Ok Builders, I need some input... (pics)
 

I have a customer car here, that was brought to me Aug. '07 as a running driving "rust free" car.

http://inlinethumb29.webshots.com/59...500x500Q85.jpg

And after some dimantling I found some damage starting with the cowl that was held on with latex caulk and rivets.. these pics were taken 9/07

http://inlinethumb61.webshots.com/18...500x500Q85.jpg

once we got the interior out of it, the floors looked pretty solid.. lets just say somebody did a good job of hiding..

http://inlinethumb31.webshots.com/16...500x500Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb01.webshots.com/16...500x500Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb13.webshots.com/17...500x500Q85.jpg

This is some of what we found after having it soda blasted...

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...soda20010a.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...3l/67floor.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3.../RRdismant.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...23l/rocker.jpg

So before it was said and done, it was four frame rails welded to a table... (pics taken 12/07)

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...0vert20021.jpg

In the end found out that the car was actually 3 cars, it had been cut in half and the back half from a different car had been brazed on (yes I said brazed) along with both floors.

So after alot of fabrication and metal work we got the whole car mocked up, remember it has a full Griggs Racing GR350 suspension, a Terminator motor and a T56.... even because of the watts link had to run the exhaust through the trunk and back out to the stock location..

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...haust20033.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...haust20030.jpg

And here's where I stand with the car as of today.. notice the '05-'09 trans tunnel in the car.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3.../Tunnel013.jpg


And finally here where I need some input... I started the disassembling of this car 9/07, I have has this car for 18months now. I have Alot of other restorations/projects in the works and don't get to work on this car everyday (as most of us don't) and it's just Paul and I here, Paul helps with the mechanical and assembly of the cars but as far as the metal,body work,and paint... is just me.. I have tried to find good help, but have all but given up on that... but anyways, here's my dilema... the customer is constantly complaining that i have had his car for entirely too long, and now since he has invested over $60K into the car (that's including the $16K purchace price of the car) he's really getting impatient and trying to cut ALOT of corners with the car. This car will be at SEMA this year and you guys know as well as anyone this car done is a 6 figure car... I really don't know what to say to this guy anymore, no matter what I say to him he just doesn't see why it is taking so long... even with the amount of work that's been done! Is this an unreasonable amount of time for what I have done? There is a show in 6 weeks and he wants the car there... regardless.

Please, any imput would be appriciated... positive or negitive...

Thanks
Jason

You can never tell an artist how quickly he should take to create his art. An artist must be inspired and WANT to complete the art otherwise you just have a build and not a creation.

I understand he wants to box you in but I really think he's cutting his nose off despite his face.

Honestly, the only one that can say that you've taken too long is you.

I will say this, there has been an INCREDIBLE amount of work done on that car...


ETA: I realize this is my first post but I don't think that should change the message...

That is a misconception that every guy getting into this gig has....why does it take so long. It's something you just have to experience through building a car. I'd introduce him to the forums and the projects. The start and finish dates are documented int he builds. Seems like you have had the car a long time for the amount of work. But it sounds like you're over worked. Maybe you should give him the option to take the car. Sounds like you have made some decent money on him. Custom ain't cheap!

$60K is that all

Gees, my car is a top end show car, and all up I have $120K in it already and haven't even gone to paint, electrical or interior yet...I suspect at least another $70K+ to go.

Mind you they are all Australian Dollar amounts but still more than $60K US.

My car was started in July 2007. I was pushing for a Dec 09 finish but the builder was getting way way too stressed and I don't want a stressed builder so last week I said take as long as you need, do it right, not do it fast.

It will likely end up being a 3 year build.

You do awesome work, and that car will be stunning when done.

Us customers can be a pain in the a$$. Impatience is something we all have when we have a dream and want it on the road.

I agree with earlier posters. Have the customer come spend some time up on these forums or talk to other builders.

Love your work and keep us posted.

