Classic/Pro Touring Auto insurance Question
 

Hello:

I was reading a past thread listed on this site. Steve was asking questions about "Penny", and a discussion commenced regarding the best insurance carriers for our Type of cars.

The 3 Carriers Mentioned most favorably were, Grundy, Heagerty and Parrush Heacock.

I want to see if anyone has any additional information regarding this. As you know, "Lateral-1" will be here (In Texas) Friday morning and I would like to get the insurance started asap.

If you have any contacts, phone number, or agent you would recommend, please feel free and post it or PM me.

I really want to set this up correctly from the get go, so I can concentrate on other things.

Also, please mention specifically what items I need to be aware of and how to deal with them.

If you want to know about the car, please click here.

https://lateral-g.net/members/magers/

I appreciate in advance your comments.

Thanks,

Ty O'Neal

the first thing i recommend to anyone is to first check with the provider for the insurance on your daily drivers. because i insure my daily vehicles through state farm, they hook me up big time with agreed value policies on my classics. by hook up i mean i pay about $20 a year for my 54 and have a $20,000 replacement value(that needs upped again) and around $100 a year for my cadillac. I had an accident with the caddy 2 years ago - the "blue book" value was around $700 on the car but the NADA collector value was around $4,300. so instead of claiming it was worth $700 and trying to total it out on the $900 of damage, they were cool and went the proper way basing it on the collector value and not the plain old "27 year old american car" blue book value.

Pat, please check your policy carefully as so far every policy we've checked from State Farm classic policies are stated value, not agreed value. This has been brought up dozens of times and many guys with SF think they have agreed value; so far nobody does. Check your policy wording for something similar to this:

The most we will pay for “loss” in any one “accident” is the least [emphasis added] of the following amounts minus any applicable deductible shown in the Schedule:


1. The actual cash value of the damaged or stolen property as of the time of the “loss”;

The cost or repairing or replacing the damaged or stolen property with property of like kind and quality; or

2. The amount shown in the schedule.


The actual cash value part allows them to look at comps, and if they find a "comparable" vehicle to yours for a lower value that's what you'll get, no matter what value is on the policy. A true agreed value policy does not mention ACV, comps, etc., just the amount of payout.

Here's a link to the difference between the two. And don't believe your agent as he is often incorrect too. You need to get agreed value coverage from a collector car insurance company. Nothing wrong with SF, have had them for over 20 years on my work equipment, but not on the old cars. My agent even told me not to use their policy.

http://www.faia.com/web/2005/08/stat...eed_value.aspx

If I had a dollar for every person that THOUGHT they had agreed value but in reality had stated value I could have bought an LS7 instead of an LS2.. lol

I would like info on this as well. What is the best way to insure a collector car?? We called Haggerdy and they asked us a million questions and then quoted us a price whereas Grundy asked the type of car and value and that was it. I felt a little better with Haggerdy but they were about a grand more then Grundy.

Whos had some good experiences/bad experiences?
-derek

I have a story on this in the next issue of PHR.

Haggerdy and Grundy are not fans of modified and the like cars. They nearly fell over when I said I had a roll bar and Grundy wanted me to sign a paper that says I won't race or run the car. They really wont even cover you driving to the track.

Heacock Classic (the new name of Parrish Heacock) seemed the most liberal. He would cover your drive to the track.. and in the pits but not in the staging lanes or making a pass/lap.

Make sure your collector car insurance covers the same liability limits as your normal car. It's silly to carry 100/300 on your daily and 25/50 on your classic, do you want to loose your house if it's your fault?

Also, make sure you have adequate uninsured AND UNDERINSURED coverage. I've seen Haggerty and Grundy offer a smoking deal but the liability limits and uninsured coverages are lower than nomal (hence a better deal)

Ask LOTS of questions.. buying coverage is more than just finding the best deal and the highest "agreed value"

Neither Haggerty nor Grundy would insure my 1970 Camaro... "too many modifications". Stating the supercharger and mini tubs were "off road performance modifications".

yet they'll insure twin turbo, mini-tubbed, roll bar equipped cars for me. It seems to be whatever they feel like on the particular day.

Jody

==============================================

Sounds like Heacock Classic might be the best route to go.

This car I have does have the mini-tubs and a Roll Bar + a few extra goodies. Yes I want to drive it hard at times, but, I'm not un-afraid of crashing, so I don't take dumb ass chances.

Stuff happens, and if it does, I want Damn good insurance. I understand them not wanting to insure a Car while Racing, however I think it's crap to not insure a car because it CAN be raced.

Could someone please post contact information. I would like to work with someone who has a clue. I would rather not break in a newbie.

I currently carry 500/500/100 with PIP of $10,000.

Any advise on this type of coverage?

Based on the car, "Lateral-1", what would be a decent replacement cost on a car like this?

I have a purchase price, plus the cost of additional items I've had to buy to get it here and up to date.

However, Mark is very competent, and I'm not sure how to put a value on re-building this car with someone of his skill.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Ty

Here you go... www.heacockclassic.com

I talked with Gary Gandy there.. He's the underwriting manager. Tell him I said hello. lol

The most annoying thing about ALL collector car insurance companies is the "you can't drive it to work" deal.. ever.. Heacock seemed pretty good though.

Frank from Prodigy uses them and seems very happy.

This is unreal. A few months ago before we started Michael's 86 Monte Carlo SS project, we called Gieco to see if there was going to be any issue adding this car. We wanted $20,00 in endorsments (additional dollar protection) for paint, wheels, tires, and misc (could not list any engine mods, we knew they would flip if they saw nitrous and had any clue of the real horsepower). They gave me a quote of $447 every 6 months with no limitations as a 5th car / toy in the household. Geico is covering 5 of them right now tht Lisa, michael and myself all all covered. Not the Hot Rods, they are with Peacock Classic. So anyway, I call a couple days ago as now the car is fully sorted and on the road, to add it as quoted 5 months ago, and they tell me they will not cover it. Not only will they not cover the car they quoted (because the endorsment is more then the value of the base car. They book it at somewhere between $5k and $7k, find a nice SS for that). but they refuse to cover it without any endorsment at all. In other words, they will not cover it as a Monte Carlo with no additional endorsement because it is "to custom' for them.

Now we need conventional insurance for this one without any classic car limitations. There is a bit of a issue with Michaels age and "technically" he cannot drive any of the Hot Rods as there are specific no males under 25 Y/O clauses. And even though Michael would never drive one of those cars. Let's just say if he did, we would be assuming liability if he bumped into anyone! Now if there is a emergency at Steak and Shake on a Saturday evening and he has to use one of these cars to get there, well I can assume that liability. But I cannot assume liability 365 days a year. We need conventional insurance for the Monte. So as of today, Gieco has us a bit screwed. So here we are about $30k deep (parts / materials value not counting a penny of labor) and we canot insure it through our 10 loyal insurance company that quoted us and said they would cover it before we ever put a penny in it.

It's a real problem right now. Big enough we may sell the monte (Michael says HELL NO!) if we cannot insure it. Those cars are to popular of a theft item not to have coverage. Damn gieco sucks! Some other insurance company the cover this thing for a resonable agreed policy is going to get a BUNCH of insurance from a family with decent drivers reconrd and no serious claim history.

I will let you know what we end up with. UGH!

This is why I love this site. You all have a wealth of knowledge and are always helping people out. Thank you to all. I do have a question. I am going today to get insurance on my 67' Camaro. I am going through my insurance company which is Allstate. After talking with them, they suggested I go through Haggerty. After I told them what I had, they asked me what the value was. I told them $25,000. They gave me a quote of $247 for a year.

Now comes the question. If I totaled my car, would they send me a check for $25,000 or would it be a fight because it is a stated value. And what is the difference between stated value and agreed value? If they ask what the value is, they should not issue a policy with out knowing that if I total my car they owe me $25,000.

Thanks again
Matthew

read this link, should answer the question. If your question involves Allstate insuring your car, it is stated value, and no, you are not guaranteed $25K. That's the most they'll pay, but they will first determine actual cash value, and even though the car is insured for $25K, if they can find a "comparable" car(s) for less that's the value they'll pay on. That is the right of a stated policy.

http://www.faia.com/web/2005/08/stat...eed_value.aspx

Just out of curiosity, if they recommended Hagerty on a classic why would you even pursue having them insure the car? I have Allstate on all my personal daily drivers, for over 20 years. But they'd never get the policy for the Chevelle or anything similar.

Jody

Jody,

Thanks for the information. The only reason I called my insurance agent is I was just going to add it to my current policy. But to add it as a thrid car was going to cost me $400 for six months. But while we were talking, one of her coworkers suggested that they could get the insurance for me through Haggerty. I assume they were going to be a third party broker. That was the only reason. I did not even think that they would mark up the price, but I could be wrong. Does it sound unusual to you that they would offer this to me?


