That's gold right there Bro! Glad you had fun :cheers:

I've had my oil cooler setup planned out for a while now and in order to fit a bigger cooler I've planned to mount it sideways. I had also read that this is good as it allows you to change more of your oil during an oil change.

The one thing I didn't think about was filling the oil system. So if my oil pan is a 5.5 quart pan and the cooler and lines add another 2.75 quarts is it ok that the pan will have ~8 quarts at start up until the oil cooler is refilled?

You are over thinking it. With an oil t stat(Which you should run on the pressure side), 90% of the oil should be bypassed back to your engine filling your cooler slowly. This will build oil pressure faster and avoid thermal shock. The windage experienced isn't worth debating at start up.

If you oversize your oil cooler, it can cause low oil temperature during street operation. Not a huge problem if you are running a real street oil with detergents. The oil t stat will still flow enough to cool your oil. My temps dropped substantially with my oil t stat and cooler. (Vs. my heat exchanger which you may consider?)I had way more metal flying around and likely put in a bigger cooler than you are planning. Moral of the story, you either need to install the right size cooler, or build a shroud. Rely on experience, there are plenty of LS engines in a dual purpose application, find out what size cooler at t stat they are running and the results.

Thanks Todd. I am using the Improved Racing adapter with built in 180* thermostat. Though it doesn't block the cooler so I'm expecting it to fill the cooler shortly after start.

I also used the Setrab documents to pick my cooler. According to their site: http://www.setrabusa.com/products/oi...ine/index.html

A 34 row 13" wide oil cooler is good for 400-475hp and is about the biggest I could go with my setup without more serious fabrication. So while it seems my cooler will be bigger than most I've seen, according to Setrab it is still undersized a bit.

Well I installed the cooler. I thought the mounting of the cooler and making the lines would be the hard part. Turns out getting the lines routed and connected to the adapter was the hardest part. I'm not really happy with how close the lines are to the headers.

Here is the cooler and Improved Racing adapter with thermostat.

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/image.../19070598.jpeg

The bracket hat goes down in front of the radiator. I tried to fab my bracket to follow the mounting bracket on the cooler to block the least amount of air.

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/image.../19070597.jpeg

The two homemade mounting brackets painted and ready to install. These are two strips of 1" x 1/8" aluminum. The top of one bolts to the vintage air bracket that goes to the top of the AC condenser and the other bolts to the core support. Both bolt to the lower valence.

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/image.../19070599.jpeg

One of the hoses. These are XRP pushlock hoses. I mistakenly believed when I ordered them that these had the highest temp ratings. I'm also using the XRP fyre sleeve rated to 800* (went with that since the silicone sleeves were only rated to 500*).

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/image.../19070600.jpeg

Here is a shot of the cooler mounted

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/image.../19070601.jpeg

Finally, the routing i did with the lines is a bit funky. I wasn't able to route both lines along the block as there just wasn't enough room with the headers. This routing gives the most space around the line from the header, though it has header pipes on 3 sides. The other line against the block is also close to a header pipe. At the closest point both lines are about 0.5" from a header pipe.

What do you guys think? I'm leaning towards trying to redo these lines with hard lines at least until well clear of the headers.

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/image.../19070602.jpeg

Results.

The Improved Racing adapter with built in thermostat works excellent. The thermostat begins to open at 180* and fully opens by 200*. Driving around on the surface streets I was seeing consistently about 195* oil temps (previous was around 220*) and on the freeway I see about 200-205* (previous was 250*).

Oil pressure is significantly improved at these temps. I'm seeing idle of 25 PSI (prior 18) and high RPM tops out around 60 PSI (prior was low 40's).

To close for comfort. While it may be functional, I'd be concerned about a hose failure and potential fire at a time yet determined. Different block adapter or fitting configuration to run it along the oil pan? Or out behind the headers by the firewall?

I'd also have to wonder about freeway oil temps of 250 before the cooler. Are you sure your tune isn't to lean? It should run cool down the freeway without an oil cooler. Lower oil temps mean longer engine life. 230-250 road racing would be great. 210-230 on the street would be optimal.

I agree with Todd.....



Heat RISES... so whenever I'm working around the headers - I want to be UNDER them not over 'em.

I'd re-route the line close to the block away from the header.

Yeah we will see about the temps on the road course.

