Agree.... 80 years is a pretty long time. But if you started to invest like you should have -- at 21 --- and you retired at 65 -- and you lived until you're 90... that's 69 years... so we'll split the difference between 50 and 80 year terms and stick to 69 year terms from now on. :twak: :lol:

haha Greg I knew you were going to say that.

My other stocks are PG,MO,PFE,NU,VZ and UPS. So if I do MCD,KO and HD
I hit almost all sectors. It just fells better mentally to see 150 stares of a stock vs 20, 50, 25 lol I just got to get over that.

This is in a 401k so I'm in these for the long haul.

Thanks again

Oh I totally get it.... I like stocks in big numbers and I tend to concentrate... but I'm not building a portfolio... I've already got it! HA!!

Okay - split the difference and buy TWO... 3K each name.

Nice portfolio by the way. You're doing really nice job.

My thoughts then on Home Depot (HD). I heard the CEO say they would only build 3 stores in the US this year --- the days of adding 500 stores is over. So this is a mature company that will do well if building is good and home sales are good.


McDonalds (MCD) -- stable -- asian growth... a history of raising the dividend payout. Did I mention stable? That's why I own it. It pays a paltry dividend - so I offset that with higher payers - but you guys shouldn't be trying to do this YET.... so just get your portfolios balanced and you'll be fine. I'd buy MCD on the dips -- it's range bound between low 90's -- and high 90's... buy when it's down 94 or so.


Coke (KO) -- The WORLD drinks Coke.... Warren Buffet gets a dividend from Coke annually that equals his original investment! Wouldn't we all like to be in that position?? Coke for me is like MikeyD's.... it's stable... and makes me sleep well at night... and I know my money is going to "be there". I like that.


Thus ---- the real question? How could you go wrong regardless of picking one - two or all three of these great companies? And if you don't buy one of them this year - buy it next year or the year after!

I'll give you that in an investment scenario. The big factor is compound interest with stocks. That's what makes it a landslide for stocks.

100% Personal Responsibility.. See my healthy 101 thread for details. ha ha ha

Question about limit orders?

Are you guy's putting in the last traded price? How much below? %

Let's say I'm interested in purchasing 75 shares of KO. The last trade price was $39.40. What would you put your limit price at $38.89 because that was the after hour price?

Thanks
John

Okay -- so this will not be easy to say so that you "get it" but I'll try - just don't take offense because in order to make it NICE -- would take a page of explanation.

It just doesn't make a hill of beans doing a limit order for 75 shares --- when you do the math --- if you save 10 cents --- you're talking 7.50 total on the buy.... in the long run --- that's just not what is going to make or break an investment.

I'm buying 20 to 50 THOUSAND shares --- limit orders are then "real money" when you do that 10 cent math....

Having said that --- I'll answer your question --- I put in the lowest price of the day -- and do a day only trade. So if it's not filled - I can redo it the next day.

Hey Greg,
Thanks for your reply. I know my purchases are really small compared to yours. I thought I read on another page to always use a limit order and I was curious to how people came up with what they wanted to bid.

I guess if you are buying in small quanities to just buy at market price and get the shares.

At least now I know later when I'm buying 20-50 thousand shares to use limit order with the lowest price of the day!! ;)

Thanks for all your help

My point wasn't to brag about the size of mine versus yours -- it was merely a reference of when a limit order is important and why they're used. There's real money to be saved when you're upping the ante a bit -- and on something in the 100 share range it's just really not very important and I feel that what IS important is just to get going and investing.... because most people don't have the time to be chasing shares daily etc. That one day - when you don't get your order filled --- and the next day the shares run a buck a piece! Now what did you "save" -- you just cost yourself a buck a share by trying to be "cute" and save 10 cents a share. Of course it goes the other way too -- but you get my point.

