period. I'm not 100% happy and confident with my decision but thats how I feel.

I agree with using a local machinist but as long as we're human errors can and will be made. I use my local machinist for years and have always built my own engines, partly because of cost but also I believe that if you want it done right.......That's what we do from these projects building them. IMHO

Shane

I agree with using a local machinist but as long as we're human errors can and will be made. I use my local machinist for years and have always built my own engines, partly because of cost but also I believe that if you want it done right.......That's what we do from these projects building them. IMHO

Shane[/quote]

Agreed. If I had the time, the shop, and the tools I would do the same. It's gotta be nice to gap your own rings and check your own tolerances.

Hey G, Knowing you drive your car hard, I'd say your High Compression race eng has held up very well. If it wasn't for a unforeseen & unfortunate mechanical failure It would still be running today.

your anal retentive enough to be a great engine builder (assembler), we can build you a nice clean room to do it in.

I agree.....**** happens. Every time I have gotten a first place it has cost me a motor. I might have to take second for now on just to save some money :lol:

Funny, but your right........we may have to do this :thumbsup:

Or just have 2 or 3 identical spare engines in the trailer. Maybe we can have you apprentice with Gordon, he is the #1 Hemi builder in the Western Hemi's-spere. If you can master a Hemi, you can build anything. He said he would teach anyone that would be willing to learn. :hail:

I think we found a new hobby for you. Thats is you don't mind sharing space in the compressor room. :lol:

I just talked to PBM about their timing chains and the rep told me that they had a few issues with their EID chains(not sure what EID means) so they upgraded to Rolon chains.

He said they had been using the EID's for 15 years prior with no issues but within the last two years issues had been occuring so they switched to Rolon a year ago.

Here's a link with a little info:

http://www.jp.com.au/Chain.html

does that make you SOL?

Everybody is a ****ing comedian :rolleyes: :lol:

I LOL'd

SOL is better then OTR

yeah NFS, just like the FNG.