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Well they should thank me - cause in the end you can buy a lot more stuff when you actually have some real money! I'm a veritable one man economic firestorm with the amount of car related stuff and activities I do each month. LOL Really though -- this is the truth. You can buy way more stuff when your savings are saving more than you could have on your own. That starts to free up money for the fun stuff. And I've never said don't buy anything… and I know you're just poking me… I say start to factor in your retirement and ignore it at your own peril is all. |
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Extra thanks to you Greg. For someone in your position, to take the time to help all of "us" is an extremely good deed on your part. Kudos to you! |
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They announce a QE taper, and the market jumps UP! Just another friendly reminder from Mr. Market that your crystal ball sucks. :lol:
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When you - or anyone - has the market figured out - let me know - we'll go together and make zillions…. 'cause I've been doing this since 1986 and I'll be damned if I can make sense of it! |
Yep...and there's always a loser (relative to today only) amongst the winners. For me it was Ford's (F) announcement of lower margins. Were it not for that, it would have been a heck of a day!!
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I have 20,000 Ford (F) shares… I bought more yesterday. It's a very small holding for me - but still affected my days paper gain. So here's why --- IF the economy is doing better so much so that the Fed can taper -- then people should be buying more cars. Now if EUROPE would just snap out of their recession (sooner rather than later)… then we'll be clicking on all 8 as they say. Now -- here's your deal and why I pitch this (as will anyone with experience)… a FORD day like today - is why you have to have DIVERSIFICATION --- and no one stock or investment should be more than 5% of your total invested funds. That way - one "disaster" doesn't kill you. You might not like it - but it doesn't kill you. Today was a good eye opener to see why people press that. |
Yeah, it's definitely one of those deals where nothing in the fundamentals about the company or why I own it has changed, so I'm not going to start worrying. I wish I had more uninvested cash to pick up some shares on sale, but I am heavy enough in the one name as it stands that it might not be prudent anyway.
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If you guys remember awhile back -- all the talking heads on TV could discuss was the rising price of GOLD -- and all the predictions were for $2000 an ounce etc… One of our readers was HEAVY into the precious metal. I hope he got out at the top. Today it's trading for about half that prediction.
Okay - I can't predict a thing except that usually in the morning I have to get up and go to the bathroom. That's become pretty predictable…. My comment / post here is not about predictions or right or wrong… it's about the basics of what I've been pounding about day in and day out… THAT IS --- when EVERYONE is talking about something - it's time to RUN FOR THE HILLS -- if you're in whatever they're talking about -- SELL… if you're not in and you're thinking you need to be because everybody but you has made a killing on "it"… DON'T YOU DO IT! See - my belief is - that we're all just pretty average Joe's. We're not really smart enough to see that gold was going to go from $900 to $1800 in a year… we're not smart enough to have foreseen the complete collapse of housing… we're not smart enough to… well -- you get the point. My belief is - that by the time I've caught on and am finally willing to join the thundering masses… "IT" is all over. For certain - there are people that are forerunners… Stielow was PT before PT had a definition. There are people that follow precious metals that probably made three fortunes. I know of one guy that SHORTED housing just before it collapsed and they say he made over a billion (with a B) doing so. I really wish 1) that I was that smart and 2) that I had the balls to act on it. #1 I'm not - and #2 - I don't. Oh sure… it's EASY when all is going gangbusters to THINK you're brilliant and or "woulda, shoulda, coulda". I absolutely entertained shorting housing at the peak or near it… I knew (felt) it was unsustainable… Housing couldn't possibly double and triple again and again… but would I gamble that I was right about my "prediction" -- hell no. Anyone with a brain could tell this was going to end badly for the lenders (banks) or builders. EVERYONE but me was making money flipping houses - and you could borrow for zero and pay even less per month! LOL It just HAD to be bad! Ask the guy that has taken a billion (with a B) dollar short on Herbalife (HLF).(a bet that the stock will drop and he can buy it back cheaper than he sold the borrowed stock he "shorted" - in other words he owes whomever he borrowed the shares from. The shares that he borrowed - HE has to go out and buy those shares on the open market and deliver 'em to who he borrowed 'em from. That's what a naked short is.) He calls it (HLF) a pyramid scheme… but the SHARE PRICE has gone up 125% since his short position (so he's LOST an enormous amount of money on his bet so far on paper). Big bet big winner IF his prediction is right - but so far he's a big azz loser… I figure since I'm Joe average - that I'd be wrong just at the right time…. hahahahaha and the minute I'd unwind my "bet" - then what I had predicted might come to be fact - and I'd have lost. So I just don't try to be a predictor of things. I'd rather "predict" that I'll get my dividend from Altria (MO) on time… and just be happy with that. But that's about as far out on a limb as I'll go. For me - it's way more fun to go skiing and go play the virtual golf machine - than to try to "win big" sticking my neck out. I'll also predict that all of my stocks will - at some point - go down. It's just a given. I WISH they wouldn't but I know they will. I will also predict that if I do nothing about that - that they'll come back before I'd need to sell them at a loss. Not sure how long that's going to take - but in the meantime the dividends will continue to roll in so I'm all good. I can eat - I can pay my water bill… with that (the dividend) -- while I wait for my prediction of higher prices to come true. Todays big up or todays big down either make me happy or make me sad… but neither really matter all that much. I will predict that they'll continue to go up and down. That's all. :thumbsup: |
I was checking up on the latest BitCoin news -- just because... I follow lots of stuff... Whether or not I intend to invest. I just like to follow - ya always learn something.
So I accidentally stumbled on a Forbes article on BitCoin and whether or not it was following a classic "bubble" line. Who knew there was such a thing? I didn't -- so I have to keep reading and found that by golly there is such a thing! Check it out! Remember what I've said about when EVERYONE is talking about "it"? Well apparently they can actually track that! See the part labeled Media attention in the "Public" time line -- then "Enthusiasm" -- Those are on the way up -- that when I'm saying to run like hell!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...os/file-53.png |
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The amazing part to me is that there is an actual chart of such events!
Here's the problem with "stuff" like this... and it's exactly the same every time. Most folks don't get in until near the very top. That is when the most people are discussing "it" - and that's when the TV talking heads are all over "it".... and the problem is not making money as "it" is going up --- the problem is nobody knows when "it" is going to blow like a popped balloon. When that happens it comes so suddenly that almost everyone looses. That's when the old turtle catches the hare and continues on to the finish line. Money - as we all know - is difficult to earn - let alone hang on to. It's difficult to earn and save 10 grand or 30 grand... and it's far far easier to lose that than it is to keep it and have it start making money for you. This isn't to say we should all only be in Kimberly Clarke... That's not what I'm talking about at all... I'm really just trying to get everyone to be able to recognize the difference between a good solid investment and the next latest "craze" of investment --- and the key element always seems to be the same -- when everyone (tv - magazines - grocery store clerk) is talking about whatever "it" is. |
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Hey Greg, I'm just curious, if you don't mind sharing, how long have you held these two? And if for a while do you have, or can you easily press a button to get a report on the earnings ROI % on them for a recent time period? I did very well with some High Yield bond funds for a long time in a certain scenario, then saw them get hammered in the CDO debacle in 2008...so I'm very familiar with how they work. I just haven't paid any attention to them since we sold them and got back into equities in late 2008. Looking at the charts, these two seem to have leveled off after that period and I'm curious if the returns are pretty much like they were before the debacle or better or worse? 2005-2006 for example we were returning 7.5-8.0% tax free on our muni bond funds. Don't put a lot of effort into it, only if you can get an easy answer report or something similar. BTW, I've started a dedicated Google portfolio and am adding symbols to it and looking at data... Baby steps...ya know. ;) |
Might have answered my own question...still finding my way around google finance.
This is according to most recent annual report Valuation Dividend Operating metrics Company name Price Change Chg % d | m | y Earnings per share Mkt Cap Dividend Dividend yield Return on investment JNK SPDR Barclays Cap... 40.58 0.00 0.00% 9.76B 6.09 HYG iShares iBoxx $ H... 93.00 -0.05 -0.05% 9.19 15.54B 6.15 6.13 9.76 |
These are ONLY cash positions never to be thought of as investments. They are just used by me as a place to park cash because for the most part they're relatively stable. And the dividend is paid MONTHLY so I don't have to be in them more than just long enough to pick up the cash.