I hope I don't upset folks here, but this very issue has been a subject of conversation in my group of friends lately. I somewhat disagree with the previous posters. It seems to me that there are two things that don't usually go together in this business, talented craftsmen and businessmen. This car has only been in your shop too long if it has! I know that sounds stupid. Stick with me. What did you 2 agree on originally? If it was 12 months lets say, it has been there too long. It seems written estimates and quotes are very scarce when it comes to building cars. You imply that the car was not as it was suppose to be when you dug into it. IMO you should have stopped and amended the "written" agreement at that point. If the customer felt it was too much than he has the option to stop. If you have a contract it is up to both parties to live up to it. If the customer stops paying than again you update the contract with the new ETD. After all, if this is your business than you should handle it as such. In most cases when I have read and heard about cars being in prison in a shop, there were no contracts. If there is no target then how are you going to get there? Oh, and I can't stand when I hear how many cars guys have to work on and they use that as an excuse for not meeting deadlines. How many can you do with the staff you have? If you have more than you can handle in a reasonable agreed on amount of time, then that is your fault. That is not an acceptable answer to me. I have to determine the work load for my group every time we bid a new job. I give delivery estimates based on hours available. We don't take jobs we can't deliver on. Simple. It just goes back to WHAT DID YOU GUYS AGREE ON? If the answer is it was a verbal discussion, then I would say you have a problem. I don't see a good ending for either side. I would do what you can to stay professional and get to the end. Oh and I speak from personal experience. We had a "verbal" deal to have a specific amount of work done on our truck for "X" dollars and "X" weeks. In the end it was "2X" dollars an "12X" weeks. No exaggeration. Anyway, I'll get off my soap box. It looks like you do good work, I wish you the best of luck.

Respectfully,

2x exact

There is no specific deadline...There are things being done on this project that have not been done before. It is easy to put together a dated time of completion if you are building a cookie cutter car that every variable can be forseen but when you are going into an area of unkown it is not something you can realistically pin down a deadline and as such no deadline was given or promised and that was agreed upon. The frustration we both share is from the owners "push" to finish it for this show...he is excited about the car and wants to drive it but the patience isn't there at times as well as the experience with building a car like this as he has never had a car like this before.

Every time there has been a game plan change he has been there, we have not just proceeded without his input. Other factors that were not forseen are things like the economy on his end as it affects everyone so naturally he is going to show some concern there.

In the end I don't think he realizes the kind of car he is going to have and I think once he drives it he will finally realize it....in one discussion we had he mentioned wanting to build a Factory Five Cobra and one major thing he didn't realize and what he probably won't fully realize until he drives both and compares them is that this car will blow the FF Cobra away in handling but without a comparison of either car he just doesn't know what to expect.

In the end it just gets frustrating to be pushed when you are creating something of this level. As far as deadlines go....I don't promise deadlines on restorations or builds....There is a saying that I like....There is right now and there is right.....we do it right not "right now" if someone wants a rush job then I politely tell them that they would be better off going elsewhere...if they want it right then I'll be happy to help them. Rushing projects leads to shortcuts and inferior quality builds....you see them all the time.

WOW.... you have alot of work in that car. In my opinion 18 months isnt that bad for the work into that car.....but 18 months is a long time.

Question...did it take that long because of your end alone? In other words, were there any big breaks due to waiting on the customer or parts etc ?

Question #2....is this car some very valuable model etc ? If I had that car and saw the carnage, I would have stopped and gotten a different car....unless its some rare car...in which case, you would have been better off going "original". Thats a pretty thrashed car to start with and unless the customer was dead set on using that exact car, it would have been much better to start all over on a better starter car.

Last question....can you give me the info on those exhaust tips? I'm "in the market" and like those.....

Jason / Paul,

First, I mean no disrespect at all and I agree there is a right way and the fast way. In my first post I was just trying to say there should be some target and preferably in writing. It looks like you have been doing this for awhile, therefore I still believe you should be able to put some legitimate estimates to this work no matter how bad the car gets. Progress meetings can take care of that and it sounds like you do that. I'm just saying formalize it. Just saying you never know what you get into so I won't give an estimate is a cop out in my opinion. From the pictures, you have been around the block and should have an idea of what it takes to fix everything you have encountered. I estimate the cost of building 1 off million dollar pieces of equipment on a regular basis. If I told my customers this hasn't been done before so I can't put a number on it, I would never get an order. That's just not how business is done and saying you can't put a price or time limit on art is just a bad TV cliche. In the end I am not trying to argue, I'm just trying give another point of view. I certainly can understand the customer being anxious. You are building one bad a$$ ride for him and hopefully he won't push it and cost the overall project. I think my point is made and I don't want continue beating this nag.

On a side note, where in Birmingham are you guys? I graduated from Pelham High School. I lived in the B'ham area for 3 years as a transplant because of my Dad's job. I loved it. Maybe I'll get back there someday. :thumbsup:

Later,

Look like Borla's

edit - wrong answer, but Borla has a similar style with the slanted double wall tip

No offence taken, that's why I said positive or negative input. I understand where your coming from...

thanks

We're about 30 mile east of B'ham off of I20..



actually they are magnaflow...

yea in one of the pics you can faintly see the magnaflow lable etched on them.

to totally derail this thread...
http://www.borla.com/media/prod_images/large/20153.jpg

:D

you have hijacked this this thread and you must die... bwuuuhahahahaha...

:rofl: :rofl:

Wow... I have to giggle on this one a little.

I mean... eighteen months ago you were delivered a well disguised bag of sh*t. In that eighteen months... you basically did a "Frame off" restoration, to the likes that no one has seen before and would never try to begin with... and then I hear that the game plan has changed whilst in route to it's end game ?? Oh... and don't tell me... you are also running a business and he isn't your only customer ??

And... somehow, this is your fault ??


That's comedy. You should tell him that he's lucky it has only been eighteen months with a two man crew. Especially considering what it is that you have actually accomplished.

Tell him he should check out Lateral-G.net, Pro-Touring.com and introduce himself... and then suggest that he educate himself to the logic and common sense involved with a project of this magnitude. And...

We'll take care of the rest. :D


Seriously. You need to make him aware that if this requires you to push some other work aside to meet his deadline of SEMA 2009... that you will need to adjust the rate at which you charge to do said work. Personally, I would adopt my theory for correcting the scale...

For example:

Normal rate: $75 an hour

You want it tomorrow: $100

You want it today: $150 an hour

You want it when !?!! : $!?!! an hour


If a client wants exclusivity... the client will have to pay the exclusivity tax.

BTW... nice work. The late model tunnel idea gets props. Kudos

Very Well said, sounds like a deal to me....

There was some time waiting for parts for example once we got down to what was left and put together the parts list there was a short wait for the truckload of sheetmetal. However there were other cars in the shop ahead of him in line so there were times when the other jobs had a priority and he understood that going in. In the end I know he is excited about the car and that is the reason for him "pushing" on it.

There was nearly a 2 month search to find a donor for the rear drain channel specific to the convertible...it is not reproduced and the labor to duplicate it would have been extensive....once we located a donor we were back to work again.

No, it is a standard C code 289 2V pond scum green convertible...factory A/C, deluxe interior....the base car was a run of the mill car. He searched and searched to find a solid car and this one was represented as such. The problem is that a lot of this was really well hidden by a previous owner...the fenders and quarters were rust free...the quarters were even Ford replacements so it appeared good. The seller even placed those thin refrigerator magnets on the panels to show him it was metal. Once we got into the car though it was past the point of being able to just put the car back together and sell it....it was a loss at that point so what do you do? He just decided to push forward....we would have been at the same level buying a $400 piece of junk but once the car was torn down, blasted and the mess discovered it was past the point of no return so the initial investment in the car was a loss. Some of the parts that were useable and not needed were sold off but that was not much of a dent in the overall purchase. The seller of the car was a Mopar guy in South Texas who took the car in on trade so he didn't know the history of the car.

I have another customer with a '69 Fastback that also got taken but his was more mechanical shortcomings than body but the initial investment was similar. I always suggest someone bring a car to us for inspection before buying....not easy with this car being in Texas and I did look at the pictures and gave him my impression based on the information put in front of me. The guy with the 69 is local...the finance company told him they required an inspection so he didn't bring it to us....he should have because he bought a $5K car for $15K but that's another story.

The exhaust tips are Magnaflow: http://www.magnaflow.com/02product/s...e=main&id=8221

They are too wide for the stock valance opening on the Mustang, we had to widen the opening for them to fit.

Nice work! :thumbsup:

Just out of curiosity what was or is the customers budget? What were/are his expectations for the car?

From my experience customers have "scope" creep, which means they continually think about new or different things to do. The problem with that is what you are facing right now he doesn't understand what those changes mean in time and money. Communication is key and it sounds like you both aren't on the same page. Remember it's "his" car so getting on the same page, with the same goal is paramount. Building a car is all about comprimises if he wants it done for a show, then a path needs to be laid out for him to get to that goal. He will realize once shown what the car will look like going down that path. And he may be alright with that...

I'd get paid up to date and tell him to take the car elsewhere. He'll probably screw you over in the end.

:yes: :yes:

I totally disagree with changing the shop rate to have it done faster.

The customer wil not get twice as much work for twice as much pay and you can't work twice as fast. In this case dollars does not equal speed.

If the problem is that the car is not getting worked on, thats one problem.
If the problem is that the customer can only afford 2400 a month (44k divided by 18 months) thats another problem.
If the customer is just impatient and can afford it then 65 per hour, times 40 hours per week, times four weeks per month equals the of the labor bill per month to have the car done. $10400, Can the customer afford this bill?

But which is it? Money or time?

If the customer just can't understand why it takes so long to build things
1. He can't understand HOW things take so long to build and complete.
or
2. He can't afford for you to hire more help to make the job go faster.You could be billing him $20800 per month for two guys working on the car.


It sounds like the customer can't understand why building a car takes SO MUCH TIME. If this is correct you have to ask
1. Can I make the customer understand why it takes so long to build.
2. Can I (Paul) build the car any faster? Why am I not working on the car 40 hours a week. If the customer can pay more for more hours of work and I do have more hours of work to work on the car.

It really sounds like the customer can't understand WHY it is taking so long.
Which means to me he can't understand why it takes so long for certain tasks.
This leads to client education.
Is the client getting a very detailed bill?
Is the client getting alot of pictures?
Is the client stopping by the shop weekly or monthly so you can go over the progress?

If the client just can't understand why it takes so long to weld up a panel and make alignment changes you are going to have problems in the future.
In the future I mean if he thinks it should take a couple of hours to (for instance) wire the car and it takes three or four days to complete he's going to hit the roof.

You know the customer better than we do, but
1. figure out if the client can understand how long things really take to build and complete. Is this a time issue or a budget problem or is he impatient.

2. Maybe its time to let this project go and avoid the problems that are going to get worse as the project nears completion and the dollars escalate and the visual 'look what we got done' diminishes.





Mick


Paul, good having dinner with you at SEMA, (next time not Italian) we'll have to do it again next year.

Mick, The problem I think is that he just doesn't "get it" when it comes to what it takes. This is frustrating at a point when you explain it to him and he watches first hand what is involved yet he still just doesn't seem to get it. We have even showed him other projects online and followed the timeline where something like the build Reenmachine did took from painted to finish (reassembly) was 2 1/2 years. I don't know if he just doesn't get it or refuses to let it sink in. I allow him to come to the shop one day a week and get his hands dirty...hoping things sink in but in the end I can't think that it is anymore than just impatience....and I don't think it is intentional but maybe just the way he is. Funny thing is that I have another of his cars in the shop that he bought just getting it roadworthy and I am dying to get it out of here but he just isn't in a rush on that car(which he could be driving...granted it's just a stock Mustang).

We've been over the budget thing with him....originally he wanted a basic Shelby clone but then as was mentioned earlier started changing things. I've explained to him that you can't suddenly put Granite countertops in a house you are building and expect the cost to remain the same as Formica. The cost usually has not been an issue but once before when things were tight he suddenly started in on the cost....I sat down with him and we had a talk and he apologized and said he was that way because things were tight. Communication is key and we keep that door open all the time. I think one of the problems aside from his impatience is just the way he comes across to Jason....rule of thumb is that you don't want to annoy the guy cooking your dinner and you don't want to annoy the guy building your car....enthusiasm for the meal or build is going to be reduced if it is associated with something that annoys you. I think Jason is trying to find a nice way to ask him to just leave him alone and let him build and his asking for input here is because he wants to make sure he isn't out of line with his thinking before talking with him. There is going to be no problem having this project finished for SEMA but trying to finish it for a Mustang show next month is just unreasonable really.

and This year yes, we have to definitely get together again....we had a great time! This time I am booking a hotel that is more convenient!

Guy may be a pain in the aise but he let you rebuild that turd and spent 60k on a shell. Has to be a few cards short of a full deck. He's definitely up to his eye balls on the project. I would never get that deep into a car...ever.

what I'd like to know is what does a shop like Foose or Troy charge when its crunch time to get a car ready for a show and there are 5 guys working on the car 6 or 7 days a week? Is it shop rate times 5? That could get outrageous. Is that why cars stay at there shop months after the car is revealed so the owner can catch up and make payments?

This happens ALOT with early mustangs. I would never EVER buy a restored mustang coupe..:mad:

This was a learning experience for everyone in that aspect...think about how many cars that even cross Barrett Jackson that sell for a lot of money are just thrown together cover up jobs. There is a guy here south of Birmingham that bought a '68 Shelby "recreation" at BJ for $60Kish....later when he got to looking at it he noticed "shapes" in the floor pan...pulled the carpet and saw matching "shapes" on the top as well...turns out the floors had a LOT of small riveted patches put in and then had bedliner sprayed on the top and bottom of the floors to cover it up.

At this point I'd rather just buy a pile of junk to start with...at least you know what you have and anything good is a bonus.

The '69 Fastback we have here was sold as a 351 powered GT and the inspector noted that...the inspector even wrote down that the suspension had been "rebuilt" when in fact it was all original except for the cut and clamped front springs(see pic)....the list is HUGE on things that were obvious on this car that were problems and it was a 302 under the hood and the gas cap was from a '68...that's where he got the GT part. Unfortunately the customer was not well informed on Mustangs and when the finance company told him that they required an "inspection" and that he had to pay $200 for it he figured it was going to actually get "inspected"....I could have done a better inspection driving by at 55mph! When he confronted the finance compnay their response was "Well, we just require them to verify the car is actually there"....really sad.

I didn't read any of it but, $75 for 100 hours over a year, or $150 for 100 hours over... well.. 100 hours. I can see why there is a price difference.

It works this way with EVERYTHING. If you want it NOW, expect to pay MORE.

Honestly, if his changing things at the last minute is adding time and expense that he cannot see later on, I'd start having him sign and date Change Order notes that give a realistic time addition and cost the change will add. That way when it comes time to pay up, if he balks, you have a stack of docs to back up EVERYTHING you've done.

If it goes to court (no one wants to think about that, but it is reality) you don't want to be on the short end of the stick.

In a court of law, he who documents the most, wins...

?
 

Well for one there comes a point where you realy should tell your customer .. JUST BUY SOMETHING MORE SOLID...

his time will be saved your time will be saved to many shops want to just run that labor bill up fixing whatever they have to when the customer would be better served by being told the simple truth.

Also far to many shops take in multiple cars when they simply can not work on them..

i see it every day a shop has two guys < a chasis shop for example > and they got three cars there already needing work.

a fourth guy shows up and they say sure I can do it just to get the job in there.. then so they can collect money from each person they do a little on one car then a little on the other then a little on the other etc etc.

a simple rule can stop all this..

DON"T take in work that 1 the customer cant pay for you to work continualy on unless the customer specificly understands the project will take extreme amounts of time.

and 2 dont take in another car if you got a car a customer who will pay you to finish by working non stop on it and wants to.

I am about to finish a full frame off resto mod including paint etc on a car and i have a total of 5 weeks invested so far in the car and i only have me and two employess one of wich is just a shop errand runner.

I mean soda blasted to bare metal, every nut and bolt replaced, a new engine built, full vete brakes, powder coated suspension, and rear end, and sub frame, as well as a new transmission, and full reproduction interior, custom stereo, covans dash, etc etc there is nothing left of the old car except the floor and the rear half.. new trunk floor but other wise non rusted car.

The total turn around by time im done painting the car will have been 6 or 7 weeks and ill make as much or most likely more in that time as i would have trying to take multiple cars a little at a time and without the headache of complaining customers over time taken, or having to track multiple builds etc etc.
I understand this is not the same situation with all the custom work you have done you simply need to tell people either you are going to have to give me xx per week so i can work on your car solid or you will have to just wait and have it done as it can be done.

as hard as it may be for some of the smaller shops to do you also some times you just have to say no i cant do it right now.

Okay so you have 2 guys working on the car or just one guy?

I've seen this before but it doesn't apply to everyone...We have seperate accounts for seperate customers and money is NEVER used from one customer to work on anothers car...that is a personal pet peeve of mine.

Sometimes one can take on a project they really don't have time for because they are too nice and trying to accomodate everyone. I've been guilty of that and I've stopped trying to accomodate everyone anymore because it just comes back to haunt you. I told this customer that I had other cars ahead of him and he understood that....and his car has jumped ahead of others due to the push on time which is not fair to the other customers and I probably should not have allowed myself to be pushed that way...but again, trying to be nice and accomodating.

Anyone who has ever run a shop knows that you have to work on more than one job primarily because a customer who wants to pay you to work constantly on the car are not around every corner....most customers cannot afford to pay you 40 plus hours each week and most customers don't want to have that expense. We do some quick install work here and there as well as full restorations/builds.....the restoration/big projects are worked on around quick in and out installations and I tell everyone that going in so they understand and do not/should not expect constant non stop work on their car. If that is what they desire then that would be the time to speak up.


