8.1 Chevy Vortec Swap....
 

Okay...I know this is not the most popular, but it is proposing a very interesting angle to my next project.

I picked up a 2007 8.1 off ebay that will be here soon. It is sans accessoreis, harness, and computer. I am told these will run off the LS1 harness (with some mods) and LS1 computer.

Plan is to bolt it to the Richmond Six already in the project 69 Vette that I'll be building.

It has eight coils, eight injectors, front mounted drive by wire throttle body...and roller cam.

They turn 375 hp and 500 ft lbs stock and are good for a little more with a cam, tuning, headers...etc. Raylar makes aluminun heads...cams, etc. and can get an easy 700 out of them.

I think my biggest issue will be fitting the throttle body side under the hood - the intake is 10.5 inch tall on a tall deck (L88 hood being used). Direct fit headers will be an issue (will be running hooker side pipes).

They look like this, and to the casual observer will appear to be an LSx on steeroids!

http://www.streetrodperformance.com/...ngine4sale.jpg

From a budget side, I picked mine up with 40k miles for 1K plus shipping. considering all else is LSx off the shelf stuff - it shouldn't take much to get it running.

Anybody else crazy enough to fool with one of these?

I worked at a GM dealer for a bit and got to drive a few trucks with that motor. There was a tech there that had stuffed one in a '70 Monte Carlo and he took me for a ride. Both the trucks I drove and the Monte had stock engines with auto transmissions.
All I can say is that Monte HAULED A**!!! The Monte was going to be set up for drag racing but still had stock suspension when I rode in it. It was actually kind of scary how poorly that car handled that motor.

The engine itself is a good unit. GM quit making it only because the 6.0 in the trucks was doing better in sales. The 8.1 got such poor MPG and the gas prices were going through the roof, it didn't help either. (the Monte had a stock truck computer and modified harness, not sure about the throttle)

That engine in a 69 vette would be pretty cool. The aluminum heads would help alot if you can get them. That is a huge, heavy motor but strong and reliable.
I can't tell you anything about the harness and computer running right from an LS1. I would try and get a comp from a truck and tweak it instead. They are cheap in the wrecking yards and can be programmed many different ways.
Good luck with the hood clearance.
Post some pics when you get it installed.:thumbsup:

That's always great to hear the "been there...done that - or rode in that...." story.

I have confirmation the engine is in route from the seller to me and should be here Friday.

I have been talking to Jared at www.currentperformance.com about wiring...etc.

He also confirmed the 8.1 runs on the same system as the LS, but doesn't know the wire harness lengths - he suggested I get a donor harness, measure things out - then send to him for tweaking.

He can also make sure we match the correct dbw pedal..etc.

I need to talk to Richmond about what sensor will go in the trans for speed readings that the LS will read, so I can make sure I get the cruise control functioning through the LS system and dbw too.

The car is now in a safe place in Cali - and the shipper will pick it up on a couple of weeks or so and it will be headed my way.

Between now and then I need to get a lift in stalled in the shop to make it easy for me by myself to pull the body on/off the frame....and get this puppy hooked up.

Here is a pic from the seller of the engine crated and ready to roll.

Very cool. Please start a build thread and post lost of pics. I like to see this one go together.:thumbsup:

:unibrow: so you think........................ :lol:

Jody

:lateral: :cheers:

I just saw a post on Chevelles.com about the 8.1. Look up raylarengine.com and check out what they have. Heads, intakes, cams...they say they can push it over 600 hp with bolt ons. They even have a Gen VII 600 cid block. 765 hp and hp and 825 tq with 700 rpm idle on 89 octane gas. That one is a turn key marine engine but with a few mods who knows? Big fun huh?
Good luck!

I spoke to Raylar the other day. They KNOW this motor inside and out - in fact, the first 8.1 they messed with was dunked in a C5 convertible after major mods to the intake and pan to fit between the hood and ground.

Do you have a linky to that other discussion with the Chevelle guys?

I got the motor yesterday. It is now on the engine stand - I've been eyeballing it. Looks like the oil pan HAS to be chopped down - and no doubt the intake where the throttle body goes in will need some mods.

I don't know how to link it. I am a TOTAL computer idiot. Just go to chevelles.com and look in the engine forum for a thread "8.1 heads" .
That site is set up pretty much like this one. You will have to join to post questions.
So far everyone over there has been really nice, in spite if the fact that I don't own a Chevelle. I had my engine build plan posted there. In fact the guy who is supplying the rotating assembly is on that site (Mike Lewis Racing Engines). He has done motors for guys on this site as well. It was another member here (gmorris) that referred me to the Chevelle site and Mike.
Good luck with it and be sure to keep it all posted. :thumbsup:

thats it ????
no updates???
arrgggg!!!

Lots more to come...

The engine came in on Friday - I got it out of the crate and on teh stand. The seller did a first rate job of crating it up - very happy with that.

The car isn't here yet - so it will be a bit before I know exactly where to cut/trim...etc.

Some things I see right away.

#1 - pan is way too deep - it falls 3" below the teeth on the flywheel. It is aluminum and shouldn't be a problem having it shortened - I was told they are not compatible with standard big block pans

#2 - It has a cool cam sensor in the front cover, and the crank sensor is on the back of the block on the bellhousing behind the driver head shooting down to the back of the crank.

#3 - The cross over tube on the heads take the place of the old heads and intake mounted thermostat housing

The knock sensors mount low on the block just like the early efi small blocks.

The engine looks really cool in person - and HUGE.

Won't have a whole lot new for at lease a couple of more weeks

I need to get some pics posted of it on the stand from different angles.

By the way - I searched the Chevelle forums and found a backtrack to the NastyZ28 forums...

There appears to be some interest in these things - but most guys bail when it comes to needing to get the DBW working...which is no big deal at all.

This post here was very encouraging:

I think 590hp and 545 ft lbs might get your Camaro rolling down the road. You should be able to at least hit the speed limit on the freeway.:rofl:

Did Raylar have anything for you? I was hoping they would get you all taken care of. It looked like one stop shopping for the 8.1 when I looked at the web site. Get them pics posted!!!!!:D
That's good you found more info on Nastyz28. I can't imagine having that much weight under the hood. Are you going to use aluminum heads? Do you know exactly how much it does weigh? I thought it might show on the shipping info, I am just curious.

Actually, this will be in a 69 Corvette mated to a Richmond six. Yes...more than enough power to push it.

Raylar has been great to speak with about this project. My initial plan is to slip it in as is, get it all running - then hop up the power later. However, I need to open it up and look inside to make sure I didn't get burned on the purchase before I blindly trust it to running.

Weight???? Didn't anybody ever tell you it is rude to ask about somebody's weight? :lol: :lol: :lol:

The shipping lable (with about a 60 lb crate attached) came in at 805 lbs! The only thing I can say in defense to that is my last 69 Vette had a 454 in it and couldn't have been far off with the exception it had aluminum heads. That was also weighed with the massive exhaust manifolds still bolted in place.

While an LS motor is a feather compared to this...getting an LS to pump out nearly 500 ft lbs STOCK...is impossible, so that more than makes up for the weight....then there is the whole handling issue... At least the Corvette sits the motor way back in the frame to push more of this to center than a F body or other type of GM car. My old 69 with the big block handled as good as I could ever want it to for the driving and use that I pushed it through, so I suspect this will be no different. Then again, I'm the same guy that put a V8 in a Fiero...and was so tickled with the kick...that the weight was never an issue for my style.

Sorry about that. I knew from the original post it was for a vette. I just spaced it when I wrote my last post.

805!!! Man, that's fat! :D Good thing it's going in a plastic car huh?
Ok, I'm just giving you a hard time. I am a big vette fan in reality.
I didn't even bother to think about what my motor will weigh in at because of all the torque but now I'mcurious what an aluminum headed BBC does wiegh.
Taking it apart is a good idea. I hope it all checks out ok.

You're right about any stock LS turning out 500 lb ft. It will never happen (LS9 not included, but it's got a huffer on it)

Once you get it going and bump the power up the ol' vette is going to flat out haul the mail. That would be a blast with the Richmond on the twisty roads around here.
You had a V8 Fiero? That's too funny. I used to work for a guy who built them on the side. I got to drive a few and they were a hoot! He also did a Porsche 911 type (not sure exactly what model) with a sbc in it. It still used the factory transaxle with an adaptor but it had a real problem staying together because of the torque of the small block. A couple others were Fiero chassis and windshields with Ferrari and Lambo body kits. Boy, I sure miss the 90's.:rofl:
Do you have any pics of the vette you can post?

I don't have the car yet - it is still in Cali. When it gets here I'll be posting them.

However, when all is said and done...it will be a kissing cousin of my old 69 Vette - just can't imagine them looking any other way.

http://mcspeed.homestead.com/files/sharkfest.jpg

Is that your old car? That is very nice! It looks like Jack Roushs' brother shaking your hand. :yes: Or at least some one who stole his hat.
You have got to get a build thread going when you get the car home. Lots of pics too. This will be a good one to watch come together.
When do you expect to have it? Is there anything being done to it where it is now?:cheers:

That is Mike Yager - big Vette guy. That hat is like his trademark. That is my old 69 - had a blast buidling and playing with it - then sold it prior to relocating from FL to Illinois...and have missed it everyday - then this other opporutnity came up.

Right now the car is at Jody's in Cali waiting in his garage for the shipper to pick it up. I am in the process of finishing my detached garage and should have it all done and ready by the time the car gets here. Last part is to get some concrete in and a lift.

I'll keep the updates coming!

here is the beast on the engine stand.

That should be a fun tire roaster. I have an '04 Suburban 2500 with the 8100 in it and 4.10's and a Hypertch programmer set to 87 octane (plus I upsized the tires to 265/75-16's). It weighs a little over 7,000 lbs., and for a big old thing, it sure can get out of it's own way. I've never run it at the track, but it feels like it might crack into the 15 second zone. And you're vette would be at least 3500 lbs less, so even in stock trim, it should at least be in the mid-low 13's. Another note, my Suburban doesn't need to rev past 4800 rpms either, so you won't need much gear. Plus, it can lug pretty low too. I can get about 13.5-14 mpg out on the highway, but my rpms are killing me, 2500 rpms at 65mph (plus it's a heavy brick). You shouldn't have any problem getting over 20mpg in the Vette with a 6 spd.

Good luck.

What's your solution for the oil pan? Is there an aftermarket one or will you have to mod the factory unit?
Is there any pics of the car you can post?
Looking forward to pics and video if you can with the car going down the track.:D

I am told the oil pan rails are wider on this than a traditional BB, so an aftermarket pan won't work. I assume (I know that can get me in trouble) that I can have this pan cut down and welded like I did the LS pan in my 69 Camaro. If so...getting it to fit shouldn't be an issue.

Right now the biggest issue I see is clearing the dbw throttle body under the hood (making a cold air connection, etc) and the front accessory drive.

I am currently thinking about making sure I have the highest possible rear gear, then keep this as a low RPM growler...that will still be quick, but just sip the gas on the highway.

I don't want to be a self inflicted victim of soon to be again ultra high fuel prices by putting together a monster that can't pass a gas station.

You have an 8.1 that you are going to modify. I'm thinking it doesn't matter what gears you use, there will be frequent visits to the gas station in your future.:D
I get what you are saying about the gears, it will help alot with the MPG if you gear it right.
Be carefull with the oil pan mods, if you reduce capacity too much that oil pump will suck the pan dry quickly. The same thing can happen if the pick up point isn't right too.

And....thanks to Jody...here are pics of the shell as it is being packed and loaded and headed East.

http://mcspeed.homestead.com/Killer-II.html

Very cool. Thanks for posting the pics. I guess I missed the part about it being a convertable. I think that has to be my favorite style of 'vette. I'm looking forward to watching the build.

OKay...here we are lifting the body back off the frame

http://mcspeed.homestead.com/k2bodylift.jpg

Frameless in the midwest....

http://mcspeed.homestead.com/k2bodylift1.jpg

rolling chassis

http://mcspeed.homestead.com/k2frame.jpg

Six speed trans:

http://mcspeed.homestead.com/k2richmond.jpg

8.1 dunked in testing fitting it all including the stock manifolds for giggles and grins

http://mcspeed.homestead.com/k281frame2.jpg

and...it is in

http://mcspeed.homestead.com/k2811.jpg

Rut row...... the good news is it does clear the hood - with a whisker to spare...bad news is, I don't yet know how I'll connect this to an air filter - to the drawing board.

http://mcspeed.homestead.com/k2813.jpg

The intake looks like a challenge for sure. Good luck with that, time to start the fab. Not any thing you'll find at Summit:D
That engine does fit better than I thought it would. It's going to be a blast when it's on the road!
Is that the factory chassis with some mods or? I don't know enough about the 'vettes to know.
Keep at it, you're off to a great start!

try contacting http://wilsonmanifolds.com/ i think if you got a 90degree elbow you might have a good shot at being done..

http://www.wilsonmanifolds.com/shop/..._19_elbows.jpg

Any updates on the project?

I'm working on the body just a little right now. Because the left rear fender was removed the body was very weak and needed to be put back. The flare kit with the car was all wrong and I'm having to do mods to make that work. I have the left side on now and will launch the right next week - my d/a and grinder died...so I'm haulted right now.

On the engine - I have the wire harness coming and am working on getting the accessory drive and exhaust. I just got the flywheel last week and am hunding for a clutch to mate up.

I'll update with pics and info soon.

Thanks for the tip on the intake mods to - I'll look into those.

Will a clutch from a truck fit? I don't remember what trans you are using. I seem to recall those trucks (8.1 one tons) were offered with a manual trans. You should be able to get a new clutch from any local GM parts dept. Unless it won't fit inside the bellhousing you are using. What set up are going to use for the trans and bellhousing?

You are correct, the trucks came with a manual and had either a 5 speed or ZF6 - I have the flywheel (new) in hand now and will be talking to Centerforce more next week.

Once I have a clutch, I should be able to hook all the other stock style stuff to the Richmond Six that I have for the car.

The thing is, most ZF trans I have seen have the reverse diaphram which makes me think that (with a modified clutch disc for the ROD 6) won't work with the 69 Vette linkage (push vs. pull).

We'll see.

If the linkage won't work, there is always the hydraulic option. That would take care of all kinds of issues that the mechanical linkage may cause.

Making progress now - parts coming in...etc.

Found some cool info from a truck site that did a 8.1 swap:

Unless you work at the Tonawanda, New York, assembly plant, this is probably the first time you've ever seen the new Vortec 8.1L (that's 496 very nasty cubic inches) big-block on an engine hoist. This one came to us directly from Chevrolet, but it's rumored a GEN VI crate engine from GM Performance Parts is in the works. In the factory HD truck trim these mills produce 340 hp and 455 lb-ft, but in our nonemissions marine trim (no smog pump, no EGR, a set of headers, and a trick new EFI controller) it puts out an estimated 420 hp and 505 lb-ft of torque.

And...on the flywheel/trans:

More good news. The 8.1L is internally balanced and will accept the old 14-inch, 168-tooth, neutral balance flexplate from a 396 or 427. Just don't try to run an externally balanced (weighted) flexplate from a 454 as it will damage the 8.1L's reciprocating assembly.

And...on fitting it in an older or even an LS application:


It gets even better. Even though GM has adopted a new engine-mount location on the new Silverado chassis, the old GM engine-mount pad is still cast into the 8.1L blocks. Want to bolt an 8.1L in where a 454 came out? No problem

Source: http://www.4wheeloffroad.com/brandpa...t_1/index.html

Thats; great news about the mounting and flywheel options. It should make the transplant easier. Any updated pics?

Okay boys...here we go again.

First of all, I had to modify the front X member to clear the longer larger front pulley/balancer. This is a common issue if running a long leg water pump on a Vette - it is easily accomplished with a sledge hammer, but I wanted to play around and do some cutting and welding. The frame was already powder coated...so after the mods were complete I had the local paint store match the color - then I base/clear shot it back in. The match is perfect.

http://mcspeed.homestead.com/100_6259.jpg

http://mcspeed.homestead.com/100_6266.jpg

http://mcspeed.homestead.com/100_6284.jpg

http://mcspeed.homestead.com/100_6321.jpg

Next...I went ahead and modified the trans x member so we could take a section out. There is no way to get the six speed out of the car without pulling the motor unless the X member is modified. This can be done with the body on - we did Killer with the body on. However, with it off it is 1000 times easier. Basically, I marked the line - cut. I then made up FOUR plates and mated two of them at a time - drilled them through in the press. I then took the width of them and cut the frame off on each side by that width. I then slid the piece in place with the plates bolted...and welded it home.

http://mcspeed.homestead.com/100_6290.jpg

http://mcspeed.homestead.com/100_6291.jpg

http://mcspeed.homestead.com/100_6292.jpg

http://mcspeed.homestead.com/100_6320.jpg

Now for the good stuff. We have to have a constant 55 PSI or so of pressure to run the engine just like and LS1/2/3/6/7. I picked up a killer TRE 343 in-tank pump which is a 255 gal per hour. Mouting a wire through bushing through the top of the tank, and welding a bracket to the stock pickup - I was able to get the electric pump in the tank and plumbed in place. We added a vent line too that will go to an emission can so we can run a sealed gas cap and not have fumes in the garage.

We will have a 99-09 Corvette fuel filter/regulator mounted by the tank and then a stock line all the way to the engine.

http://mcspeed.homestead.com/100_6295.jpg

http://mcspeed.homestead.com/100_6295.jpg

http://mcspeed.homestead.com/100_6306.jpg

http://mcspeed.homestead.com/100_6314.jpg

http://mcspeed.homestead.com/100_6309.jpg

http://mcspeed.homestead.com/100_6318_rot_90.jpg

The accessories came yesterday from a bone yard in NY. We had to go with the stuff from a 4500 / medium duty truck to get the a/c up high.

I put the motor back in the frame tonight and mounted it all on - it fits and looks good. A/C will be close to the hood - but close is okay.

Waiting on the oil pan, headers, and a few other small parts. Will run the rest of the fuel line when I have the other stuff on, then will go through the Painless LS harness to get it all in the right spot...then throw some fire in the hole and see if she will kick off.

I need to clean up the accessory parts a bit, and wait for the correct lower pulley before I get any more pics.

The crossmember mods look great (both x members). That's a pretty cool trick to fit the pulley up front. Thanks for the updates. I'm looking forward to seeing this one done and on the road.:thumbsup: