Max G Chassis Install Shop???
 

I am very close to ordering a max g chassis from art morrison for my 69 camaro.

I have my entire floor, trunk, inner rockers, firewall and wheel housings cut out in order to cut back on labor cost.

Before I order the frame I want to have decided on a shop to do the work. I am currently looking for a shop to have the tin work done... basically mounting the body on the frame, doing a floor, trunk, tubs and firewall.

I live near near New York City and I have contacted Mark Markow Race Cars and Hot Rods Incorporated. I am probably going to end up going to one of them as I dont want to travel more than 3hrs. One quoted me 6g and one quoted me 5g. Does anybody have any experience with either one of them and how does that price sound?

Mike

Thats one of those "ballpark" numbers. Its very hard for a shop to put a cost on something without seeing or having the car / chassis in front of them unless they have done enough of those exact jobs. There are always unforseen issues that make or usually break the "budget bank". However those est. sound fair at best. Do you have items like wheels /tires (for well size and placement), fuel tank / cell (for trunk floor fabrication) etc ?
How do you propose you are going to transport the car with all that cut out ?
Seems like it would want to collapse on itself without alot of temporary bracing.

Competition Specialties is up in that part of the country and is VERY experianced installing those frames. To me 5G to 6G sounds light, that is only 100 hours or so and about half what I would estimate. If those are hard numbers and you trust the workmanship I would say go for it.

Hey thanks for considering AME for your project. If you want, we can get you a list of people up in the northeast that have done this sort of install. Competition Specialties is definitely a good shop and they are a great customer. :thumbsup:

I dont have the wheels/tires but I have decided on 18x12" for the rear with about 6" of backspacing so this way I know how long the axle has to be and so they can make tubs accordingly. I dont have a fuel tank yet but I dont want a cell in the trunk, so that should be a good enough starting point. The car has bracing throughout the interior and I will probably put something together so I can transport it.

Thanks, that would be great. Im sure you have a more extensive list than I managed to put together. Comp Spec has a wicked Pro-Touring Camaro up on their site with your frame underneath it so theres evidence right there that they are more than capable.

I would say that 200-250 hrs is a safe est. Depending on what shops charge, you can gauge your own estimate from that. I think that having all your loose parts like wheels/tires and fuel tank would help in coming up with a solid plan up front. Also knowing what modifications you want and or will need up front would benifit you and your builder in coming up with a master plan.
We're in NJ.
Feel free to call me to discuss further.

I definitely plan on a fuel tank from ricks hot rod and 18x12 wheels in the rear. Given that the tank can be made to your specs is it necessary to have the tank pre-frame/floor construction. Also given a wheel width and backspacing, is it necessary to have the actual parts on hand?

Besides having a flat firewall and trans tunnel(4l80e) fabbed up what else would be necessary for the front end?

no reason to do a ricks tank unless yo u have him build you a custom tank, no reason for stock in a non stock floor car.
i would look into fuel safe, atl for fuel cells

thanks for the tip.. i just saw everybody running rick's fuel tanks and assumed it was the benchmark for road racing.

Morrison knows the backspacing for the front and rear wheels and the correct rear end widths well enough you can proceed without having the actual wheels. Your builder will probably need your engine trans for floor / firewall work

Rick's tanks are not good out of the box for road racing. The tank doesn't have inner baffles with fuel doors, or check balls. The tank we now have from Rick's is a road race tank specifically designed for road racing, and fast driving. The difference in cost is about $1000. Talk to Hector at Rick's if you want this add on. It's well worth it.

Correct me if Im wrong but you spent 2g on a fuel tank?

And correct ME spending 1g on fuel tank wich i really thought would have even the baffling :willy:

According to their website, all their tanks have baffling.
"All tanks feature a unique baffle system to control fuel tank slosh. Each tank has baffles running front to rear, side to side, and surrounding the fuel pickups to eliminate fuel starvation during acceleration and hard braking."

Regardless, I think for me there a cell would be a better and more cost efficient option since I wont have a stock floor, nor do I care about trunk space.

