People taking shots at G-machines
 

Read this thread. Come on guys, show Freiburger what a true G-machine is all about. They are saying no g-machines did drag week and g-machine owners are afraid to wring their cars out. I know there are plenty of badazz cars here that can kick some butt.

http://forums.hotrod.com/ubbthreads/...gonew=1#UNREAD

I think Frieburger is right; there just aren't that many g-machine type cars out there - yet. But also be aware that Friebuger WANTS something like to happen, and by him poking and prodding, he's trying to get a reaction out of the guys like us that are into the scene. He WANTS us to stand up and show him that he's wrong. A win-win for everyone. :thumbsup:

Keith,the guys at PHR need to feature your car. It's fast,it handles,it's not a Camaro,it looks killer,,what more can they want?

We just want it closer.. lol..

Nice Elky.. and finding nice pt El Caminos is NOT easy..

i agree with him to a point..... i see lots of PT "style" cars on the streets, but when asked if they would be interested in taking it to an open track day...many say "no way" fallowed by the "what ifs". i really dont get it.... kinda like the whole pro-show....er "street" deal, the whole street rod deal, etc..... people spending thousands and thousands of dollars making the car "look" like it would be worthy... but in the end are just building it to be trendy.

i really hope the poking and prodding make an impact. i really hope that the people spending money on gi-hugic brakes, hi-tech suspension parts, big sticky tires...etc...will actually put the cars in a sutuation to use them.

taking an old elco to a road coarse and spanking new technology is exactly what the "sport" is all about. building a 4000hp 4 turbo, twin supercharged, efi, kandy metal flaked , polished billet, sticky tire "show car" and taking it on a muli-state cruise... means nothin to me.

but then again.... what do i know... im just a nobody with a build plan bigger than my budget allows.... but when its done...you can say anything ya want about it...except its a PT "poser"

can i get an amen brotha :D

Car
 

I'm sick of all the BS about "have you taken it to the track". Whatever you want to do with your car is up to the individual, period. People are always judjemental of other people's stuff. Who cares. Build what ya want, do with it what u want and don't look back.

amen!!!
 

i could not have said it better....outstanding stuart!!!!!!

radrambler

Drag week is a single-minded event. Not much fun for a multi-purpose vehicle. Perhaps I'm some kind of rocket scientist, but I can't fathom why a pro-touring guy would want to participate?

Perhaps I can shed some light on the matter. Take Bike Week as an example: There are a lot of bikes because, umm...it's called Bike Week. Not a whole lot of reason to bring your snowmobile, is there?

I found some other examples through a basic Yahoo search:
-Wooden Boat Week: This apparently is a gathering for wooden boats and wooden boat enthusiasts.
-Fine Arts Week: A bit more challenging, but let's try. Here, you would apparently bring your oboe or paint brush--or a poem.
-Antique Week: For antiques.
-Shark Week: While not a "destination" event, Shark Week is apparently about sharks.

So.......?? Drag Week is for drag cars. I'm not sure why that's difficult to understand. Call me kookie, but I can only guess that not one drag car would show up at an event called "Pro-Touring Week".

so i take it that you "need" 1000 TT hp and giant brakes and sticky tires for commuting back and forth to work?

i agree.... do what you want with your money and your car.... but....if somebody is building a car and using the high tech parts to make it go fast, handle like a race car, and stop on a dime.... because thats the "style" or "trend" then i think its a waste of time and money. on the other hand, i give extra props to the guy who is upgradeing his car because it needs it... better brakes, better handling etc...because the owner actually drives the car to a point where it needs "more".

the track talk is more of a way of being pollitically correct, most if not all of us would consider "spirited" street driving a way of life, back roads where the posted speed limits are pointless to our mindset. this is however a lot more unsafe to us, the car, other drivers etc..... than if we were to actually take the car to a track.

my point is simple, if you build a car with upgraded everything because you think you might need it....GREAT. if you build a car and spend gobs and gobs of money on sh!t you dont need, because you are building like the trends mandate, yet never plan on "pushing" the car past the point of what the factory engineered it for.... then you are nothing short of a POSER

too many people are affraid, or unable to think outside the box. they would rather do what has been done time and time again. is there anything wrong with it...NO. but why should they receive special credit for doin nothin original.

i think rad ramblers project is great.... because its different. i think kieth's elky tearing up a road coarse, packin off late model muscle is what its all about, the full tube chassis mustang fastback...a lil extreme... but the idea i love.

these are just my humble meaningless opinions, i know a lot of people disagree with me.... and i really dont care.

btw...this got way off topic i think... PT cars and drag racing go hand in hand, but a PT car at a week of nothin but drag racing.... i think its a lil off.

but i think "PT WEEK" should deffinatley have some drag racing.

