School bully issue, opinions wanted
 

Ok guys, here is the scoop. My son is almost 6 and goes to an all day kidergarten program at the elementary near us. Since shortly after the start of the school year he has been the target of another kid in his class. This kid throws toys, rocks, books, punches him in the face, kicks him and pushes him down on the playground. This kid also calls him names and says mean things to my son.
This has all been documented by me and the teacher. She (teacher) has confronted the parents a few times without any change. I have been assured by the staff at the school that my son is in no way instigating any of this himself. Yesterday he got hit in the head with a book that was thrown like a frisbee. This alone could have done serious damage to his eye (hit right above it).
I have talked to the teacher, principal and today the district office directly to the principals boss. I really feel like this kid should have been pulled out of this class a long time ago and that the principal is not doing anything to fix this problem.
I made it clear today that if they do not remove this other kid from class that I will make it a legal issue for the district on Monday.
the school has a zero tolerance policy about bullies but has not enforced it at all. I feel like they don't take my sons well being seriously. I am NOT going to wait for a more serious injury to react to this. But I feel like they are.

Now before you say my son should defend himself, he knows that responding with voilence is not the right way to handle this. He does go to martial arts class 4 days a week and could wax the floor with this kid but is mature enough to know not to. Trust me, it would take all of 25 seconds for my son to resolve this on his own. But I do not want to teach him to respond like this unless it is a real emergency and he has no other choice.

So I guess my question is besides going to the district and demanding a fix for this, what else can I do? I could go to the kids house and react poorly on his parents, but that only teaches my son that the violence is ok. If he was a lot older I would encourage him to take care of it himself, but he should not be faced with that crap at his age.
I told the district office that the next step will be a legal one. I also told them that this other kid obviously needs help of some sort. 5 year olds don't do this stuff without learning it at home first.

So thoughts on how to handle this? Has anyone else dealt with anything similar in a public school? How did you handle it?

Thanks for any input. I need this resolved NOW for my sons sake.

What about having one of the kids moved into a different class.

I raised 3 boys. As much as I hate to say it, if he kicks that kids ass in front of everyone, he will probably get suspended, but won't have to worry about this stuff ANYMORE! If he continues to handle this through "the system". there is another bully waiting where this one left off.

The kid going to another class was my first suggestion to the school. Why it has not happened I don't know. I refuse to have my own kid uprooted and moved away from his teacher and friends because the other kid makes it a hostile environment. The other kid needs to go.
But I will find out on Monday Todd.

Frank,
I would LOVE to have him handle it himself. BUT, not yet at this age. If he were just a few years older then great. I would turn him loose on the kid. Right now I want him to understand that all other resources need to be tried first, then kick the hell out of the kid. He can and he knows it. He is actually afraid of hurting the kid. It's just not the response I want him to learn out of the gate. But I do agree with you, he should. I just can not encourage him to do that ...yet.

Somebody just posted about this very subject on yellowbullet the other day:(

That sucks! It was not me. It makes me sick to think that kids these days are like this. At 5 years old everything should be fun and games, innocent, safe. Not like this.

Someday my son will understand and take matters into his own hands, but not yet. I hope. I am trying to teach him right, and so far so good. I don't want this to get worse though.

I could only hope to meet this kids parents behind closed doors....they are the real issue behind this kids troubles.

invite the kid to your sons martial arts classes...sounds like the sport might teach him some discipline that school and his family cant :thumbsup:

I haven't had this problem yet. My daughter is 3yr 7 months, son is 7 months.
I understand how you are feeling about your son fighting back, I dont want my kids getting into fights. I was bullied when I was young, a few guys would think it was funny to push me around and charge after me when I was young. My mom did a lot of talking to parents, teachers, principles.... The parents disciplined there kids. I remember it getting worse. One day I lost it and put them both on there azzes. Once the kids realized I wasn't going to be a push over they stopped. Years later, we became friends.
Im not telling you what to do, just sharing personal experience.

I have to agree, if the school can't handle it then it's time for him to stand up for himself in one form or another. Back when I was in Kindergarden they would paddle your ass. I still remember the principal taking kids out in the hall. All this political bologna put an end to it and this is what the educators are left with. Princiapals should still have that power IMO. Parents that could care less about there kids and their behavior are not to rare now. I hear about it all the time. Kelli is a 1st grade teacher.

Good idea. Then my son could teach him some manners.