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Made $27 MORE in dividends than I did last quarter. If I get a $27 raise 4 times a year, I will be rich in no time! :idea:
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See that is interesting to me, They didn't have bond fund ETFs back then...it cost to get in and out of fund positions. So you dump the dividend income into the bond fund ETFs, collect the monthly dividends in the meantime, and then invest out of them the next time you are ready to buy something else? Do I have that right? Pretty effing crafty I must say. I'm used to where a typical fund, when going ex-dividend...the share price drops by the comparable amount of the dividend to keep people from trading into and out of the funds just for the dividend pay days. |
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That IS NOT why the share price drops -- the share price drops by the amount paid out - no different than your checking account drops when you right a check - the share price must reflect the outgoing cash. No I do not have anything going into or out of JNK or HYG automatically --- I just always usually have a couple million in cash on hand -- and this is just where I store it until I find another home for it. The dividend paid is better than I can get sweeping the cash into a money market tied into my accounts. So why not get 5 or 6% instead of .025% I can do things just a bit differently than "most" because of my asset base. If I need the cash to do something - and let's say we're only a week away from collecting that months dividend - I can either wait - or use other cash I have parked elsewhere. I have warned and warned that these are extremely INTEREST RATE SENSITIVE and should only be used by savvy investors that are keeping a keen eye on what's going on in the market. They're NOT park it and forget it names. |
Lance,
So I had to go into the account I always use for discussion here on Lat G For instance -- currently I'm holding 25,000 shares of JNK -- and I have as of today an unrealized gain of about $2,600 --- on top of that I picked up the first of the Decembers dividend payment of $3024.00 (depending on what I held for the EX date at that time) I like that -- right now I have an unrealized gain -- and in the meantime I'm being paid to sit on it. The trick is not to let the dividend on a name like this lull you into a false sense of security - since this is purely a placeholder - it's not a company that makes products etc -- it's nothing but a JUNK BOND ETF Now -- on HYG --- I'm currently holding 10,000 shares and I have a unrealized loss of about $2200.... but I also just picked up $4500 for the first of December dividend. HYG is nothing but a high yield CORPORATE BOND ETF... high yield being the key word here -- so their credit quality would be higher than the JNK (JUNK BOND ETF) but still high interest rate risk! If I blend the two holdings together -- I'm "fine". I hold these for the previous posted reasons. They ARE NOT INVESTMENTS -- they're just places to park cash which I frequently move in and out depending on whether or not I see something I'd rather own... and if I SELL something -- and don't have my eye on something else to buy --- or the buy sell spins off excess cash - this is where it goes. Real simple. |
Lance ---
Just for fun -- and because I'm bored right now -- I checked out the REALIZED GAINS and LOSS from JNK YEAR TO DATE and this is what it looks like in this account: JNK SPDR BARCLAYS ETF HIGH Y... 02/08/2013 11,100 $449,316.85 $445,003.97 +$4,312.88 +$4,312.88 JNK SPDR BARCLAYS ETF HIGH Y... 02/08/2013 7,400 $299,543.08 $296,669.31 +$2,873.77 +$2,873.77 JNK SPDR BARCLAYS ETF HIGH Y... 02/08/2013 4,000 $161,919.18 $161,120.68 +$798.50 +$798.50 JNK SPDR BARCLAYS ETF HIGH Y... 02/08/2013 4,000 $161,919.18 $161,123.58 +$795.60 +$795.60 JNK SPDR BARCLAYS ETF HIGH Y... 02/08/2013 1,000 $40,479.99 $40,279.89 +$200.10 +$200.10 JNK SPDR BARCLAYS ETF HIGH Y... 02/08/2013 800 $32,383.03 $32,072.36 +$310.67 +$310.67 JNK SPDR BARCLAYS ETF HIGH Y... 02/08/2013 600 $24,288.00 $24,168.54 +$119.46 +$119.46 JNK SPDR BARCLAYS ETF HIGH Y... 02/08/2013 300 $12,144.00 $12,027.13 +$116.87 +$116.87 JNK SPDR BARCLAYS ETF HIGH Y... 02/08/2013 300 $12,144.00 $12,027.13 +$116.87 +$116.87 JNK SPDR BARCLAYS ETF HIGH Y... 02/08/2013 300 $12,144.00 $12,084.27 +$59.73 +$59.73 JNK SPDR BARCLAYS ETF HIGH Y... 02/08/2013 100 $4,047.88 $4,009.05 +$38.83 +$38.83 JNK SPDR BARCLAYS ETF HIGH Y... 02/08/2013 100 $4,047.88 $4,027.99 +$19.89 +$19.89 JNK SPDR BARCLAYS ETF HIGH Y... 03/04/2013 5,900 $240,709.34 $235,647.75 +$5,061.59 +$5,061.59 JNK SPDR BARCLAYS ETF HIGH Y... 03/04/2013 2,300 $93,838.14 $91,862.69 +$1,975.45 +$1,975.45 JNK SPDR BARCLAYS ETF HIGH Y... 03/04/2013 1,000 $40,799.19 $39,940.30 +$858.89 +$858.89 JNK SPDR BARCLAYS ETF HIGH Y... 03/04/2013 600 $24,478.91 $23,964.18 +$514.73 +$514.73 JNK SPDR BARCLAYS ETF HIGH Y... 03/04/2013 200 $8,159.64 $7,988.06 +$171.58 +$171.58 JNK SPDR BARCLAYS ETF HIGH Y... 04/15/2013 15,760 $648,031.98 $629,448.68 +$18,583.30 +$18,583.30 JNK SPDR BARCLAYS ETF HIGH Y... 04/15/2013 8,240 $338,818.75 $339,248.17 $0.00 $0.00 Disallowed Loss: $429.42 JNK SPDR BARCLAYS ETF HIGH Y... 04/15/2013 6,000 $246,742.68 $241,807.64 +$5,017.97 +$5,017.97 Disallowed Loss: $82.93 NOW -- When you add up the above to the DIVIDENDS I've picked up for YEAR TO DATE on this name you'll begin to get a better picture as to WHY I use these to handle cash on a very temporary basis. REMEMBER TOO THAT I WATCH THIS STUFF LIKE A HAWK.... I'm more than just a pretty face! Failure to know what the hell you're doing is not an option! 