Agreed! I which I had two cars. One for the street and one for a road course.

R.P.

You are absolutely right..

Bottom line is, in my opinon, you can build a great "all around" car, one that goes fast in a straight line and handles well but if you really want to excell in each, you do have to change up your car to work well in each venue.

I would like a run with that WS6 Trans AM guy with his 396 rwh... :rolleyes:

SW

Car
 

I am usually quiet and reserved on the board, but race - rodz is smacking some serious BS.

People on this site are not building a car with high tech parts and etc. that you mention just for trend or style to impress someone else or be a POSER, they are doing it because they want to and like to. Have you ever driven a stock Chevelle or 1st gen camaro, they suck. The cars here are fast and handle well and that is what the person building the car wants personally. If they didn't they would be doing frame off #rd matching stuff.

So don't sit out and judge what someone does or doesn't do with THEIR car, some advice would be have positive comments on things you like and no comment on things you don't about someone else's stuff. We all here are friends and share stuff, so when comments like yours are said we all are affected, I guess I have had enough.

I hope what ever your working on satisfies your needs and make you happy.

I am really annoyed by the fact that some people think that they are the ultimate judge on how other peoples cars should be driven.
They challenge the manhood of fellow car lovers by calling them "posers"
In the context in which it is generally used they might as well be calling you a pu..y
(Please don't try and deny that this is what your really thinking)
Personally I wanted a car that looked old school but accelerated,stopped and handled like a newer model high performance car. I intend to enjoy cruising,spirited driving and attending shows. And maybe
(emphasis on maybe) a trip or two to the track for the hell of it.
I am secure enough in my masculinity that I don't have to satisy someone elses idea of how my cars should be driven.
Bottom line...I am just a car guy that appreciates nice cars.
I believe that this is what this hobby is really all about.
I try to avoid dictating to others on how their rides should be used. :)
Scott

Here we go again with the same crap. I for one say spend your "OWN" money how you see fit. If you want a Pro-Street car, great. If you want a 1500hp TT daily driver, so be it. If you want a new Z06, be my guest. If you want a all around solid high performance muscle car, more power too ya. I am getting tired of this revolving door that comes around every 6 months or so .

What I keep wondering is why PT cars are being held to a higher plane the Pro-Street cars were? How many of those actually saw a "track", 1%? My guess is that there is a lot of people in the shadows that want to see PT cars hang around for a long while and not fall into the rut Pro-Street did. I can't seeing it go that way since we are building old cars that emulate modern sports cars that we like to daily.

I for one have gone from building a moderate hp PT Camaro, too something just shy of a street driven race car. Unfortunatley my budget is slower than the evolution of my thoughts. My car will be shown and tracked and I am sure someone will complain about that too.

Mike

This is where you lost me; I was agreeing mostly to this point.

Jody

I believe that PT cars fills a void that previously existed in the hot rodding industry.
I love old muscle. I have owned several muscle cars: vettes,camaros,mustangs etc.. However as Stuart pointed out in an earlier post these cars "suck" in regards to driving experience. Consequently I was always buying and selling trying to find the car that satisfied my needs.
Back to the void..
Pt cars offer the looks of an old school muscle car with the comfort,convenience,drivability and performance of a modern high performance car. Pro Street cars on the other hand did only two things well. Look cool and go fast in a straight line.
I believe that long term PT cars will bring even more people into the hobby.
Wait till the word gets out that you can have a 1969
(insert your fav. brand here) that will match the performance of a C5 Corvette.
Also if you like,you can also have air,tilt,cruise,pw etc...
And last but not least these PT cars will not depreciate as quickly as a new performance car would.. The Pro Touring scene is just getting started.
Scott

Hey,

Maybe we should just start a post about why don't we see the Pro-Street guys runnin' down at the road courses??? I guess the 15"x3.5" welds turn from pizza cutters to tacos in the first turn, too bad. I guess those wrinkle walls don't hold up to any sort of lateral Gs. This complaining about what the other guy doesn't do reminds me of high school. LOL! Oh boy.

I agree with you guys on here so I won't ramble on with my 2 cents.

Still, it'd be funny to see a pack of pro-street cars trying to get around a road course with their drag suspensions and wrinkle walls! LOL. Now that would be somethin'!

John

Build it the way you want it! If your idea of what a PT or G-Machine car should be is different than someone else, great! Bottom line is enjoy it the way you want to.

Race-Rodz closed by stating that his words were his opinion. BUT, history has shown that his opinion is radical. Entire car manufacturers Ferrari, Lambo, etc. exist by taking money from people who, for the most part, NEVER track their cars.