It does have some baffling, but not enough for road racing. Every camaro that Mark Stielow builds, he has ricks tanks design this very tank for this reason. It is an expensive upgrade but well worth it.

A fuel cell will cost as much if not more then this setup. Unless you can find one used.

Maz, what were you experiencing exactly that prompted you to get the extra baffling work done? Fuel starvation around corners when tank less than 1/2 full or something like that? Anything else?

Thanks!! i think it will be enough for me..BUT



Why in the earth they wont do that for every tank ? Is the labor and materials really 1000 bucks more compared to that "semi baffling" they are offering as stock ??...

guys, its a stock replacement tank, thats what its meant to be just in stainless, it has minimal baffling and does not work well on low fuel levels,.
you will spend 1k to 1500 on a nice fuel safe cell with an outer wrapper and inner bladder, which is the only way to go if your talking road course days etc.

thanks for chiming in.. not to be rude but now that we have that settled :clap: I would like to return to the thread topic.

Yeah I was getting fuel starvation at 1/4 tank on long right hand sweepers and hard acceleration. After they rebuilt the tank I have had no such issues on even less fuel. As of right now it acts as a fuel cell in that respect.

What pump have you been using? Did you switch it out?

I read on another thread that a guy switched from Walbro to Bosch and the problem was eliminated, which is one reason I was planning on going Bosch.

Sorry for the continued segway.

Any other tips/advice for the frame install. Things to have in mind?

Edelbrock, same before and after.
I do tend to push the car very hard though, not saying anyone else doesn't, but I did have these problems with the stock tank, but since it's been back, I have had no problems with fuel starvation.

Poor guy - can't get this thread off the fuel tank topic.

Just my $.02, but I would say to trust AME with their recommendations on the shop for the frame install.

Seating/ride height/how far the body is going to be sectioned over the frame

You can either have the boey "sit" on top of the chassis and have 4" of frame visible, split the difference of have the body sectioned all the way over the chassis. This is going to affect ride height or at least how low the car looks and it can also remove up to 4" of headroom in the car if you make the chassis even completely hidden by the body.

The stock seat in these cars is pretty thick, so by lowering the seat brackets and chosing a modern bucket that has a thinner seat cushion you can make up for this reduction.

Alloway's Challenger he built for Ken Nester is a great example. 47" to the top of the roof, 4.5" ride height and an owner who is 6'5" and about 325lbs. Ken fits the car like a glove and is very comfy driving it.

While its not a terrible pain, it's just another thing to think about when planning the build of your car.

We generally set the top of the rocker with the top of the frame. This will hide the frame rails as Craig mentioned and usually yields a 4.5"-5" rocker ride hight. But with that comes other issues like Craig mentioned. It introduces issues such as front sheet metal mounting, radiator support modifications (remember you're now lowering the way the entire body fits the frame), the trans tunnel become larger than normal (due to the trans being pushed up in the floor) then that leads to throttle pedal clearance issues etc.
That is why its a good idea and sit and or talk to a shop about HOW and WHAT you are looking for. Anyone can throw a number at you. But that number may be the simplist method and may not be what you invisoned.
One modification usually leads to another and this is what makes estimates on custom work difficult. A good builder works with the knowledge of whats next down the line or what will result from the current modification. A bad builder does what you ask and after hes paid can care less of the finished product after it leaves his shop. Like others mentioned, you're looking at close to 250 hrs. Those two shops that estimated 5-6k are a little off IMO.
I'm just trying to prepare you... dont want to see another member get shafted. :thumbsup:

GREAT ADVICE!!!!
:thumbsup:
We've seen a lot of guys unfortunately get burned because they haven't done this, make assumptions and go for the low dollar deal - usually paid up front. It almost always ends in a big trainwreck, an unhappy customer and a bad name for the quality builders out there.



Now back to the topic at hand.....

The seats will also be an issue since the floor of the car has been raised above stock. If the customer is tall the inside passenger compartment can get pretty tight. The floor will now be higher or even to the rocker.