12/10/2013 Cash Dividend JNK SPDR BARCLAYS ETF HIGH Y... $3,020.24 11/12/2013 Cash Dividend JNK SPDR BARCLAYS ETF HIGH Y... $2,961.68 10/09/2013 Cash Dividend JNK SPDR BARCLAYS ETF HIGH Y... $3,027.84 09/11/2013 Cash Dividend JNK SPDR BARCLAYS ETF HIGH Y... $3,080.21 08/09/2013 Cash Dividend JNK SPDR BARCLAYS ETF HIGH Y... $2,955.30 07/10/2013 Cash Dividend JNK SPDR BARCLAYS ETF HIGH Y... $3,061.68 05/09/2013 Cash Dividend JNK SPDR BARCLAYS ETF HIGH Y... $8,479.52 04/09/2013 Cash Dividend JNK SPDR BARCLAYS ETF HIGH Y... $4,155.70 03/11/2013 Cash Dividend JNK SPDR BARCLAYS ETF HIGH Y... $6,435.66 02/11/2013 Cash Dividend JNK SPDR BARCLAYS ETF HIGH Y... $12,742.02 01/07/2013 Pr Yr Cash Div JNK SPDR BARCLAYS ETF HIGH Y... $12,891.96 |
I bet I can guess what the April 15th sale was for... :D
Thanks for posting. I agree that these types of funds should be for a specific use and watched very carefully. They can have pretty attractive yields but are as you say...very interest rate sensitive and also collateralized debt obligation default sensitive...as I found out personally. I'm still happy with my decision to sell them at the loss and go into equities as that is what brought me back so well in 2009, and will certainly entertain owning at least a portion of them again at some point in the future. Once I get through this holiday season and things settle down, I intend on opening up some Schwab accounts and getting serious about this. I'm more and more convinced to do it my way, on my own though...than with my FA like I always have. He won't be happy, but I'm sure he'll get by. ;) |
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Yes.... That would be to fund the ADDITIONAL $800 GRAND in federal income tax due. But like I always say. They get the smaller percentage of the deal and I get to keep the rest. So it's just looked at as they're my partner and they get their cut. |
but I thought the rich don't pay any taxes :lostmarbles:
Well, the end of the year is looming which means that start of next year is right around the corner. Time to max out the Roth again soon. I think what I will do is simply add to the positions I already have(16) versus buy more. I might buy another petroleum company because I'm tired of seeing OXY in the red after nearly 2 years, but I'm going to run the numbers and see where I am with it because I have been collecting decent dividends off of it the whole time too. I'm going to do that with all my positions so I can get a better idea of who is working the best for me. I'm leaning towards adding more to the stocks that are paying better dividend percentages versus gain percentages. My thoughts are that the dividend is almost guaranteed money where as the gains might not be since the stock price is way more fickle than the dividend payment. Is that an ok way to look at it or should I be more concerned with the overall gain? I consider myself to be more in the growth mode right now. I would think going after the payments would be a more sound growth mode strategy since the payment is almost guaranteed. Also, do I need to be seeking out just a normal CPA or is there a particular type of CPA I need to find in order to not only answer the questions I have about my investments and the taxes owed, but also do my taxes so I don't end up paying what I shouldn't? I'm thinking I shouldn't have had to pay taxes on my KMP position since it's under my Roth IRA but I don't know and would like to know and be more certain about my taxes. I've got other positions I might be interested in but don't want to get involved without having the proper guidance. Thanks |
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:bang: :bang: :confused59: :bang: :bang: Greg, I don't post in here a lot, but I am a frequent lurker for knowledge, inspiration and ideas, but how much time do YOU spend tending to your portfolio?? It seems like a boatload of time & dedication. I came into a sizeable (for me) windfall in the last week so I am ready to finally purchased some stock in 2014. Buy it, tend to it, let it sit and not watch it everyday (retirement stuff) so it doesn't drive me crazy. Your input and others as well, has been a real inspiration, but also extremely helpful. Your unending motto, "Investing isn't complicated as long as you do your homework" has really kept me coming back here, time and time again. |
This is for EVERYBODY at this time of year - not just you Trey - but since you asked and - it is after all - your thread!
16 stocks (names we'll call 'em) is a pretty good number. I've said before in here - 20 is all your really need... and too many is too much diversification just for the sake of being diversified. So better to just keep the great stuff -- and NOT just buy something "just because". That never works out well. The WalMart family - and Bill Gates et al - got rich pretty much on just ONE name. Right? Now - here's the tricky part... and this will NEVER work out the way you want it to or the way you think it should. The laggards (not always losers) are to be looked at for a reason WHY are they lagging? Did you pick a name of the best of the best in a group and everything else around it did better? Or is the entire industry suckolla? OIL right now is sucking wind because the price of crude ain't so hot. They do have overhead to get the crap out of the ground - and obviously - they have better profits when the end prices are higher. Right now their margins are "under pressure". BUT --- what I want you to think about is what is the FUTURE looking like. Not what DID happen -- that's behind us -- and great stock market gurus want to be IN FRONT OF the "market". So I'd leave my oil patch ride --- it will work out over time unless someone invents a car that runs on water. BUT let's look for a couple names out there that should come into their own with the economy humming along better. So what do you NOT own that you could own (since I don't know what you own and I'm not going to pick for anyone anyway) that should be picking up steam. For example - a year ago I got back into a bank name (Wells Fargo) == it has been in the dumper since the housing debacle -- and I figured the economy picking up would help the banks. Again trying to go for Best of the breed - and JP Morgan has been being pounded by the government - so I'm not going into that one -- but maybe it's starting to come out of that mess and see the light. Remember - we're looking for stuff GOING FORWARD... Great companies can rebound -- after a recall - or after stubbing their toe etc. I'm not saying go into financials --- I just used that as an example. So think hard - looking at holes in your portfolio -- and see what it is that you're missing and then look to see what those groups/names etc look like. NOW --- GOING FORWARD --- we all need to be watchful of the LOW dividend payers. They'll get punched in the nose if the interest rates start to become COMPETITIVE. Competitive is always a critical factor. I - and you - want to make a "market" return on our money ---- so if I can buy a bank CD and get 6% --- then that's competition for the 2.8% dividend payer. It's much more complicated than that - but you get the drift. Don't buy ANYTHING that you think is going to get hurt in the next couple of years because of RISING interest rates. WE ABSOLUTELY KNOW that rates are not going to go down from here. They might hover here - and take a while to move up - but we're not in the prediction game of when etc -- we just have to take a big picture look and say -- EVERYONE is saying rates are going to go up -- so that's a broad general brush stroke that we need to factor in. I don't own INDUSTRIALS -- because in a down or flat economy - Industrials lag or actually they suck.... Caterpillar just doesn't sell as well when we're not building houses and building buildings etc... but I think we're not too far away from a bust out of that "depression". So IDK -- maybe it's time to look at some of that stuff. My feeling there was that CHINA had to get moving again to really have those pick up some steam. Remember that we're trying to be ahead of the curve if we can. Go to GOOGLE FINANCE (I use it because I know what's on the page) and scroll down and look at the SECTOR Summary.... a good starting place for research. What makes up each sector - the best names there - start to compare dividend rate - last years percentage - are they a laggard just waiting for their day in the sun? Quote:
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Almost forgot to answer your question - so redid this to put it at the top.
