Little test session at a local autocross today. The best examples of the clutch slipping are at 40 and 49 seconds...



Rear sway bar was disconnected on the driver side and the rear shock rebound was at -7 clicks from full stiff. It still lifted the driver side rear tire twice that I saw which made the pass side rear tire shudder. Still very driveable though, not edgy at all. Not sure what corner exit grip would have been like because every time I was hard on the gas corner exit it would slip the clutch. Rear rolled over a bit more than normal with the rear bar disconnected but really wasn't even that noticeable. I got used to it very quickly.

This issues I have had in the past with loss of grip on corner exit were not evident today with the sway bar disconnected. It would be interesting to see how it would do while really putting the power down on corner exit.

I saw you southbound on 169 yesterday. Car looks exceptionally cool driving down the road!

Thanks! I wasn't speeding was I? :whistling: :angel: :drive:

I was actually on my way (or driving around with) another Lat-G member Mike https://lateral-g.net/forums/member.php4?u=23183 who I met up and hung out with for a while yesterday.

Turns out yet another online friend met in person is NOT an internet ax murderer...my 100% streak is still intact. :D

I sold my LS4 Fiero last week and although I love my replacement, I don't think it will be a racer. SRT Challenger

Why not? I got beat by a late model Challenger in Lincoln last Sept. Nice cars...

I think I'll back out for a drive this afternoon, dang it's nice here this week.

Lance, did you get the clutch issues figured out? I see your looking for cylinder heads also...what's up?

Haven't fixed the clutch yet, it's still slipping if pushed hard. Since the trans has to come out to fix it, I'm contemplating pulling the engine as well and finally cracking the seal on the crate engine. I'm going to lean more toward track days and road course time trials next season instead of autocross, so I can forgo getting the latest fastest trick tires and rear suspension upgrades and concentrate more on going faster in a straight line.

I currently run this crate engine:
http://www.chevrolet.com/performance...ck-ht-383.html
http://www.chevrolet.com/content/dam...83-482x244.jpg

If I bolt on some aluminum Fastburn heads and this cam, it will magically become this crate engine:
http://www.chevrolet.com/performance...nes/sp383.html

http://www.chevrolet.com/content/dam...25-482x244.jpg

Should be a real nice upgrade in upper RPM horsepower while remaining very street-able and reliable.

Might also throw a road race style pan on it while it's out.

I didn't realize these heavy things could handle. Thanks for the info. Now to search for some recommendations.

So a new phase of upgrades has officially started. I finally decided to crack the seal on the crate engine and upgrade the heads and cam in an effort to keep up with the LS powered cars I race against on the straights. I plan on doing more road course events from now on and less autoocross so this was a necessary upgrade and actually makes more sense than upgrading the rear suspension, wheels and tires just to try to keep up with all of the autocross specific CAM cars coming out of the woodwork.

I picked up the top end from a blown up 604 crate engine from a local racer, a set of worked over fastburn heads, 1.5 roller rockers, the 604 cam and a single plane intake. I had our local speed shop do a valve job on the heads since a few of the valves had been hit, ended up replacing three of them, all of the springs were checked and all of the valves were lapped in again.

I'm going to custom order a cam Monday to meet my needs and will reuse my dual plane intake, Q-jet, and MSD and just about everything else. Only thing I'm really swapping out is the heads and cam...but those alone should bump me about 100 hp in all the right spots with only giving up just a scant bit of torque way down low (built in traction control).

So we started today by pulling the transmission and then the engine. Only took about 2 hours to get the trans out, then we inspected the clutch a bit...took some time to loosen up a few things underside...then lowered the car to start under the hood.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psrjtjozju.jpg

The flywheel side wasn't too bad

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...pst3v8crri.jpg

The pressure plate side was toast though

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...pskafwjsgy.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...pst5seje8k.jpg

The flywheel surface is okay, the pressure plate surface has some small ridges in and burn spots on it...so it looks like a whole clutch kit is in order.

This was taken when we stopped for lunch.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...pskwhqmxrb.jpg

About an hour later...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...pszwuiglpd.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psudyfnxvi.jpg

These plugs have been in this engine since my "electric fan upgrade" 5 years ago now. Interesting to look at them and the corresponding header ports.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psof2iyjmi.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psppqovbgz.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psuzincmpv.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psq6rritj5.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psztywxwz7.jpg

In the next day or so I'll start to tear this apart...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psfkjy5kaj.jpg

and get ready to put these heads to good use.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psug00kxe0.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...pswlxbqq8b.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psbav4n7ul.jpg

Purple and yellow is my current engine, Dark blue and Green is what we are shooting for power wise and lite blue and red are a stock LS2 like I'll be racing against.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psszoomcdi.jpg

Nice Lance. About what i just did to the Camaro, pending wiring its ready to fire.

