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TwinTorino
Finally getting around to getting some real progress done on this project - so I figured it was time to start a thread. I have been a member of the site for a while now trying to get ideas of how to go about doing this project myself, and what parts to use.
This project is slightly different than most.. in that myself and a friend are both building similar cars at the same time, hence the "twin" Torino name. It took a couple of years to find two cars, round up all the moderns parts for both the cars, build a chassis fixture, etc. To date, one car has 95% of the parts needed, and the other is 85% there. For additional info on the cars and our builds - you can visit our site at www.twintorino.com The goal is to have something that could be driven daily and hit open track road course days on the weekends. We also did not want to have the fuel mileage of a big block Ford. The cars started life as 1968 Torino GT Fastbacks. Both were 289 cars with FMX auto transmissions backed by a Ford 8". They are not rare vehicles to start with, nor did they have desirable color combos or options, so they are perfect candidates. Both cars were bought on Ebay and are southern cars.. as we gave up early on the rusty northern cars. We are building these cars on a pretty tight budget and are doing everything ourselves.. so it just tends to take a lot of time rather than money. We have been busy buying and sellings cars and parts to pay for most of the project to date. Keeping in the cost effective theme - most of the parts are used and came from Ebay, Craigslist, Kijiji and forums like this one. The engines are 4.6L DOHC ones from a 2004 Mach 1 and the transmissions are T56 6-speed from a 2004 Cobra. We went with a Mach 1 as the engine is all aluminum, and are a lot cheaper than the Cobra supercharged motors. The supercharged motors use iron blocks. The rear ends are 2004 Cobra 8.8 (31 spline inner/outer) as part of the IRS assembly. Cooling comes from 2004 Cobra aluminum radiators (36mm core) and Mustang 2-speed cooling fans. Exhaust will use Bassani stainless steel headers, and a complete 2004 Cobra Bassani stainless steel system to start (modified to fit of course). The front suspension is a modified 2004 Cobra McPherson strut setup. The rear suspension is a modified 2004 Cobra IRS. The steering rack comes from a 2004 Cobra. Front sway bar is a 35 mm Roush bar, and the rear is 26mm stock unit from the IRS. Koni DA's will be used at all 4 corners. Front brakes are 2004 Cobra PBR front calipers with 13" Brembo rotors, and will have Carbotech AX6 street/track pads. Rear brakes are 11.65" disk from a 2004 Cobra. Brakes will be powered by a Cobra hydroboost unit. 2004 Mustang pedals are used under the dash. Wheels for one car will be Ford FR500 18x9 front, and 18x10.5 rear. The other car will run Axis Hiro 18x9 front, and 19x10 rear. Tires are Michelin Pilot PS2 275's in the front, and 315 in the rear. Track tires are yet undecided, although they will be 18x9 and be 275's all round and road course slicks. Seating will be modified 1969 Torino buckets for daily driving, and Sparco Torino's for track days (although they will likely stay in all the time). Interior will appear mostly stock looking. The gauges will be custom (using a Mustang gauge clsuter to start) with silkscreened faces to mimic the original ones. A/C and heating system will be based on a modified 2004 Mustang system. Wiring will be modified 2004 Mach 1 harnesses. It is much cheaper that way in comparison to aftermarket setups. Also more complicated this way though. Cars will retain the Cobra ABS brakes, traction control, PATS theft system (with key in the dash), keyless entry, and basically any other major electrical function a 2004 Cobra would have. We are getting rid of things like air bags, power mirrors and lots of other things that are not needed. That is all for now.. here are some pictures: Day 1 for both cars: http://www.twintorino.com/images/Georgia_Day1019.jpg http://www.twintorino.com/images/Texas_Day1006.jpg Powertrain: 2004 Mach 1 Engine http://www.twintorino.com/images/Texas_Mach1_001.jpg 2004 Cobra T56 6-speed http://www.twintorino.com/images/t56_trans_no3_002.jpg 2004 Cobra IRS http://www.twintorino.com/images/torino_irs004.jpg |
2004 Cobra quick ratio steering rack
http://www.twintorino.com/images/texas_steering_001.jpg Sparco Torino Seats http://www.twintorino.com/images/sparco_torino_2.jpg 2004 Mach 1 wiring (ouch) http://www.twintorino.com/images/texas_wiring_001.jpg Stock wheels/tires beside FR500 wheels/315/30R18 Michelin Pilot PS2 tires http://www.twintorino.com/images/tex..._wheel_007.jpg |
Custom chassis fixture we ended up building for setting up suspension and powertrain:
http://www.twintorino.com/images/chassis_jig_006.jpg http://www.twintorino.com/images/chassis_jig_010.jpg IRS cradle fixture: http://www.twintorino.com/images/cha...ig_irs_003.jpg Vehicle in rough position: http://www.twintorino.com/images/tex...t_susp_011.jpg IRS moving into place.. http://www.twintorino.com/images/Texas_IRS_008.jpg |
This build required several donor vehicles along the way for parts..
