I had tried to make these points in earlier posts... that we have the highest gun ownership by far -- but not the highest % of gun murders...

The fact that Briton has a far higher violent crime rate is an eye opener! I'd have never guessed that one.

John Lott, economist and gun-rights advocate, has extensively studied mass shootings and reports that, with just one exception, the attack on U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords in Tucson, Arizona, in 2011, every public shooting since 1950 in the U.S. in which more than three people have been killed has taken place where citizens are not allowed to carry guns. The massacres at Sandy Hook Elementary, Columbine, Virginia Tech and the Century 16 movie theater in Aurora, Colorado, all took place in gun-free zones.

http://us.cnn.com/2012/12/19/opinion...hts/index.html

The whole UK argument is weak but is also a look ahead.

http://lastresistance.com/906/englan...itchen-knives/

yes, As I have been saying. The laws are there. Try to get these yahoos to enforce them.

I feel a big problem are these new owners that don't understand gun ownership and the resposibility it takes to own one. When I say "new owners" I am speaking of these people who have purchased during ban scare driven shopping sprees. Just bought because everyone was doing it.

I don't have to study mass killings to know that this guy is skewing things hilariously.

I suspect he has a very specific definition of the term public, that eliminates any private property, any home, military bases etc.

I mean he clearly cannot count the fort hood shooting because that is pretty much the antithesis of what hardcore gun rights advocates talk about. After students get shot, it's "if only someone had a gun". When almost 45 people get shot on a military base, it's more like we'd just rather not discuss that one at all.

I'm not advocating for anything, I'm simply pointing out the massive holes in some of the angles people take to sound convincing.

Last night on my local news, one particularly ignorant babbling meat sack in a suit went on and on about "how incomprehensible it is for a regular citizen to own a military-based handgun". "what possible legal use could there be?"

Right now, blathering idiots just like him are deciding the fate of the second amendement. While I wholeheartedly agree that some refinements and improvements desperately need to be made in gun laws and loopholes, I fear that some serious mistakes are about to be made out of IGNORANCE and fear.


Jeff-

Here's an interesting article, not the mysterious crash but the anti-depressant usage:
http://www.naturalnews.com/038616_jo...car_crash.html

More fodder on statistics:



:cheers:

The larger issue is that the VOCAL anti gun dipwads have the microphone -- while "we" blabber to ourselves.


WE need to write to every representative and senator - and to the White House about OUR feelings -- let OUR voices be heard.


The second amendment was about the man in the street being able to defend not only his country but be able to stand against his country should ever the need arise. It doesn't say you have to only be able to hurl a rock at a tank - like they do in other countries. This is what people DO NOT understand...

California has managed to ban just about every type of industry that creates jobs... now look at the state of things there. This is what happens when you have hysteria over reasoning. Some folks just want to control "everything"... and law makers want to do what? They want to make laws! That's they're "job"... Doesn't make any difference if the law is idiotic...

Frankly - I don't care if they want to ban assault rifles etc - I already have them... but what I don't like is people just going about thinking that making another law is the cure.... they spend so much time on that avenue that they completely miss the real issues. That's what get's me PO'd.

The "government" is so wrapped up in making sure everyone is taken care of via some program or another -- that they've completely forgotten that you don't NEED to take care of people if they actually have jobs... and can make a living.

Very well put GW :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Great video from amidst the noise.

A great leader once said "to effectively control a population keep them poor, hungry, unhealthy, uneducated and unarmed."

From a woman's point of view....if you don't mind.
 

I do not rely solely on my husband to protect me. He is my partner in protecting our family and home. We are equals. When I do not have the luxury of having him by my side in my daily routine...shopping, going to and from work...it is up to ME to protect myself and be aware of my surroundings at all times. Like driving my car, I need to be aware of the cars and people around me so I don't cause or become a victim of a crash.