Someday he will have to fend for himself, I am very aware of that. But not at 5 years old. Like I said, if he were older I would fully encourage he take this kid to the ground with a roundhouse kick to the head. Just not yet.

I am still looking for a solution through the proper channels. If this makes it worse, I will escalate the issue one on one with the father of this kid. My way. I am fully aware of the kind of world we live in. But right now my son depends on me to protect him and I will not let him down.

I am wondering if anyone else has had to deal with a school or district on this issue or level before.
If it comes to kicking some ass, then game on. I am all in. But would rather exhaust all other avenues first. It will keep me out of jail longer.

I agree Todd. I wish the schools had more leverage with the kids. I remember getting my ass whacked more than once in school.

I bet Kelli sees it all huh?

The bottom line is that if he NEEDS to he will. And when that happens I will back him up 110% with whatever trouble he gets into.

There are some STELLAR examples of bad parents around here. (where I live that is)

Give Brenden a high-5 for me...he's acting very mature for his age!

It's up to the school and school district to do the right thing here! Hopefully early next week the other kid is moved to a differant class room and the parents get a good talking to! And hopefully they don't share recess time after the kid moves class rooms...at that point if it continues then I guess Brenden needs to 'fix it' himself...just tell him to hold back on the kid!

I stood up to the neighborhood bully when I was around 12 yrs old, he never gave me crap again and we have been real good friends since!

Best of luck with this!!

I would guess you might be correct here. This other boy probably has some special needs. My wife is a Para-Educator at one of the local schools. She works one-on-one with a few kids that have issues. Some of them are pretty violent towards other kids...and the teachers.
Maybe this kid needs some special attention and the teaching staff hasn't looked into it yet?I agree that a lot of it comes from home and the way his folks raise him.
I hope you find a civil solution, Eric.

File suit against the parents, the principal and the school district on Monday. The complaint doesn't need to be fancy, it doesn't even need to withstand a demurrer. All it needs to do is to get their attention. Have the complaint served on Monday, by a process server, in person, at the school - make sure you sue and serve the principal personally and make sure you allege that he/she has willfully failed to follow district policy. It'll cost you a little to prepare the complaint and to have it personally served, but you want shock and awe.

DO NOT encourage or allow you son to kick the bejeesus out of the other kid. That will only muddy the record, and may expose you and your kid to a world of hurt. The "parents" of the other kid are clearly not suitable to be rearing young, and will only seize on any retaliation to pursue a claim against you.

School Superintendent is next step, then Board of Ed President. Use the word lawsuit liberally. Keep your notes together.

Too bad, if your boy whacks bully kid with a book or kicks him in the jewels your boy will get in trouble. I bet his parents know the word lawsuit. Funny correlation there.

Thanks Roger and Tony,
He (my son) is handling this deal pretty mature for a 5 year old. He is a tough kid and can take his lumps. You should see him spar at class every night. This kid is in for a WORLD of hurt if Brenden cuts loose on him. But telling my 5 year old to go beat up some other kid at school is a tough pill for me to swallow.

I also hope we find a civil solution and fast. They are having a staff meeting on Monday and I should have some sort of answer.
The other kids parents have been talked to a few times. I have been told it was like talking to a brick wall and that I should be glad I don't know them. Sounds like a great place to raise a kid huh?
You know, if this kid does not get some help in his life he WILL end up in prison and then I get to pay for it. Pretty cool how that works huh?

Maybe Brenden kicking his ass will change him and do him a favor?

I spoke to the district head tonight. He is the direct boss of the principal at this school. He was not aware of any of this, but he assured me he will be a surprise guest at the staff meeting on Monday and get to the bottom of it. I made it clear that I want to work this out without going to the next step which is a legal issue for them. I also made it clear I will not compromise when it comes to my son and that they need to take care of this right now.

Check out this thread
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=205263
Hope you get it all worked out.

That's bureaucrat for "the check's in the mail." The principal is either incompetent or uncaring. Either way, you won't get instant action. You'll get a lot more attention with a complaint or even just a letter from a lawyer - on Monday.

Thanks, I will check it out.

Monday will tell me a lot about how they are going to handle this. And it will give me the answers I need to make the next step. Next on the list is my lawyer (already spoken to him today), the police and the district.

I thought about the media. How funny would it be to show up with a news crew on a live feed asking why they let this continue.....

Ok, I would not do that. But the thought is fun!