Rodger

thanks guys. I am planning to have the top of the frame even with the top of the outer rocks... just like the yellow camaro on the AME website. I guess my next step is to go visit some shops.

Any suggestions here.. besides Comp Spec? Hot Rods Inc. say that they are authorized AME distributors.

Pro-Rides Warrendale, PA

Hot Rod Garage Denton,MD

Both are great shops ant are the two that came off the top of my head.

Comp Specialties in Walpole MA are also great guys, a site sponsor here and a great contributor to the forums.

Hot Rods Inc -the name sounds familiar, but we have a lot of "Hot rod XXXXX" companies - where are they located.

Do you know what size guy can fit comfy if the floors are even with the top of the rocker?

According to their website http://www.hotrodsincorporated.com/ they are an Art Morrison Authorized Dealer.

If you look at a stock Camaro. Not only is the front of the seat pan a little below the top of the rocker. But the seat pan also goes much lower as the seat goes back making more head room for the taller person with the seat back for leg clearance. Most are comfirtable in a stock Camaro at 6'3" or so and shorter. Your raising the seat 2 to 2 1/2" at the top of the rocker.

You can spine and backbone the frame and do floor pans at the bottom of the rocker ala belly pan (seeProject Prodigy), but you just added a LOT of labor time to the project

I saw a mid construction camaro today with the max g chassis underneath. What peaked my interest is that the frame ran flush with the inner rocker panels. However, the convertible on art morrisons site has the inner rockers removed and the frame is running parallel to the out rocker lips/flanges.

Is the width a choice when ordering the frame? Any comments?

Pretty much any width you want, in 1/8" increments and up to 65" or so.

As far as the seats go, stock Camaros use very tall seat brackets. You can use much shorter brackets (say, the common types used for racing seats) to gains lots of head room. We've had guys up to 6'5" or so fit comfortably using our chassis, so it's pretty much up to the builder on how the seat is mounted.

In short, while headroom would seem to be an issue, it rarely is.

So it is conceivable that the frame you have has on your website under the convertible 69 camaro(frame meets outer rockers) is wider than the one I saw at a shop where the frame met the inner rockers.

Are there benefits/drawbacks to each install?

Thanks

I think the biggest mistake you can make would be to order the frame yourself and then bring to a shop. You can see by the replies that everyone has their idea of how to do things. Ordering a specific configuration and then bringing to a shop that does it a different way will cost you in the end. Plus if they are a dealer there will be savings and ease of shipping.

There is more to just buying a frame and putting it under the car, 10 shops will give you ten ideas how to mount and modify the surrounding sheet metal. Also make sure the shop can handle the sheet metal work as every piece of work on a custom car requires thought as to how you will proceed with the next part. Every mod effects 5 other parts.

If you drop off a body that is totally rust free you have to be looking at at least $10-$15k to deliver a rolling body back with no unfinished edges. There is $5k in rims and tires at that size. You are also easily looking at $75k into the car as you are now modifying every part that mounts onto that frame. Big difference in price from bolt on suspension and custom one off frame up build. Just trying to inform of real costs as you will be shocked how quick a build like that ads up.

You have the names of a couple shops go sit down and talk to them and make sure that is the route you and your wallet can handle. No disrespect meant as you might be able to afford 3 of them but would like to see you finish a project than sell it a 50% unfinished on EBAY.

Good Luck!!

Thanks for your advice. Asking how the shop will install it and ordering to their specs does make more sense since they will be giving me the bill.

The reason I was asking if there is a difference between install flush with inner rocker vs flush with outer rocker was because I saw a camaro mid construction with a frame underneath it about a week ago. After the builder explained everything he did, it seemed like it was something I might debate undertaking myself. If I get caught up I could always bring it to a shop to finish/fix. There is a place nearby that can bend big pieces of sheet metal.

Feel free to wack me in the head :lolhit: and tell me to give it to a shop or to edge me on hah. :thumbsup: