280 oil temp
 

As Dave pointed out, 280 degrees F is perfectly fine for good synthetic oil. You should be able to run over 300 with good oil (not saying you want it that hot but that it isn't that uncommon). High temperatures will cause some break-down of the oil and additive package so you should change the oil more frequently when it gets that hot. That shouldn't be an issue as I would assume most heavily tracked cars change the oil after each event weekend (and take an oil sample from time to time and send it to Blackstone or some other oil analysis company).

I have read this thread from front to back and I have a few questions.

What is the part number for the AC pressure sensor? Pigtail?
What is the thread size and pitch on the sensor?
Besides John Parsons, anyone else have a T made up to work on the VA system?
What is the pin out for an E38 ECM?

Thanks.

Eficonnection has the connector parts.

Or go to the junk yard and fine one. You can get the connector, sensor, and fitting. Cut the aluminum hose on each side. Any AC shop can braise the fitting onto any aluminum line or fitting. Last I checked you couldn't buy the fitting the sensor connects to.

Yep, I run Redline. Change it before and after every event (from motor oil to racing oil and back again). I even send in oil for analysis...

Thanks. What year and models does this fall into? Or is this pretty much the same across multiple models?

I can't say 100%, but I pulled mine off of early 2000 front wheel drive cars. I pulled a few for friends & they all worked. I bought the connector from EFI Connection & it was the same connector as what I found in the junkyard. I assumed/hoped that it was the same sensor. I think I paid $5 a piece for the connector pigtail, sensor, & segment of hose.

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/f...04653_edit.jpg

I haven't done it on my AC line yet, but buddy took one of these to AC shop & they removed the fitting from the tube & then braised to an elbow that then gets crimped onto a hose.

This looks about right:

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/more...nid=516&jpid=0

Andrew

EFI Connection has the AC sensor pigtail & parts:

Pigtail:
https://www.eficonnection.com/eficon...spx?ItemId=910

Connector parts:
https://www.eficonnection.com/eficon...spx?ItemId=207

And sensor:
https://www.eficonnection.com/eficon...px?ItemId=1080

Sensor through them is $60, pigtail is $11.50.


Info on the page for the sensor states:
" We currently do not know where to source a fitting."

That's why I headed to the junk yard. I think I paid around $5 a piece for the fitting, sensor & pigtail.

You don't need to go to the junkyard to get the fitting for the A/C pressure switch; it is available from several vendors either in aluminum or steel. I don't know if I can post non-sponsor links here but if so, let me know and I'll provide the links. Also, as far as I know, GM A/C pressure sensor used in most LS cars has a fine metric thread. Specifically M10 x 1.25.

The fitting is on the right.
http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/p...20fittings.jpg

That doesn't look like the threads on fittings for the sensors I have. The ones I have are a finer thread I believe. I will try to find one in my shed (moved & stuff is everywhere), and take a pic of it.

So I just came across this gem on a bmw forum.

http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/p...ureSensors.jpg

Of particular note are sensors number MT1297 and MT1339. They use the same connector and have nearly the same voltage readings but one is female 3/8-24.....same as a female Vintage Air trinary switch. VA has adapters to install that into a drier or inline fitting if you want.

MT1297 transfers to a GM 22599559 or ACDelco 15-72104 and it seems to have the same pressure/voltage ramp as the one parsons outlined about 4 pages back.


****Edit**** ACdelco 15-72104 does not fit the Vintage Air adapters. Thread and pitch are wrong so that is out.....back to the previous plan.

That's cool. I sent an email VA asking about an adapter and no response. The only fitting I see that would work is a Schrader style but not sure if that is what you are referring to.

This adapter will thread into the drier and _should_ work with the GM sensor noted above. I am waiting for my sensors to get here and confirm.

18103-VUG

All the driers have two ports on them now so if you can package it with the sensor and the binary switch you are done.

If not, there are inline fittings available.

347561-VUR #6 ez clip

34829-VUG #6 beadlock

Parsons noted earlier that GM puts the sensor in the #8 between the compressor and the condenser, that would allow the ecm to see the highest pressure in the system and is likely the best spot for it. When I get to charging the AC, I'll keep an eye on how the fan cycles in relation to pressure and adjust the table as needed. I don't expect a need to do that though.

I have a spare 34098-VUG which comes with the 18103 fitting. That fitting has a Schrader valve in it and I wasn't sure if that would work with the GM switch. They make that so you can swap bi/tri switches without having to empty the system first. I agree that the #8 would be best but VA is only making #6 line t and ports. - hence the need for the 34098 fitting. If I can piggy back the two switch fittings, that would be awesome. I am using the aluminum drier and that has no ports on it.

The metric GM sensors are set up for a schrader as well. The question is does the standard thread sensor seal with an oring on the bottom like the metric one does. If so, this won't work.

