Art Morrison vs Detroit Speed.
 

I want to buy a sub frame for my camaro but i am up in the air between Art Morrison and DSE so i figured i would ask everyone their thoughts.

Speedtech was good enough for my front end. But with the rear Im going with Morrison. The Morrison rear just has too many positives.

come on guys help me i'll be spending alot of money on this i need your opinions.

I think the bottom line is get the one you think looks best. The performance of the two is pretty much a wash.

Don

Both are great choices.. we've tested cars with both and they consitently turn in our fastest times.

The DSE unit offers a more OEM look while the AME unit is C6 based. You can't go wrong either way so get what you like.

If I had to do over again, I would have my eye on a Art Morrison full frame:
http://www.trakon.net/customs/build/build-14/9.jpg

The DSE sub is the ****. I'm not just saying that because I heard it was. I have it in my car. Fit and finish is outstanding and the handling and ride is on or beyond new sport cars. The DSE sub is tested and ran on the track all year long. You can't beat DSE support either. Frank said they both handle very similar. I'm just commenting on my experience with the frame and company.

Isnt the DSE about 2 grand more? (not sure) What are you doing in the rear. Check with both companies to see if you can get a package price even if you purchase the rear parts later. Second before purchasing from whoever, HAVE THEM COMMIT to a lead time for shipment. One thing Im finding out in this market is the BS out there from when its coming (Not talking about the main source frame builders but vendors who sell there product)

Between the two I would agree with Rupp, its a preference choice and the aesthetics you like.
Dave

I went with AME over DSE due to the fact that its c6 based and a little lighter then DSE, and I also went with the AME triangulated 4bar rear at the same time so I chose the keep it all AME. both are awesome products and it is a personal choice, it took 2 weeks from the time I ordered to the time I recievied them. I cant say anything bad about my experience with AME thats for sure. my 2 cents anyways

Are you talking about the AME Max g frame?

Yes he is.
Im not sure if its still for sale, but not to long ago Kenny Davis had one for sale. It was posted at a great price. Do a search.

i read up on it doesn't seem to much more expensive on their website $7500 i think? but i haven't really seen to many threads on this set up so i don't know if its any good or not.

Your missing something? Maybe you just priced out the frame. Add in the suspension components like there front clips have and the max G chassis frame all said and done is going to more like 11,000.00 or higher the last time I looked into them.

I must be because its showing quite a bit of suspension accessories.Heres the link

http://www.artmorrison.com/2006cat/17.pdf

I ended up going with UC's, LC's, ATS spindles and the Gbar from Marcus at SC&C. That's front/rear suspension upgrades that should drastically help the car all for the price that's thousands less of just one subframe. Might check into that. Just ordered so don't have feedback yet.

Wrong link, need to look at the musclecar link
http://www.artmorrison.com/2006cat/18.pdf

Ha I see now.. Yeah that's nice but looks like i am gonna have to go subframe but man if i had that kinda cash it wouldn't be a bad deal.Hmmm maybe i need to save that thing is killer!

Yeah that is the one.

Remember that has the cost of the Front subframe, rear suspension, sub frame connectors all in one, so the cost in not that much more.

Then add about 150 hours of shop time to fabricate and replace the floor of the car, fabricate body mounts etc. https://lateral-g.net/forums/show...4&postcount=16

Cost is NOT a basis for going to a full frame under a first gen F-body.

A lot of people are voting AME over DSE but no one is telling as to why they did. What are the pros and cons?

Those are 2 of the very best. Nothng else comes close under the 8k range. Nothing.

I am thinking art morrison

I chose the AME because for me it was more cost effective. I liked that I could use the stock F body LSx oil pan, stock LSx F body accessories and C5 brake calipers, abuttments and rotors. Those items added up to considerable savings for me.

The folks at Art Morrison are also great to deal with. But then again I have dealt with the folks at DSE and they were also great to deal with.

Don

you said c5 but can you use c6 as well?

yes ALL the c5 and c6 brakes bolt up the same way. be it plain 13"c5 stocks or 14"c6 zo6, hell i even believe the new zr1s brakes are the same too.

http://www.jakesrodshop.com/products.html ?

If you are on a budget you can get your stock subframe to handle very nice with the right parts. Really no reason to spend all that coin unless you are going to race the car everyday. We do after market sub-frames and frames all the time when guys dont care about the money but we do just as many stock subs modified on $150K cars all day. just depends on what your looking for and if its just for looks you already made your mind up.

Chris,
Can the same statement be made about the second gen stock sub frames being made to handle really well too? My car will most likely never see the track more than once or twice. But I will drive the car hard at times so I want good handling and braking. What would you suggest for improvements on a stock frame? And what about the rear?
Sorry to hi jack the thread.
Eric

the second gen stock subframe is leaps above the first gen...
it takes very little to make a 2nd gen handle great!
check out mary pozzi's car it got a stock subframe and leafsprings in the back and constantly runs faster or the same times as cars with aftermarket subframes, 4/3 link suspensions...

