Save GM
 

Save GM!
Copied from Jalopnik

By Ray Wert, 5:02 PM on Tue Nov 11 2008, 2,683 views
Yes friends, get your officially unofficial "SAVE GM" t-shirt before your bank shutters its doors and your credit cards are maxed out! Show your 'merican pride on your chest with these 100% cotton t-shirts. They're also 100% not-made-in-the-US, just like your cars will be if the feds don't step in to bail out the General. Remember, if we're not willing to "SAVE GM" — who will? Act now before GM's lawyers tell to us to pull 'em down. [Unofficial Jalopnik Cafepress Store]


http://cache.gawker.com/assets/image...GM-T-Shirt.jpg

I bought a 2009 Corvette Z06 only 3 weeks ago, and ordered a 2010 Camaro SS last week. Just doing my part :lol:

Glad those that can are. If you want to help some more.........I'll take a ZR-1:rofl:

Seriously though if wall st. companies were "too big to fail" where does that put the auto industry. GM was the biggest employer in the world.....now surpased by Walmart but think of all the secondary losses in the support industries..........a good chunk of the sema show. :willy:

not to crash this or anything cause i like GM but don't you think they should help there self before we bail them out? i think some people up top should take a pay cut cause there overpaid in my opinion and my .02

the back better say "death to UAW" or down with UAW or something :lol:

We just bought a new HD as well to help them out.

bought a new Saturn for my son in 07, new Duramax for myself in 07, two new GMC work trucks in 08. Doesn't count 7 other new GM vehicles from 91-07.

Jody

GM has to save themselves with better quality plain and simple. Great mechanical but the designers are out to lunch. Love USA and try buying US stuff as much as possible but I am not going to buy junk to line someone elses pocket.

Wife wanted new SRX? SUV last year. Went to look at it and the paint was blotchy all down the side. Explained I wanted car that wasn't hit. They took me to the lot where there were about 5 more each with the same problem. The dealer told me it is just the way silver looks and we were crazy. A 5 year old could have picked it out. This isn't a $20k car. Same cheap plastic adds, cheasy knobs, and just a real $5 plastic look everywhere.

GM killed GM. The Vette is the only thing worth buying but even there they just can't keep the cheap mentality away. Ever compare the leather in Vette to a BMW or Porsche. Where does GM find cows that even have a cheap feel. Spend time in a German car and you will never go back.

Shame as the mechanicals have always been on top but as always wrapped in cheap nonsense. Side vents on a $60,000 Escalade look like they were just bought from Pep Boys on sale.

Hate to say it but the union's need to reside to the fact that health benefits for life, raises every contract etc.... Need to be adjusted. I am a union member (not in the auto industry) and we can't touch the benefit packages they get.

bought a new trailblazer ss and sold it, ive seen better fit and finish on kias.Bought a new escalade and it was marginally better . when i see my friends import suvs you can really tell who was worried about shipping all our jobs to mexico and who was concerned about their product.The only bad thing is this is a catch 22, i dont want to help the corporations at all because they literally do not give a damn about anyone of us.They never have, never will, we are just numbers to them. But if they fail it means their millionaire employees will remain rich and all the working class Gm employees will be out of jobs and SOL.

Loyalty is a 2 way street and GM has proven in the past that they have no problem tugging on our patriotism to make a quick buck. When they recover the same CEO's and upper management will then sell the American worker out the first chance they have to make a few extra bucks. After all how many of your GM vehicles already have made in Mexico engines in them now.

GM needs to sell off there Saab devision and consitrate on the americna market, Saab has done nothing but bring the market down.Saab has to be the worst investment GM ever purchased. there reputation for part and service is worse then the UGO. The Hummer marlet is killing them as well. Although I love the Hummer the gas problem is slowing sales down. Toyota is heading in the number one direction and if they get there, there's nothing going to stop them. If they got rid of the union and had health benifits and 401K like most of the corps out there they could save billions.

Look, it's ridiculous when GM employees purchase more than $17M in Viagra from the health benefit package ($17m was for 2007 only). The biggest purchaser of Viagra in the US !!

My wife has a friend that got laid off from GM two years ago. Because of an agreement with the UAW and GM, she gets 95% of her salary until she is able to find a job that pays as much as she made with GM.
The kicker; to qualify for the 95% salary supplement she gets from GM, all she has to do is show up at GM plant each day and sit with 300 - 400 other employees for 8 hours a day. Please explain how that makes sense?

The room they sit in has 5, 52" large screen plasma TV's, free coffee, donuts, restrooms and parking. Some of the people bring cots to sleep while others even bring the kids during the summer months.

This is happening across the country, GM has thousands of laid off employees getting this package.
The union has got GM by the nuts and unless they are allowed to fail the union has the upper hand.

It makes me sick to see those auto workers riding little robotic equipment while installing parts of the cars... Anyone else ever see that ****? The workers don't have to bust a grape. Try to find a picture of a GM worker with sweat on his or her brow.... It's stupifying.


GM can put out all the propaganda they want but I feel that without getting a handle on the mandatory benefits, medical packages and pension payments the unions have contracted them for, they won't ever survive.
Bail out or not.





I'm not a union hater, in fact I'm a union member. Like most of you, I pay more than my fair share of taxes.



Rich

Like it or not it is just going to get worse unless we the people change the way we think and work. We want want want but no one wants to work for it. When you work 6 days a week at over 10-12 hours a day to keep things going and the government just wants to take more and more how long can you hold out for. FIX THE GOVERNMENT and you fix the problems.

GM has the most retirements so they have huge payouts everymonth. Toyota has not been around long enough to feel it but they will over time. Unless they dont care about their workers at least GM stands behind them for the most part. Not saying they are perfect but I know alot of guys that have retired from GM and they are very well taken care of and I think that is the largest problem they have.

The real problem is some think it's always a supposed to be a gravy train. I was at a friends house last week and a lady there was saying how bad things are. I had to ask what is so damn bad? I don't know of any generation that hasn't had their own obstacles. Most much worse.
I am sure GM will get bailed out so it's about a worthless discussion. How about not making so many cars. It's a pretty simple business practice called supply and demand. You have 100 trucks on the lot it's going to be a buyers market. Toyota only sends enough trucks to create a market to where they can get a reasonable amount. Not have to give the farm away on every truck or car. How about trying to get after Americas youth. Eventually the tried and true mid western americans aren't going to be around to buy American anymore. No one around here buys domestic cars. For a successful professional like myself...I feel like Caddilac is my only choice from GM and domestic auto makers. Still has the old man stigma in my mind. Things have to change if they aren't going to need bailed out again in 2 years. The same old strategies that have failed, will fail next time. This roller coaster ride is far from over.

I think that some stuff has just gotten over priced. 52K for a new pickup truck that I was looking at is a big hit. I'm going to end getting a used dually diesel..

My opinion, If the automakers do go down, there will be no debate as to whether or not we will go into a full-on economic depression as opposed to a "bad recession" or just having a "lousy economy".



Not only that, but the knowledge loss to the country will be tremendous if that industry is gone, and that is a very hard thing to put a price tag on.

People in this country are, by and large, completely ignorant of the massive consequences that are at stake here. They are completely numb from hearing about all the wall street issues these last few months, and feel this is just “more of the same” stuff.



On top of that, the media has spent decades conditioning people to believe that the American auto industry just doesn't produce anything that is any good at all, when we all know that some of what they produce is best-in-class, and best in the world in many cases.


Rich you are right, the employee situation is a complete mess. My hope is that any money they get, will come with some real enforceable stipulations on how they must use it (hopefully to reduce their pension and healthcare obligations for retirees and get that monkey off their backs…complete restructuring, union re-negotiations, etc, etc). Part of the problem, for GM in particular, is bad mortgage debt via GMAC financing (Ditech) So they should be directed to get out of that business...

I never would have had a manufacturing plant to go to work in back in NY as a college kid and get my career started, if it wasn’t for these three guys who were our main customers. I also spent many years in the defense industry and saw the auto makers technology contributions there firsthand. It is not an exaggeration to say that it is a real national security issue if they were to disappear.