The other thing that people do is try to "time" the "EX" date of a dividend paying stock because the shares generally trade down the amount of the dividend being paid... thus you effectively pick up the dividend by just getting the discounted price that day ---- the problem with this is A) you have to wait for that date --- and in the meantime the shares may have run more than you're trying to "save" --- and B) once again - do you really have the time to spend chasing this small amount (in total dollars). If you're trading big blocks of shares 1000 or so per - then maybe - but not on 100 or 200 shares...

Real Estate
 

So since we were discussing real estate investing --- I view this "news" both great but also really worrying. Demand for any product - regardless of what that is - has a ripple effect.... Housing demand will make us feel good IF we already own a house... but will also lead to higher interest rates... Which is good if you're already retired... and not so good if you want to buy something with borrowed money. LOL


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...ven-years.html

..... And as long as we're talking about how to make some money - whether it's for retirement - or for further investing etc. Rich people DO think differently. They DO live differently. Money DOES make Money. The problem with most people is that they don't do anything with what they have. Rather - they figure they have nothing so how could they possibly ever get anywhere.

This thread started out with a couple simple questions.... and what some of us have tried to do with it is to take a little of the mystery out of "the stock market" etc.

I stumbled on to this book -- and have not read it - but have read many excerpts from it.... and what this book really is - and what I've read - is about how to THINK. That's what I've been harping on in this entire thread -- not what "I" think YOU should do - but rather - how you should think about investing... and then you need to take it from there. Whether it's rental real estate - or stocks - or starting a business.... whatever.


The book is about the DIFFERENCES in how people think -- the "rich" vs "the average person". I don't particularly like "labels".... but it is what it is. For $14 a copy it might be eye opening for THINKING about investing or seeing opportunity that might present itself.



http://www.amazon.com/Rich-People-Th.../dp/0975500341

I agree Greg. If you have $10 bucks, turn it into $12. The common philosophy is that if you don't have much, you can't become much. Most of us have to start at the bottom and work our way up the ladder. Moral of the story, if you don't make good decisions with little, you will never have a lot. And it leaks into every aspect of life, not just money.

I turned my son from a spender into a saver. He couldn't hold onto a dollar to save his life.

I took him to the bank, opened an account, they gave him a cool green pig, and they matched his first $20 deposit, along with another $20 for his straight A's and community service. The have a cool coin counter machine he likes to work. He has over $88 and is all about "saving" and going to the bank now.. not bad for a 6 yr old who's bombarded with cool stuff to buy.

Saving, then investing, right?

A friend of mine (whos very monetarily wealthy btw) said if you count your pennies, the dollar's add up.

When i refer people to this thread (about 20 who are serious) I tell them "its a thread on HOW to buy, not WHAT to buy"

Be consistant.
Diversify.
Dont invest and forget (i did for 15 years, now my bottom hurts lol).
Start early.

And most of all, KISS (keep it simple stupid) *ask me how i know this one? cause i tend to overcomplicate everything in my life, ahhh, the job of an analyst...

And Todd, since you see this everyday in your job, is living within your means....

I was flipping radio stations last night on my commute home, looking for the MNF game. I couldn't believe I heard an ad for obtaining a home equity line of credit. "Bay Area housing prices are up an incredible 20% recently, call us to see if you qualify to borrow against your home to get money in your pocket!" :confused18:


I'm also happy to report I have a friend who I have HOOKED on THINKING about money and investing. He's turned the corner in a matter of a few short weeks and I know it will positively affect him for the rest of his life. Feels good to spread the knowledge!

Another good, although kind of dull, read

http://www.amazon.com/Millionaire-Mi...aire+next+door

That is one major change I've seen over the last few years. People are more likely to buy economically today. Many have learned a few lessons or were conservative from the start. I still get the calls once in a while from someone with three nickels that thinks they should buy a home.

History always repeats itself. :D I've already seen some noise of sub prime loans. There is always a hare waiting in the wings.

So here's why LIMIT ORDERS don't always work the way you think/want them to.