In the early 60's, Enzo Ferrari was more than happy to take money from Hollywood celebs when he made the 250 California Spyders. And that tradition continues today with most supercars. That 1000HP TT car can accelerate from 60 to 120 FASTER than my 500HP car (the reduction in time keeps you from getting busted) I wish I had more power just for that reason alone.

All that is expected of these cars is that they accelerate, stop, and steer. The David Freiburgers and Race-Rodz of the world who insist that the cars must accelerate in 1/4 mile increments or post a lap time are wrong. First and foremost, these cars are hot rods--not race cars. They are forms of individual expression, built to the desires and standards of their owners.

Corvette Z06, F430, or P-T car, it is entirely possible to accelerate, stop and steer without ever hitting a track. Tracking your car is a choice--and a good one, but still just a choice.

If you judge how, when, and where I use my car, you violate the spirit of hot rodding.

Hi Guys, I've been following this post with interest & can see where race-rodz is coming from, unfortunately I think he's tried to impress his opinions on you a little too much.I'm gonna be building my car to compete in circuit racing, so for me the performance of my car outweighs EVERYTHING else! period!!!!!!!!! The class I'm running in is strict & won't allow some of the PT changes that you guys make, but it'd still compete with the best of them. On a previous posting regarding how much hp a car runs (posted by Prodigy customs, hi Frank) everyone was banging on about how the car should be 'charged/turboed/twin turboed or on sniff & how great it was to have mega hp cars, but as I said on there, after a while these cars become tiresome & hard work to drive.I also posted the question on this forum of how the big dia brakes compared with the smaller originals & if anyone had bothered to measure stopping distance, stopping time etc, There wasn't one reply. So.... it seems no-one has ever bothered checking these things, as a racer it's the first thing to do !! I see the front spring rates on a lot of pt cars runs out around 600-650 lbs. Thats no where near what's required for a race developed suspension. On a 1st gen it NEEDS around 1500-1800lbs per side, then you'll have a car that goes 'round corners as if it's on rails & before anyone says about ride quality, it's comparable to a Subaru Impreza or an Evo7. Ok, so my car isn't nescessarily a true pro touring car, but it'll be able to outrun most on a circuit even with much lower hp & with some bigger dia wheels it'll look like a full on PT car, but with full race engine, suspension & brakes.For driveability & raceability I guessmy li'l 'ole 450hp race car would waste an awful lot of high hp, pt cars. BUT & here's the big but!!...........

The point is I'm building this FOR ME !! it's what I want & it'll fulfill all of my needs. That's what it's all about guys, build it for you !! whether you're unsure of whether to 'charge your car or what colour to paint it, at the end of the day it's YOU who have to live with it & drive it.

Sure it'd be nice to see some PT cars out there doing what they were supposedly built for, but at the end of the day if you don' want to then you don't do it. I just pray that the PT movement doesn't just turn into a showqueen movement with people trying to outdo each other in the looks & horsepower stakes just for the sake of it, thtas what happened to Pro street & we don't want to go there do we??? :thumbsup:

I wasnt trying to stir up a debate on how people spent their money or how they use there cars. I was just wanting some guys to think about maybe next year doing some events that they might not have considered. I think PT cars could show the drag only guys a thing or two about what a "performance" car could be. That it can be fast, streetable and do MORE than one thing good. I guess Car Craft Real Street Eliminator might be a better fit for PT cars to compete in. I think it would be cool for a car like the Mule to do drag week and blow Freiburger and others away. That is just my .02 I am in the process (slowly) building a car to do drag week and others events like it next year. I also would like to do some road racing too. :thumbsup:

I didn't take Frieburger's statement as a calling out, but more of a friendly encouragement to get our cars in the spotlight.

And as for the rest of the debate we have going here - I've always wanted to do my own thing and try new ideas. There's no mold we have to fit, it's all about doing what we love and being supported by a community that can empathize with the challenges.

I think Steve summed it up pretty well with his "bike week" description. Having an event called "Drag Week" sure doesn't sound too appealing to a pro-touring car. When I hear that description, I'm thinking big block nitrous cars, backhalved, getting 5 mpg, running 8s or quicker.

I haven't seen any pro-touring cars fit that description, or run 8s.

I'm primarily a drag racer, and I raced the hell out of my previous '69 pro-touring car (10.7 ET), but even I wouldn't have any interest running at an event called "Drag Week" in it. So, I don't think Freiburger's comments hold any value in regards to pro-touring cars participating in Drag Week.