2004 Cobra roller (this side makes the car look like it is in good condition). http://www.twintorino.com/images/avon_cobra_001.jpg 2004 Mach 1 Powertrain http://www.twintorino.com/images/geo...engine_001.jpg http://www.twintorino.com/images/geo...engine_002.jpg |
Got tired of trying to mock up the underhood area with a complete heavy engine, so I decided to make something a little more lightweight. A heavy engine was even more annoying to work with the car on a jig that is 18" off the ground. Since I am on a tight budget, I opted to use an old shipping crate and about $10 worth of fasteners from Home Depot. After careful measurements of the block and tracing out various components, a CAD model was created. This was then used to make up 1:1 scale prints, which were in turn pinned to 3/4 plywood and cut out. This allows the headers, cam covers, trans, front cover, upper intake manifold, manifolds, A/C compressor and power steering pump to be installed in the car.
http://twintorino.com/images/mock_mach_001.jpg http://twintorino.com/images/mock_mach_003.jpg http://twintorino.com/images/mock_mach_004.jpg The shaker on the 2004 Mach 1 sits very far forward when in the Torino, so I had to take it apart and shift it back about 8" to make it look right. Not sure if I am going to keep it on the car or not. Engine does not like the factory shock towers as you can see - the cam covers won't fit. The plasma will make them go away so a pair of 2004 Mustang shock towers can be installed. http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...dinstalled.jpg |
Looking forward to watching the build
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great projects and an awesome website to follow them with. Nice work.:thumbsup:
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Wow, That will be a fun ride when you finish !!!
Best of luck with the build and please keep the pictures coming !!! Jason |
That's really cool. Keep us posted. :cheers:
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This is really intresting !! Keep us posted:hail:
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I can't even tell you how cool that CAD idea is. hahaha. Looks like an good start and I'll definitely be following this thread.
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Killer setup the car will be a outstanding ride.will the jig move went you adjust the legs up or down?(side to side):bow: :bow:
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These are definitely cool builds. I've been waiting to see a Torino build for a while. I like the shaker, reminds me of a torino cobra. It'd be awesome if there was a way to make it functional.
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Thanks for all the great comments everyone - much appreciated!
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I have some 3D models I am working on now using 3ds Max to see what a shaker will actually look like.. and I will decide from there. |
Finished up the wooden mockup this week. Believe it or not, a std household copper pipe is the same size as a dowel pin, so this was easy to set up. This allowed the trans to be mounted to the buck motor. The motor mounts were set up, along with the exhaust, oil filter adapter (OFA) and the intake manifold. This allows everything to be mounted on the stock k-member for now. Starting to look like a real setup now, aside from the wood :). Next step it make up mounts for the chassis fixture to get the engine and trans at the correct position and angle.
http://twintorino.com/images/mock_mach_005.jpg http://twintorino.com/images/mock_mach_006.jpg Finally started work on the underbody once again. Since the 315 or 335 tires will not clear the inner wheel wells, we needed to make some more room. The suspension will also move differently than a solid axle (you get camber change now with the IRS), so that further defines the need to minitub the rear of the car. Since there is no kit available (may be a while before DSE makes a Torino kit) - we need to just cut out an inch of floorpan and add an inch to the inner wheel wells. Finally got to put the plasma cutter to its first test - is worth its weight on gold during this step. It is very easy to cut straight lines this way too. Had to cut holes in the trunk floor so the upper control arms on the IRS would fit. Also hitting the pinion snubber and will hit the jounce bumper brackets, so those will have to go away too. This all needs to be done so the car can have a lower stance and still sit at the correct "design" position as it was designed (and not just at some arbitrary control arm angle). http://twintorino.com/images/texas_minitub_001.jpg http://twintorino.com/images/texas_minitub_003.jpg Also have a complete 3ds Max model to post up here within the next week to get some feedback on the final design for the cars. |
Wow! Awesome project! I love the mockup engine!! :D
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Finally managed to get some additional work on the car over the holidays. We removed the pass side wheel tub and then moved onto the front to attack the suspension.
If you look at the previous pictures, you will see that a DOHC engine was not meant to fit within Torino shock towers. Easy solution there - get rid of them. They will be replaced with 2004 Mustang based ones. I will say once again how great a tool a plasma cutter is!! This is by far one of the best and fastest tools I own. It makes cutting up cars a breeze. Once the shock towers were out, the stock Mustang k-member was modified to allow it to bolt into the Torino. A spare mockup steering rack was placed in position and will work perfect once in place which is another relief as we were not sure if it would hit anything. http://twintorino.com/images/texas_minitub_005.jpg http://twintorino.com/images/texas_f...on_mod_002.jpg http://twintorino.com/images/texas_f...on_mod_004.jpg http://twintorino.com/images/texas_f...on_mod_005.jpg http://twintorino.com/images/texas_f...on_mod_006.jpg |
Once the front shock towers were removed and the stock Mustang front suspension k-member was modified, the engine was placed in the car. Surprisingly, the engine and exhaust fit quite well, and should only require a few tweaks to make it work. This is a big relief as we had thought it was going to be necessary to widen the frame rails. The only thing that is really in the way is the old trans crossmember brackets which will be cut off anyway. The motor mounts on the crossmember will need to be adjusted as the engine needs to shift back at least 6". Things are finally starting to move along now!
http://twintorino.com/images/texas_e...nstall_002.jpg http://twintorino.com/images/texas_e...nstall_001.jpg http://twintorino.com/images/texas_e...nstall_003.jpg http://twintorino.com/images/texas_e...nstall_004.jpg |
cool and unique project, seeing that roller cobra makes me queasy
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how comfortable are those sparco seats? been looking at getting those or steeping up and getting the milano 2.
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As far as the car in this topic goes, great start with the project! I'll stick around to see how this turns out. KEEP US POSTED! :thumbsup: |
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Started to mock up the front suspension by putting the control arms in place as well as the spindles, hubs, struts, caster/camber plates and brakes. The suspension is sitting approx where it will in the shock tower area. Next step is to finalize these points with a plumb bob to match the same points as a stock 2004 Mustang. Then it is time to build up costom strut towers. The struts shown are just for mockup. In the end the car will be running coil over struts with adjustable rebound and compression (Koni or Tokico - haven't decided yet). The Maximum Motorsports caster camber plates will allow us to run 2-3° of camber at the track and then back to close to stock specs for the street. The only immediate problem is going to be with the hood hinges interfering with caster/camber plates. One thing we did figure out here is that a SN95 Mustang swaybar is not going to work here since the Torino framerails are much lower than the Mustang, so I think we are going to have to run an S197 Mustang bar instead.
http://twintorino.com/images/texas_f...on_mod_007.jpg http://twintorino.com/images/texas_f...on_mod_008.jpg |
I love it !!!
Resurrection not restoration,this is the way to build a car.The CEO of Porsche would approve,get rid of the things that make the car a poor performing,ill handling and unstoppable beast.:yes:
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awesome project, can't wait to see the progress
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i'll be watching. Great concept and some fun fab work.
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Great project.. I hate to see the Comp orange in that condition myself. But atleast it is going to a good cause. What happened to the engine from the Cobra?
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Thanks for all the comments everyone!
As for the Comp orange car - I still have it, although it is a bare skeleton. The engine, trans, seats and IRS were long gone when I bought it. The powertrain from it now resides in a 1969 Mach 1. I got it for electrical system, cooling system, brakes, steering and lots of other odds and ends. |
We have been spending some time lately figuring how we want to set the suspension up, and seeing what we want to run for hard points on the chassis etc. We also want to figure out how to set up the rear springs/shocks, since there is not a lot back there. We started to get the chassis points into the computer and figure out roughly how the car will behave when we set up the points the way we want to. The models is being created using program called Motionview (by Altair Engineering) which is for multibody dymanics. This is then sovled using a program called ADAMS.
Here is the model as it is today. The front and rear suspension have all the basics points in. Not much to see aside from the bare basics. You can clearly see all the main suspension parts for the front MacPherson strut suspension and SLA rear IRS. The key here is the info it spits out.. and not having detailed graphics. I will post some animations once they are up and running, as it makes more sense when you see things moving. Now it is time to determine the kinematic behavior of the car (camber/caster/toe curves) and them move onto the dynamic side of things (spring rates, shock rates etc). Also been spending some time with a complete 3D rendering of the car which should be ready to post in a week or two. This is much easier to do now before everything is finished, and it is not really easy to guess how a car will behave by just looking at where points are. This will provide a starting point for setup, as it is much harder to move points when everything is welded in for good. http://twintorino.com/images/suspens...lation_001.jpg |
Finally got some renderings going for the cars.. figured I would post here as well as it goes along with the build progress of the cars. This was my first crack at 3D rendering.. just needed a good project to learn how to use it. More to come in the near future.
Also have lots more done on the front suspension and the subframe connectors. Pics to follow shortly. http://www.twintorino.com/images/ful...%20renders.jpg |
Couple more updates:
Three main things on the go right now - front suspension/steering/brakes, floor of car/subframe connectors and steering column/pedal setup and seat positioning. Rear suspension is on hold until custom bent tubes and rear coil overs arrive. First the suspension. Have found most of the front suspension components online in the past month or so (nearly new for discounted prices of course). Nice thing here is since I am running SN95 (1994-2004) Mustang based suspension - the sky is the limit with aftermarket parts. Front suspension will consist of (parts are on the way or in hand now for one car): Maximum Motorsports front tubular lower control arms Koni dual adjustable (DA) front struts with adjustable rebound and compression damping Maximum Motorsports coil over kit Maximum Motorsports caster camber plates Stock Mustang front spindles/hubs Hypercoil springs - have not decided on rate yet Since the strut rods are no longer needed, the brackets that house the bushings were removed. Custom brackets will be made up to stiffen the area once again and also provide mounts for the radiator, A/C condensor and ABS unit. http://www.twintorino.com/images/tex...t_susp_012.jpg With the suspension almost in position, the stock control arms make contact with the frame. Tubular control arms correct this issue, although just barely. The goal here is to get the suspension in the exact same position as in a stock Mustang to keep the suspension geometry the same (easier said than done as we are finding out). http://www.twintorino.com/images/tex...t_susp_013.jpg Nearly new tubular control arms compared to the old ones. Since we are running coil overs, spring pockets are no longer needed. They are also lighter and much better looking. http://www.twintorino.com/images/tex...t_susp_014.jpg As for the subframe connectors - hoping to have them in within the next week or so. The passengers side is nearly ready to go in. Just have to jog the subframe connector 4" as the front subframe is 4" inboard of the rear (more to come on that shortly). As you can see, the front trans mount has been removed, and the remaining piece left will be used for welding to the connectors. A custom trans mount will need to be made for the 6-speed, and also a driveshaft loop needs to go in as well as seat mount supports. This will all make a bit more sense once they start going in. http://www.twintorino.com/images/tex...nstall_001.jpg |
Got started on laying out the driving position this week as well.
Starting fitting the Sparco's into the car. They are extremely comfortable and will help keep a person planted when on the road course. Stangely enough, sparco does not make seat adapters to bolt into a Torino, even though the model name is Sparco Torino :). http://www.twintorino.com/images/tex...nstall_001.jpg Started to fit the Mustang pedals into the car. Several reasons for using these instead of Torino ones. Mustang uses a cable clutch and Torino ones need significant mods to make work with the clutch quadrant. Want to be able to keep the stock Mustang pedal ratios going into the hydroboost. Want to be able to use the stock Mustang electronics since all the dash wiring is from a 2004 Mustang. Also like the pedal positions much more and they are much better for heel/toe driving on the track. Measurements were taken from a 2004 Mustang to be able to position the pedals the same distance from the firewall, height off the ground, and releationship to the steering wheel. The goal here is also to use a stock floor shift Torino column as I hate the look of a new column in an old car. http://www.twintorino.com/images/tex...pedals_001.jpg Well.. here is the first issue as we were expecting. The clutch quadrant hits the windshield wiper motor area. This area will need to be modified to make it work. It is looking like we will end up grafting a Mustang firewall onto the Torino. That way everything will bolt right up (including brake clutch and gas pedals, steering column, hydroboost unit, heater box and all wiring and cable pass throughs) and look much cleaner. Since we have 2 complete Mustang firewall assemblies and a plasma cutter.. this should not be a big deal.. famous last words I guess. http://www.twintorino.com/images/tex...pedals_002.jpg Stay tuned.. |
Made some more significant progress on the front suspension of the car. Koni dual adjustable struts came in (used of course) and also the Maximum Motorsports coil over conversion kit.