This morning I thought I'd add 3000 shares of British Petroleum Prudhoe Bay (BPT) to the 5000 shares I already own... I entered a limit order at $86.70 against an ASK of $86.96 --- last trade was showing as $86.75..... so I'm a nickel under the last trade and .26 under the ask price.

By the time I checked my order status - the shares were trading at $86.95

So had I just entered a "Market order" I might have scooped up some shares... as it was --- SO far I'm going begging and my limit order is sitting with only 100 of the shares being "filled" (bought at my limit price).

So here's my point --- there were shares trading at $86.75 (the last print) and I chose to bid under that --- and while trying to be "cute" -- the shares ran another .20

I canceled the order. Why? Because I don't buy on UP days. I'll wait.


I do this stuff EVERY DAY -- ALL DAY.... It's my first love and a hobby. I've been doing this all day every day for years... MY POINT?? You guys DON'T... and I'm buying larger amounts of shares -- you are not.... is it really worth your time to babysit the market for .20 on 100 shares (a whopping $20). And by the way -- I just showed that messing around probably cost me that $20 because the stock ran away from me.

Now --- I'll stay on top of it and I will get my shares eventually -- and before the next X date. But would you?? Or would you get busy and forget all about it -- miss the X date (thus missing a $2.00 a share dividend). This is where you need to learn about YOURSELF and how you invest.

If you're the type that would have got busy and forgot all about the shares --- thus the buy -- and you'd put in a "cute" limit order -- and now you just missed out on "A") the run and "B") the $200 dividend payment for the quarter.... was the $20 "savings" you were trying to get worth it?


Just sayin'

I have to chime in here -- on the whole "living within your means".





It's FAR FAR easier to live within your means if you have plenty of "means". LOL


I've had this discussion many times with many of my friends. I've always been very open about money - money management - and discussions like this aren't and shouldn't be embarrassing. They ARE embarrassing if you are embarrassed by your own personal situation. By that I mean --- if you're one of those people that APPEAR to be doing well.... driving the new Audi - New house - out to dinner all the time - etc.... and your cards are about maxed out... and if you lost your job next week -- you couldn't make your next house payment... YEAH -- you should probably not be discussing your finances without being embarrassed. You're EGO is driving you to bankruptcy. You need help but your ego would never allow you to actually get some.


I'm saying this hypothetically -- to "America" -- not to anyone here. The people here are (I presume) working to help themselves and improve their financial situation.



I've never ever had anyone tell me their cards are maxed and they can barely make the minimum payment. EVERYONE always makes the blanket statement "I always pay my cards in full every month". While I'd really like to believe it - and really hope that it's true.... the majority of people just ARE NOT doing that. They are managing their money by keeping their PAYMENTS in check -- and in the meantime are paying 18 or more percent interest.

GUYS ---- REALLY???


To the investors here -- how many of you would L - O - V - E to be earning 18% dividend on your investments???? HOLY COW --- I'D BE RICH!!!!

Yeah. I wonder the same. I listen to a lot of Dave Ramsey's radio show. Keeps my thought process in check. I've always handled money very well. Until I got married. The other half didnt handle money well at ALL. It was a big issue. Eventually we divorced, i ate a quite large CC bill on that one (that wasnt even MY stuff). But oh well. From that point forward, I've vowed to never carry a balance on my CC. 5 years later, I havent paid an interest fee yet! But, it can be a tricky game that some people can't manage. Me, i personally pay off each purchase a day or two after it hits my card. i dont wait for the bill to come at the end of the month and get surprised!

On a side note, me and my current GF (future spouse!? ;) ) have taken some of Ramsey's ideas even further and have implemented emergency funds (which first resulted in her getting herself completely out of CC Debt). Now we have monthly budgets, savings accounts, and purchased a house this year (albeit, with a mortgage, but thats OK).

We're well on our way to be financially fit, in the short term AND long term (retirement). Plus the communication level is MUCH greater than the 1st go around. LOL

First of all Albert.... AWESOME!!


Second -- there's absolutely NOTHING WRONG with a mortgage!

What people do wrong with a mortgage is to repeatedly refi - taking out equity to spend... and lengthen the time in which to pay it back!

The entire exercise should be to retire with a paid for house!! (unless you're retirement far exceeds what normal people are going to collect in those years).


The "ISSUE" is spending more than you can really afford to spend -- the CC allows this - and on a repeated basis. I think a NORMAL use of a CC is -- perhaps an emergency repair - or something unexpected -- and then a guy has to make some payments at those high interest rates.... BUT that is where you should have some dough saved for such emergencies. NOT BEING ABLE TO SAVE is the big mistake -- and that should be he first clue that someone is spending too much.

I have a buddy -- married -- old like me and retired now --- but he's a millionaire -- with a paid for house (millionaire NOT including the value of his house).... and the couple together never made 100 grand a year. He saved a 1/3rd of his income every year since he got his first job. The proverbial "pay yourself first". Called him today to come help me with the trailer --- and he can't -- why? Because they're out cruising around in his new F-250 and Airstream... ENJOYING RETIREMENT.

They spent years NOT having all the new stuff -- stayed in the same house etc -- so that he could spend years enjoying life later. GOOD FOR HIM!!!

Good job, Albert.

You're very correct about CC bills and life style, Greg. Somewhere in this thread, I think I read the comment "Just because you can pay for it doesn't mean you can afford it". I like that comment. I also think most people don't get it. If it weren't for the points that I get, I wouldn't use my CC. But I like it when the CC company pays me to use their card :D

Trey - I (WE) use the hell out of the credit card... in fact we are massive chargers.... but it still gets paid off every month regardless of how astounding the balance is.


Here's the part that busts me up --- someone that makes payments on revolving charge cards --- will have a HIGHER credit score than the guy that pays it off.

To me - that's the stupidest thing EVER.

We'll, i have to manage my money, my wife's spending, my employee's, and i dont like managing.

Case in point, Tuesday nite my wifey and i go out to dinner at Wente (for our 25th wedn anniversary) nice dinner, $169 meal. Great stuff. my brother gave us a 150$ gift card about a year ago as a thank you for watchin his two kids while he and his wife are in New York, they do the same trip every year, and we love watchin the kids...

So i pull out my debit card to pay the $19 balance plus the tip and the card is declined, i'm embarrassed. I turn to Pam and i'm like, um honey...??? She smiles and says "oops, i forgot to go to the bank" i was forgiving as usual, plus we had 3000in checks in her purse, 700$ cash in her purse and i had like 350 cash on me....so i have to have more of an eagle eye on "our" finances....it was a good (but embarrassing) reminder for me

I had a friend of mine i worked with for years and he used to always say "i hate money" and my dad (whom we worked for) used to say, "yah, till your out of it"

We gotta manage it, and those of us with partners, we have to watch out for them as well. Money is the #1 cause of divorce in the U.S.

A buddy of mine and I have accountability meetings on the last Thursday of the month. We are wired similarly and we both benefit greatly. He tends to be financially driven to the point of out of balance. Today part of our discussion was about goals. He's a big producer at Northwestern Mutual and he mentioned some of his peers trying to influence him to set huge goals. Way beyond what is achievable in a short period in my opinion. I could tell it really had his wheels spinning seeing just how much money he could reel in.

I told him it was a bad idea. Don't sell your soul to get what you want. He has 3 young boys and a wife. His cholesterol is 220, he could use a few more work outs and better nutrition. He doesn't NEED to make more money, his energy would benefit him in other areas of his life. Franky, areas that need more work and will lead to great payoffs.

I hope he progresses in his business but not by moving the balance beam to far. Money is important but not at the cost of others. Especially your family and friends.

Totally agree Todd... it's all about BALANCE.


We all seem to struggle with balance...

