Originally Posted by T_Raven (Post 249285)

It looks like you've already decided against the Richmond but I'd like to add a few things for anyone that might debate this later. And it's good general info about gear sizes.

I was looking at a 69 Firebird that had a Richmond 5 speed and 3.55 rear gears. That would make for 3500 rpms at 75 mph, definitely not acceptable. A TKO 600 with a .68 5th gear would be closer to 2500 rpms at 75, so that's much better. To turn 2500 rpm @ 75 with a 1:1 5th gear you'd need about a 2.40:1 rear gear and I don't even know where to buy anything numerically lower than 3.08, so gears would cost more and offset the savings of a Richmond 5 speed for anyone debating the two.

Richmond advertises that they made a 1:1 5 speed because it's quieter. At a 1:1 ratio you can design a trans to lock the input and output shafts rather than spinning gears to get an over drive, making less noise. I've never noticed an over drive trans to be too noisy though so that's a pointless way to do it in my eyes. To make up for no over drive they gear the whole thing lower so you can use taller rear gears and still have similar gearing overall and low cruise rpm, but like I said, where do you find 2:40:1 gears? Also having a 3.28:1 1st gear is part of what makes the Richmond weeker. To have a higher ratio the two gears need to be further apart in size making for less contact between the two, making for a weeker pair of gears. This is why the TKO 500 with it's 3.27:1 1st gear is weeker than the TKO 600 with it's 2.87:1 1st gear.

The Richmond was part of the reason I didn't buy the dude's car. I would've had to spend quite a bit to change that and a few other things and he wouldn't come down on price enough.

Originally Posted by Ron Fox (Post 249599)

Thanks T for your info. How far along are you on your '67 Bird? Did you ever use the T56? If so how do you like it?

Are you still in Iraq or are you finally home?

Originally Posted by T_Raven (Post 249608)

I'm still in Iraq, hopefully I'll be done within the next year.

I'm not too far with the car, mostly just gathering parts. I have everthing to put the t56 in but haven't done it yet. I have been satisfied with the t56 cars I've driven though. My 01 shifts hard but with 160k miles I think a new clutch would solve that. A TKO would probably be an easier install, but I got my t56 cheap and I'm pretty tall so I like that the t56 puts the shifter farther back. I won't be using a factory console anyway.

Good luck with the build. I think this has made for a good thread for anyone debating this in the future.:thumbsup:

Originally Posted by Ron Fox (Post 249624)

I have not done all my homework about the TKO 500 & 600 but do both of these fit into the '69 Firebird (with a console) without any problems?

Thanks for your service!!

Originally Posted by T_Raven (Post 249625)

Yeah with the different shifter placements you can get the shifter in the right spot. I just saw on p-t.com that Mcleod will be releasing their new M800 5 speed that is designed to fit w/o mods to floors and such. It won't be available until March but it looks pretty sweet. http://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62594

Originally Posted by T_Raven (Post 249666)

I only found out about it today in that thread. It was just debuted at sema. I guess it's rated at 800 ft lbs, is physically smaller than other over drives, and should cost around $2300 from what Frank at Prodigy Customs said. The Mcleod guy said they won't be out till march though.