I thought you were running an LS for some reason.

Anyways, looking good, hope to see ya out there one of these daze...

Thanks, I would love to get to an event with all of my left coast friends someday...maybe some day we'll meet in the middle or something (like Pikes Peak maybe? :D )

I'm one of the old SBC stalwarts hanging tough... Hopefully this upgrade gets me back into the ballpark with them LS boys anyway. The old truck engine has served me well for a long time, it put up with a ton of abuse over the years and kept on kicking...

Lance as much racing as you do, and the rpm's that you will constantly see on a road course, I'd recommend a scatter shield, or a steel bellhousing.
Lol on the "stock" LS2 I'm racing against comment. Who in their right mind, would leave their LS2 "stock"? I'm being sarcastic, of course.
Is your current camshaft a roller? Is not, then you'll want to change the gear on your distributer out. It will make a mess inside the engine before you know it.
I love following your thread...it's one of the more practical builds around here, not that the fancy high dollar builds aren't cool...

This engine came with a roller cam and a roller is going back in. The dist gear has been changed already. You are the second person that mentioned a scattershield to me lately. I was always under the impression that was more of a drag race thing. I still don't plan on turning this thing over 6,000 RPM...I just plan on getting to 6,000 RPM faster is all. :D

SBC for life! Cool upgrades, should really wake it up. Any particular reason you're looking at more road course stuff now?

Also, on the issue of a scattershield, I will throw in a big time recommendation for picking one up as well. We exploded a clutch in ours at the drag strip, but it was when it was turning around 6-6,500 rpm just like it does multiple times per run on the autocross course. Lakewood saved my feet for sure - this was so violent we couldn't square the transmission afterward.

Thanks! I think so too.

I just enjoy the seat time one gets with a track day more than the (4) 60 second runs during a full day at an autocross. Also it was going to take some major rear suspension upgrades along with new wheels and tires to get back to being competitive in Solo and I don't really need to make those changes to enjoy myself greatly on road courses. It just makes more sense for me at this time.

I'll still hit up local solo events and maybe some CAM events if the timing works out...but I'm not going to bust my budget trying to be competitive at them. This is purely a selfish move for Lance. :D I'm never happier than I am when driving my car on a road course...

What better way to spend one's birthday...than wrenching out in the shop?

Disassembly just about complete...need to run up to O'Reillys and grab a balancer puller to finish up.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psfnqrhkqf.jpg

Everything looks good to me so far. Was surprised the pistons weren't further in the deck considering what everyone has said about these.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psteci8dlq.jpg

Oh yeah, iron heads weight 48.5# each, Aluminum Fastburns are 22.5# each. 52# savings... Woot!

Cam is out...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psvdt7qrit.jpg

Overall very pleased with what I found.

This is how far the piston is in the deck.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psppi3mvif.jpg

I never have figured out how to read this damn manual caliper... lol... One of these days I'll get me a digital set that tells me what I'm seeing. :D

Rods chamfered to clear pan rail

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psxzfnncke.jpg

Just a couple of cylinder show just the slightest scuffing, this is the worst I saw.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psbw6trmsy.jpg

Most cylinders still have the honing cross hatch visible, no wear edge at the top of the cylinders at all.

Freaking timing cover is plastic and has stamped on it "replace assembly if removed"... I hate the timing mark on it anyway...maybe an aftermarket one is in my future to go with my Canton pan?

Motors really can't be "visually" inspected.... What may appear to be little evidence of wear can be measured in .001".... Bores can be tapered or out of round... guides can be too loose or too tight... Ditto that on bearings and clearances.

The fact that there is no visual "damage" is a good thing....

The weak links will be the cast pistons - the powered metal rods... and the overall "factory" clearances. That motor probably came with a forged crank... a good thing. I always love the guys that tell me their motor is "blue printed" - as if though that is some speed secret... when, in fact, it means nothing more than someone has bothered to measure every spec and make sure that it is actually within spec.

Now you have to ask yourself if you want to push the RPM level.... which - if any - parts need to be improved upon. Maybe none, if you don't want to spin it more than 6,000 RPM's.

I personally short shift the motor in the Mustang - and it has nothing but the best of the best internals... but I figure nobody is paying me to "win" so what difference does it make if I shift at 6,500 vs 7,000....

I think the same way Greg...only I shift at 5500 instead of 6000 RPM. :D

Main thing I was happy to see is no scoring of the cylinder walls, no sign of oil consumption, bottom of the oil pan very clean, everything very clean really. Only sign it has even been run is the little bit of carbon buildup on tops of the pistons.