I'd like to try and keep my existing adapter because it appears to be one of the few oil thermostats that actually works and allows the oil to heat up. This is why I'm leaning towards hard lines. I tried to run the lines out the back but it is stupid tight there too. These headers are just super tight to the block on the drivers side. I think the only way to get a lot of clearance would be to use an adapter that spins on in place of the oil filter and run a remote oil filter.

Thanks for the feedback Todd.

EDIT: I'm planning to take the car for a dyno tune but I'm 99% sure it is running too rich.

I'm seeing coolant temps of around 205-210 so I don't know if that had something to do with the higher oil temps in the past. I've been trying to chase down the vintage air peeps because I appear to have a coolant flow issue. My temps will be 205-210 in 6th gear at 70mph but if I shift down to 4th at the same speed the temps will drop below 200 and run high 190's.

Thanks Greg.

There is no room along the block for two soft lines with these headers. I'm hoping i can make it work with hard lines otherwise it means a different adapter :(

Hey Chad,

I know what you mean about space but I agree with others about the line. I would look at a remote filter set up and run the lines along the side of the pan if you can. I'm not sure what you're frame and engine look like from the bottom but I would think there has to be a way to do it.

Also my temps don't get as high as yours. What temp do you have the fans set to?

I used to have the fan kick on at 200* and off at 195* but after seeing the fan run constantly I set it to kick on at 210 and off at 205 to see if it made a difference. Operating temps really didn't change either way though the fan ran a lot less.

I played with it some more this afternoon and at idle it can get as high as 215*. When I bring up the revs it drops to 205* but today it didn't drop any lower.

I'm running the AFCO LS radiator and a Mark VIII fan so I'd think that is plenty to keep an idling motor cool... I have an open question to Vintage Air and via them to Tuff Stuff who made the water pump about it.

EDIT: on the streets of willow track for the handling challenge coolant temps stayed around 210* even with oil temps at 260*+

If you bring up the RPMS and the car cools off --- I'd be looking at the voltage your electric fan is seeing at idle. I assume you're running a relay -- but perhaps not heavy enough gauge on the power side.

I bought a 37 Ford once that had an overheating problem -- well DOH! The fan was seeing 10 Volts... That was certainly easy to fix.

I hadn't thought of that Greg. I'm using the Mast relay built into their harness. I will double check it.

This could be part of the story but isn't the whole story as I can duplicate this behavior on the freeway with the fan off. I turned the fan off with my laptop and saw stable temps ~210* in 6th gear 70mph but when I ran 4th gear at 70mph the temps dropped to below 200*. So I think there is something else going on too.

Regarding lean vs rich. The car is pretty stinky right now and if I don't clean it builds up a layer of soot on the tail panel so I think it's to rich. Oh and it gets horrible MPG. Around 10mpg around town. A best of 15 on 100% freeway drive.

Sounds like your water pump pulley may be to under driven. Meaning, to big.

To fat can cause high exhaust gas temps as well.

I'd dial in the tune before you worry to much more about temperatures.

Thanks Todd. I will get a dyno tune scheduled ASAP.

In the mean time I've been researching oil pan adapters and most of them are not great for my Champ / Autocraft pan since it kicks out to the side. I stumbled on this genius solution on LS1tech. I need to find someone who can make this!

http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/...psf74525f8.jpg

Nice looking adapter. I am not sure but I think Brett at Fab53 may be able to build it for you and he is in the LB area. Another option, if its not hard to take the pan off, would be to tig the fittings onto the pan that way you can set the angles up to work with your set up.

But honestly I would do the tune work first before going any further.

Chad,
Can you post a link to that thread on tech?

How about the Mocal thermostat that Improved Racing also sells? If there is space downward it might work for you.

http://www.improvedracing.com/cooler...ines-p-33.html

Well I'm going to do the tune but either way I'd like to run an oil cooler so that part of all of this is not effort wasted. I called Brett yesterday but he said he is too busy to do work like this. Otherwise I'm sure he could make the part.

Sure, it is right here: http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation...r-options.html

No I don't think the Mocal would work at least not if I don't want the lines next to the headers. I guess it would be mostly metal next to the header but both fittings would be up against or near the headers.

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/image...9/19070791.jpg

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/image.../19070792.jpeg

Because of the kick out of the pan I would love the custom adapter above. If I use the Champ or Canton adapter for steel pans that replaces the oil filter adapter the lines would have to run out alongside the kick out (where the Autokraft sticker is). Still farther from the headers than my current setup but not as ideal as being able to get them above the kick out tucked into the pan.