A woman who does nothing to protect herself or her family is an easy target and this will sound harsh...but I have little sympathy for when she makes herself vulnerable to an attack. DO NOT go to the grocery store with 3 kids and a large obnoxious purse. That puts a flashing neon sign over your head saying...I'm not able to pay attention to you cuz I'm concerned only that my kids won't run out in front of a car, or I'm too busy telling them NO YOU CANT HAVE ANY CANDY. I'm trying to hold my big ass purse up on my shoulder while holding hands with one kid and pushing an overflowing cart of groceries. Now I'm at my car, popped the trunk, set the cart next to the car and am trying to get my kids loaded inside or into car seats. My groceries are unattended, my purse I set in the cart and my focus is not on my surroundings. That is when you get approched by one or 2 dirt bags who grab your purse, take the keys, put a gun to your head and push you out of the way, then get into your car and drive off. Where is your cell phone? In the purse they stole. Where are your kids? In the car they stole. Now you are left screaming in the middle of a parking lot or running into the store to use the phone or scream to have someone else call for you. Please don't give me the excuse of...but we needed food for dinner for the week. Maybe your husband can help you out on this? Maybe you can do the shopping on your own on the weekend? This is something I feel needs to be taken into consideration to reduce a woman's chances of being a victim.

I own my own handgun. I have my CCW. While I am NOT an expert marksman, I do pretty good, but it is always a never ending learning/practicing event in my life. You don't just sit and watch a guy in a garage change oil, install a suspension, clear coat a car 1 time then automatically know how to do it yourself right? Same holds true with owning and using a firearm.

I hate to say anything negative about the schools, but in LV...the school police are not up to par to protect our kids like many would think. They have jurisdiction ONLY on their property and the streets directly adjacent to a school. THE END. They are not trained or equipped to handle major emergencies. They call the local police departments for that. They do not have a large scale staff either. Hiring retired/unemployed former military. Yes, great idea. However, there needs to be a through background check and psych that goes along with them just like an officer. Some...SOME I say, returning vets have been exposed to horrible traumatic events and suffer PTSD. I get MANY calls with these brave men and women, who do not take their meds because it would prevent them from getting certain jobs...law enforcement,security... Again...SOME.

The Constitution provided me and you the right to bear arms...not just the militia. If your not familiar with the Constitution...READ IT, LEARN IT, UNDERSTAND IT. It also gives all of us freedom of speech. So even the nay sayers and anti-gun advocates have the right to voice their opinion. I have no control over that. Just as they have NO control to impede the freedoms and rights it affords me.

Lastly, because I know this is long....and I'm a girl and like to gab...the Brady Bill was found to be illegal and unconstitutional by the United States Supreme court. The Federal govt tried to force their laws on local/state officials to do their dirty work. But you never hear about that do we? We still hear the Brady Bill, but they so conveniently leave out all the story. For more info on that look up Mack vs US. It was 7 Sheriff's across the US who sued the government over the Brady Bill...AND WON.

Educate yourself. Protect yourself. Do NOT rely on anyone...ESPECIALLY THE GOVT to take care of you. If I as a woman cannot stand on my own... I don't deserve to stand at all.

Sorry, one more thing...
 

Telling me that I don't need a high powered rifle or AR15 because its not used for hunting and thats not what the 2nd Amendment states....

The 2A never said that the right to bear arms was for hunting only.

Are you also telling me that a musket, a single shot rifle, an 8 shot pump, a revolver with 5 rounds can't kill someone also? Stop calling larger guns or guns with larger magazines killing machines. EVERY GUN IS DESIGNED TO KILL, that is the purpose of a gun...it is used to protect. And if your idea of using/owning a gun is to use it ONLY to hurt someone...slow them down, stop them from doing something bad to you or your family...then your not (in my opinion) owning a gun for the right reasons. You have to be prepared to go all the way if you are in a situation where your life or the life of a loved one depends on it.

ahhh fricken men...ah errr woman.

thank you.

I wish the government would get a clue, but they do. They want us unarmed. They are going at this head first. Similar to invading Iraq. Its an agenda.

It seems has been the plan all along. Keep the country in fear of the big bad gun and the media is just spewing along.

BTW, if you want to fight....support Calguns.net they have done so much to help us in the gun world.

Well spoken... err written!

I am very fortunate that my wife is as aware and awake as you are. We carry, we practice, we talk about situations and doing what needs to be done. My wife will not be bullied or go quietly. I have seen it myself and know her resolve.

All you guys need to make the effort to help your significant other be prepared.


Jeff-

Will you marry me??

In todays paper.... Woman has to shoot home intruder after he stalks her thru THREE locked doors...


It's also a good reason Cops have mostly stopped carrying .38 --- it's kind of a useless caliber. Sorry. I've had LOTS of discussion with police about "the right" caliber for protection.