#1 - I'm retired - and have been for 21 years. My point? What else do I have to do? I can only play just so much. #2 - Because I don't work - and my family is grown and gone - What else do I have to do? #3 - I have SIX Saturdays and a Sunday. I know it's Sunday when the big paper comes. #4 - I spend time reading and listening - and just generally paying attention because I LOVE IT. That does not equate to moving money around all the time - or trying to "game" the market. It's really quite the opposite of that! I can pay attention and spend time doing what I like because I've very secure in knowing what I own and not worrying about it. I'm an early riser -- so CNBC is my fav... and since I'm around all day every day - I can check what's up regularly between posting on Lat-G... LOL #5 - Being totally serious here. My "money problems" are different than "most" - the sums are larger - and therefore the % of swing up and down begins to be a real number... and I'm not trying as much to grow into retirement as I am trying to raise my standard of living in retirement. Oh yeah - and make sure I can do so for the next 30 years 'cause I plan to live beyond 90. It (money) truly is "all relative". I really shouldn't even post up figures like that... but I know everyone else finds it "interesting". I was trying to kind of make a couple points - one of which was pretty much directed at Lance.... that I don't worry about INCOME taxes -- because they're just a reflection of what I made. If you make a lot - and that should be the BIG GOAL - then you pay "a lot" -- but wouldn't you LOVE to be there!! That's the goal buddy! Right there! Making some money. Taxes schmaxes... I'm ECSTATIC that I have to pay some! Glad you picked up some seed money! Now get out there and make it start to work for you! Quote:
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That right there is the biggest crock of crap the Democrats try to sell you every election cycle. ANYONE can go to the IRS website or similar and see that the RICH pay a huge percentage of all the income taxes collected by the shizzle bags in Washington DC. According to new IRS data, the 1.35 million taxpayers that represent the highest-earning one percent of the Americans who filed federal income tax returns in 2010 earned 18.9% of the total gross income and paid 37.4% of all federal income taxes paid in that year. In contrast, the 128.3 million taxpayers in the bottom 95% of all U.S. taxpayers in 2010 earned 66.2% of gross income and that group paid 40.9% of all taxes paid. In other words, the top 1 percent (1.35 million) of American taxpayers paid almost as much federal income tax in 2010 ($354.8 billion) as the entire bottom 95% of American tax filers ($388.4 billion) |
More people need to be aware of those facts, and before anyone tries to kill me, I was being sarcastic. Unfortunately, it gets clouded with emotions and this illogical fair share crappola. I try to stay away from those type of distractions when looking into stocks since it's about me growing my money regardless of agreement or support. Nice segue, eh? Basically, the stance you have laid out on why you're into Altria even though you don't smoke. I'm not sure I can do it with banking though. I'm actually very upset with the banking industry in this country. But should I care? Does my investment in them really constitute support or is it simply a means to an end and more money for myself? Sometimes, I think I put too much thought into decisions :EmoteClueless:
I have no intentions of selling off my OXY. I'm just thinking I should maybe look into another petro company to expand my stake in that sector. Or, just hold tight on everything and let it ride. KMP isn't doing so well right now either but the dividend sure is nice. I'll crunch some numbers tomorrow and see where it stands. Maybe let the raw numbers guide me instead of trying to over think the decision. |
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That was easy to tell.... I just decided I'd respond with that data - because there's a whole of lot people that think rich people just suck and don't pay taxes and that they "run" everything and they're basically just blood sucking idiots. I'm the most democratic guy on earth - I don't vote that way - but I choose to be very helpful monetarily to those I think are worthy. We won't get into politics. One of my "pat" answers when people ask me "what I am" - politically -- I tell them I'm a Democratic Republican. Of course they have no clue - so I tell them that the Republicans ALLOW me to earn enough so that I can afford to be democratic. Sadly BOTH parties suck bilge water. RE: OXY I can't tell you what you should do. KMP and OXY are "Oil" plays - while not technically in the same biz -- but that's why you want to be diversified. They'll come back - and then something else will suck... but as you pointed out - you'll keep on getting paid - and if your re-investing the dividend - it will continue to just pile up. The story has a happy ending. :thumbsup: |
Nice year end banter Greg! keep it comin, lookin, learning, and applying (a little at a time).
Started a pension fund for my employees a couple of months back. May i wish i could tell them to just do this, in fact i do but according to my accountant, "its illegal to advise them, you can get in trouble with the labor board"...so i dont "advise" them. I tell them to look listen and learn. I have five funds now, i need to transfer three of them into "self directed" ira so i can do more of my own stock dividend paying pics.... |
There's many reason's why I won't tell someone what THEY should do... Everyone on here is different AGE -- they have different INCOMES -- they LIVE in different parts of the country... etc. What it takes to retire in Palm Springs vs Minot ND is completely different. Some may have parents that will leave them with a nice chunk and others (like me) will have had to take care of their parents needs. EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT.