Did you come up with a fix for the oil cooler? Also, do you have a cage in the car?

I've gathered up parts to make steel lines from the adapter to out past the headers. I'm having Rob from PCH Rods try and bend it up for me, hopefully next week. Its super tight so until we bend up the line I'm not 100% there is room to fit hard lines. I'm having to step down to -8 to do it too as the -10 bender has to large of a bend radius to work.

No cage in the car. I've got a 4 point in mind for a future upgrade.

Couple of fun updates.

Super Chevy published some inital info on the 2014 Super Chevy Handling Challenge. My car was their reprsenting TCI enginnering's front Camaro subframe and rear 12bolt based torque arm.

http://image.superchevy.com/f/785384...lenge-cars.jpg

http://www.superchevy.com/events/150...back-on-track/

I'm looking forward to the full articles. And I can't wait to go abuse my car on a full road course again. I'm eyeing the Extreme speed event at SOWS 11/15-16 if I can get my oil lines redone this weekend.

I also attended the NMCA West Hotchkis Autocross event this past weekend. this is first time I've had to really try out the car. My previous trips to Adam's have been rushed and mostly in the dark.

What a blast!! This car is so freeking fun to drive compared to my old setup! I now have to relearn the car because it can do things in a corner I've only been able to dream about before. I can't wait to learn more behind the wheel and also about shock tuning. It really helps that I can piggy back off of years of development Sal has put into his car.

Speaking of Sal. It made the event really fun to have both of our Torch Red 68 Camaros TCI equiped fighting it out. I've got more power but he's got more seat time and I think bigger cajones.

http://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.ne...448a53d3b36fdb

Sal set a faster lap time than me both Saturday and Sunday but I closed the gap Sunday :) and lost by only a tenth. I ran in a session before Sal so he knew the time he had to beat so it was a lot of fun watching him drive his ass off to make sure he beat me including a spectacular spin on his last run.

Here is another shot of my car in action.

EDIT: Need to resize this one.

In the classic Muscle class I finished 3rd Saturday and 4th Sunday.

Sunday had a better turn out in that class too. It was great catching up with and watching some of the other Lat-G members drive too. The format of the event using run groups with multiple laps per run group instead of cycling through all cars in order was awesome. Gave you time to make changes to the car, relax, chat with folks, etc.

So while the overall number of laps was lower than I liked (8 Saturday, 7 Sunday) I really enjoyed the event.

I didn't get great video as this was my first time using HLT at an autocross but will try and post some up later.

Great seeing you yesterday Chad. Your car looked awesome out there! That doughnut course was a stinker :pee-eww:

:cheers:

Thanks Ron. If you didn't give a damn about your rear tires the donut box could be fun but otherwise it did kinda suck. Overall still a fun autocross course. I liked that it had two "sweeper" type higher speed turns even if both were decreasing radius ones.

Forgot that I also have an engine coolant temp update.

I ended up talking with Tuff Stuff Performance who makes the waterpump for the Vintage Air Frontrunner kit. They suggested that my issue might be related to an air pocket but when I explained the steps I took to try and bleed air out of the sytem they didn't have any suggestions for trying something different.

So I shipped the waterpump to them to have it double checked. It of course was fine but did have a waterline suggesting an air pocket did exist. Having drained and refilled the coolant system on this car many times for a variety of reasons it was antibody's guess if that was still true. Tuffstuff shipped the pump back and suggested I drill and tap a vent line into the top of the pump which I can't do with the DBW throttle body.

So Friday night before the Hotchkis Autocross I filled the radiator and did everything I could to bleed air out of the system. Including jacking the front of the car off the ground several feet and letting the thermostat cycle several times with the cap off.

TL,DR = It was an air pocket in the waterpump. If anything the car now almost runs too cold at freeway cruise in 6th gear. Its gone from 210-214 to about 180*

One more sorting issue/gremlin fixed!

Congrats on the coverage and getting the coolant issue resolved, Chad. The car looked great out there.

Nice... Good to see that issue is fixed and that shes back on the road and you are able to enjoy it again. Long time coming.

Glad to hear you got the cooling issue fixed. Congratulation's on the ink the car looks great.

So great to see you out enjoying again Chad..... :thumbsup:

SOW 2015 sometime for a rematch? :idea:

Thanks for all the positive vibes everyone!!

They paid off today. I posted this on my auto club thread but figured I'd throw the after action report in here too.