By Jeff Black, Staff Writer, NBC News


The recording of a 911 call made during a home invasion in Georgia reveals a chilling scene in which a husband coaches his wife -- home alone with her twin 9-year-old children -- to shoot a determined intruder.


The intruder used a crowbar to bust into the house last Friday and at first intended to rob the suburban Atlanta home in Loganville but shifted his focus to hunting down Melinda Herman and her son and daughter, Walton County investigators told NBC station WXIA in Atlanta.
The family had fled through three locked doors, into a bathroom and then to an upstairs crawl space, but the intruder busted the doors open to stalk the family, police said.



As the incident transpired, husband Donnie Herman was in Atlanta and had his wife on one phone line and the 911 operator on the other, according to the recording, obtained by WXIA and the Atlanta Journal- Constitution.

“Do you hear him? Is he in the house? He’s in the house,” Donnie Herman says.
“Melinda, if he opens that door, you shoot him, you understand.”
“She has a weapon?” asks the dispatcher. “What type of weapon?”
“She has a .38,” Donnie Herman said.
The 911 operator tells him that officers were on the way.
“She shot him. She’s shooting him, she’s shooting him.”
"OK," the dispatcher responds.
"Shoot him again! Shoot him!" Donnie Herman yells, later telling the dispatcher “She shot him, a lot.”
Herman tells the dispatcher he heard a lot of screaming. But it was seven agonizing minutes before he found out that his family was OK, WXIA reported.
Melinda Herman told police that she started shooting when the man opened the door to the crawl space. He pleaded with her to stop, but she kept firing until she was out of bullets, she told police. She then fled to a neighbor's house with her children.
The family is still shaken by what happened.
"Just like I told her that night,” Walton County Sheriff’s Capt. Greg Hall told WXIA. “Ya know, there's right and there's wrong and then there's not natural, and it's not natural for people to have to shoot people, so it is going to bother you ..."
The National Rifle Association tweeted a link about the shooting, apparently using it as an example of responsible gun ownership.
And Sheriff Joe Chapman told The Associated Press that he was proud of the way she handled the incident.
"This lady decided that she wasn't going to be a victim, and I think everyone else looks at this and hopes they have the courage to do what she done," Chapman said Wednesday.
The alleged intruder, identified as Paul Slater, 32, of Atlanta, was shot five times. He remained at a hospital.

I know this is about guns and all. However, this line pisses me off almost as much.

The ALLEGED Intruder? No. he was THE Intruder. No if's, no possibilities. He was there, in the house, breaking in, and being shot.

He may have the right to prove himself not guilty, but given the circumstances, he is 100% guilty at the scene of the crime. This is the kind of crap that the US Needs to get away from. This is the kind of crap (among other things) that is ruining our nation. They are giving him the chance to not be held accountable for his own actions, and to find his way to innocence through some loop hole in the system.

Next thing you know, the woman defending herself will be the guilty party and sentenced somehow.

It just... argh. :willy:

An email I recieved today from Guns America. Action this please:

Quick Links:

Find and Contanct your Representative in the US House by Zip Code:
http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/

Contact Your Senators :
http://www.senate.gov/

To Read and Comment on this Article at GunsAmerica:
http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/we-s...your-contacts/

There is an old adage, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." This week the media is trying to convince us that support for Senator Feinstein's anti-gun legislation is weak, but if we are not PRO-ACTIVE, the legislation will pass as written. You will wake up just in time for SHOT Show with new laws that make your AR-15 a Class 3 weapon. This means that if you want to keep your tactical rifles, you will have to register them, pay a $5-$200 tax, and notify the government if you intend to take them out of state. You will also completely waive your 4th Amendment rights to reasonable search and seizure. ATF will have the right to knock on your door and inspect the weapons anytime they want. You will also see an end to standard capacity magazines. This isn't a threat. It isn't political posturing. Diane Feinstein and the anti-gun machine have already introduced the legislation, and it will be rammed through Congress and signed by the President if we do not Stand As One and act today.