I can completely understand why someone would be reluctant to put their car on the track. Whether it be a new Vette, Viper, Ferrari, PT car, or other. Some of these cars are pretty expensive. Most PT cars have a lot of money and TIME invested in them. One mistake or mechanical failure on the track can result in serious damage to your vehicle. It happened to the Ford GT40 Wednesday. When I arrived at the track I saw the GT sitting there and my first thought was, some rich guy is showing off his brand new toy. It never entered my mind that it would actually be driven and I'm a little ashamed I thought that way. But he took the risk and drove it. And he drove it HARD! And he made a mistake and it resulted in some pretty serious damage to a brand new $150,000+ car. Some people are just not willing to take that risk and I can completely understand. It was my first time on a road course with the El Camino and now I have to either repair or replace my windshield. Not an expensive repair thankfully, but that's the kind of thing that can happen.

I would encourage everyone to get their car on the track simply for the driving experience and because it's fun. Not because you need to prove that your car is worthy and not a "Poser".

I'm regretting not doing Drag Week now after hearing Freiburger's comments. I didn't hear about Drag Week until after I got home from the Power Tour/Chevellabration. If I had, I would have done Drag Week instead of the PT. Doing both would have been a stretch. I had already taken too much time off from work and family activities. Even so, I seriously thought about it. I live in the Minneapolis, MN area so it was perfect geographically. I don't know how they finally broke out the classes but last I heard they were going to have a 12.0 class. I told myself if I can run consistent 12.0's and be competitive, I'll do it. As it turns out, 12.48 is the best I've been able to muster so far. I'm going drag racing Saturday so we'll see if I can improve on that. I'm not doing the Power Tour next year so I'll be looking for something else, preferrably some type of racing event like Drag Week, RSE, or road racing.

Put your marketing hat on and spend some time over at the Hot Rod.com forum, or hotrodders.com. You can also scan the readers letters and tech letters published in Hot Rod every month.

Do this often enough and you will see that the traditional "old school" street/strip enthusiast--Keystone Classics and all--still reigns supreme. Pro-Touring is but a hair on the zit on the ass of hot rodding in general. It is a tiny, tiny segment of the total enthusiast population.

As an editor seeking to bolster circulation, criticizing Pro-Touring could be a good thing. So you put together a limited scope event called Drag Week and then go: "HA! I KNEW IT! NOT ONE PRO-TOURING CAR SHOWED UP! HA! I WAS RIGHT!..." Wow, way to prove a hypothesis, Sherlock.

If we wish to nurture the ideal of multi-purpose hot rods, our first goal should be to stick together.

Brothers and Sisters.....can I get an AMEN??!!!!!!

Hey, I've had my gripes with Mr. Frieburger in the past but since then I've toned them down some. I think he's a pretty good guy that doesn't mean to piss anyone off with his criticisms (although he does). I agree with Scott, I believe he's just trying to encourage us to get our cars out there and stretch their legs to prove their capability. However....he's picked the wrong event to do that at. I could see if it were an event at Road Atlanta or something and not one Pro-Touring car showed up, THEN he would have something to bitch about. But a drag racing event? Dave....c'mon, for the love of God already. I certainly hope that if there ever is indeed a 'G-Machine' week at Road Atlanta or some other venue and no Pro-Street or Drag Cars show up that he'll call them out too.

Build your car for what you want and do with it what you want to do with it with....your car.....err, something like that. :_paranoid

Keystone Classics... lol...

Steve, you're probably right about the size of the protouring community, but I also think we're the fastest growing segment, too.

Couldn't agree more!! :yes:

I actually like the fact the pro-touring it still a small community. I like having pretty much the only pro-touring car in my area. If I showed up at a cruise, and everyone had a pt car, I might have to build a pro-street car, :eek: .

wow... been away for a while..i see this spiraled out of control.

i did say that they were just my opinions... and a lot of people probably wouldnt agree.... but i should have clarified the one comment that i think got everyone excited.

the POSER comment was meant as a direct relation to the pro-street "poser" trend.... back halved cars with huge blowers stickin out of the hood.... cars built for the sole purpose of fallowing the current "trend".... they were cool at the time...yes... but for the most part were just worthless show cars.

i realalize there are a lot of guys out there who can afford to build or buy the cars with all the cool "trendy" go-fast, handle good, stop great parts. there is nothing wrong with it at all....... but in my worthless opinion.... they shouldn't be building the car just to "show off"... IF they would be throwing the money at it in a genuine interest of making the car better. yes the cars from the factory 35 years drive like sh!t today... but in all honesty...its good enough if all you plan on doin is driving it to work and home. now by upgrading everything, you make the car more fun, enjoyable, comfortable, SAFE.... then you are doing it because you feel it needs it...even if that is just for the trip home from work, which if that trip turns into the long way home so you can catch your favorite twisty back road... then that falls into the "pc correct" track deal.


for the most part.. i feel my comments are usually positive, or atleast consructive critisim. i dont think i have ever purposely gone out looking to stir sh!t up, and when i say something that obviously starts a bit of controversy...well i go back and re-explain myself. i aslo remind everyone...that it is just my opinion... and if you like it or not...its not gonna be changed.

btw... the plan of my personal project evolved.... if you look back at my 1st project intro when i said it would have a forced induction sbc...etc etc.... then later when i realized it didnt "need" it for what i plan on doing... it went to something else, and now its different yet again. i try to look for ways to be outside the box, usually i just want to be different... and thats what great about this hobby...i can do what i want.... and it doesnt matter if everyone else likes it or not.

I agree w/Stuart's sentiments.

magazines are slinging a lot of crap too.

Why is everyone trying so hard to DEFINE everything?

Frieburger and his goofy sandals can take a leap.

Build your car, do what you want with it.

As for me, I don't get into trailer-queen show cars, but one man's junk is anothers art now isn't it?

Sorry, I could not help it, I had to post over there. Steve, I "borrowed" your idea as to why no one showed up to the drag week. :thumbsup:
Frieburger is right though, if we are to get respect, we gotta cowboy up.

I have gone through my phases, at 15 I had a 65 GTO 3 duce 389 4 speed, post coupe. Handled like a loaded running washing machine on a creeper with a stuck wheel.

Went through my Senior year Drag racing phase, I found it was the fastest way to make a lot of money into a little money.

Went through my want a Ferrarri phase, note I said want.

Went through my living with a Fix-up car in the garage when I was first married with kids, stayed in that phase up until about 8 years ago when my career took off.

Now I want a statement, I have the money and the knowhow. What I dont know I pay people to know for me. I will spend a buttload on my car and drive it like it was stolen or rented. I will not apologise for that. I have a bigger House and a lot of acreage, but I am not posing as Jed Clampet. I will have a 850 horse convertible G-machine that has legitimate insurance and if I wreck it, I'll get another. I am not posing as Dan Gurney or Kenny Bernstein.

Most of the guys here, at least the mature guys, support each other. This Poser BS is Juvenile. Pose as a smart guy and leave this dissention BS to the flys and the Barnyards.

Friberger is in the business of selling advertisment in his mag and getting us to buy stuff from companies that have Big Hootered women standing by the product. Its his job. I won't fall for that Baiting crap, dont you. There are plenty of other boards to piss up walls on.

Go there and stay.

Fine. But if he hosts "Demolition Derby Month", I'm busy!

i should probably just leave this alone..... but i would like to make it clear that i was not refering to ANYBODY as a "poser".... i did a piss poor job of trying to explain my point of view by comparing "poser" pro street show cars...to a PT car that that has been modded to its full potential...yet is never given the chance to perform in ways the mods were designed.

i 100% agree with the "do what you want with YOUR car", but my OPINION is that it is pointless to build a PT car that is just for looking at. i really dont feel im trying to "define" anything. if anything i think im trying to push the point of "change is good"..... i feel the cars that step outside the "norm" should recieve extra attention. these are the cars that are influencing the evolution of the hobby.

i also 100% support the guys who are willing to "risk" damage to the car they have spent so much time, energy, and money building. this might put them in an "elite" crowd, but its not really any different than the guys just who take the long way home from work in an effort to enjoy the car.

i do jump to judgment when i see a car built 100% for wow factor, and will never see any kind of "abuse"(lack of a better term).... it just means i have an opinion.... and dont expect everyone to agree with it.

like i said earlier... i give extra props to the guys who do something different, like tearin up a roadcoarse with an elky, throwin a I6 dohc jdm powerplant in an early nova, an 18 y/o & his old man building a show quality 800hp street monster will full intentions of tearin up tracks after its inital showing, the guy who is willing to drive his car like a stolen rental car, the guy who is trying to push his lexus into the 9's.....the list goes on and on and on. in reality it doesnt make these cars any better than the cars built just to cruise, but why shouldn't they get extra credit for actually having the nerve to go out and risk something bad happening.

im done trying to justify my OPINIONS, i think i have clarified my previous statements.....you guys can continue flaming me all ya want, because unlike a lot of people in life...i do practice what i preach, my "shop truck" WILL be at silverstate, pony express, thunderhill, autocross and the dragstrip next year.... along with daily driven shop truck duties.

btw... i appologize for this spiraling so far off the original topic, and by my responce, i realize that i am contributing the the pissing match, but i felt clarification of the previous statemnets was justified