Anyway...enough ranting...Even though they have HUGE management problems, I still called my congressman in support of help in the form of LOANS for the US auto industry.

Ok heres my 2 cents, I own a bodyshop I really dont sell parts or have an inventory of stuff besides paint and materials but lets look at it this way, say I sold tires and I have a huge inventory that I already paid for now my buisness is about to fail what do you do? sit on my pile of tires and keep them at retail price or do I cut my loss and sell them even if its less than I paid for them its not smart but at least I can pay my bills and stay open for awhile longer. Now I know gm is having some good sales but give me a break if your about to go out of buisness sell some of this stuff and sell it cheap, your not going to be selling these gas guzzlers anyway so price them to move even if you loose some money at least you'll keep your doors open. Price them cheap and sell them with no warranty so they wont loose out even more in the end and if you want a warranty you'll have to pay for it.

Ok I admit I was shopping for a Trailblazer SS and when I just went on the Chevy web site they have an entire section with the video and links telling people what they can do to save them and the US Auto Industry.

I have to say that is pretty scary when a Co. puts something like that out there. Things have to be beyond bad. The effect would be pretty devastating. For those who think that the Gov bailing them out and that there is nothing to worry about should read some articles being posted.

Most feel that the Auto Industry should be left to file Chapter 11 and let whatever happens happen. The banks were bailed out as they feared everybody would pull their money out of banks. From what I gather they are treating GM as any other Co in trouble and feel bailing them out would be a poor investment.

Problem is with all the scare who is going to buy a car not knowing what will happen. Not good!!!! It will also cripple the aftermarket part and service Industries.

They have to bail them out????

I'm at the point now where I'm so pissed off at all the haters that I'm almost hoping my company goes under as well as Ford and Chrysler. Than I can sit back and watch all the people who thought they wouldn't be effected run around with their hair on fire.

It's amazing the twisted logic of some people.

"Let them go down...they deserve it...their cars are junk....teach them a lesson"

Yeah....that's a terrific idea. Let the thousands of retirees who did nothing wrong and busted their asses for 30-40 years lose 75% of their pensions because some idiot in rural Nebraska with no connection to the auto industry has a point to prove.

Yeah....that's makes a lot of sense.

Anyone up for a little collateral damage? :captain:

This is the best advice given in the simplest analogy.. But do you think they will do that. nope. and why? GREED. The same reason they are in the situation they are in. The entire country is going to **** for this same reason.

:hail: :hail: Tony, I couldn't have said it better myself. Some people have to get a frickin clue!

So we are supposed to keep buying cars that we know in one way or another are inferior to support a Co with poor management non cost effective labor, and burdened with paying off the old time pensions??? They have to prove a change before they get bailed out. Nobody is going to pump money into a Co. like that.

There is no hate on my end. I wish they had gotten it together a long time ago. Even the Vette has a rebate. They should have had that link on their site years ago to help push sales. It is like any other Co just on a grand scale. They are poorly run and with a product that people do not want. There is no need for the big 3 anymore as most car buyers see it in the US. Funny thing is I believe their projected sales outside the USA were growing quickly.

If GM goes they will probably all go as how would the supporting vendors stay afloat. I agree the effects will be devastating. The Hot Rod Industry will also be destroyed as they use a lot of the same suppliers. LS engine parts?

You would think people would be running to GM's site and helping them out. Just a different time as in the 50's there was that USA spirit. I am convinced that people really do not care at all. I will send a letter as they request and think anyone with an interest in the US economy or cars in general should also.

I say let them file chapter 11 which removes all union contracts and let them reopen none union they won't be losing money anymore.Gm pays every auto worker 85 a hour which is there pay and all the benefits they get.When you buy a new gm the biggest chunk of the money goes for workers benefits the raw parts to make it are 2nd.The union contract will not let them hire temp workers so they get stuck paying people not to work.