http://twintorino.com/images/texas_front_susp_015.jpg |
In order to get the suspension in place and get the suspension in the correct vehicle position, we needed to build a fixture that would work with our chassis jig. The k-member was used as reference and mounting points were chosen and located. Once this was built, it was placed on the vehicle so a tire and wheel could now be put into place. Finally starting to look like a real front suspension. Lets just say that 18x10's are a tight fit up front and will likely not fit. They will likely need to be narrowed as that is the only size they come in. They are Roush forged 18x10's and will likely be the track trims. Lots of new clearance issues came up with this.. and we be datailed as the install continues. The coil overs are going to prove to make matters worse for clearances. More carnage to come tomorrow (Torino Tuesday) as we start hacking up the firewall to fit all the Mustang components. Stay tuned..
http://twintorino.com/images/texas_front_susp_016.jpg http://twintorino.com/images/texas_front_susp_017.jpg http://twintorino.com/images/texas_front_susp_018.jpg http://twintorino.com/images/texas_front_susp_019.jpg http://twintorino.com/images/texas_front_susp_020.jpg |
Now I know you already bought the struts and stuff for the front but they really do create issues with rim selection. Have you thought about using some parts from factory five racing, the kit car guys, they have parts that convert the mustang spindles into dual a-arm units. they have done a lot of work making these stout and setting them up for the track very easy.
http://www.ffcobra.com/photopost/dat...m/DSCN2671.JPG http://www.ffcobra.com/photopost/dat..._day_11-09.jpg I'm not telling you what to do but some times you have to rethink rather than compromise Thanks for listening, Patrick |
Patrick - I appreciate your input. I definitely hear what you are saying on that one. In the end it came down to two things for us - cost and project goals.
We determined that running coil overs on the front would likely limit us to 275's on the front, but in reality that is as wide as we would ever be running anyway. If we wanted to go wider, that would mean widening the fender flares which we are trying to avoid. The strut based suspension will take more fabrication in the end, but that only costs us time at this point. I also wanted to stick to a suspension setup I know a lot about and have experience with as far as tuning goes. As for cost - by the time we add up the price of what we have into the front suspension parts, we could not even buy a set of front shocks that we would need (Koni 3012 based dual adjustables). I know this as I just had to order 3012's for the rear of the car as we have no choice and they are damn expensive. |
Moving onto the powertrain - it is now time to rebuild the transmissions in the midst of things. Since we both bought known broken transmissions (to save money of course) we knew we would have to rebuild these anyway. We decided to upgrade the known weak points in the T56 transmission since these cars will see some track duty. The kit upgrades the trans with carbon kevlar synchronizer rings and replaces all of the typical wear items. There are two main weak points inside the case: 1) The stamped 1-2 and 3-4 keys are being replaced with billet ones as shown below. 2) The aluminum 3-4 shift forks are being replaced with steel pieces (from a Viper trans), and also replaced the plastic fork pads with brass ones.
http://twintorino.com/images/torino_...ebuild_001.jpg http://twintorino.com/images/torino_...ebuild_002.jpg http://twintorino.com/images/torino_...ebuild_003.jpg |
After going back and forth on how to make these pedals work out, along with the clutch cable, gas pedal & cable, heater box, wiring harnesses, steering column pass through etc. etc, we can to the conclusion that the firewall would likely be hacked to pieces by the time we got done with it. If only we had a firewall from a Mustang. We had two that were already part of a complete car, but those have lots of other pieces spot welded to them and they would likely be ruined trying to get the out, let alone how long it would take. I put a call into a friend who works at a dealer, and the next thing I know he was telling me that firewalls are available and are cheap! I guess when you think about it - how often would a firewall be replaced? Are car would likely be written off before needing to replace one. As you can see below - everything wil bolt up nicely and look like it was supposed to be there. Obviously this is not a quick bolt on modification and will require lots of cutting and welding, but it will be worth it in the end for sure. In the end, the cost of the firewall was less than 2 replacement Torino toe pans, so this was a no brainer.
http://www.twintorino.com/images/tex...l_mods_001.jpg http://www.twintorino.com/images/tex...l_mods_002.jpg http://www.twintorino.com/images/tex...l_mods_003.jpg |
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