Please contact your legislators immediately, and post the links above to your discussion boards. Also please contact all of the gun companies you do business with and ask them to take action now and don't sit on their resources in reaching out to the gunowners of America. All of them have mailing lists, and all of them are sitting on them pretending that they don't have any responsibility, while doing record business in the stuff that is going to be banned or regulated. This 2nd Amendment crisis is not about KA-CHING. We call out to Midway USA, Gunbroker, Brownells, Sportsmen's Guide, Cabelas and all the firearms and accessory manufacturers. If you have a list, use it. We must Stand As One if we are to defeat this threat to our freedom. Aside from one NRA-ILA email notifying us about the legislation, even the NRA has been silent. Facebook isn't enough. Our testing has shown that the effectiveness of Facebook is very small. You MUST EMAIL YOUR LISTS THIS WEEK before the legislation gains public support. We are about to enter a dark time in 2nd Amendment freedom and political wrangling from the NRA isn't going to cut it this far out from an election. The legislators need to hear from us, that we will work to defeat them in their next election bid.

This is not an alarmist position. The anti-gun machine was prepared for this opportunity, and they are very well organized. Senator Feinstein herself admitted that she has been working since last year to investigate all of the loopholes from the last "Assault Weapons Ban" and eliminate them. That means that this time there will be no thumbhole stocks, no sawed off flashhiders, no California "bullet buttons." It is almost as though the anti-gunners allowed the old ban to end in hopes of making a better one this time. This legislation is extremely comprehensive and if it passes, every tactical rifle in America will instantly become a Class 3 weapon. No new guns will be produced at all, effectively shuttering every AR-15 manufacturer in the country.

Don't be fooled by the pollsters this time, for or against. They key point in this legislation is that we are more than a year from the start of the next campaigns for the mid-term elections. The anti-gun lobbyists, as you read this, are contacting the House and Senate members trying to convince them that American voters are not going to punish them for voting for new and sweeping gun control. Few politicians actually stand for anything, so how we react is paramount to defeating this legislation. You must notify your legislators that you are watching their vote and that you will work to defeat them in their next election bid if they vote for any new gun legislation that comes out of the Sandy Hook shootings. Over 500 people have been killed in Chicago this year, the most gun restrictive city in the USA. We will not sacrifice our 2nd Amendment rights because the media is up in arms about the slaughter of 20 white kids by a mentally disturbed individual who stole his mommy's guns.

Also don't think that the Supreme Court is going to help us on this one. The legislation clearly identifies the approach to grandfathered weapons as a tax, and the Supreme Court has recently dealt with this issue on Obamacare, and refused to strike it down. Our swing vote, the George W. Bush appointed Justice Stevens, has already demonstrated that he will not strike down major legislation from the bench if he can find a way to avoid it, and this tax approach to our guns won't even make the Supreme Court. You may think that the original 2nd Amendment guaranteed us the right to the same guns at the government (muskets at the time), but there is plenty of Federal case law from the 1986 machinegun ban that has laid the groundwork for this Feinstein bill. It will pass, and it will stand.

If we Stand As One this week, the legislation will be stopped. Please contact your reps in the House and your Senators today. Mobilize your friends and family. Email everyone in your contact list. And most importantly post the direct links above (not to GunsAmerica) to every single discussion board, blog or forum to which you frequent.

As we have tried to explain already, GunsAmerica is all alone out here in this fight. Please encourage the gun websites you do business with to join our Stand As One campaign and email their mailing lists to fight this game changing legislation. We are all NRA Life and Endowment members here at GunsAmerica, yet nothing has come from NRA. Our competitors Gunbroker have sent nothing, apparently content with the spike in business. Midway USA has a huge list, yet nothing has come from them. Brownells is in the news for selling 3 1/2 years of magazines in one day, yet nothing has come from their email list. And worst of all, Cheaper Than Dirt actually announced that they would stop selling guns online, supporting the public opinion against our guns. Sportsman's Guide even had the nerve to send a happy go lucky "After Christmas" sale email on AR-15 accessories. Don't boycott these companies. Contact these companies! We have to stand together or we are going to lose. Now is not the time to argue and sit on our resources of huge email lists to America's gun enthusiasts. We Stand As One!

Some of you got upset at us calling Alex Jones a turd in the punchbowl of 2nd Amendment freedom, but it is the truth. The conspiracy theory websites do not stand with us on this one, though they claim that they do. A lot of young people are caught up in a conspiracy theory mindset that is preventing them from seeing the forest through the trees. 2nd Amendment rights were never about hunting, and there has always been an out in the open "conspiracy" against them. if you espouse big government control and oversight of all Americans, you obviously don't want free thinkers to be armed. It doesn't take a conspiracy theorist to figure out that Diane Feinstein wants to watch and control all Americans, and disarming us is an important step for her and her ilk. Alex Jones and his gang may seem well intentioned, but what they really want is internet traffic. They want to sell you the movies and the water purifiers and the survival food and the male enhancement pills, PERIOD. Guns are just the latest thing on the conspiracy theory bandwagon because it "gets the buzz going." They may be gun loving Americans at heart, but what is driving them today is the almighty but ever weakening $$$ dollar.

Diane Feinstein doesn't care how much survival food you have in your bunker . But what she does have is the actual power to halt the production of an entire class of firearms and magazines, and she plans to do that, this week. Get out of your armchair and get into action.

This quote from a recent article in the Russian newspaper Pravda urging us to not give up our 2nd Amendment freedom says a great deal:

Do not be fooled by a belief that progressives, leftists hate guns. Oh, no, they do not. What they hate is guns in the hands of those who are not marching in lock step of their ideology. They hate guns in the hands of those who think for themselves and do not obey without question. They hate guns in those whom they have slated for a barrel to the back of the ear.

We must Stand As One!

GunsAmerica
Where America Buys and Sells Guns



This is an official GunsAmerica Email Notification.

Ok I'm not much of a conspiracy theory kinda guy. But this who reporting of our news on this subject has bothered me. Then I saw this video on facebook today.

Some stuff seems like a stretch, but some of it is very valid points.

I was at the Seattle PD range today -- this is also a members only gun store. They sold out of 80 AR-15 style rifles they had in stock in 3 days after the talking heads on tv blabbered on about banning assault style rifles. There is ONE hanging on the wall -- which is now "UP FOR BID" -- you must submit a bid and the highest bidder will be the purchaser. This is the only one left for sale. Bidding started at $950

They have a ONE limit on magazines (they are not CLIPS as commonly called but that's just a misuse of a term that people don't understand and is now common practice) -- they have sold out of most and were told by the suppliers that they are not taking any more orders.

They are also sold out of .223 rounds

This is only important because this is a POLICE shooting range and member only shop. While they do allow "others" -- the others have to be vetted by a member. It's not open to the general public.

OMG what a sales boon this has been for retailers and manufacturers!!

Note they have plenty of suppressors in stock... nobody is talking about banning them. :willy: :lol:

Probably cause you have to jump throught flaming hoops to buy one. I'd rather just make one from scratch.
Anti's will never figure out that bans and restrictions just increases how many people own them. This weekends gun show was huge. Probably more than the show before BOH's first election.

Wanna go halvies to buy Bushmaster? The should have a stellar year. Average price for a stripped lower receiver is $400-800 dollars. I saw a Noveske stripped N2 going for $1100. Holy crapski.

Considering a situation like Sandy Hook I was very surprised there was not one survivor or victim that was transported and later died in a hospital. How does one shooter in a chaotic environment have a 100% instant kill ratio? I'm well above average with a handgun and there is no way IMO.

I can't recall seeing any Shady Hook crime scene photo's?

This is as convincing as the facts surrounding the JFK assassination. Having toured the book depository and grounds with a critical eye the official account is simply impossible. Remington XP-100 fireball from the storm grate in the curb............autopsy photo's retouched to conceal the rear exit wound.

Motives.............political leverage.

Sadly 80% of the people are sheep following the Sheppard to be sheared.

While discussing the sold out condition of the AR style rifles... there were 3 or 4 other customer/members in the shop (it's very small) and 3 guys behind the counter (all police or retired police).... a discussion broke out about "the ban"... these are POLICEMEN! Not one of them was FOR a ban of any kind.

REALLY?? These guys work the streets - arresting bad guys - and they weren't for a ban of any kind. Why? To a man - each voiced that making something illegal was of no use and was no deterrent.

I believe the shooter in Sandy Hook never had an AR. He used all handguns.
They said the AR was found in the trunk of his stolen car.

As far as the tax goes. It is already in place, it's called a Form 4. It is used for short barreled and suppressed rifles. One problem with it is that the Head LEO has to sign off on the form for it to be approved. In my County, our Sheriff refuses to sign one. But there are ways to work around him.

I do not agree with it in it's current form either, but it would be really easy for the fed to mandate all semi autos into this law.

