Please help... Engine decision?
 

I am building a cruiser 70' Chevelle, need help getting some direction on what to start looking for as a power plant for my car. One thing I am pretty sure I want to see under the hood is a big block but nothing is set in stone and looking for help setting a direction.

How do people go about figuring out what to use and how to set there buying budgets for it?

Is there a popular engine combo I should be really taking a look at?

And I know it all comes down to money....I don't even know yet where I need to be on this and that is why I am lost. I would be OK with spending money but of course i just want the most for my money.

Thanks in advanced guys!!

Are you building the motor yourself? You lookin for a crate motor with a warranty?

I'd say a 496 is a nice budget friendly big block that can easily put out a streetable 600-650hp on pump gas.

For some extra thunder (and $) just go for a 540 or 572 and really make that thing scoot.

And budgets are key as you probably know, but you probably also know they are usually blown up about half way thru the build! :lol:

Do you have a power goal in mind?

You looking for a carbed or EFI motor? All iron or aluminum top end? Pretty set on a BBC? Any chance you would want a supercharger in the future? Not interested in a 500ish hp LS motor? Wanting to keep it more origional looking?

These questions/answers will help narrow it down.

I have built a few small blocks back in my younger days but nothing to talk about than normal stocker set ups. Never even found out what hp we kicked out from them. All when I was around 16-19yo and little budgets. I will either find someone to build this motor or buy a crate set up.

I would like a healthy 500-600+ area (not even sure what would get me there), maybe a power plant I can start off with and add to later if I want more and have the money to support it. Yes budgets are key to everything, you can set it and try to stick to it and most of the time you will go over it but when you don't set it you end up in trouble and lots of money out for a guy like me that has no idea what I want and doesn't know alot.

They guys that have many engines under there belt are the ones that build off no budget because they know where to not waste there money:lol:

I have been thinking of the GM 502ci ? Maybe start carb and later I can add to it?

I would only do a 502 is you can find a good deal on one. You can basically get the same thing only cheaper with better internals if you take a good 454 block and add a forged 496 stroker rotating assembly.

600hp is no prob for this size and would be a very nice torque monster as well.

Carb/EFI -
Not sure what I should do yet, all my back ground was SBC with carbs but all my more recent toys are EFI but Diesel.

Iron/Aluminum-
Have no idea?

SBC/BBC-
It's just me and want to set my goal for a BBC. I feel if I do a SBC I will always want to re-do it and drop a BBC in the car. I have just always wanted a BBC.

Chance of a supercharger in the future?-
Anything is possible. But not a idea as of right now. I am starting to see that a charger is what more people are doing than I thought at first.

Not interested in a 500ish hp LS motor?-
A LS motor could be if that's what I should really be looking at.

Wanting to keep it more original looking?-
I am looking to build a car that has many original looking areas with new school up grades that make you look twice (I guess that is called Pro-Turing look now). so I don't need the engine to look like it 100% belongs as it did off the show room floor.



awr68, I know all my answers are not perfect for suggestions but the truth of why I need help:_paranoid

So the 502's are a pricy GM built crate motor? I can do better with my money?

I think the 502s are pricey for what you get yes, unless you can score a used one or a good deal on a new one with warranty. And if you have experience building basic small blocks yourself, you could easily build a 496 if you find a good 454 4 bolt block core. I can't do it, but sounds like you can :lol:

I like the idea of a simple carbed big block and sometimes wish I had just done a simple carbed 540 vs the EFI procharged 406 small block I have now.

So a procharged efi engine has alot of misc set up to get her dialed in, that is what I am not looking for right now. Later after I know more maybe.

Why you are liking the 540 better? What's the pros?

Well I love the setup, but it is more costly and has a lot more working parts (and therefore things can go wrong :lol:).

I orig planned a carbed 540 but when this turnkey motor came up for sale during the start of my build at a very good price (built by a reputable enthusiast) I jumped on it. It's just been an interesting road getting it dialed in.

I would have been happy with either motor I am quite sure. :)

For simplicity, I would go with a simple carbed big block as you are talking about.

I'm a big block guy myself. I always wanted a 69 Camaro and big block growing up. All my cars had small blocks. I considered an LS7 but the old school convinced me otherwise. That's only a decision you can make. The LS motors are clearly the cheapest way to make good reliable power. EVERYBODY is doing it for a good reason. I'm just not everybody. Used big blocks go pretty damn cheap. You may want to consider buying one from a stalled project at a discount. Building a big block from scratch isn't cheap. Then I'd throw an EZ EFI on it for a mix of old school and new. A 489,496,502,509 will all make 550-600 ft lbs easily with a wimpy cam and keep you in that sweet spot for the EZ EFI. If you want to push the envelope and I wish I would've a little more. You can go mechanical cam and a little higher compression and make 650-700hp with a wilder combo. You just need to keep in mind that takes you into a more expenisive injection system and rules out power brakes completely. You will need to be super careful even with a hydaulic cam for power brakes.

dare to be different. All aluminum 540 cid crate Hemi :cheers: :woot:

Nick,

Todd was a huge help in my big block design. As was a guy named Mike Lewis. He is also in Nor Cal. Look up Lewis Racing Engines. Between Mike and Todd I landed on a killer 489 build that should hit well over 600hp and run on pump gas without any troubles. Mike is a very good builder, can work up a good plan with your budget and goals in mind and has GREAT customer service too. He builds big blocks for a living and knows what he is doing. There are several guys on the Teamchevele.com forum running his engines. You can contact him at [email protected] or on the phone at 707-984-6103. He goes by the screen name "wolfplace" on Team Chevelle.com
Good luck with your project. Please let us know what you decide on.:cheers:

I second the Mike Lewis recommendation, great guy to work with.

Jody

I apologize Jody. You were the first to send me searching for Mike and I neglegted to mention that. Mike is a really good guy to work with.
:cheers:

no reason to apologize, you were correct, Mike is one of the good guys............. :)

Jody

Yep, Jody sent me to Mike for my LT1 build and I can't thank him enough! Mike was a real pleasure to work with!! :thumbsup:

Ok so now we are talking about a carbed 540 BBC range. For something good and streetable but power on tap, what might be looking at spending for a set up from oil pan up before all the other needed upgrades to go with a swap like this. Just he complete motor, also are we talking getting a block and building it or just getting a crate motor from gm. What's the pros vs cons I should conseder?

By the way you guys are a great help, saving money in the end will be doing it once and not finding out I should have purchased something better for my personal use of what I want out of the motor.

Also I will hheck this Mike guy out. I want to get a better direction before I start calling people so I have more feed back for them to help me.

A 540 will take you into aftermarket block territory. There was a recent article in one of the magazines on a 502 build up. Just a set of Dart Pro 1 heads like I run, around 10-1 compression, and not an overly radical cam. It made like 670hp and around 640 ftlbs. I looked for the article and couldn't find it. I'm sure Mike will point you in the right direction.

If you call Mike and tell him what you want out of the car and how you intend to use it he can help you design what is best for you. There are a million different ways to build an engine and just as many opinions about what to use. I would be happy to give you mine if you want it. But I really think that someone with the experience of a pro builder like Mike will be the best help you can get. Just tell him how you would like to use the car and what your budget is and go from there. :cheers:

Well, I don't know if you are talking about a 540, but that's what I was talking about. :lol:

Here is a good start.

http://www.ultrastreet.net/engines/540_ultrastreet.asp

Crate motor from builder comes with warranty. (pro)

You build it yourself you save money (pro) but no warranty (con).

You could also do a short block 502 or a long block and finish it yourself since you have skills and tools it sounds like.

http://sdparts.com/catalog/crate-eng...p-zz502-engine

There was an article probably 10+ years ago where the late John Lingenfelter put ported oval port heads on a stock 502 with a decent size cam and made 660-670 hp, so it is pretty easily done and remains very street friendly.

Again, you could duplicate very easily with a 496 as well. Lotsa options here!

EDIT: here is the simple Lingenfelter 502 article.... wow, from 1993!

http://www.derekspratt.com/PDFs/Auto...ary%201993.pdf

Ok so looks like I have to take momma a letter for my motor that says about 8k-10k for between a 502 or 540 to be making between 550-high600 hp range and streetable. Bang for the buck he 502 is better if I am reading what you guys are saying and then later I can add ram injection if I want more?

That's a good read but it can be done with a dual plane intake and 4150 carb nowadays with more power. The key is to design the engine for your intended application.

I really don't see the need to go with so much displacement that you have to use an aftermarket block. Why do that and have the extra expense when the goal is 550-600 hp in a streetable package? A 489-496 CID based on a production 454 block with good internals (same quality as inside a 502 or 540) will cover all of your needs and still offer room for more power down the road. (try getting all of that torque to stick to the road, not easy. More power will just be wasted)
If you use 489 inches as a starting point, add a good hyd roller cam, decent heads, good induction and exhaust and keep the comp ratio at a reasonable level you will have a 600+hp motor that runs on pump gas and will last you forever. More cubic inches is great at the show when the other guy asks but it will serve no purpose in THIS application. All it will do is make the overall cost of the build higher. Unless someone has a line on cheap 502/540 size blocks?
Of course, I could have my head way up my a** here. I still say go talk to Mike and tell him your goals.
Just my .02 :cheers:

All great info guys that is starting to make alot of sence. Keep it up and I am a sponge right now taking it all in!!!

Thanks

keep I all coming.

Word. :lateral:

Was your car in one of the building this past good guys right by the glass doors?

affirmative. did you and I chat?

So I take it you where the guy standing by it talking to people. Sat. I was the guy standing there for about 10 mins looking at it and trying to take pics with my little guy in my arms. Very nice car man!! I love the style of the over all look with the dark grey and black wheels. Bad ass!! :hail:

That was most likely me. Jason (the builder) was there quite a bit too with all the cars there in our group. Being my first car show with a car I wasn't expecting to talk so much with spectators but I really enjoyed that aspect of it. Thanks man for the good words. Really appreciate it.

Enough about me, back to your stuff! :cheers:

Oh, and the gray 69 Chevelle right in front of mine is my buddy's who lives in Livermore also and built that sucker all himself in his driveway (no garage!).

that's my favorite part of a car show, talking with other gearheads.

Jody

yeah I just wasn't used to standing in the same place for a whole weekend at a GG show.... I didn't even get to see all the cars at the show and that was weird. But it was a great weekend and I got a little taste of everything and had a lot of great conversations and met some Lateral-G friends, and I even sounded like I knew what I was talking about most of the time I think :lol:

Jody, did you end up coming?

I know what you mean :lol:

I wish I had the chance to chat with you. Next time.

no, I was busy and couldn't make it. I would have definitely found you if I was there.

Jody

Likewise... until next time..... :thumbsup:

For what it's worth, I've heard good things about Mike at Lewis racing engines as well. Have you considered this as well? - http://sdparts.com/details/gm-perfor...parts/12498792
Has just about everything you need, but it does not include water pump, carburetor, distributor, intake manifold, or spark plug wires. That way, you can chose your own and make a bit more power. I'm sure there's a warranty behind it as well.
GOOD LUCK!!:thumbsup: :cheers:

Before you start thinking I am way off my rockers....I'm not, but my line of work brings me to ask what do all the muscle car owners fell about a diesel swap. There is the 70' that had a twin turbo duramax in it. Do most feel that is not what these cars should even think about having in it or is that something way cool? Looking for opinion. I know it's way more work than many other swaps but like I said my line of work has me thinking. I am not really sold on it just looking for opinion.

I'm pretty sold on a big block crate 502 or having a a Big block built.

well, you have kind of an inside track on it, but as far as popularity or opinions I'd guess there's way more that don't get it than do.

I've seen the car in person and it's cool, but I would think most would not approve. Then again, I usually do what I want to do, but you asked opinions............... :unibrow:

Jody