Now - on top of that - I'm trying to teach people how to fish - not catch them a fish. Even more importantly - I want people to become responsible for their own choices. That way they understand why they picked what they did - and it's THEIR choice not mine. This only comes in to play when things ARE NOT going so well. This thread was started at about the time where almost any stock you picked was going to go up. We were coming off a pretty severe decline in asset prices so a guy could really do no wrong.... Now we're leveling off a bit and we'll start to see a different kind of market. And more importantly we'll start to TEST the investors strategy and his fortitude for those death by a 1000 cuts kind of markets. The kind were you start to question yourself daily. Maybe that's not on us now - maybe it won't come for a couple more years - but it will come. What I'm hoping is that by that time - whenever the market turns and starts to go against you - is that people will have seen that this is temporary - it's part and parcel of investing in ANYTHING and that they'll also have nice gains to buffer the fallout. So if a guy is up 40% --- and we have a selloff and it takes 10% off -- BIG WHOOP -- you're still UP... and those dividends are still grinding away. What I'm really hoping for is that some will also be able to take advantage of an investment opportunity they might have otherwise passed on because of their fears... the fear of losing. Part of investing is to become confident in yourself - not cocky - but confident that you can understand the difference between gambling and investing and that you'll have learned that sometimes stuff fails - so we don't want to go all in. We want to be able to lose and still play another day. It's early and I'm on my first cup of coffee so hope this makes sense. Quote:
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My "take" on Financial Advisors or "brokers" etc... is this. They're trying to make a living off what you're trying to make a living off of. The only way they can make a living is to get commissions from transactions. Transaction fees eat into your dough... and fixed fees on a compounded basis can have a HUGE affect over time. In so many words - THEY need to make a living too... how do THEY do that? They're not free... they also need to eat.. so someone is feeding them. It just isn't going to be me. In the "old days" -- if a guy was buying tax free munis - in a fixed fee account - and the broker is getting 1 or 2 percent annually - it was okay because back then I might have been getting 8 or 9 percent tax free off them. But when the rates are under 4% and this azzwipe thinks he's going to get 1% ?!?!?!?! HELL NO!! Now --- if they're not fixed fee -- then they make NOTHING off you unless you buy and sell. They use FEAR to get you to SELL ---- the very stuff they talked you into buying on the last call! WTF is with that? OH YEAH - it's called commission. I don't give a shizzle who you think you are - or how important of a client/friend/buddy you think you are... they have a mortgage to pay too! And when that's due - and they need to generate some income - they're calling with the next hot deal - or a reason why the thing you just bought isn't worth a **** now and you have to sell and buy something else (two commissions). In other words - just hell no! If you want to make money over the long run - just buy and do what I've been preaching on here - you don't need anyone to have this make sense to you. And you don't need the lion in the cage over there to feed and take care of. The only guy you have to take care of is YOU. Trust me - you have no idea how many investment houses court me for my accounts - they take me to lunch - they invite me to seminars - and to private conference rooms with what would be "my team"... Frankly - they could offer to fly me in a private jet and I wouldn't waste my time. For my kind of account EVERYTHING is free! Yeah right -- there is no "free". Somehow somewhere they're making money off my money. Otherwise why would they do it? What I've found is that they have a "vested interest" in themselves and when push comes to shove - their interest tops mine. No thanks! I'm really not that lame. |
Crystal clear bud! What i appriecate about you Greg is you say it in a way that i can understand, so many "pros" that i've talked to cant make it clear. My brain and the way i think, over complicates things. I am a glass tech (glazier) by trade and due to my shoulder (mostly) I have to now be a CEO, one with vision, leadership, discipline, focus and etc.....I have to now read financial statements, create programs and create jobs, growth etc....I HAVE ZERO EXPERIENCE!!!!