Here is my quick after action report:

Whew!!! What a great day! Its been a while since I've had this much fun. Its been a while since I've been this nervous/scared out of mind ha ha. The Auto Club Sports Car course (aka Roval) is one intense track!

I ended up being the only Pro-touring / classic muscle at the track today. Its a bummer no other PT cars showed but it was kind of neat being the sole outlier too. I did see Jake running his daily driver Mustang in the time attack competition. Good stuff.

This was a real test for me and the car as this is the first track day I've done since getting the TCI Engineering subframe and torque arm installed along with the 427" LS3 motor. After many setbacks it was awesome to have a 99.9% trouble free day. I only had two gremlins. 1) My license plat didn't like 150mph and was hanging by one bolt after the 1st session. 2) My ignition relay melted down after the first session (not sure what to make of that yet). Otherwise the coolant temps were 195-200 the whole time and oil temps hovered a hair under 250*

By the numbers:
- 33 Laps driven
- 25 timed
- Over 1 hour of seat time (left early too)
- 6.6mpg on track
- Over 100 miles driven on track
- Fastest lap time 1:59 (ran at least one 1:59 lap in every session so at least I was consistent).
- Highest top speed 151mph

I didn't push the car nearly as hard on the brakes and corners as its capable of but the Auto Club is so damn fast I wanted to still drive home. Yeah I didn't trailer the car!

Here is some data from my fastest lap:
https://scontent-b-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/...49&oe=551A30C7

And a video of my highest top speed and some passes.


Overall the car felt great and though I had some pretty conservative brake zones and g's in the corners I was far from the edge. Its so much more fun to drive a balanced car than my old push monster!

I might do some more video and pics but for now I'm off to bed!

Looks like you had a good day with the car and man does that look like FUN.

Do you have a roll cage in the car? Any plans for upgrading the seats? Looks like there is a lot of movement with the g's.

Thanks for sharing ..... that's cool to run your car like it was meant to!

Michael

Sounds like one of those great days Chad. :trophy-1302:

Doesn't get much better than those numbers. :thumbsup:

Agreed. Time for Chad to think about bringing the safety features up to snuff with the performance I'd say. :rules:

150mph is no joke... :rules:

yeah you guys got me. I've had safety upgrades in mind for over a year but have chased sorting issues instead. I'm also like many who did all the go fast goodies first and then realized I should spend some time and money on safety too..

So plans include:
- 4 point roll bar with possibly door bars. No cage as I will street this thing without a helmet a lot.
- Fixed back seat for track days (leaning towards a containment seat too)
- 5 point harness
- Fire suppression system

I need to figure out what roll bar to go with and/or a shop to do one custom. I once upon a time figured Brett would do it but he has an overfull plate as it is. I want to figure out the bar and shop first and then build the rest around it.

And yeah yesterday was pretty amazing.

Congrats brother. This is well deserved after all the ups and downs---mostly downs--you've endured. Looking forward to catching up tomorrow at lunch.

D

Track day!!!
 

Here is my track day report from Willow Springs Sunday 11/30. Two track days in within 8 days. I could get used to this!!

Because of the Thanksgiving weekend this past event had a lower turnout and the track organizer Extreme Speed Track Events kept a discounted price right through Saturday. After flying home from Thanksgiving I was able to do a tech inspection on the Camaro Saturday afternoon and still sign up afterwards for Sunday.

While still nervous about the need to do some saftey upgrades I have to say I was also excited as this was the first time I was going to be running a track I've run previously with my old V2.0 setup. I have Harry's Lap Timer data from my previous session in 2011 and yesterdays so I could do some fun comparisons beyond just lap times.

I drove the 120 miles from home up to Willow Springs early Sunday morning. Before booking the day I had checked the weather in Rosamond and saw it was going to be clear and didn't think anything else of it. However, on the way up there I drove about 20 miles through some mild rain. Feeling pretty good I jinxed myself twice over by bragging on Facebook that I not only drove my car to the track but drove it through a rainstorm. So of course The first session on track saw the rain start and by session two it was wet enough that after a couple of laps I came back into the pits. 600hp is damn scary on frozen tires that are wet!!! Thankfully I got three dry sessions in during the afternoon. However, the second jinx of bragging about driving in the rain getting there is that on the way home it rained 110 out of 120 miles home and about 80 of that was hardcore downpour in traffic. ugh! Another safety upgrade is in order. Actually install the wiring to my DSE wiper motor...