The automotive manufacturing industry is going to follow the textile and steel industry. GM will live, but after they collapse, they will restructure and leave the US. But I'm sure they will leave a couple of assembly plants in the US so they can still say they are made in the USA, just like Toyota and Honda claim. It appears that's what a lot of people want.

My God listen to yourself Brian....you've been hanging around the watercooler for far too long. The only reason someone wouldn't want our vehicles for fear of owning an inferior product is because of all the biased rhetoric out there that is fueled by misguided perceptions.

Our cars are inferior? PROVE IT.

I want to see the proof. GO GET ME THE PROOF.

Because I can get the latest JD Power numbers and they tell a different story than the one you're telling. You might say you're not a hater but you sure sound like one. I just hope you can keep your job for your family's sake if we go under because the trickle-down effect is going to brush right by your nose my friend. If you think otherwise...you haven't been paying attention.

Maybe if things go bad for my company I can call up the gov. and get a bailout also? Like that would happen, so why do I have to pay for their mistakes its bs. I'm sick of being a good person who pays for the stuff I buy and didnt go borrow for every stupid ass toy or bought or built a home that I didnt need. This is a long time comming just like our whole economy big buisness waisting money the ceo's getting rich let them spend their own damn money to bail themselves out. If gm and the big 3 go down and we have to pay what do we get out of it? cheaper cars or a break on parts, I highly doubt it, how much money did they spend at sema? maybe they should look at how they spend money they dont have, that wont happen because they dont have to take responsibility for the way they spend their money cause they know we'll bail them out. I hope they dont go under for the employees and our economy's sake but I know as a nation we shouldnt have to take money out of our pockets to keep them running.

From Freep:

Myth No. 2
They build unreliable junk.

Reality

The creaky, leaky vehicles of the 1980s and '90s are long gone. Consumer Reports recently found that "Ford's reliability is now on par with good Japanese automakers." The independent J.D. Power Initial Quality Study scored Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Ford, GMC, Mercury, Pontiac and Lincoln brands' overall quality as high or higher than that of Acura, Audi, BMW, Honda, Nissan, Scion, Volkswagen and Volvo.

J.D. Power rated the Chevrolet Malibu the highest-quality midsize sedan. Both the Malibu and Ford Fusion scored better than the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry.


Another interesting number; General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC sold 8.5 million vehicles in the United States last year.






I have no idea what the answer is but thought it should be noted that today's vehicles, built in this country, are as good as anyone's.

What I don't understand is the $700bn handout to Wall Street is ok, but helping the Big 3 with what comes to 3.5% of the amount of what Wall Street is recieving is a bad thing. Shouldn't we be demanding the same thing, if not more, of Wall Street? Fire the administrations, demand transparency, etc, etc.

Again, I have no idea how it's going to be fixed, all of this sucks.

Your too close to this situtation to have an objective view.
I find it ironic that you are up in arms about people not wanting to bail your company out, but where is your anger at your company for not building products that people WANT!
Those retireees you speak of are a huge part of the problem. They are drawing huge pensions and are providing nothing in return, hence the word pension. Can you agree that, that business model is a failed one?
Can you agree that NO company can survive by paying retired employees for the rest of their lives and still be a profitable business?
If GM went under those retirees wouldn't lose 75% of their pensions, that is just a false. Would those accounts not get turned over to the Pension benefit guarentee corporation?
Why would GM going into bankruptcy harm it? It's supposed to be an instrument of accoutnablitity for a company to rebound.
Why as well is GM crying if they don't get the bail out then they will go out of business? That's a load of ****. Is there nothing they can cut or reduce production to stay in business and again become profitable.

We live in a country that thrives on creative destruction. Where one business fails another stands up behind it.

Bottom line is that a business is not in the business of creating jobs. A business through it's success's creates jobs. A business that builds, creates, or services products that people want or need hire people as a byproduct of success.

If we want the government to bail out companies so that people never lose jobs, why just have the fed pay every citizen $50k a year and they can work however they want?

How many bankruptcies did the airlines go through?
How many thousands of jobs were lost in the textile industry? Where was their bailout?
Seems like you and other like you think the Big 3 is too important to fail or downsize.

PS. this is not a personal attack at anyone but please understand that there are millions of people that are not in the industry that have an outsiders view.

Everyone who thinks that this is a bailout of GM needs to realize that it's a loan, that in turn will bail out hundreds of thousands of people from losing there jobs. The effects of not getting this "loan" will be catastrophic.

As far as the quality goes. We ARE just as good or better than most. The days of old are gone. The sooner people realize this, the sooner we will start to get this country back on track. I honestly do not understand how any American can walk into a Toyota, Honda, Nissan, etc. store right now. It boggles my mind how much lack of support for this country there is. The only good thing I can say about them is that they forced us to step up our game, and we did! Now we have the best warranty in the industry to prove that we can build a quality vehicle and back it up, yet people still buy imports!:willy:

OK, I'm done....BUY AMERICAN!:cheers:

The problem is purely of perception. Perception is everything, no matter what industry you're in. If the mass populace thinks it's true... it is true to that group. Improving the product is easy, improving the perception is a hard, long road.
The US manufactures are making huge strides in improving their quality. Unfortunately it's falling on the public's deaf ears. :( Until there is something to shake up the market (chp 11 or a huge reorg), the public won't notice and that perception won't change.

I'm a car nut that has followed the new gen Malibu's story and mentioned it to everyone I can. I love the car. Even though I know it's improved, and have seen it's quality first hand, the nameplate has a horrible stigma. My initial reation is that it's a "cheap, plastic filled rental car." Only after that do I remember it's improvements.
The public's perception of the Accord nameplate is quality. At this point Honda can do whatever they want with it, and the public will happily move right along with them.

America has turned into a bunch of sheep.

You mean that those employees might feel what most others that are not making $40 and up an hour, feel?

How can you honestly sit there and blame the consumer for not buying these cars? And take no responsibility for the products they are presenting to us for purchase?

Just as an example; How long has honda been building 30+ mpg cars that don't look like the geo metro? Besides buying a foreign car is just as much buying american anymore as buying a GM.

Listening to a lot of the testimony on Capitol Hill this AM, it is just amazing how completely ignorant most of our elected officials are as to the size and scope of the American automobile industry and all the associated industries.

They just don't understand it.

The overwhelming position seems to be "It's simple, let them fail and restructure under Chapter 11".

What they don't realize is that if they go into Bankruptcy, their sales won't recover...no one is going to buy "durable goods" products from companies that are in Chapter 11. Suppliers will cease to extend credit terms to them, and will demand payment on delivery, and the cash burn rate alone would be enough to kill them.

Not to mention how everyone conveniently forgets how the industry gave it's support to the war effort during WWII...and how much technology these three have contributed across ALL forms of industry...

It's all "what have you done for me lately"...What a piss-poor state of affairs...

The big three unfortunately also have not done a good job these last couple of days with their PR strategy of selling the whole idea of getting these loans, to the legislators or the public...Listening to them testify this AM, They are not being very humble in the way that they are asking for this help...Their testimony has had this kind of "we are entitled to this, we are too big to fail, you just have to do this" kind of vibe...and they are coming across as unprepared for the testimony. Painful to listen to...

Unfortunately what worked for AIG, etc a month or so ago, has now completely fallen out of favor emotionally with the legislators and the public so a different strategy is needed...

You obviously missed the total point of my post.

Whether or not many people notice, the US automakers have made huge strides in quality. Take a look at GM interiors within the past 2 years vs a few years prior. The quality gap between the US and foreign manufactures has been closed significantly.
My point was that the public's perception won't change until there is a huge shake up. The general public is currently blind to the increases in quality no matter what the automakers are currently doing.
While their quality has rose, their perception is still the same.

It doesn't matter how long honda's been doing it... what I'm talking about is the fact that the GM is almost on par with them and gaining fast. GM's perception in your eyes still hasn't changed even though they've remedied the situation. If you think Buying a Honda is the same as buying GM, you really need to follow the money trail to see where it ends up.

