Realistic build cost
 

Hi everybody.
As a shop owner I am always triing to keep a handel on where the market is going and how cost are influnceing what and how guy's [and gals] are building their cars. What do you feel are realistic cost's for metal and paint work, chassis fabrication's or up grade's, drive train's [engine,trans ect.]. compared to some of the other site's I go on such as www.trifive.com or say www.streetrodding.com the car's on this site for the most part are way over the top in comparative build process's. so I would really appriciate your imput.
thank's and have a great day :thumbsup: Larry www.llcustomperformance.com

Larry I can tell you from a shop stand point it is way more than most pepole think it cost to build these car's that we all love so much. Just from fixed cost at our shop taxes are almost $30,000.00 a year :faint: and that dose not include the patment to the bank every month. From a build cost stand point we charge $75.00 per hr and we bill t/m. We have a 69 Chevelle that will be going out the end of this week. We did a under car resto took the body off the frame sandblast prime and paint everything back to new all new parts to long story short the customer wanted to be around the $7500.00 mark just added up and to date he's at $21,000.00. Now he know where he is at with this build so there is no suprises for him and he pay as he goes. i quoted a job a couple of weeks ago the whole build minus eng and trans (he wants to do something) but mini tub quadra link wheels tire's paint stock guts but all new. He wants a show car I gave a qoute for $100,000.00. Now that does include the car also which we have. You know owning your own shop how the cost can get out of hand really quick. I'll add more later got to go give the kids a shower:yes:

Rick
Thanks for the reply. I think as shop owner's anyone of us can relate to all the cost of running our buisness's. Recently I sold the big shop and am now moveing back to the old shop next to my rural home. Going from 10,000 sq ft with an in house media blast system and a down draft booth [ which I sold both pieces of equipt.] back to a 4,500 sq ft with a cross draft. is going to take some getting use to. but the shear cost of running that monster, was priceing me out of the market. lot's of potential customer's and nice prodject's ' but the market in central Wi bear's about 50.00 per hour and my accountant said it needed to be more like a 100.00 per hour.
But the reason I started this tread was to get a feel of what the average guy really thinks is a resonable price for this kind of work and what his or her expectation's are for thier investment. and hopefully a few more shop guys will pitch in and we will all come away with a more informed attitude of what can be expected all the way around. :D have a great day Larry:thumbsup:
www.llcustomperformance.com

we qoute by the job get paid by the hour. hAving a car built is not for the faint at heart its get expensive real quick.

I like the idea of a quote by the job.

Ain't that the truth! :thumbsup:

30-50k if you do everything yourself
60-100 if you don't, and thats a mid grade car.

Thats why its usually cheaper to buy a complete car than have one built. I worked at a rod shop before and watched builds skyrocket quick.

It is cheaper, but all you are buying is what somebody else wanted, and then beat up. I would rather pay more and have exactly what I want.

The price of the car is directly related to the level of creativity and craftsmanship that a shop can demonstrate. Look at Rad rides, their labor rate is 55-65 an hour. But they just built the most expensive hot rod yet with the ridler car. But those boys can throw down, if you can dream of it and pay for it they can build it. There are very few shops that charge 100 per hour where you get your monies worth. Steve Moal come to mind as a rare exception, but not to many more. Most of the guys who do really amazing work are in the 55-75 per hour for a full tilt hot rod shop. The labor rate should have to do with the tools that the shop has to speed up the fabrication process.

I had a customer of mine us a local sheetmetal guy to do the chop on his truck. They charged him for a 125 hours @ 40 dollars per hour, to chop a pick up. The quality was good, but they do not have an english wheel or planishing hammer, so the made all the filler pieces with a hammer and dolly.
We chopped a sedan a few months ago and did the whole thing in 85 hours, because we have kick ass tools that speed things up. My labor rate is 55 currently, but we could have done his truck in 85 hours. Which is 4675. He asked me when he was done and I told him we could have done it cheaper because we can get more work done in that same hour.

When I had my front clip redone the right way, I asked for an estimate. Answer was "$75/hour". I pushed for a rough idea of total cost, response was "$75/hour". I pushed once more for a ballpark figure, the answer was "$75/hour".

I learned my lesson. Good builders don't tease you with lowball numbers and then bang you on the other end. They put in the time to do the job right and then charge you accordingly. It's painful, but so is finding out that the job cost double or triple the estimate. Only the "up front estimate" approach can lead to hard feelings.

That's why I make and sell parts for a living and build cars for fun. :rofl:

So you figured out you will never get rich building cars, smart man

Hi Larry,

I recently checked some of the local shops here in IND and all were 50 - 55 per hour + T/M. Range I checked was full service shops with chassis jig, tube benders, full fab, paint booths, etc - to smaller shops that did just bolt-on, replacement stuff and minor fab/patch work.

Jim

Gosh, it's not the money. After watching American Hot Rod, I decided that I never want to dye my hair. :rofl: Edit: ...Or dress like a Motel 6 curtain.

Wel then I guess you will have to resort to selling parts, cuz building cars is a non money making career, until you get a TV show.

So let me tell you about the parts i'm working on bringing to market soon....

Realistic Build Equation = What you think it will cost x 2. Math 101. It works pretty much every time for me, LOL.

...and don't forget twice as long. "Twice as much and twice as long"

Sounds about right to me.

Well you also have to figure in additional time for makeing all those part's fit some other guy is getting rich SELLING :rofl: :rofl: . All kidding aside I think Stuart has it figured best, Just when you think everything is going according to plan it all blow's up in your face, whether your a professional or a do it yourselfer. have a great day:thumbsup: Larry

That is true also. Good one.

Took the words right out of my mouth!:willy:

on flat rate jobs, i usually bid it at $75/hr. figuring the lil things that come up will even the job out to the standard 55/hr rate i charge.

flat rate jobs are all about how accurate the "bid" is, because its flat rate, the customer gets charged what they were quoted. anything the customer decides to add-on gets billed T/M @standard shop rate.

some jobs get a better deal than others **cough...anthony...cough**, and that part of the biz is purley political....im sure frank can relate in regards to his media whore.

the prostreet 57 was 100% T/M and the build was somewhere in the 160k range...however that includes a 50k chunk wasted at the 1st shop.

hope that helps a lil

I'm by no means a rich man, so I'm taking as cautious and direct a route to my build as I can. I don't foresee it being done for much under $35K, and while it will be nicer than 90% of the cars in my area, I'm going about it as inexpensively as possible and doing all the work myself sans the paint and machine work.

Car - $3500
Body shop (buddy deal, 1/2 price) $10K, a non-rotisserie frame off top to bottom, floors, quarters, trunk/wheelhouse outers.
Interior, A/C - $3000
Wheels/tires - $3000
Drivetrain (tranny/rearend) - $5500
Engine $4000
Suspension/brakes $4000

This will be a nice car, good solid, daily driver. It will have all the right features and touches to make it a PT car and handle well, etc. But it won't have any exotic parts. Standard leaf/coil DSE/Koni suspension, C5 or wilwood brakes, 18" wheels, non tubbed, mostly stock interior with the exception of the Arizen seats, it's a 'bolt-on' car.

I can see that doubling with the more exotic chassis, engines and interiors, fabrication work, etc.

I could buy a car for this, but it won't be 'My' car.

EXACTLY!!!!!!!:cheers:

John

just curious has anyone of the camaro guy's ever figured out what it would cost to buy everything is DSE catalog for there car.

very interested knowing what it would cost

:yes:, LOL.

When customers bring in there cars they tell me what's in them,100,000 is about average on pro builds,it does'nt take much to get at that price range with a nice car that can get a pick at the shows.Most guys can rack up 50 grand in parts before labor.street rods or street machines.Just think what the 5 finalists at columbus cost this year.