I found this site yesterday. These are the #6 male/female inline switch fittings for either the 7/16-20 Trinary switch or the M10X1.25 metric fitting. I have a call into them to make sure that these will work. If so...the switch quandry is over.

Just confirmed with them and these fittings will work
https://coldhose.com/universal-switches.html

So I've got another couple of questions for those in the know.

1. Anybody connect a "clutch-in" sensor to the ECM? It seems that the key to not having decel pop in the exhaust during clutch-in (like a gear shift) is for the ECM to know what the clutch is doing.

2. Any thoughts on adjusting the AC torque vs AC pressure table? The factory AC compressors are variable displacement... while our after-market Sandens are clutch-controlled. Does that make a difference in how much torque is consumed by the compressor for a given amount of AC pressure?

thanks!

Clutch position sensor allows you to enable and use CFCO (clutch fuel cut off) similar in function to DFCO (decel fuel cut off) but obviously triggered off clutch position.

Popping can still occur if spark / fuel criteria when entering CFCO / DFCO is wrong. Many calibrators turn off DFCO to eliminate decel popping as an 'easy' fix - but why fuel an engine that you are not asking to create torque? Takes some time to get CFCO/DFCO entry / exit criteria correct to eliminate pops.

Biggest benefit from CASS (clutch apply sensor switch) is ability to rapidly drop engine RPM's with clutch apply (which puts less load into trans syncro's as well) as CFCO cuts fueling to engine. BTW - later calibrations use potentiometer style CASS - while earlier systems used Top-of-Travel and Bottom-of-Travel switches (separate). You typically cannot change the type of switch used with your particular software.

Your second question while correct - you could adjust table that relates AC compressor torque to pressure, but really makes no difference as you are likely not using torque model (or it is vastly incorrect) if you have modified your engine. The slight load from AC compressor is nothing to the engine (assuming V8's.....). This does assume you do not have spark advanced at idle so much as to remove all reserve torque (which is ability of engine to absorb additional torque loads with negligable effects).

Dave

Thanks Dave. I followed your whole post... I've learned a lot about how GM tunes the LS9 with the E67 in the past few months.

I agree with you about DFCO. Seems like a little time can get that right -- but I am chasing decel popping, and nothing I've done has made any real difference in that. I didn't install a CASS sensor -- though I will on the next car.

My customer's engine is stock, except for the intake tube and exhaust. I'd think the torque model would be pretty close. I've got some histograms defined that I think can help me validate that, though I need a loaded dyno to make sure. In the meantime, I've increased the AC torque table by 10% to see if can get a softer response when I turn on/off the AC.

I've reduced coast down spark to reduce popping on decel and clutch in... I'll post back if I make good progress.

I added about 5-8 degrees of spark advance from 800 rpm to 4000 rpm in the lowest three rows of coast down spark (.08, .12, .16 cyl air), and blended those changes in to the row and columns around that.

Big improvement.

I see the WB go lean during decel (16.00 +) with spark from 28 to 40 depending on rpm, no Knock Retard, and just a hint of decel pop.

Now to fix the occasional stall when rolling to a stop.

Interesting finds John. I have the issue with the engine rpms diving too low when rolling to a stop as well. I had a guy that was helping me do some tuning, but now I am armed with a copy of hp tuners and looking to become dangerous.

Here's the stall scenario:

1. Deep decel due to heavy braking.
2. WB goes lean (15.8), injectors are around .5ms.
3. STFT pegs (+34%).
4. RPM is dropping, and WB begins to fall back. TPS is just above where idle would be. 20% or so.
5. Injectors increase bw to 1.1 ms, WB comes down past stoich as idle speed is reached (800 rpm).
6. Timing begins to advance to help catch the idle (0 to 32 or so). STFT is still at 34%.
7. Engine speed goes to 450 rpm. Sometimes it stalls, sometimes it doesn't.

I fixed the stalling issue in the Minimum Idle Airflow table. (many thanks to Mike Norris!). He suggested some fairly high numbers (as if the car had a big cam), and that immediately cured the stall. I fussed some more and reduced the numbers just a bit from Mike's suggestion and the car returns to idle perfectly.

I think the lesson (perhaps?) is that my intake tube is a bit turbulent due to the tight confines and weird direction of the factory LS9 throttle body. Or maybe the big headers or new injectors required that.

Anyway, as Mike says, the motor wants what it wants. It's time to get this car delivered.

John,

Can you post a screen shot of the table you modified?

Thanks.

Let's try this:

After reading thru this entire 35 pages, I have a question on the fan controller. Right now im running an LS2 w e38. The e38 was from an 08 2500 6.0 truck w clutch fan. I am NOT looking to run the fans in PWM, as my harness is wired to run them on/off. I have a guy that tunes for me w efi live. We eventually got the ecm to work the fans, but they pulse the when running. He can command both fans and they run full speed with no pulse. I believe I am missing the "discrete" setting..., and it is still in PWM mode. This is my first e38 after many 411's in numerous swaps. Also, I am running a trinary switch for the AC. Is there any ecm settings that need to be altered to make all this work together?
Great thread, and thanks for the help.
Scott

Hey Scot,

Have you actually tried plugging that connector body into a C6 fan controller?

