How the Road Runner beats the Coyote
 

Well I've been a long-time lurker and have only posted a handful of times mainly because I really didn't have much to post. With that being said it's time to make my first serious contribution to Lat-G.

I purchased a 1968 Plymouth Road Runner last March from a guy in Austin who rebuilds nothing but old Mopars. As I'm sure is the case with many of the people on this board I am now beginning to find that what I thought had been "completely" restored is nowhere near where I'd like it to be. The car's body is pretty straight, the paint is good (not great) and the 440/6bbl setup is fresh and strong.

From Day 1 I've wanted to do what everyone else here on the site has........make my older muscle car handle and brake like a newer car so that I could fully enjoy her potential. With that in mind......onto the pics.

First here's a pic of her the day I brought her home:

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...dRunner001.jpg

The car was originally equipped with 4-wheel non-power drum brakes, and it was also clearly evident from the start is that the front end needed to be rebuilt as it didn't look like any of the bushings had been changed since the day she rolled off Ma Mopar's line.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...Rebuild001.jpg

Notice the nice completely blown Varishock that I added soon after I got the car. Apparently the LCA was bent and so it was putting side loads on shock. That was a great way to burn through a little cash.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...Rebuild003.jpg

Check out the nail he used in place of the cotter-key on the front hub. That little gem is one of many examples of poor/lazy issues I've found.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...Rebuild004.jpg

Another pic of the stock front setup with the drum brakes.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...Rebuild009.jpg

Everything removed from the front end and a fresh canvas to start the upgrades.

More to come..........

In trying to figure out how to upgrade both the suspension and brakes on the Road Runner I've spent countless hours cruising Lat-G, Pro-Touring and Moparts searching for anything I could find on what'd been done before. What I found is that what is cool to me about this car.......that it's not something common that's been done before.........is also the frustrating issue. Namely.....finding what parts fit and work well together.

In terms of the suspension I looked at just about anything that could be done.......completely replacing the K-member with one of RMS' Alter-Kation setups, replacing the existing setup with an Air-Ride or simply picking specific components to upgrade the Mopar torsion-bar setup.

What I finally decided is that I'd like to keep the cars front suspension "stock" looking but with upgraded components. I purchased a set of 1.10" diameter torsion bars, tubular UCAs, aluminum strut rods, thicker 11/16" tie-rod ends, idler arms, 1-1/8" front and 3/4" rear sway bar from Firm Feel incorporated. I also purchased new LCAs from Cap Auto products to replace the stock ones that were clearly bent.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...Rebuild010.jpg

Here's a pic of the new components installed. The only piece that remains stock is the spindle. I also decided that while I had everything apart I'd apply a coat or two of new flat black paint to the wheel wells to make it look better.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...Rebuild012.jpg

A better pic of the new tubular LCA.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...Rebuild043.jpg

Rear view of the setup.

What I soon discovered is that I think the torsion bar setup is truly unique in it's design but it's also a complete pain to install. As I'm sure is the case with everyone else......now that I've done it several times (a few due to my screw ups) I'm actually pretty good at it. Not that I want to do it again.

At this point it was time to decide what to do in terms of brakes. Obviously I didn't want to keep the stock drums since I'd be upgrading the wheels as well, plus I wanted something that could bring a big B-body to a stop safely. As such, I called Frank at Prodigy and purchased a complete Wilwood setup consisting of 12.2" 6-piston fronts and 12.2" 4-piston rears with drilled and slotted rotors.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...Rebuild046.jpg

Here's a pic of the new hubs and rotors installed. I think the black rotor looks killer with the color scheme of the car (more on that later).

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...Rebuild047.jpg

Close up of the new rotor & hub.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...Rebuild048.jpg

Picture of the 6-piston Wilwood front caliper installed.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...Rebuild049.jpg

Close up.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...Rebuild051.jpg

From the front of the car looking at the complete new front setup.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...Rebuild050.jpg

New 1-1/8" Firm Feel front sway bar.

Once I had the front end mostly completed it was time to move onto the rear. I decided to keep the leaf spring setup (for now) to see how it would react with all the new front components I've added. At some point I could see adding some sort of 3- or 4-link setup.

The stock 275/15s were a very tight fit.......it took a ton of effort to get the passenger side out.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...Rebuild039.jpg

Lots of clearance huh?

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...Rebuild014.jpg

A picture of the stock setup with the drums already removed.

So that's where I'm currently sitting as of this afternoon. I'm waiting on new bearings & Wilwood backing plates to be pressed onto my rear axle shafts so that I can reinstall them this evening and finish mounting the 4-piston rear Wilwoods.