I tried getting on this but it would not load. I will try it later, but thanks again for the link.:thumbsup:

questions
 

Ok

take a picture of what happened to your sons face if visible ...#1

Your doing a great job handling this ..:cheers:
I have found if i demand certain things from people sometimes they dont respond the way i want but if i pose it in a question in which they have to tell me what they need to do about something ..IT REGISTERS IN THIER HEAD...Once they say what they need to do or will do then OWNERSHIP of the issue is in thier court..
I would not tell the "whomever" to do anything or else anymore.YOUVE DONE IT..
I would question that person as to what they think should be done. Turn THE PROBLEM ON THEM IN QUESTION FORM....if you tell them its happened x # times.which you have ..
Your wanting someone to tell you "WHAT THEY WILL DO OR what THEY THINK SHOULD BE DONE ABOUT IT. dont say a word until they answer your question.Even if they stall or dont say anything for 5 minutes.Make the DAMN GUY THINK .Then when they give you the answer tell them "ok so you will call me and tell me when this has been done correct" ?
If you get one more chicken SHIZZ answer..LAY THE SMACK DOWN
I WOULD SERVE THEM PAPERS..make a STATEMENT..

AND JUST BE CALM AND FIRM..business like...
GOOD LUCK..

TOM

Ask, in writing (email, hand delivered letter), if you can attend the portion of the staff meeting dealing with this situation. Whether or not you get to attend, give them a clear written demand - you want the other kid transferred out of your son's class no later than Tuesday. If the kid's not transferred, lawyer up. Do it all in writing, just so there's no dispute about what occurred. It's up to you to escalate this so they can't just shrug it off.

For me, when my kid is at risk, it's not a time to be nice or patient, it's a time to kick ass and take names.

Agreed. Monday is the deadline for change. I have asked that they remove the kid. And told them if they do not that it will become a legal issue. I told this to the principal, teacher and district head. I will put it in writing and hand it to them on Monday. Thanks for the advice.
I am being "nice" by that I mean acting in a professional manner and not running around like a whack job making threats. They know I am serious. I made that clear. I also made it clear to them all that my sons saftey and well being are not something I will make any kind of compromise on. Ever.

If I do not have the results I want on Monday morning I will go pay the retention fee with the atty. They will be served by Tuesday.

Thanks for all of the advice and input guys. That is why I put it out here, hearing from others always helps.:thumbsup:

Agreed, you want to be calm, clear and deadly serious.

Sounds like you've got it handled, but remember put everything in writing. If you have a call, confirm what was said in a letter (and, of course, keep a copy).

It's all about the documented record. It's a crappy way to have to be, but hopefully it's only for a short period.

Thanks Mike,
I have everything documented right up to today. Including the conversation with the officials at the district office this evening. Names, dates, events, actions or lack of.....all of it. Ten years ago I would have already beat someone. Amazing what a few years will do to mellow a guy out huh?:lol:
I can take a lot of crap, but someone messing with or even worse hurting my kid is not something I will deal with on any level.

Thanks again guys!

Just to be perfectly clear, a letter setting out your version of an event (e.g., confirming what was said in a telephone call) and sent to the other party is MUCH better than simply taking notes. If the other party disputes your version of events, the letter creates a burden on them to either respond or, implicitly, to accept what you said.

Now that you're getting to the short stokes, send letters (if you haven't been doing so all along).

You and your son are handling this situation the right way. A couple of thoughts on the letter. If you hand deliver the letter on Monday, you might want to follow up with it a certified letter through the mail directly to the principal. That way there is no doubt it was received and it won't turn into a he said/she said situation. You may also want to get in touch with your states child protective services. Many times children acting out like this is a reflection of a poor home inviornment. Even if they can't help at the moment, get the name of the person you speak to with CPS and use that as some leverage when you have your meeting with the school. Make sure you document everything in the order in which it has happened.

Here is the plan.
Take my son to school Monday morning. If the other child is in class I will head directly to the atty and let them write up and serve everything. They can be the point of contact and take care of it. I have everything documented to this point. They have sat on their hands and done nothing. (except blow sun shine up my ass)

For the recoed I did make it very clear I think they need to investigate what is going on with the other child at home. In this state they have a legal obligation to report this to the state and follow up as well. They are also legally obligated to provide counseling and care for this child too. CPS really sucks in this state. But it is better than nothing. And that kid needs help. But my first priority is my own child. The only way to make sure he is safe is to remove the other one.
I will ask the atty about serving a restraining order on the kid through his parents. They would then be required to keep him at least 500 yards away from my son, which just happens to be enough to not let him be on school property.
I will let the atty handle it after Monday morning if need be. I have made it clear how I feel. The abuse is well documented by me and by the teacher and school nurse. Several of the support staff at the school have seen it happen many times. In the library, play ground, class room, lunch room....it is not a new thing for any of them. That is why I am so pissed that they let it go on til now. I am just amazed that adults would just sit by and let it happen and do nothing. And even after I have asked them to work with the other parents to resolve it, nothing. Now it is time to force some action.

I will keep you posted on how it goes on Monday. I am done F****ing around with these people. If they will not do the jobs that we as taxpayers pay them to do then I will make it my mission to replace them with those that will.

Wow Mike
I dread ever having to face this with my kids. My son is 7 and so far no problems with this kinda stuff. My daughter is almost 4 and more shy. I dread the "mean girl" crap with my daughter more than my son. That stuff is so much harder to deal with.

I think you are going through the right channels and doing the right thing.....but I hate to say it but it probably wont change the situation. Short of that kid moving schools, your son will deal with this kid again. They may be in a different class but if this other kid has it out for your son, he will find him again.

There is only one way to deal with a bully and thats straight on....telling him not to do something or saying "leave that kid alone" only fuels their desire. Its a power play and thats exactly what they want. They want to be challenged and show that they can do whatever they want to whomever they want and no one can stop them. If he know he can push everyone buttons he will go out of his way to do it.

If it were me I would do exactly what you have done....try all the "right" channels first. Get it all documented..... then I would give my kid free reigh to lay the smackdown on this kid. He doesnt need to beat the crap out of him...it wont take much for this kid to realize that he needs to find someone else to mess with...one decent punch will usually do it.

I know that may be hard to face at his age. But you teach him that you try to do the right thing first, but sometimes "enough is enough" and you have to do whats necessary to stand up for yourself. That should be the message for your son.

Man I hope I never have to deal with this crap....

Good luck.

One more comment...

I know you feel like the school staff and admin arent doing anything....but try to take into consideration what they CAN do. Just as you have a legal right to file suit, so do the other parents..... "my son is being singled out....you arent providing the supervision or instruction he needs...... you are harming him emotionally by making him change classes....he'll be labelled a bully..... you're harassing us"....blah blah blah....all BS but school districts have been sued for big $$ over that type of stuff too

You would be suprised how "hand tied" they are on what they are legally allowed to do to. They may WANT to do alot.....but unfortunately our legal system has made it the way it is. Similar to the criminal system, alot of the criminals end having more rights than the victims....sucks but thats they way it is....

Thanks Ned. You have met him, he was at Tims when you came up to get the car last summer. Anyway, I am at the "enough is enough" stage right now. I have been stewing over it for weeks, then thought it was taken care of only to find out today the principal did nothing and put it back on the teacher to deal with the parents, again.
When Brenden gets to the point of retaliation it will be over quick, and the other kid will loose I am sure. I just don't want that to happen so young ya know?

I think this kid is crying out for attention. Part of this that I had not mentioned because it would look like I am being biased (which I am because it's my son) is that Brenden is the "popular" kid in the class. All of the other kids look up to him, he helps the teacher by helping the other kids on their work when he gets done with his. He has all of the little girls at his desk non stop. All the boys want to play at recess with him....he gets all of the attention. But it is because he is a good kid and a very nice kid to everyone. This kid that picks on him is on the other end of the spectrum. He is disruptive (to get attention), throws stuff, yells in class, is rude to everyone and just a pain in general. I think it is because he is neglected at home or maybe even abused and the only way he gets any attention is by acting out.
So Brenden being the center of attention makes him a prime target for the kid. He hits my son, the attention shifts to him, he is satisfied. But it is for all the wrong reasons and done in a rotten way.
Either way you slice it the parents are to blame for his issues and they are the ones that need an asskicking I think.

I can honestly say that I have NEVER been this angry about anything in my life. This take it to a whole new level.

We have been in this situation with two of my sons. My youngest is in 1st grade at the time was having issues with a 3rd grader. We went to the principle with the situation was told they would look into it. They did nothing said they watched the kid for a few days nothing changed. Luckily this kid walked home also. My older kids (twins really big kids) in the 5th grade at the time saw the kid picking on my little guy. They took care off the kid. His parents called the police they ended up calling it defending an attack. Could've pressed charges against the kid but he had enough probs at home we found out. Never had another prob with the kid. The other time one of my big guys had an issue with a kid when he was in the sixth grade from an older kid. Told my son to tell him he was going to get the wrath of both of them, it still persisted. I went to the principle to get them to deal with it. Told the principle that my son was going to fix the problem if he didn't. The twins were almost 6 ft at the time but the principle took care of it. they are now in high school and are 15 years old and are 6'3" 210# and nobody messes with them now. I wish you great success with this as it can be very frustrating dealing with the school district.

Thanks for the insight. Yes, it is very frustrating dealing with the school so far. I seem to have gotten a much better response from the district though. Time will tell.
If I gave my son the freedom to just go beat this kid he could do it in a hurry, but at this age? I just can not do that yet. Maybe in a couple years?

Eric, my wife is a 1st grade teacher and has dealt with her fair share of these types of issues. First off, your son's teacher isn't doing enough---this type of behavior in class that you are speaking of (at least her in Cali) gets the kid thrown out for suspension. Further, social services and a counselor are called in for the kid in question when this type of behavior takes place. That's been our experience over the past 12 years here. They (your school and its district) need to be doing more for you and this other boy.

The unfortunate part of this type of story is that the kid being thrown out is usually being abused or mistreated at home (typically a recent divorce, step brother or sister hits them, etc). I think you are approaching the right people in this, but you will have to make it painful for them since they are showing obvious signs of being disengaged. When your son is there, he is "their" responsibility legally--they have to safeguard his well being and provide a safe enviornment. You aren't just fighting for your son, you are setting the example for the school and the district that they must take this seriously, and you may have to force it upon them through the voice of an attorney like Mike has mentioned---it's a good fight since it will ultimately affect all the kids when it is finished. Your son may be able to stand up for himself, however there will be many other kids that this boy will find to pick on who won't be able too---you know the damage that does to such young kids---keep doing what you are doing and get the pain in the right place---the media certainly isn't a bad idea given what you have said, and trust me Eric, they would be interested--you can pretty much be guaranteed that the issue would be resolved when they are brought in. It would be a great idea to alert the other parents about this as well, as you can be assured that it's not just your son this kid is affecting. Some kids just won't say anything to their parents about it all---those are the ones who suffer the most. Get a couple of those serious soccor moms po'd and you've got some powerful allies.

Now, I am with the others however should the kid in question not lay off your son after you've done all you can do. You've turned the other cheek and it is admirable--I applaud your kindness to the other boy through your son. You are setting a great example to him. I've got a 7 year old in 1st grade and a 4 year old daughter---like others and yourself, I dread this type of thing as much as has been mentioned. The thought of someone hurting them or even the threat of it would seriously enrage me, so I understand your restraint and admire it. I will get some advice from my wife as well on this and pass that onto you. Please keep us posted as to the outcomes--this is good info to pass along.

Doug

so thats how you got that janitor job!:lol:

Go kick the kid's dad's ass. :lol:

sorry Eric, hope all works out tomorrow..you could always "get Jessie" ...he is a local wistle blower news media guy, with the kind of response here, this might be a good one to get the media involved, they hate that worse than the word lawsuit. Jessie is my good friend's brother.

everybody has had to deal with the bully in class and far too many of us didn't do anything about it like in the movie "Christmas Story" me included. on one side I wish your son would teach him a lesson but on the other side this poor kid is another ....slipping through the system child who is being taught this crap at home. Dad's probably not around, boyfriend is still a boy himself who lives for the latest PS3 video game and aspires to be the next Texas Hold-em champ knows or cares little about raising a child that belongs to some chick he met in a karaoke bar....need I go on.

I'm not passing judgment here, just stating years of youth experience and seeing a kid who the system has failed him. The kid deserves the dad that you are, he got the shaft and is acting out...and our school system is shoving him though the pipeline. They can't do anything about it unless he shows signs of abuse himself. and then what he gets passed into the foster system. Sorry to rant, been taking adoption classes for two days hearing about kids who have tough home lives. I will pray for this kid and hope all works out for you.

I just hope the kid doesn't get the the crap beat out of him by karaoke superstar boyfriend for being disciplined at school and switched to another class. I'm sure the mom will play the victim card.

You guys could always join a home-school co-op and you could start buying your wife denim jumpsuits:lol: :lol:

Let us know how it works out, my thoughts and prayers are with you guys- Chris