Ahhhh, well spoken "Danielson"...."now paint the fence" (ya gotta know this movie)

Great point. I think it was Rockefeller who said when asked "how much is enough money?"........."just one more dollar".

Sadly --- somehow that old school way of thinking turned upside-down and became "can I spend just one more dollar".

My parents, and Grandparents, sole goal was to pay off their house -- and pay cash for a car. Mind you, saving for retirement didn't used to be quite so important because companies had PENSIONS and they also had Social Security which I think was larger by virtue of inflation (in other words inflation has eroded buying power and SS had NOT kept up).

Just look at governments around the world... all they do anymore is raise the debt ceiling. There's never any discussion about cutting spending to balance the books. Just spend more. There's no throttle modulation at all.

It would be nice if PEOPLE could do that. Right? Oh honey - we're out of money so we'll just increase our own credit card limit. Never having to pay the money back - just pay the interest only. No worries.

Anyone invested in health insurance stocks? :/

http://www.infowars.com/insurance-gi...h-law-cash-in/

This whole thread has inspired me to start taking a deeper look at my finances and spending. I'm laying out a plan to get out of debt and then take that money that WAS going into CC's and toys and starting an investment fund (after I have my emergency account setup.) Figure I'm young and dumb and it's time to wise up. Retiring when I'm my dad's age sounds like fun and if it means not building another car right now, I'm OK with that.

GREAT!!!!!!

If you need a little extra motivation, check out Dave Ramsey's book "Total Money Makeover". It's a little helpful "guide" to setting up your plan of attack to get out of debt and become money successful. I also listen to his free daily "radio show" over the internet, in the form of a "Pod Cast". You can do it from his website or from your mobile device and such. Hearing other people's pain/issues lets you know your not alone, and giving you hope that there's light at the end of that tunnel. Good luck man. its tough, but SO worth it!

Just living stingy and not having anything will never work.... it's like dieting and having to only eat tomatoes for weeks on end. You'll just go right back to steak and potatoes.


So re: not building another car


Building a car is a HOBBY... but the hobby doesn't dictate you have to have a 416 Mast motor and the latest greatest suspension ever made.

Build a car - over time - maintaining the hobby aspect of the build with parts that are within YOUR budget.

Retirement isn't about having to save 60% of your annual salary.... particularly if you're relatively young. Set your savings rate with a GOAL in mind.... factoring in TIME.... and factoring in what you really think you'll need to retire in a reasonably comfortable lifestyle.

Most people don't need 100k annually to retire (just tossing a number out there - because that number needs to factor in inflation). If you strip out the things you should NOT have to pay when you're retired - house payments - new car payments - etc.... You should really just have utilities/basic living expenses/health insurance/property taxes etc.

You'll get the AARP special at Denny's when going out for dinner (just kidding here!).


My point is that retirement should not be such a daunting exercise that you need to live like a hermit for 30 years to obtain.

People that live in high cost urban areas might need to plan to sell their largest asset (the house) and move to a lower cost. If you sell a house that's paid for for 350 grand and move to a city where you can get a nicer house for half that --- that goes a long way in boosting the net cash to invest to make retirement income etc.

Thanks Greg

What I meant was that I'm going to take what I was going to spend building the next one and put it into investments. I have a couple cool cars now that should hold me over, but I'm going to hold off on any major builds for a while. I'm going to keep tweaking on the cars I have now though and I'm learning to do more fabrication and engineering on my own as well.

I think part of it is just proving to myself that I can. Since I was 14 I've gone from one car to the next, pouring my heart, soul, and wallet into each one and it's time to take a little break and setup my future, so I can build the cars I want the way I want.

My plans after I retire (in like 40yrs) aren't like most people's. I just want enough to be able to spend time with my family, and build some cars. If I won the lotto tomorrow, I'd put in my 2 weeks, and then build cars with my dad for the rest of my life. I don't want anything more than that.

I'm only 26 and have (hopefully) a long life ahead of me. Taking a few years off from major work on the toys might be just what I need right now.

Smart move Matt. I agree with Greg, set some financial goals and make a real plan to achieve them by a certain age. Put it in writing and make a spreadsheet. At 26, you can set yourself up BIG TIME if you start now. The only way there will come a day when you can be with family and build cars is to be financially independent vs. blowing all your money on cars for the next 30 years. I also agree with Greg that you don't have to be a hermit, invest first, spend 2nd.

I'd start with a Roth IRA and build from there.

Exactly my situation here too Matt. :thumbsup:

McDonalds (MCD)
 

This thread has never been about what stock to own --- and rarely mentions specific stocks except to use them as an example. We have to have examples occasionally... but it's a real trap === and completely defeats the thread === when it turns into a "pump and dump" or stock recommendation thread -- vs -- a discussion of just general terms and more about how to think etc.

However -- in the "example" use -- I have always promoted stocks of companies that you know and use -- and places or things that you personally have some familiarity with etc. You've heard me say that I bought Apple (AAPL) stock after coming home from the mall where it was the only store that had a line of people trying to buy stuff and that we had 4 or 5 of those iPod things laying around the house.... That was back when it was $85 by the way... I was out of it at $300.

Yesterday I had some errands to run -- little Metric bolts and nuts used in the Lotus (I have stock in the shop of SS SAE nuts and bolts but nothing in metric).... so off to Tacoma Screw with a shopping list. I was hungry and there was a McDonalds on the street so in I went for some quick breakfast. Full disclosure - I own 3000 shares of MCD....

Now -- the reason I have said to buy the companies you know and like is so that you AS A CONSUMER can gauge FUNDAMENTAL CHANGE.... that is -- you're around the places you actually own -- and can be Johnny on the spot to monitor how you think they're doing -- or even how the overall economy is doing etc IF you just pay attention.

I have to say that I was pretty much appalled at the SERVICE I received during my visit - and that there was nobody in the place except 3 tables of old retired people... my food sucked. I don't eat McDonalds or that kind of food unless I'm on a road trip... so don't visit these kinds of places very often. I own Coke (KO) but don't drink it.... I own Altria (MO) but don't smoke... but I own these companies because they lend stability to my account - they pay a dividend - and the great masses do drink Coke - eat at McDonalds and smoke etc (Especially in Europe!!!).

I guess my point is this -- sometimes you don't just have to know WHEN TO BUY -- Sometimes you have to KNOW WHEN TO SELL... Knowing when to sell is far harder than buying. I've been thinking of selling McDonalds since my visit. It was just horrible food - which makes me avoid another visit.... and I wonder how many other people have had a similar experience. Spotting a trend is key to investing... and a trend isn't always UP... sometimes it's down.

Excellent point(s).. One thing to consider is that there are obviously tens of thousands of these places scattered across the US. The trick is to find out if your bad experience is the new "norm" or if its just that location, or just someones "off day" at that location. If its just that location, you'd obviously think twice before off loading everything. If you see it as a trend across the company, then I'd be really questioning my position in the stock.

Now, we have 3 MCD's in our town of about 70k people (4 if you include the one inside wal-mart) - Roughly 16 sq miles in size. ALL have been renovated within the past 3 years or so (except the one inside Wally, not a whole lot you can do there). Our 3 locations are generally really steadily busy. Perhaps its the "new look" that keeps people coming back? Or perhaps its the service? Not 100% sure. We eat there once or twice a month (two kids under 8, so sometimes we just need a "quick bite" on the go). And most of the time we're happy with our food/service.

Anywho, just my 2c. ;)

The McD's here was torn down just to build a brand new version... that tells me they are doing very well. The owner owns about 5 or 6 locations all in my area. He started out working at one...a true American success story really.

I'm rural midwest where people aren't too concerned with their diet as much...so I think they do pretty well around here. We don't go to there at all though.