I'm shocked you're not running a scatter shield.... We abuse the clutches and when they explode - it's a violent matter. It's not just a drag race thing - it's a race thing... but more importantly - like a helmet... it's a safety thing. I like my feet just the way they are.

WhileImatititis...

I spent most of yesterday afternoon contemplating taking it the rest of the way down, checking the bearings, and even hot tanking the block and putting new freeze plugs and cam bearings in it. This way I could clean up all of the oil drain edges, drill holes in plugs, those types of things while at the same time being absolutely certain everything is fresh too. Wouldn't take much more to do it all now vs starting from scratch at a later point.

I think I've changed my mind 3 or 4 times already today as wekk on what to do... I think I'll pull a couple rod caps off and have a look see at the bearings...then decide from there. Local speed\engine shop is slow and offered me a heckuva deal on a full refresh, balance, blueprint, line hone, deck, complete reassembly...the works. And could still have it ready by this weekend if needed (it's not).

Hard to not completely refresh the thing with it all the way down this far but at the same time, this bottom end only has 15,000 easy Sunday drive miles on it now.

If any significant wear shows on any of the bearings, I probably will do it. If the bearings still look brand new...I'll probably just button it back up and call it good.

At least you have a plan.... or an idea of a plan... or are thinking about a plan!! LOL


I know that for me - it's hard to take a "perfectly good running" motor and have it refreshed. But I also know (been there) what happens when you spin a bearing - or window a block etc because we were too lazy to pull things out and check 'em.

We all run this stuff pretty hard - and we EXPECT them to perform flawlessly run after run. Now that you're stepping up to do more road course action... I think you're doing the right thing. Doesn't mean nothing will happen down the road - or even 15 seconds into your second lap... but at least you know you gave it a good once over.

It's .039" or about 1mm. Those are both metric (top scale) and inch.
You read the inboard scale (1:1), each mark is 0.025", then you add what the outboard scale reads (the numbers that line up the closest, 0.014 in your case). So it would be 0.025+0.014=0.039" Even easier, look at the metric scale, it's right at 1mm (or 0.039" :) )

I follow everything you say but this Aaron.

"then you add what the outboard scale reads (the numbers that line up the closest, 0.014 in your case)"

Are you just guessing the 0.014 because the line is halfway between the marks?

If you look at the lowest scale (0-25), the "14" tick mark looks like it lines up the closest to the full (1:1) scale lines. Doesn't matter what line on the 1:1, you read the thousandths column (lowest scale, 0-25).

Of course, in person, another line may line up closer, but from the picture it looks like the "14" tick mark.

*Remember: I tell my guys here at work "never trust calipers as far as you can throw them" lol, I can really wing a caliper, ask me...they are a reference tool only. To get a more accurate number, a quality depth micrometer would be best for that check.

Rods, rod caps, and main caps are all marked with identifying marks (which have been recorded physically and photo documented.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psh25ky3xp.jpg

Pulled #1 and #2 piston

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...pseberln2o.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...pscw9kdruw.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ps5njcdbov.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ps454qru6r.jpg

Saw a bit more wear than I am comfortable putting back together...

I imagine that it would be okay...but considering the horsepower upgrade I'm adding and the abuse I'll be putting it through soon...I've decided to refresh it all. It's on the hook now waiting for the shop to let me know when I can bring it up.

Yeah -- Those bearings have lost their coating - next up - failure!


Good thinking on having it gone thru.

Yup yup...

Shop will hone with torque plates, align hone the mains, balance the crank assembly and everything else and deck the block along with file fit new rings and install new bearings.

Probably even strap it to the dyno to break it back in, get some heat cycles in it, set the valve lash hot, and retorque everything so its run ready once I drop it back in the car. Wasn't the original plan but you have to play with the cards dealt to you...

You continue to do a great job showing us the details Lance. :thumbsup:

Thanks... Mostly it's just me sharing my pain with those that I know can commiserate. :D

The only engines I've ever torn down that didn't need rebuilt were factory engines. Those bearings are toast. They have had debris through them. I'd consider blocking off your bypass.

The builder asked me if I'd ever ran a Fram filter on it because of their bypass. I can't remember what I ran on it in the beginning, for the last 5 years or so it's always had a Wix Gold on it.

My uneducated guess might lean more toward an oil starvation issue than debris but who knows. The engine came with a 4 quart pan on it which I always overfilled to 5 quarts and I have abused it on hard corners for 4 seasons now.

