1970 Camaro RS Operation Budget LSx
 

Here's what I'm starting with. A multi colored 1970 Camaro RS that I've owned for about 10 years.

Running 12.6 @106 at Seattle with the 355" SBC, stock vortec heads and a mild roller cam. I was daily driving this thing then.
http://b6.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/0...93808446_l.jpg

Burnout in the rain. So easy a caveman can do it.
http://b4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/0...93809254_l.jpg

One legged burn-out with the 305 shortly after I got it when I was 17 in 1999.
http://b2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/0...93811242_l.jpg

The engine combo that only ever ran two city blocks...and layed rubber both ways. 454 and B&M 177 mini blower.
http://b3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/0...69669753_l.jpg

http://b3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/0...69673113_l.jpg

And my fearless shop helper, Duncan.
http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...6d6eeb7419.jpg

http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...7ddeec92ac.jpg

-Nathan

I plan on making a go at installing a 550 hp LQ4 on a fairly low budget. Just a smidge over $3,000 including the price of beer.

I have a good foundation with a suspension that was rebuilt a few years ago with Eibach front springs, a huge Hellwig front sway bay, Z28 5-leaf springs and poly bushings all around, including on the subframe to body mount.

I will be keeping my built up 700r4 and 3,000rpm stall converter. As well as the 10-bolt with an Auburn pro posi, superior axels and 3.73 gears.

After I get everything in place I will adapt to my new motor a 3" X-pipe with Spintech split case mufflers exiting out the sides that I used on a previous 355 SBC.

Here are some parts I scored for cheap, and a little bit of progess.

After discovering watery oil in my supercharged 454, I decided to rebuild it and go with a N/A setup. To help finance this project, I put the B&M mini blower up for sale. The local guy that got a hold of me said he had a complete 6.0L LQ4 GenIII motor out of a 2002 Silverado truck. Although my supercharger was worth slightly more than his motor, we decided on a straight up trade if he delivered the motor to my house.

Water in engine
http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...75c262b012.jpg

My 6.0L laying in wait
http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...7588d0066f.jpg
http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...f365470a2a.jpg



So far I have picked up a set of used ported LS6 heads that flow 320cfm @ .600 lift for $600 with valves and seals, no springs. They're in great shape, almost new. The CNC port job on them is beautiful.
http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...3786d2df7c.jpg
http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...7e077c3ab5.jpg
http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...d3892e431d.jpg

I also got a used camshaft, a G5x3 which is in the 234 @ .050 and .600 lift area on the intake and bigger on the exhaust. It's cut on a 114LSA to pick up a bit of vaccume(efi aplication cam, but you can't find many used short LSA cams for sale). I grabbed some slightly used PRC springs and comp R lifters. Cost me $500.
http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...6bf598f53c.jpg
http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...72db270b32.jpg

I got a used ignition controller for $200 as I'm planning on running a victor jr carb intake and my 850cfm holley.
http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...fa5ac0178e.jpg

Should be a fun project.

-Nathan

Drained some "Oil" out of the 454 before I pulled it.

Here's 16 quarts of water that came out the oil pan:
http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...c53404e31e.jpg

And the "oil" that came out after it...another 12 quarts of this crap came out.
http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...d28e3555b5.jpg
and yes, I paid for not pulling that grass off the headers. I dropped it into the oil pan later that night.

Here's what the lifter valley looked like before I started.
http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...7e6e6bbcf3.jpg

And here's after I drained everything out.
http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...583273c84e.jpg
I cleaned out what was left behind and oiled the block.

Pulled the passenger head off and the cylinders and pistons look perfect.
http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...a5dc253f02.jpg
http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...23ab887423.jpg

Wonder what the bottom end will look like. If it's rusty as hell my budget will be even tighter as I wont be able to sell it for much. But if it's rust free and I can clean it all up I should have plenty of cash to finish the swap after I sell it.