But one thing i do know, is hard work merits good results, even if you fail or lose, you've "Given it your all". I'm not leaving anything on the "field". And my fear is not of losing (as i've lost plenty) its of being financially successful and all that it entails. So keeping it simple (investing) is key for me!! And that, my friend, is what you've brought to the table, on this thread,, for me. One day i will bring some actual "insight" to this here table, but for now, i dont mind being a student. :thumbsup: |
I can only hope that I've been somewhat helpful. This thread isn't about every possible point for success... that's still on an individual basis... and success for one is very different than success for another. I like your hard work statement because in America - that's what it's all about. Now this thread is trying to take that hard work - and turn it into something that can be rewarding when you're all done doing hard work! HAHAHAHAHAHA
What's the point if after all that hard work - you end up with nothing? UGH. Small business is the hardest job EVER.. you have to wear every hat and you're expected to be good at wearing all of them. You have to be able to install a window and you're supposed to know what your accountant is telling you too. Here's my problem with accountants. They just put the numbers on a page. The numbers are meaningful and I'm not taking anything away from their work... but the accountants can kill your SALES. Because they'll fill your head with what MARGIN (or markup) you need to pay your bills and make a profit. Fine. I get it. But if your margins are "wrong" (too high) - then you won't make many sales and nothing from nothing is nothing. Some small businesses get caught up in not understanding margins and overhead and GSA etc. And they loose sight of what needs to happen FIRST - and that's to make a sale, gain a happy customer, service that sale no matter what - because that's what leads to the next sale and so on. It would take pages to explain what I'm saying in a more detailed way - but you get the point. Quote:
Sorry for my RANT --- I just have a hard time with "professionals" that always want to tell you all about all the numbers but don't understand that sales have to come first and if you have enough sales - the numbers take care of themselves (unless you're giving the stuff away -- then you end up like Frank @ Prodigy). RANT OVER. LOL |
So I sat down and figured up my percentages for everything I own. My totals for all stocks since I've owned them is
Div Gains 4.76% Capital Gains 8.5% Total Gains 13.67% Some of the stocks I have only owned a few months. Others, I have owned for 18 months. Should I be looking at all these as a lumped group or should I take into account the fact that a few stocks are only a few months old? Since I went for percentages, I think I have it calculated correctly. After all, we're looking at how much money my money has made. I'm trying to compare it to what my money that's being managed by Fidelity and Vanguard in two different mutual funds is doing. My Fidelity account has a year to date return of 16% where as my Vanguard account is up 25% from March 2012 which is when I bought my first stocks. It looks like I'm getting my butt kicked but I wanted to make sure I did my calculations correctly and my comparison too. Thanks |
Well -- first off a comparison has to be apples to apples -- the first half of this year brought most of the gains - the last half has just been "okay" --- so to really compare - you'd have to ONLY compare the stocks that you've owned for the same period of time ----- OR ---- see if the new buys compare IF you'd bought them at the same time as what you're comparing. The fact that you bought them later could be the difference.
Then - you have to see what the comps are against. So let's just say the mutual fund with the big (very nice btw!) gain -- might be mostly "tech" -- or some other sector fund that has done extremely well. Or is it just a general blended "big cap" or "small cap" fund etc. Typically a "sector fund" can outdo a more broad based portfolio IF -- always the big if -- it happens to be in the hot sector for that year. We can't see what you're in - and it's none of our business... so I can't look for you. Just give you some food for thought when you're making head to head comparisons. I like to look at ALL of my money to really get a feel for how I'm doing overall... so how am I doing in the apartment business - how am I doing in the commercial real estate - how am I doing in stocks etc. Typically I could always find "something" that is weaker than the other THIS TIME --- next time -- that laggard is suddenly pulling the whole wagon. That's why anyone and everyone will stress "diversity" in your investments. RARELY will everything be pumping on all 8 at the same time. We'd like it to be that way - but it's rarely that way. Now - the other thing - we don't know - is did you reinvest your dividends and are you calculating that correctly. The FUNDS all figure reinvested dividends to get their return or growth calculations. Another thing I'd ask you to do - is to look at what makes up your funds top 10 holdings -- and see if they just happened to get one or two big hitters out of the whole mix. Let's say they held a big percentage (5% or so) of NetFlix which has been up like 305% year to date.... Dude that will kick ANYONES ass! Quote:
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Thanks for putting my gains into perspective, Greg. I like the percentages I'm earning, but I also like to make sure I'm not losing out some how.
I'll have to dig to see what my funds are invested in. Both are target retirement funds so there's some blending but I'm not sure of specifics off the top of my head. I did my calculations as follows: The Div gains are simply the percent difference between the total cost and what I paid out of pocket. Capital gains are the percent difference between total cost and current value. Total gains are percent difference between current value and what I paid out of pocket. I know both Fidelity and Vanguard are only calculating the capital gains when I look at the individual stocks. How they are calculating the mutual funds, I don't know. Even though I am reinvesting the dividends and I understand why they consider it a cost, I like to know what all my money has earned. My total gain matters most to me since it is everything that's been earned with the money I took out of pocket. |
Hey Trey ---
You're all doing way too much work!! Way too much math!! Okay - let's see if I can explain this. Go to Google Finance..... call up the stock you want to check out your gain and get the chart set to say One year -- if that's all the longer you've owned it... now look at the top left of the chart... there's DATES there... if you click on the dates you can put in the date you want s -- so let's say SEPT 03, 2013 until todays date... Just change the date in the from box --- leave todays date in the other box alone... hit enter. MOVE YOUR MOUSE OUT OF THE CHART BOX and you'll see the percentage of increase (or if you suck - decrease) and the point gain. |
lol, I know it's overkill but I like seeing it. I check my stocks every week simply for the same reason. To me, it's fun to watch. I'm finally making really good head way(at least I think so) on a major goal in my life and I'm an observer by nature so I just sit back and watch it even though I'm not planning to make any sudden changes.
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