Addressed above.

That customer is a rare bird these days....very few that come in with the "cost is not a concern" attitude so you work with them....and in doing so there is going to be other work in and around theirs.

That's great....unfortunately I don't currently have customers that are willing to spend what it takes to do that. I'd be more than happy to schedule someone to come in for us to do just that. But the reality is that most people while they want to build a car want to save money where they can.

I agree and I have done that....we have a waiting list right now because of that. I am currently not filling slots when a car leaves because I want to thin out the work load a bit.

As I said, I tend to be too nice at times and accomodate everyone but I have been changing that. We have a waiting list but even with that I am not filling the slots in the shop as we get them done because I want more room and less ongoing jobs. Help is another story....we have tried multiple times to bring in help but good help is impossible to find....you either get a kid that quits when he finds out there is real work involved or you get someone who tries to steal from you....it just wasn't worth the drama. So as a result we stay covered up...

There is always a learning curve and you always tweak things to help things run better....you are never done learning. My downfall is trying to make everyone happy.

How much of this work are you doing? how much is subed out? i.e. engine, trans, paint, interior, etc... just wondering..

Out of curiosity........is this South Texas Mopar guy a dealer or was it a private individual? I bought my '68 Road Runner off a guy in Hutto TX (really central TX) that has pulled many of these EXACT same things with me.

If you won't put it out on the board, feel free to PM me as I'd really be interested to know if it's the same guy.

I don't recall the city he was in but it was about 25 or so miles from the Mexican border. The car originally came to him from Dallas. This guy claimed to be a dealer and he travels to shows because he was planning a trip to PA for Chryslers at Carlisle.

Texas Toy Box is the guy I purchased my Road Runner from but Hutto TX is near Austin and that's not 25 miles from Mexico.

Not sure if it's the same guy but many of the tricks you describe sound like the exact things that were done to my car.

Sorry for the hijack.

one and a half.
 

one guy whos sole job is to work on that car and my other guy is on it whenever we don't have anything for him to do on the other lift.

I under stand its rare to find a customer who will pay for non stop work wich is why i dedicate one lift to that and another to off on jobs.

I have two employes.

i assign one guy to work non stop on large jobs on one side of the shop and the other helps him and when a short term quick job comes in he drops off to do that job.

i work out back one everything long and short depending on whats needed at the time plus at the counter/showroom

The only work not done here at my shop was the actual soda blasting and powder coating we removed the chassis suspension stuff and disasemled it droped it off to be blasted then took it to be coated.

the engine was removed and we ordered the parts had a block machined then assembled the entire engine here at my shop
the trany was a complete built unit from my trans supplier

Everything else was done here in house.. We dont build our own controll arms or anything like that its a built from buyable parts car.

but thats what 99 percent of the cars you build are

then there is the 1 percent that you have to just custom build everything .. and those should realize at the out set thats a LOOOONG term project.

I agree, too often in this business things are done verbally and without proper scopes of work. Everyone needs to be better in this regard because it is important to remember that the people that can afford to just pay someone to build the car like this can also afford to hire attorneys when they feel slighted and believe me they will. I actually know a guy in that position and I talked to the guy who was suing to see if he was open to a settlement. His response: "I don't want money, I have money - I want to see that SOB broke and out on the street. I don't care what it costs."

Obviously, not everyone is like that, but having a paper trail in place can only help you in these situations.

It also does another thing - it helps manage the customers expectations. As they are constantly having to sign paperwork, it makes them stop and think about things and decide if its really important to them. Most issues like this arise out of a lack of communication. Customer wants car done by X, then decides he also needs a full cage and a 4-link rear suspension. If your answer is "no problem" or something like that, then in the customer's mind, you can still get it done on time. So making them sign something saying they understand that this is a significant change and that it will cause the project to take x days longer is going to benefit you.

Lastly, if a shop takes on too much work and a customer who is paying and current on their bills has every right to be frustrated when they stop by and see that no work has been done on their car. That situation is not their fault.

Ok... I talked to the guy that owns the car and let him know that the car wouldn't be done by the Mustang 45th anniversary on April 16, but I could have the car at the show as a "work in progress" and after a little persuasion, he agreed. But told him that the car will be done for SEMA. Which I don't see any problems with. And am actually looking forward to.


I appriciate all the suggestions and comments, some have made me think differently about how I do things...

Again thanks..