Also, the small terminal that you sent me is not the one that you have in the picture above.

Andrew

I have one on the Monte. And have sold close to a dozen, no one has mentioned any problem. What problem are you having? All the parts I have for these I keep in the same box, no other parts, so I don't see any way I could have mixed them up. Send me a pic of the small terminal you have.


Scot

The main connector body needs has cavities between terminals 1/2, 2/3, and 3/4. The cavity between 1/2 is filled, but I was able to clearance it enough so that the guide pins that are on the fan controller can slide in now.

PM me your email address and I can send you the picture of the small terminal (for the PWM wire) that you sent me. It's nothing like the one you have in your picture.

Andrew

Scott. It is possible that you are setup in discrete but the VA system is pulsing the fans through the controller via the trinary switch. I was told by VA that the evaporator controller will turn the AC compressor on and off based on what the probe is seeing in the coils under the dash.

I am in the process of gathering all of the parts to set up my fans to run PWM with the use of a AC pressure switch. It will go in line with the trinary and should allow the fans to work on pressure rather than the state of the compressor clutch. I will be posting all of these parts once I get everything figured out.

I'm not sure that is the case, but I dont know enough about the software to rule that out. On my old setup - 24x LS1, 411 ecm There was an ac wire from the ecm that connected to the compressor 12+ wire. The E38 harness (from same vendor) does not have that feed. I ran the trinary switch on both cars to one of the fan relays. I spliced the trinary with the ecm fan1 trigger wire that goes to the fan relay. On my LS1 setup, this would allow either the trinary signal, or the ecm (via temp) to trigger the fan. It worked well. I wired this car the same way. The E38 was from an LY6 2500, which had a clutch fan. My tuner can command the fans via the laptop and they both run nice & steady. The car is getting some paint touch up right now; I'll revisit this when I get the car back. Thanks for your input. Scott

I too have read all the posts and have a question. I have a LS3/427 with a reprogramed GM ECM from Blue Print Engines. I just purchased a Dewitt radiator with dual Spal fans. Dewitt says I can not run the fans off the ECM (wire already there from ECM). Not a big deal if I can not but I am not sure why not. Comments? Thanks

No ECM control
 

Could you be more specific on what you have (more details)?

What fans do you have from Dewitts. They sell the Spal conventional fans and the DC brushless fans. Control strategy/system is very different depending on which ones you have.

Even with the conventional fans, did they supply the wiring harness? If so how do they have them wires (simple ON/OFF control or High/Low speed using relays more like a earlier GM vehicle).

And then how did Blueprint programming the ECM. What did they expect it to be doing?

And what ECM wiring harness configuration do you have?

I will get the exact specs but the relays and harness for the dual Spal fans are included with basically a on off switch at 195/175. The ECM for the engine is a GM setup with the power wire from the ECM to the fans. I would think it would work since it would send the power when the temp was reached on the engine. Thanks

Unless you are using just an open/closed AC pressure switch in series with trinary, only way to use true AC pressure sensor is to wire to ECM and use it to control fan output based on AC pressure.

GM ECM's actually have an AC clutch output - issue is AC request comes from BCM (body control module) over CAN to ECM then ECM controls compressor. This allows feed-forward control of increased load from AC compressor to be accounted for - preventing RPM sags and droops. Given that most on this site are running V8's with considerable torque reserve (even at idle) usually not an issue without this functionality.

Lacking this capability (integrated BCM), best method is to use Vintage Air (or like) trinary switch to control compressor and AC pressure sensor wired (and calibrated) in ECM to control fans. Not quite OEM, but damn close (and way better than AC on=fan(s) on).

Dave

Yes, I am putting the GM AC pressure sensor in line with the trinary. I can monitor AC pressures and ramp fan speeds based on pressure. The compressor is controlled separately.

2016 CTSV Fan Connector
 

Does anyone know the part numbers for the mating connector on the 2016 CTSV fan. I don't know if it is used other places but figured one of you may know?

http://i.imgur.com/yM7wHTIl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/G9tFVxTl.jpg

Can you post a picture of the fan itself? Is this a 800 watt fan? Presumably a 2016 CTSV uses a PWM controller for that fan...

Andrew

Hey Andrew. Here is a photo from the build thread.

http://i.imgur.com/BFQMxeXl.jpg

The Fan part number is 23455465. I think others have said it is around 850W at maximum, so around 70A roughly. I am sure there are other connectors out there but I was sort of hoping to find this one.

Is this it?

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/f...820_154548.jpg

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/f...820_154629.jpg

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/f...820_154616.jpg

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/f...820_154646.jpg