My previous best lap time at Big Willow was a 1:44 so I was hoping to break into the 1:3X's. I'm glad to report that I improved my time nicely by running several 1:40's but the 1:3X's escaped me. I even ran the 5th session (I usually leave exhausted before then) but it was so late in the day that the sun was blinding me in Turn 1, 2 and 9 (scary place to get blinded) so the 1:3X's will have to wait until next time.

Also, now that the car is capable of sustaining 1+g's in the turns the lack of a secure seat and belts is really starting to show. Not only is it harder to judge handling in a corner but it's plain hard to hang on. I did a mild strain in my lower back and today the list of sore muscles from hanging on and bracing myself include: forearms, neck, lower back, lats on the right side, and thighs (bracing against door and trans tunnel). Now this is partially exasperated by the fact that the left bolster on my seat bottom was broken at the Suspension Challenge a few months back and I need to get the frame re-welded.

Anyhow. for $95 bucks I got to run over 40 timed laps and drove over 120 miles on the road course. Track days are certainly harder on your car than an autocross but for $ per time in the seat it can be a helluva deal!

Here is some video from my fastest session. I made this one longer as it has some fun laps with the lap traffic and several of my 1:40 laps.



Also, Some cool data from my best yesterday with V3.0 and my best lap 3 years ago with the V2.0 setup.

Yesterday's lap.
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/image...3/19088238.JPG

And my old personal best:
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/image...3/19088239.JPG

A couple of observations I had:
1) My old setup used a GPS device with a lower update frequency so that is why the G meter bars are different between the two.
2) yellow shading is 0.75+ sustained g's and red is 1.0+ sustained g's
3) The corner speeds are the lowest speed at any point through a corner and are a bit misleading IMO as the average speed through the whole corner was much higher with the V3.0 TCI, Ridetech and larger tires.
4) The red/green lines that follow the track show acceleration/balanced throttle (green) and deceleration/braking (red). You can see with V3.0 that I shortened the deceleration/braking zones significantly in almost every area of the track. And there is a lot more to go!
5) Big Willow is a high HP track and my higher power certainly helped a lot but I was exiting corners with much higher exit speeds too.

I continue to be very impressed with the capabilities of the new suspension. I only had the car push on one corner mid turn. This weekend I realized that I'm a little unsettled by driving a car with no/very little under steer. The lack of under steer combined with a huge improvement in handling has made finding the edge in a corner a lot more scary because it is so much further away now.

I began to experiment more with the car setup this weekend by making some minor shock changes. Overall, in addition to the needed safety upgrades I learned that I have mild pad knock back if I do two or more 1.0+ G corners back to back without braking as well as the fact that I have too much rear brake bias. So a new adapter and likely master cylinder are getting added to the to do list (to help with the bias, no plans for the knock back just yet).

Oh and I'm really glad this happened 20 miles from home instead of at 130+ mph! Two high speed weekends in a row have revealed the shortcomings of this hood latch weld.
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/image...5/19088252.JPG
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/image...5/19088253.JPG

Can't wait to get some of the upgrades made and keep going. I jumped on a black Friday deal with Extreme and bought 8 track days good for any track they run at for $400. $50 a day to run at Buttonwillow or Auto Club, hell any SoCal track is a sweet deal!

:flag2:

Absolutely badass Chad!

Shop recommendation for my 6/8 point roll bar?
 

I've done searches on this forum, google, etc. As no clear winner emerged I wanted to throw my own question out there.

I'm looking for a shop to do a 6/8 point roll bar in my 68 Camaro. Quite honestly I prefer a shop that has significant experience working with cages for race cars. This is because I want someone familiar with sanctioning body requirements and true safety. Ron's thread has inspired me. In fact I got some recommendations from him on NorCal shops if I can't find someone local.

I want a shop that knows about things like annealing chromoly, mocking up a fixed back seat with appropriate attachment points to the roll bar, drivers head spacing, etc.

Please share any recommendations you have.

There is a shop just down the street from us that you should talk with. They do all kinds of metal fabrication but are very good with chromoly cages as well. They just finished a Nova with all of our stuff under it destined to run deep into the 10's in full street trim.

Mouse is the guy you want to talk to. (909)238-9347

Have you called Eddie's?

http://www.fasteddiesracecars.com/

I think Mike Wright knows him.

Thanks Jason.

Thanks Ron. Doug and I talked about them and they are on my list to call.