$350,000

Who cares that 32 is BAD A$$!!! I drooled over that car in Columbus all day Ron. :thumbsup:

Jeff
You got that drool on my camara while I was taking pictures of Ron's 32.

Build cost for my 67 Chevelle

Car I already own $$$
Frame from Art Morrison 15K
Big Block already own $$$
ProCharger 5K
Brakes 2-3K
Wheels and tires 5K
Stainless steel plumbing 2K
Paint (I'll do the body) 10K
Cage...mail order plus some extras 1k
Seats (GTO take outs) 1K
Transmission (T56 Viper ebay) 1K
Misc for trans install 2K
Interior (down payment on Tracy's new vacation home)

Misc fabrication extras, cool new tools for my garage, parts I have build twice or more, being cheated by so called experts, parts that don't fit or don't perform as sold, dumb ideas that won't work as planned, experts who say you're next on the list, but really you're next to last on the list, parts that can't be returned because they were 'special ordered', new girl friend because the old one dosen't like that you spend every moment of every day thinking about your "car", 40K more or less

Emails or phone calls not returned by vendors who you really want to buy parts from (the latest steve morris racing engines) I'm trying to give you money for something you want to sell ((dam I wish I was rich enough to not return phone calls or emails)) PRICELESS


Mick

It's actually a very simple formula to determine what a pro build will cost! As follows:

Final build cost = What you thought x 3

See? Easy!

John

Tell me about it, heh

Is your Chevelle done? Are there pics posted? Sounds cool.

i have done a couple cars i have owned i tired to set up a budget but i always ended up with double spent on the car.sometimes you wont find tell you striped it. i have found some bad repairs from bondo filled holes to sheet pop riveted over a hole in a floor pan.

I've documented every penny spent on my project - right down to nuts, bolts & washers.

it seems that a realistisc cost always comes out at whatever you think is a realistic budget multiplied by three... and the same goes for the time....

Thanks for all the imput guy's. I have to say your alot more open mind and have a more realistic grasp of what is involved and the cost of these prodject's than on some of the other forum's I have posted question's simaler to this. As a shop owner I know that these price's are a realality not a fantasy. But I still can't help but wonder how long we can keep going before the investment destroy's the hobbie as we know it:rolleyes: . Well good luck to all of you and have a great day :thumbsup: later Larry :cheers:

thanks alot next time your around come say hello and I'll let you sit in it ron

About 5% of the cars get 98% the magazine coverage and the other 95% of the hobby goes completely unnoticed by the general public. About 30% of the cars at shows are built entirely by professional shops. Only a few of those are super high dollar ground breaking builds. The other 70% do the majority of work themselves either at home or trailering the car to this shop and that shop for certain segments of the build.

I really realized how big this hobbie is beyond the pros pick area at Columbus. There were about 10 million cars I never saw @ Columbus.

All of this is in my own opinion. Of course

Rodger

Ron W

I took pictures of your 32 at Columbus (you commented on the pictures) and the car is outstanding (duh, it was a top five).
What was your motivation for your build?
I saw the Johnson emblem, and you stated the price, how did you select your builder?
Can you reveal the number of hours in the build?
Was the proximity to you or their past projects or their hourly rate a major deciding factor?

I have met some builders who have the personalities that seems to at least make you feel comfortable about the long term relationship you both are building for the thousands of hours of work.

I met Troy several times and he has the personality to make you feel comfortable. Beside the quality of the final prodect (the waiting list is in the 20's (I heard)) I don't think I can afford that level of build.

I know I have met with or tried to meet with several builders trying to get a feel for how they do things, and their level of interest in my project, and do both of our personalities get along, after all, it is a long term commitment, just curious how you made your decision.



Mick

No wonder why that project is NOT finished! Two issues at hand. :yes: The time it takes you to document all that info. Plus the fact you keep a running tab gives you holy crap batman look how much i"m spending! :lol:

R.P.