Like asking: ...should I buy a Ferrari or Porsche.......:D

I think when you get into high dollar parts like these - you can't go wrong either way. I have a Jim Meyer Chassis under my Nomad - the frame rails where formed by.... Art Morrison. However, there IS a difference with these frames. Mine is all heim joints - so no rubber bushings... to do this over again I'd certainly use the AME frame. I'm building a 55 now (for a buddy) with AME chassis... it's a nice piece -- as is my JMR piece.

I say this - because you're asking for an opinion on which to buy - without a discussion about any (if any) differences that ALL the choices offer.

Some A arm manufactures use Del A Lum bushings - some use Urethane - tubular A arms versus - Corvette castings...

If I was making this choice I'd be on the phone with both of them with a list of questions like - what is the max wheel/tire size - what offsets - what bolt pattern - turning radius - what are your brake choices/sizes - roll bar choices - brake lines optional or std - type of steering (rack or?) - turning ratio options - what motor / header are you going to use - do these have any interference issues that are known to the mfg.... etc.

Just my 2 cents worth - which isn't worth a nickel

My big reason for voting for the AME vs DSE is that the AME uses off the shelf C6 parts. A run to any Chevy dealer in the US will net you the majority of the components to rebuild the front suspension.

Having that piece of mind is worth a lot to me.

True, but not entirely...

Her car is nearly as fast or faster... with her driving.. lol

For example, my car beats her car if she is driving both. Driver skill plays a big part in all of this.

That said, a stock subframe can be made to be very good, but it does have limitations.

Just another thought on the choices available. I just went through this whole "frame choice" issue on my 37 Ford. There's about a dozen mfg's of frames for the 35 to 40 Ford (they use the same chassis). When you combine the frame mfg's AND INCLUDE all the different options - your choices are almost endless - and there's no end to the various combinations you can come up with. Just for giggles - here's the mfgs I spoke and emailed multiple times:

Pete and Jakes
TCI
Superior Glass Works
The Roadster Shop
Art Morrison
Progressive
Kugel
Roy Brizio

My point of all this -- is that in the end - after asking a zillion questions I applied the responses to what I was looking for. I was certain when I started out - that I wanted a triangulated 4 bar rear... I ended up with inboard mounted leaf springs. The reason - I want to just road trip this build... it has a HUGE trunk... the coil overs are great up front where the weight doesn't change - but in the back - the coil overs have a limited amount of travel... I want to be able to load up a toolbox - suitcases - wife (in front with me) - a full load of fuel - AND still have a good stance and nice ride. I HATE air bags - too many parts and pieces - they leak down - been there done that.... the leaf springs offered what I needed - over what I really wanted (in my mind). Mounting them inboard lowered the rear two more inches - C notching the frame rails made clearance - mounting them inboard made more tire width available - a speedway engineering sway bar was clean and tucked up out of the way... and I have clearance for exhaust and gas tank... The leaf spring rear would have been the very last thing I'd have ever considered ---- UNTIL I DISCUSSED all the pluses and minuses of every system. Since I'm not auto-crossing this car - a panhard bar etc really isn't important. I wanted a nice stable ride - spelled consistent - empty or loaded to the max... so I listened and settled on what would work for the application. I really didn't care about 'bragging rights' -- i.e., having the biggest, baddest, newest, most expensive, available.

Okay - I'm done... Whew!

Just trying to give you some food for thought....

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO TRUE!!

Endless hours of bench racing would never settle the question... and either choice is a good one!

http://www.detroitspeed.com/news_eve...droforming.htm

I like the idea that the frame is made the same way it is for a C6 Corvette. I like cutting edge stuff.

After driving my Blue 69 with the DSE sub and 4 Link, I would never buy or own another one without their stuff. We can all argue about parts, and their are alot of nice parts available, I like the fact that DSE is constantly engineering new stuff for different makes and showing up at multiple events to test those parts. Also you can go to different locations across the country jump in the seat and go for a ride.

Its awesome that all these manufactureres are designing stuff for us. Could you imagine if you loved Yugo's, try and upgrade that and get your money out of it! LOL.

Not trying to piss anybody off here, but Stuart and I have actually logged a bunch of miles on our cars. There is alot of hear say going on here. I don't doubt that the Morrison frame is great, just don't see any posts from folks with real world experience behind the steering wheel. I would really like to see a shoot out between the two. DSE frame/Quadralink vs AME C6 frame/4/3 link There is no reason that can't be done at this point. Enough of this they are both great choices stuff.:D

I would like to see that too, I would be willing to to offer my AME C6 tri 4 bar set up for someone to compare it with the DSE stuff. will be on the road in a month or so.