Either way, I'm glad common sense kicked in and I took a look. Now I just have to figure out a way to pay for it... :D

That's always the "pay me now.... or pay me later" question when doing this stuff. Put off what you know you should do now... and pay more for it later. Either way - it doesn't ease the wallet pain.

I read these threads - and read where the guy is saving up to buy some nasty big bad motor and tranny - and I think to myself.... "wow".... I sure hope it's a good one right off the bat! Because, sadly, sometimes they're not. The Oddo motor in the Mustang was a reminder of that. Three track events - three "re-dos".

Now is the time to change that pan if it's still the stock one. Get a larger sump but more importantly get one with road race baffling. I had to do that on the Lotus - the minute I stuck the sticky Yokohama slicks on it.... G loading jumped up to 2 G's..... and that'll have the oil climbing the sidewalls in a hurry.

Lance, call me when you get the engine all buttoned up. I'd like to see what I am up against for next season! :idea:

What machine shop are you using for the refresh?

Greg, a 7 quart Canton 15-250T with appropriate pickup is already on the way to me (right Ron Sutton? :D )...this was ordered before I even started to disassemble the engine. https://www.cantonracingproducts.com...-1-PIECE-SEAL/

Probably also looking at an oil pump upgrade, don't need to get crazy here with a HV pump but an upgrade to a Melling 10552 seems like a prudent choice.

The idea is to do everything I can to help keep this engine alive given the abuse I plan on putting it through. A combination of parts and labor that all work well together without completely blowing the budget out of the water or compromising reliability.

Patrick, it's up at Yancy's here in town.

One issue that I knew I was going to have to deal with when changing to the fastburn heads was header fitment. It wasn't until yesterday when my fastburn specific header gaskets finally got here that I was able to determine exactly what I was going to have to change to use my headers with these heads.

The fastburn exhaust ports are raised approx 3/16"s vs regular SBC heads while the bolt holes appear to be in the same spot. This header gasket fits the exhaust port on the heads perfectly. Here it is up against my 1 5/8" header flange with the bolt holes lined up.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psckrzsxrw.jpg

You can see how the top of the gasket is covering about 1/8-3/16" of the exhaust port. If the header was just bolted to the heads like this it would not only most likely leak like a siv but also kill the exhaust port flow.

Here is the header gasket lined up with the header tube openings.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psaayifjxo.jpg

The header openings are large enough to cover the exhaust ports but the holes are going to have to be slotted to move the header up on the head. I have commissioned John to this task as I'm certain that I'd bugger it all up. :D

Opening the holes up shouldn't be that big of a deal but we want to fill in at least a couple of the holes on each side to give the header bolts something to sit against to keep them from sliding back down during or after install.

Since these are mid-length headers, raising the headers shouldn't cause me any other fitment issues on the car. If they were full long tubes I might be concerned about floor clearance or something like that but I don't think there will be any other issues.

The engine builder called yesterday, said the middle rod bearings were real bad...like ready to spin bad.

He also asked "Are you going to run the manual trans flywheel you dropped off?" I replied "well yeah" He said..."because I thought Monte Carlos only came with automatics..."

:D

There has been progress... :D

Not many pictures but I did get to visit my engine at the shop yesterday while delivering the rest of the parts for assembly. The machine work on the block is finished and the rotating assembly is installed. I dropped the cam and rest of the parts off and in the next day or so they'll finish up reassembly and prepare the engine for a dyno session.

One side of the block had a bad taper to the deck so he decked both sides to square it up, pistons now sit .0015 in the hole. The crank was 30 grams out of balance and that was cleaned up as well as a fresh plate hone and new rings and bearings installed.

This showed up the other day which hopefully along with a new oil pump will help with any future oil starvation issues.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psvti4xehw.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psgedirfyz.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psiws80rbr.jpg

More to come hopefully very soon!

Dyno day tomorrow...


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psrqfopsk6.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psntp2zidb.jpg

Still working on a few small issues, like the headers. We'll run the shop headers if I don't get mine ready but there is still a chance. Also want to change up the valve covers a bit now that I have heads that will take a perimeter bolt set. Again, this won't stop us from running it on the dyno.

Woo Hoo!!

Lance I noticed in an earlier post you had the open plenum intake pictured with the new heads and cam. I see that you will be testing with what appears to be a duel plenum intake. Is there a reason for this? I have the ZZ383 that has the open plenum intake and I have been wondering how this would affect my low end torque. I have not had the opportunity to fire up my motor. Once you have the headers will you please post a picture of the work you had done. I will have to do the same thing to mine and I would like to see how yours turns out. Thank you. Car looks great and good luck with all the work.