Matthew

I have 4 cars, 2 trailers, 1 ATV and Homeowners insured with State Farm. They would not write an agreed value policy for the Monte Carlo. Haggerty refused it because I disclosed the car had nitrous (at that time) I ended up with Grundy on a 30K agreed policy. I can live with the restrictions because I end up being within them anyway.

How was the price. I assume it was reasonable. And how long did the process take? I am ready to drive it now...:D

Another vote for Heacock here, since they were the only ones I called who would give me an agreed policy for my car with a roll cage.

grrrr! i hate hearing/reading classic insurance talk, i tried every company and could get a policy,thanks to my age(22) so im stuck with msrp for 3 more years...

I managed to get an agreed value without the language you specified.
This only happened because I used my companies general liability carrier.

Besides our companies liability insurance, they also cover our auto policy. That policy had 11 work trucks, 05 mercedes and 2007 corvette prior to adding my camaro.
It helps when you spend an average $400k year on insurance. And another $250k for Workman's comp.

They didn't have any trouble giving me exactly what I wanted. I insured my car for $100k.

Rich

I called my insurance company back up to ask some questions. I told her i wanted the valueto be $25,000 for the car. She said no problem. Then I asked her if it was stated value or a agree value. She told me that it is a agreed value. Then I asked how much. She ran the numbers and told me for a one year policy it will be $241.

Is the agreed value policy the one I want. Just want to check so I do not get screwed later if something was to happen.

Thanks
Matthew

who is the policy through?

Jody

Ask to see the policy.. it needs to say AGREED policy.. and have the right lauguage. I certainly wouldn't take her word for is :)

I just got back from the insurance office. We filled out all the paperwork and sent it off, we will see what happens. The insurance will be through Hagerty. I listed everything on the car and put a value of $25,000. She sent in the information along with all the pictures. Now I just have to wait for one of thier appraisers to look at the application. She made sure that it was an agreed policy. That is why I have to wait to get aproval from them. She said it will take then 4-5 days to process the paperwork, so now I just have to wait and see what happens.

I will keep you informed of what they say.

Matthew

anyone know what someone under the age of 25 could do for car insurance on their car, besides waitings 5 years to turn 25?

Hagerty ONLY does agreed value and are you sure $25k is enough to replace your car?

Also, what's your uninsured motorist coverage and what are your liability limits???

That makes me fell better. At least i know that i will be fully covered. As for the value, I feel that subjuctive to opinion. I feel that is a fair value as my car dones not have near as many mods as most. This was my first PT project. My car not have the LS motor or fancy interior...Yet. As I do upgrades to the car I will up the value with the insurance. I assume that is possible.


The limits are set to what is required by my state. Should I up the coverage on these too

from what i know NO:mad:

im with steve on this one regardless of what mods are done if its even cleanly restored it should be covered for more.

Why would you EVER carry less liability coverage on your play car compared to your daily????

If you get in an accident (heaven forbid) that's your fault in your "play car" you will be screwed with the lower coverage. If you have any assets consider them gone. What if the guy you hit has $100,000 in medical bills and you have $50,000 in coverage? Do you have $50k laying around?

If a certain coverage limit is "necessary" on your daily then under what circumstances would it not be good to have the same on your other car? If you're in an accident with fault they wont care what car you were driving.

This is the one MOST IMPORTANT thing I learned doing my Insurance story. Just things to think about.. don't get fixated on a low payment and on what the car is covered for. :)

I know I would have a hard time finding a NICE car for $25k.. his seems pretty nice. It doesn't cost hardly anything more for a bit more coverage. Ask yourself "what would it cost to replace my car if it's stolen?"

What if it's hit bad? My car cost over $25k to fix and if your car was my car it still would have cost $25k. This means your car would have been totaled. Would you be happy to trade your car for $25k?

Just trying to help you work though this.. it's a big decision. :)

One thing we learned with my dad's '56 is, get it appraised! If you built the car yourself, you may not realize the actual value. I know that sounds silly, but when we got the results of the appraisal, dad was quite surprised! :wow:

http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/7273096.jpg

Shiny Side Up!
Bill

==============================================
Steve:

Thanks a million for the contact information. I contacted them on their web page, and will phone them on Monday. Since you use them, and our cars are somewhat similiar. (Yours of Course is much more polished and refined) I think these folks might be the right people for me to work with as well.

If anything pops up with them about Penny, please PM me and I'll do the same. I am pretty certain that the value of this car will be fairly high when I am (Technically) done with it.

Thanks again for your input.

Regards,

Ty

For what it’s worth, I’ll share my experience after going through a complete insurance adjustment on the daily drivers and two Camaros over the last few months. Here’s the scenario – I live in Florida, have 5 cars and four drivers in the household. Household drivers include my wife, daughter (21) and son (18) and me. The cars are a 04 Honda Pilot, 04 Mustang GT, 99 Jeep Cherokee, 69 Camaro ($48K appraisal) and 67 Camaro ($52K appraisal). I previously had all the cars with ANPAC with coverage at 250/500 level for each. Both Camaros cost about $750 a year with stated value under their Chrome coverage (no nitrous, no racing, under 7500 mi/yr, locked garage). History wise, we had no problems with ANPAC service to include an accident with one of the daily drivers that was 100% the other drivers fault. Since I'm over 50 and an AARP member, I took at look at the old guy rates through Hartford. I was surprised to find that the annual Hartford estimate for the three drivers was about 1/2 the annual ANPAC rate for the same coverage. However, the Camaro coverage’s were way, way higher and there were a lot more restrictions. So my plan was to move the daily drivers to Hartford and keep the two Camaros with ANPAC. No so fast. The ANPAC rules require you to have a daily driver on the policy to get their Chrome Class rate. They grandfathered me for my current policy term but the new term rates got my immediate attention. The premium for the two Camaros under the ANPAC policy went up to about $4K a year for exactly the same coverage I previously had for $750. The reason was that without a daily driver, ANPAC tags one of the Camaros as a daily driver and the rate skyrocketed. After many Q&A sessions with very helpful ANPAC and Hartford reps (as well as looking at the other classic car insurance companies) I ended up insuring two of the drivers with Hartford and one driver and the two Camaros with ANPAC. This may not be the ideal solution, but it was the best I could come up with. The overall result is (starting tomorrow) I have the same coverage as I previously had, the two Camaros went back to their old rate (~$750K/year for both - stated value) and it reduced my total annual premium for all five cars by about 45% over what I paid last year. FYI, the ANPAC stated value is defined as actual cash value, amount to repair or replace or amount shown on the declaration. I realize that stated value is not ideal for the Camaros but the ANPAC requirements more closely match how I really use them. Also, both policies cover all four drivers in the house so my son can drive the Camaros without worry (insurance ones anyway). Should something catastrophic happen to the Camaros, I know I’m in for a ride. But, I’ll go forward armed with photos (hundreds for each from day one) and receipts for everything (even the ones my wife doesn’t see) and hope for the best. Hope, of course, wasn’t a word I noticed in any of the policy language.

thanks for the info Jack. Stated value can be the only option for those who daily driver their classics, and as long as a guy knows what he's got for coverage it works well. The problem is many people with State Farm, Allstate, etc. think they have an agreed value policy and are guaranteed of a dollar amount in a full loss, and that is simply not true. The ACV (Actual Cash Value) part of the policy tells you it is stated, not agreed. How do they determine ACV? By finding comparable cars to yours and seeing what they're selling for. The value on your stated policy is the most they'll pay, not the guaranteed amount like an agreed policy.

I always want people to know the difference and then make a decision on what's best for them.

Good first post and welcome to the site! :thumbsup:

Jody

Thanks Jody. As you mentioned, the important thing is to know what you have. Like me, I suspect a lot of folks don't want to go through the mental anguish of planning for the worst and then hearing the insurance they thought met their need provides something less than what they think is either right or fair. One thing for sure is that the paperwork is definately confusing and often contradictory. For example, one of ANPACs form letters defines stated value for the Chrome class as "In the event of a total loss to your specialty vehicle, ANPAC will pay you the amount shown on your policy, less deductable." I really liked that definition until I received a different letter, signed by the same person and dated two days later, that provides the the other definition for stated value (lesser of ACV, the amount to repair/replace or the amount in declaration). Nowhere does the term Agreed Value appear. Phone discussions with their rep to clarify the point (she was great by the way) made it pretty clear that the second definition that favors the insurance company is the more accurate one. Anyway, it works for me since neither of the Camaros are used for daily transporatation but I do drive the 69 Camaro every chance I get to nearby cruise ins and shows. By the way, the Chrome info letter says it has a 10,000 annual mileage allowance but the policy paperwork I got yesterday (the one that counts I suppose) says 7500. Last year's mileage really started adding up after I hit a few out of town shows, an Orlando visit to Old Town Kissimmee and a few legs of the Powertour. I think I did about 6500 so I'm still in the comfort zone.