Neat comparison of the large oval port BBC heads and the GenIII LS6 heads.

http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...4ba058f2d6.jpg

http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...6795948e15.jpg

Interesting note, I can lift the LS6 head with one hand with ease...but the iron BBC head is tough even with two hands. And I'm a big dude.

Pop quiz, which head flows more air?

-Nathan

Pulled the driver's head off last night. Second verse same as the first. Bores look great, have to clean them a bit, oil them down and put plastic over them like I did the passenger's side. Still hoping the bottom end looks like the cylinders do.

http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...a837ba4352.jpg

http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...bcbe989155.jpg

Also, I visited my parents over the weekend and picked up the first tool I ever made. Been a decade since I made it with my dad, but he still had it in his garage. It's a transmission support tool. Bolts to the bellhousing and rests against the frame. Works perfect. So now when I pull the 454 out, I can move the car around as I please without having to worry about support the trans. This is very important to me since I have a tiny garage. I will show it in action when I pull the motor.

http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...23b539177d.jpg

Here's how she looks now. I'm going to pull the water pump and radiator before I yank out the 454 shortblock.

http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...38d818f85f.jpg

-Nathan

70 splitbumper came over today and helped me pull the 454. I got two really good action shots of him pulling the motor out...and when I plugged my SD card into the computer's reader...it died. Should have used the friggin USB cable. I went back out to the garage and snapped a couple of pictures.

Here it is on the engine stand before I oiled it down and plastic wrapped it.
http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...a4bac8c133.jpg

Believe it or not, after sitting with 16 quarts of water and 12 quarts of watery 'oil' in the crankcase...the bottom end looks like this:
http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...1f49417345.jpg
Looks brand new. Who would have thought. I will probably pull a main cap and a rod cap to see what the bearing look like, but I'm sure they will be fine as it was never run with the water in the crankcase.

Here's a closer look.
http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...615acf0dcf.jpg

The transmission support tool I showed you earlier in action.
http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...49294ae27a.jpg

And the empty engine bay:
http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...834906fd78.jpg

Near future plan is to strip out most of the crap from the engine bay, clean it up and paint it. Swap on the ported heads to the 6.0L and install the camshaft. Then it will be close to the time I will be installing the new motor.

-Nathan

If you havn't guessed, all the above posts are copy and pastes from another forum. I've been at this since late summer. A few weekends ago I organzied my garage (this was brought on by a generous gift of a new craftsman compressor by my father....funny things happen when you ask to borrow the old man's tools, sometimes he just gives me a new one so his doesn't go permanently missing). While I was at it, I wrapped the 454 in plastic and put it in the corner. No one seems to want it, even for $500!

Got the LQ4 on the engine stand and started taking it apart starting with all of the EFI intake junk, the coil packs (to be reused), and valve covers. Here's a pick I like of the rockers after I got the cover removed. Not sure how much I like the gold tint to everything.

http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs146...._2234002_n.jpg

Here is a passenger side head after removal (for sale!)
http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs126...._3236681_n.jpg
Looks like the rear cylinder wasn't too happy!

Driver's side head (for sale!)
http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs126...._8280852_n.jpg
Everything looks peachy.

Passenger's side cylinders
http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs146...._2189345_n.jpg
Oh, the carbon! This will be fun to clean.

Driver's side cylinders
http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs126...._2310695_n.jpg
Second verse, same as the first.

After much tinkering and thinkering, I came up with a plan. Carb cleaner. I rotated the engine so that one set of cylinders we perpendicular to the ground and filled each cylinder with about 2" of carb cleaner. This server two functions, one to loosen up the carbon and two, to check ring seal(already did a leak-down test and everything looked good). Came back four hours later, still had a considerable ammount of cleaner in the cylinders. Grabbed some shop towels and wiped off the cylinders. Viola...something even a wire brush couldnt remove just wiped right off! I then cleaned the gasket surface with scotchbrite, brake cleaned everything, then oiled down the cylinders and wiped them out a few times while I turned to engine over to complete the cleaning process.

Looks pretty:
http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._2904677_n.jpg

Ready for heads now...but only after I finish taking to oil pan off (throwing away for a CTS-V pan) and installing the ARP rod bolts and new camshaft. Probably throw on a new ported oil pump while I'm at it.

Here's the mess as it stands now and all of the brave blue shop towels that gave their lives so that this LQ4 may live.
http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs146....4_608975_n.jpg

-Nathan

Nice project looks like you know what you want. I do have a question why ls6 heads and not the l92?

Nice cleanup work. It looks in good shape. You have a nice project going here.

Because the LS6 heads were there and priced right I am guessing.

I remember that 454 coming out! How are you doing Nate?

In case anyone is wondering who this "70 splitbumper" nut job is, that's me. I have another life under an assumed name here. :D

The 454 was pretty easy to get out but I was amazed at how much crap came out of it and it was still in great shape.

For those of you that don't know who 1970 camaroRS is, he is a guy that lives near me that I met over on Nastyz28 last year. We bacame friends and spent some time with tools working on his car.
He is a really good guy, lot's of fun to hang with and I am glad he has decided to start a build thread here. Now we just need to talk him into forgetting the drag strip and work on going around corners.:lol:


Thank god those pictures of me got lost off the SD card!

Hey Nate, check out the new site started by some members here. Camaros only too!:thumbsup: www.thecamarosite.com I think you will really like it!

Let me know when you need me to come back over and supervise again!:lol:
We CAN STILL BBQ in the middle of winter ya know!

So my question is what happened to the one rear cylinder that showed real nasty on the one head? Burnt valve? or??

Nice work guys... You too Eric...

:>)

I love answering this question. To be honest, I aquired the LQ4 with the intentions of running L92 heads, but one heck of a deal came across my plate and I had to take it. The heads without valve springs only ran me $650 shipped and I already have the springs, locks and retainers I was going to use on the L92s. They were also recently redone and milled for a smaller chamber, which is a must on the LQ4 with dished pistons to bring up the compression ratio.

Here are the technical reasons that made the final decision for me.

1. The valve size on this head is only 2.0" as opposed to the giant 2.16" valve on the L92 meaning I can run a much more aggressive cam before running into PtV issues.

2. The runner volume is 30cc less than L92s meaning more port velocity and more torque, especially on an engine that might not have the highest compression ratio in the world. Or cubic inches. This is a street car after all.

3. They flow within 10 cfm at peak and 5 cfm everywhere else of the stock L92s. I will be giving up a few peak HP in trade for more torque, but I will make up for it with the camshaft.

4. My LS6 heads will use my stock rockers that I already have. If I had a larger budget I'd get the needle bearings replaced, but I'm just going to have to sit on this one. They checked out good during inspection anyway. No need for offset rockers that L92s need.

5. Did I mention that they were $650 shipped?

-Nathan

Doing good, keeping busy at Boeing on that friggin 787. At least it's flying now. Glad to hear your surgery went well.
Would have been easier if someone had remembered the last two bolts that were still in the bellhousing....
Hey, with the Eibachs, poly bushings, Z28 leafs and huge by big front sway bar, that car handles surprisingly well. Just have to replace the 15" steel wheels with something more like the 275/45-17s on my 2000 SS. At least I got that boat anchor out of the nose!
Last I checked I still BBQ almost every night at 1am after work, rain, snow, hail, wind storms....whatever. Tax return and retirement account loan checks are in the mail....soon to be followed by parts! Stay tuned.

Of course I could tidy up the engine bay or swap out my power steering box for the manual box I have sitting around to keep me busy until then. Then there's that F250 I need to get running again.....

-Nathan

yep, great project and very similar to what I'm going to do. Please keep us updated, and check out the Camaro site linked above.

Jody

Looking closely at it I appears to be a burnt valve, but it held pressure before tear down and the piston and cylinder wall look no different than any other.

http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs126...._3236681_n.jpg

Head gasket also looked good. I'm sure after I get the engine put back together and I do a compression test everything will be ok.

-Nathan

Joined and posted. I remember you front NastyZ28.

-Nathan

Christmas in January
 

This is what I found when I woke up this morning:
http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._6371564_n.jpg

The parts fairy had visited me in the night!
http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._7565190_n.jpg

My ham of a fist agrees, this is good.
http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs168....9_186528_n.jpg

Like the kids from a Christmas Story, I tear into the boxes:
http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._1648836_n.jpg

Love it, big smile.
http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs188...._7641047_n.jpg

What is it that put a big goofy smile on my face?
http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._5588916_n.jpg

THIS
http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs188...._5158752_n.jpg
SLP, ARP, Fel-Pro, Edelbrock, Trick-flow, Hughes, Summit. The gangs all here.

Oh and a bonus from the fine folks at the Summit Racing warehouse.
http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs168....4_825514_n.jpg

SWEET!
http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._2773493_n.jpg

ARP rod, intake, balancer bolts and head studs
http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs168...._1337036_n.jpg

MSD wires
http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._4629220_n.jpg

Edelbrock mount adaptors
http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._6740006_n.jpg
Surprisingly poor quality in the finish. Lots of burs and sharp edges. I will have to clean them up before I install them.

See.
http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._2999452_n.jpg

Hughes LS1 flexplate for TH350/400, 700r4 transmissions.
http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._5643927_n.jpg

Billet Double roller timing gears and chain
http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._1507281_n.jpg

SLP ported oil pump. Impulse buy, could have just gotten a cheap stocker and ported it myself.
http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs168...._7838726_n.jpg

Interesting note on the SLP oil pump, it comes with another pressure relief spring to up the oil pressure if needed and a new cap and o-rings too.
http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs188...._4480265_n.jpg

K&N Extreme Flow filter...
http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._1308009_n.jpg

Something I should have known better, the K&N comes with the required carb stud and hardware...bought some cheapo Summit stuff too. Oh well.
http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs188...._4790417_n.jpg

Houston, we have a problem.
 

On top, the bolt supplied by Edelbrock for the intake. Below, the bolt recommended by summit, ARP 430-2001. Picked them to bling up the intake a bit....they are all WAY too long. What am I supposed to do with them? Looks like Summit gets a call tomorrow.

http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs188....7_869953_n.jpg

Here it is, plane as day on the Summit website, they are recommending you use bolts that won't work...
http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs168...._3073728_n.jpg

Did some digging, and low and behold, I need 6mm x 1.0, 50mm long bolts instead of 113mm long. Here are some in 12-point. Someone please double check and tell me if this is the part I really needed in the first place.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ARP-770-1007/

Also found this AWESOME source of information on misc bolts and parts for GENIII engines.
http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/view.php?id=837831&da=y

Very cool.
Looks like Christmas morning with that smile on your face.:thumbsup:

That is a great way to start any day! (Finding parts at the door)

New parts sweet!

Wheels!
 

More goodies. A set of used American Racing Torque Thrusts 17 x 9, painted silver gray metalic. Backspacing for 4th gen Camaros. Almost brand new 275/40R17 Khumos up front and 275/40R17 MT ET Drag Radials in the back. Will need to use spacers, but I got such a killer deal that $250 for spacers still makes this super cheep. Front tires are making their way to my 2000 SS though, and if this doesn't work out for my 1970, the whole setup, minus the Drag Radials, will make it onto my '70 and I will go with plan B for the '70. Cragar Soft 8 17" x 8" black steel wheels. Remember, this is Operation Budget LSx.

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._5402205_n.jpg

http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos...7_420524_n.jpg

Just got off the phone with Summit....btw, 5am is THE BEST time to call them. The night crew is very knowledgeable and the wait time is non-existant. I alerted them to the issue and they're going to fix the website and ship me the correct bolts, ARP 770-1007 (2 packs).

Very cool build - thank you for sharing.

I am weeks away from starting my 2nd gen build.

you're making good progress. I can't wait to get my second gen home and get started.

Good job!

Jody

Very cool. Parts are coming in fast and furious.
Keep us posted.:thumbsup:

Hey Id smile too if I got all those parts! Im watching your build, so that I will get motivated and change out my anchor and go with something lighter. How much weight difference will ther be between the big-block and the LS? Not to mention it will be easier on gas as well.:thumbsup:

Mark IV Big Block weighs roughtly 685lbs with iron heads.

LS1 is 400-430 lbs depending on source.

LQ4/9 is 70lbs more than that, so 470-500lbs...that would be 215-185lbs lighter than a BBC.

Should be fun.

Got the oil pan off today and took a look at the bottom end. As soon as I get myself a torque wrench with the proper range I will install the ARP rod bolts and do a step by step.

http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._6835576_n.jpg

http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs168...._3071895_n.jpg

I cleaned everything off and then oiled everything down. No discoloration, just general varnish and carbon build up on everything. Previous owner definately didn't change their oil too often. Thank god it looks like they never ran it low.

be sure to do one bolt at a time. it will be a fast a painless process. i took mine and backed the bolt all the way out then in a bout 5 turns. then grabbed some channel locks and "yanked" on the bolt head. it brought the ferrel out with it. then just put the arp bolt in and torque it, be sure to use the installation grease when installing them. then move on to the next bolt.. ls1howto.com has some good info floating around ...

Going back together
 

After working a 10-hour Sunday shift for the Boeing co and having my obligatory valentine's bedroom time with my wife, I escaped to one of my two man-caves. (the other is my office where I'm at right now).

After finding a three-jaw puller and getting the balancer/crankshaft pulley off, I was finally able to get started.

Installed the camshaft (should have gotten a picture of it sitting next to the stock truck cam....what a difference!) and then I installed the SLP double roller timing set. That was a breeze. It's a really nice piece too.

http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._5978824_n.jpg

Check out the dot to dot on my install....anyone think I screwed it up? I think I'm right on.

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._8383013_n.jpg

Test fit the ported SLP pump without the shims just to see.

http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos...1_277970_n.jpg

The chain does get REALLY close to the pump, but doesn't quite touch. I can see that in operation it probably would, hence the shims that were included with the pump.

http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs157...._1699636_n.jpg

Ran out of time and didn't have any sealant for the shims....so that will probably be that for the week. Tune in next week when I install ARP rod-bolts, complete the oil pump install and button up the bottom end. If I'm feeling up to it, I might even install my ARP headstuds and the ported heads. But that's only if I find a valve spring compressor in time. Might just have to go buy one....

Remember that NEW bolts aren't to torque spec until you've torqued them MULTIPLE TIMES... My advice when using NEW bolts like this - is to torque them all == then back 'em all off - and torque 'em again - and do this about FIVE TIMES.... to final torque. It takes a little bit more time - but is good insurance.

Good advice! I've seen alot of leaking head gaskets because someone didn't want to take the time to do this! New bolts gotta be stretched, or they will do it themselves later. 5 times is what ARP recommends...

Just trying to learn here. If you install new rod bolts shouldn't the ends be resized??? :question:

Nope, not on LS motors. On a classic small block, the rod has a different design that requires a resize when you mess with the rod bolts (not actually bolts on a SBC). On LS motors, the rods are held together with actual bolts, and all you need to do is replace and torque them.

And that's because the rods have sleeves to align the cap and rod.

Very much agree with your thought process. The L92/LS3 suff does seem to turn a higher peak hp # but the the cathederal ports often have a higher peak tq and broader curve mostly due to velocity.

Since I did my heads and cam ls1 6 years ago I have also noticed a trend on ls1tech and the LSx world in general to go with a big cam that get the hp #s but does not have the curve to go along with it. A well thought out LS6 heads and cam can turn some great #s. Looks like you have a solid plan.

If you have not already done so and decide to go for more cam, search Ls1tech for topics on dynamic compression, a calculator was floating around IIRC PianoProdigy posted it. Depending on the static compression of your LQ4 with the milled heads you can get more greedy on the cam. Good luck on the build.