From the over head video it wasn't even an AR type. Looked like a Saiga 12 gauge to me. First reports by the Sargent on scene said that the AR was found in the trunk. Then later reports stated the AR was found inside along with 4 hand guns. How does a Sargent mistake this detail?

I'm trying to stay neutral on this but there's so many skewed details and now the incident has pretty much dropped off the radar and momentum has switched to banning efforts. Perfect storm?

I wouldn,t argue with that , especially the last bit . I have posted some comments earlier but as iam from the UK and that i do not feel the need to arm myself .I don,t own or wish to own a gun or know anything about them ,i shall not comment about guns any more as i couldn,t careless about them . In the UK Piers Morgan is a well known arse and we are happy that he prefers to live in the states instead of on our violent little island . He is what we call a **** stirrer as he gives the pot a shake to see what floats to the top , the best thing to do is ignore him .
As in the video our problem is violent crime but its mainly the sort you get in town centers after the bars have shut , idiots who can,t handle drink . A few years back our far sighted no i mean short sighted government decided to bring in 24 hour opening times for bars , a la Europe . The hope was that allowing people longer to drink meant they were less likely to rush down 10 pints before closing time at 11pm and stagger about causing trouble. Well i don,t need to explain what happens when you allow a country that has a drinking habit like ours longer to drink . So our average town centers are at best to be treated with caution during the early hours in order to avoid drunks .
As a species we are naturally violent and we live in a violent society ,we are gready , vain and sadisitic and i see very little hope that that will change . We have caused far more injusticies than we can ever hope to right .
As we are meant to be friends i will tell you what our two governments do to our friends . Diego Garcia is a US military base in the Indian ocean and the island that its on is a British colony with a local population , its position makes it handy for bombing raids on the middle east and Asia . We removed the inhabitants years ago and packed them off to another island .During the Iraq war Tony Blairs government whilst using his so called ethical foreign policy , past a law that stripped the people of Diego Garcia of any rights to their island . Only recently have the law courts overturned this , they discribed Tony Blairs act as the most despicable act performed by a British government . The truth is that whilst liberating Iraq the British government disowned the people of Diego Garcia of their home , a very shameful act by a government and where was this in the press , i guess they couldn.t hack that phone .
Don,t trust your government do not listen to the biased press and don,t let people stir you up . Pete

anything to rile the masses. Pearl Harbor, World trade, Fiscal cliff....who knows what Governments are capable of? I think if we all put the glasses on we wouldn't like it.

Like Pete from across the pond says. Question everything.

:wow:

There was 2 that died at the hospital. I know the nurse that was on call at the ER when they arrived.

Its an active investigation I'm not sure that is commonly released?

600 Kids, Hundreds more parents, police, paramedics, and other first responder one could only guess it was pure chaos there. There was such a demand for information that to much detail was given to fast. I would also bet that they limited the scene exposure due to its obvious emotional impact on people.

Its easy to draw these conspiracy lines when you're outside the community but when its your community and the names and faces are people you know its really hard to say they are "conspiring" unless the last 30 years was all an act.

Pass me the Reynolds Wrap.

^^^^^^^^^^^ totally agree with that!


:cheers:

Thanks for the information and condolences. I live only a few miles from the Kip Kinkle/Thurston HS shooting and understand the community impact. I've been on a police ride along that involved a potential suicidal shooter and SWAT team deployment so I have a little insight on that front. I'm not trying to be insensitive in any way. As noted I try to stay neutral but the media bias and theatrics makes it tough some times. :thumbsup:

Thanks and I didn't take it as being insensitive.:thumbsup:
This event like most recent events are being exploited for all its worth. The shock factor is high and fresh in our minds, and the media is in the middle looking for page visits and likes. There is no "one answer / action" fixes all.

As one who enjoys this hobby this makes it really hard to participate when its a $1/round online now.....

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/673...gressive-press

Works for me in four calibers anyway. :unibrow:

That's why I hedge ammo when it's cheap. An average target outing we go through at least 600-700 rounds depending on how many people want to try the different firearms. .30 cents a round if you buy in bulk.

I understand the loss but you have to admit law spokesman and the media has totally fowled the situation up bad.

I hedged too but I let it slide and got to the point where i don't want to dip into the reserves to go play.

Yes I agree I think there was unneeded pressure and an expectation of live updates which lead to some of the misinformation. On the flip side how bad would the tin foil theories be if there was no communication other than "its an active case"?