I need to finish fabricating new ss brake lines to the rear calipers and also the new parking brake cables.

I've also added a 3/4" Addco rear sway bar which I'll get pictures of later.

Once all that's completed (hopefully by tomorrow), I'll install my new Wilwood aluminum M/C and get everything plumbed and bled out.

Before I go I want to say that I think you guys are really going to dig what I'm doing in terms of wheels & tires for the car. I spent a TON of time on the phone with Jason at Driver's Inc and we've come up with something that I don't think I've seen before. Hopefully I'll have some completed pictures to show off before the week is up! :cheers:

Sounds like it will be a nice handling ride when your done. you've got an awesome car to start with!

looks really good. you subscribe to forbbodiesonly.com? great guys over there.

Cool, love those cars. More pics please. :cheers:

I want to see more:D :D :D

:cheering:

WOW!!!
Looks 100% better!!! I bet it handles 100% better too.
Keep us posted. Nice car.:thumbsup:

Thanks for all the comments, I really appreciate them. There will be plenty more pictures to come.

I've been chomping at the bit to get her running again so that I can see the difference that all the changes make.

Here's a few more pics of the car prior to all the changes to keep ya'll occupied.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...23_x640_01.jpg
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...dRunner003.jpg
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...dRunner004.jpg
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...dRunner006.jpg

Nice.

It is unfortunate that you had to find out the hard way what happens when you allow others to do your work. The only person you can really trust is yourself, that is also the only person you can hold accountable at the end of the day for the decisions made.

Your new direction is a good one! Keep going...

what wheels did you go with

more pics please were all a little impatient :D :D :D

Been a while since my last update but between traveling with work and running into problem after problem there's not bee much to update.

In trying to install the Wilwood rear disc brakes I discovered that the stock rear 8-3/4" axle shafts were not cut to the most exacting standards. The passengers side caliper fit but wouldn't center.....it was off by .015. The driver's side was even worse.......it was off by .125 which wouldn't work at all. After much debate and discussion amongst 3-4 engineers we decided it better to order new axle shafts then to try and machine enough off the stock shafts to make fit.

So it was time to make a quick call to Moser and order some new axle shafts. Once I got the new shafts & bearings in it was funny how much better the Wilwood kit fit. I got all the rear calipers installed, the hard lines run, and the brake system bled.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...build002-1.jpg
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...Rebuild005.jpg

So now with everything done that I originally set out to do it was time to get to the step I've been anticipating for a while.......the wheels/tires.

As I'm sure most of you do.......I spent a TON of time trying to figure out the look I wanted for my car. I knew that I liked the monochromatic black look but wasn't sure about doing the black flat to match the Mopar hood. After quite a bit of discussion with Jon at Driver's Inc we decided it would be a great look if I diamond-cut the edges to give the rims some depth.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...Rebuild008.jpg

Forgeline SS3Ps with Nitto N555 tires. 255/45/18s on the front and 305/40/18s on the rear.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...Rebuild007.jpg

And the obligitory money shot

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...Rebuild006.jpg

I really would like to thank Jon for all the discussion and thoughts on what would/wouldn't work in terms of the wheels. I honestly could not be happier with the way they turned out.

Now it was time for the moment I've been waiting for close to 3 months for........sitting the Chicken back on the ground, adjusting her stance (torsion bars) and getting to see if she came out like I'd pictured in my mind.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...build009-1.jpg
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...build010-1.jpg


Now before I get any flack for the car being on a trailer this needs to be told. Apparently despite my best efforts and research I apparently sized the master cylinder incorrectly. I went with the 7/8" MC instead of the 1" or 1-1/8" and once the brakes were completely bled the pedal goes almost to the floor the first time (though it's solid at the bottom) and then the next several pumps it builds pressure in the calipers and is solid. I think going with a larger MC will allow more fluid to flow. So I had to trailer the car from Dallas to Houston despite feeling like one of "those guys". :thumbsup:

Last pic before I pulled out of the driveway
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...build012-1.jpg

I would also like to extend a special thank you to Frank at Prodigy Customs for all his help on the Wilwood brake kit. I saw all the good things that were constantly said on this board about him and have to say I completely agree with all of them. He's been nothing but helpful. I truly appreciate it.

As soon as the weather gets nice in Houston I'll get her out and washed and see how all the upgrades make the car feel/handle. You can be sure a few more pics will be posted. Enjoy!!!

Where do you live in Houston? I would love to see the car!!