I missed nothing. This argument is not about quality. Those huge strides have come real damn late. And if that is in fact true, then restructuring under chalter 11 might be exactly what they need to do. Reduce the number of and types of vehicles and sell the **** out of those to get back on their feet.


Don't talk about what's in my eyes. I own a ford, chevy, jeep, hond and a damn yamaha bike.
I DON'T CARE WHERE THE PROFITS GO! It's none of my business. If any of us really did we wouldn't be buying so many chinese goods. And if you are buying those you are just blowing smoke.

If you cannot stay on topic then there is never anything that anyone can say that will affect your way of thinking. The idea of where the profits go, is an ENTIRELY different subject. But you cannot deny that there are thousands of jobs at foreign manufactures right here in the US. Would you rather them go under and lose those jobs, even though they are producing cars people want, so that you can keep your job?

You and the big 3 are relying on blind loyalty. Sorry, but that is gone.

I'm not against the loan so to speak. It's got to be done the right way. There needs to be specific language on how the money can be used. Let's face it....if one of them goes under then we won't be paid in full. The loan should come with forced changes in the way they do business as well. The execs and union should make some concessions along with the workers. The worst thing is a loan with lousy conditions attached. I agree that they needs to blow out some of the excess inventory and recover some of there own liquidity. Stop producing vehicles that are saturated. I just don't understand how all three can be going broke. We just went through a huge car buying revolution. How about socking away some reserves. Sounds a lot like the Real Estate/Banking situation doesn't it. Feast on the good times and not prepare for the bad.

On the contrary, I'm close enough to the situation where I've almost been fired for my distaste of this company's past sins. Money wasted on programs that never saw the light of day when it was obvious they were a waste of time. I was there when the Aztek clay model was sitting in the hallway covered in Dynoc for a Board Of Directors show and I blasted the thing in front of everyone. Hell I've even been yelled at on this website and PT.com for my attitude towards GM's business decisions. I am no "yes man". I spoke up, I was subjective, and I got hit in the mouth for it. Not to stroke my ego or to hear myself talk, but because I care a great deal about my company's future because it impacts MY future and MY FAMILY'S future. We've come a long way since then and I truly believe we are building the best cars we ever have in our 100 years. I've done my part. And by the way...8.5 million people wanted our products last year. Not bad...but room for improvement.

I am in favor of health care being ceased for retirees (as I won't get it when I retire due to my hire-in date) but I believe you have to leave the pensions alone. The pension money is not free money....those retirees paid into that pension all throughout their careers. They have it coming, it's their money.

Based on the conversations I've had with a number of retirees that I know, they are all telling me that if GM were to go Chapter 7 then they would indeed lose anywhere from 50%-70% of their pensions. I trust what they're saying because I know these old-timers have probably been doing their homework amidst all this chaos and that the Pension Benefit Gauranty Corporation does not necessarily guarantee you will get your full pension. Read the site, it's in the FAQ.

Yeah....my job. Hence the pissed off attitude. I have a family too ya know.

When I read your response to my post I misread your response. That's why I was speaking of quality.

I don't agree with your argument that buying foreign is just as much American as a US manufacturer. In my eyes, if more money ends up in foreign hands, buying an import is not the same as buying American.
The reason I bring profit into it is that the end location of the money is really all that separates all auto manufacturers. They're all building them in the US with Euro designs and engines built on a completely different continent.
I don't want the imports to go under either. They've increased competition, which is ultimately good for the consumer. As you have already pointed out they also create US jobs as well.

Even though GM is where my heart lies, I'm far from blind to the competition. I own Chevrolet, Pontiac, Dodge, Jeep, and a Suzuki bike. Through my Fiance I have access to Honda and Acura. From my experience so far, honda hasn't treated us any better than GM or Chrysler.

Gm isnt going bankrupt because of quality, because for the past decade when all the "rich" people were buying hummers and vettes on gmac the quality was good enough for them.Gm's looming failure is due the credit crisis/recession whatever you want to call it not bad quality.and running out and buying gm right now will not solve anything, in fact its what got us into this mess.