Also, this weather really does suck.. It is so damn windy!! I can't work on my car at all because it is so annoying, and had to give up my stereo install on my camaro up 'till next weekend.

beautiful car! are you going to drop it any? i can suggest fat man customs drop spindles. i have them on my duster,nice units. i have a 1969 gtx clone myself that is in pieces. maybe i will finish it one day. great start on your car!:thumbsup:

Well the weather finally cooperated enough so I could get her out and get a good wash and wax done. Amazing how much better black looks when it's freshly washed then when it's been towed home in the rain!!

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...Rebuild067.jpg
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...Rebuild066.jpg
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...Rebuild070.jpg
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...Rebuild074.jpg

What's amazing though is the comments the wheels are getting. I can't thank Jon at Driver's Inc enough for the help on them. I can't go anywhere without getting multiple comments on them.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...Rebuild068.jpg

A few more detail pics......

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...Rebuild073.jpg
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...Rebuild071.jpg
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...Rebuild072.jpg
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...Rebuild069.jpg

My only problem is that I'm still having issues with the brakes. The pedal occasionally gets soft on the first push and then much harder on subsequent pushes. I thought I still had air in the rear lines somewhere but I've tried both the normal "pump" method as well as gravity bleeding them and am about 99% sure all the air it out yet I can't get rid of the problem.

Any thoughts or ideas are welcome.

Yeah those wheels are spot on, just get that car out of the sky and a little closer to earth!

Those wheels are perfect. Now, just lower that beast.

Dude I'm saving this thread to my favorites. :hail: Hopefully I will get my Charger to this point someday.

You might have a loose brake fitting. It's easy to forget to tighten one. If I'm in doubt I wrap the fittings with tissue paper and see if they get wet.

Those rims are Badazz :thumbsup: :cheers:

NIce ride..I like the look you achieved:cheers:

Two Suggestions:

First, I did not read close enough, but if you still have any original rubber lines on there you may never get the feel you are looking for. Secondly, I woudl suggest what others are saying...possibly a loose fitting.

Good luck and as others have said, gorgeous wheels and car...now drop that bi+ch on the ground!:lol: :D :lol:

Check rotor run out. Any rotor movement side to side on a fixed caliper system can push the caliper pistons in, and cause a low pedal on the first application.

Shiny Side Up!
Bill

Well first of all........thanks for all the kind comments on the car. I'm pretty proud of what I've got so far and think it's only going to get better from here.

In regards to lowering her down.......after having changed so many components in the front end I wanted to see what the stance was back on the ground before I started lowering. I think with the much thicker torsion bars the car is going to ride a little higher then before so some 2" drop spindles and re-arching of the leafs may be in order.

I'm still unsure what's causing the brake problem. All the fittings are tight. The lines are completely bled. Frank at Prodigy thinks it might be a bad master so I'm going to try that as soon as the new one comes in.

My only other thought mildly echoes Bill's point below about the caliper run out. I purchased new Moser axle shafts and had to push new bearings on with the Wilwood backing plates. Wilwood gives a 2.36" dimension from the back of the backing plate to the axle shaft flange. If you go over that you can always shim back.

The passenger side shaft had no problem but the driver's side shaft I could not get it any less then 2.45". The bearing clearly bottomed out on the press with 20T on it. When the rotor and caliper were installed the outside pad was in contact with the rotor and so the caliper isn't totally centered on the rotor and there is no way to shim that side.

After having driven a little this weekend the black coating on the driver's rear rotor is still only 1/2 worn off as opposed to the other 3 rotors where it's completely worn off. I'm beginning to wonder if this is what's causing my problem.

The brakes are very solid, especially after 1 or 2 pumps......there's hardly any pedal travel. But if you don't push the brakes for say a few miles and then step on them........you have to pump them once or twice to get good pedal.

Love the overall look you are going for. Get that thing down about 2" or so and it will look real good. Might need to change the tires as they do look a little thick on there.

Neat car , thinking of doing a Road Runner my self

I suggest running the Magnumforce forged dropped spindles. Much beefier than the Fat Man units and better designed. I've seen them installed and taken off of Tim Herren's Cuda www.alltimeracing . That is a full time track car and he didn't what to chance those.

If you run much more torsion bar than a 1.03 you'll probably have to run a dropped spindle because of the indexing with the larger bars. Talk with Dick Ross at www.firmfeel.com he has big T-bars that are indexed correctly.

Right now you could just lower the front with turning down the T-bars. You might run out of adjustment because of those large diameter 27" front tires. The larger the diameter tires the less adjustment you have on the T-bar adjustment bolts.