Its Time For The Builders To Come Together And Stop This Crap
 

With the economy so bad and times getting harder and harder for some its time that builders come together and stop the BS with these cars that are being produced.

I see all too often these cars that have a huge price tag on them and a build level of not even ¼ of what someone paid for it. We are fixing more and more half ass builds out there and its getting ridicules. Someone out there somewhere has to care that they are spending good money for crap.

It’s time for everyone out there buying cars to wake up and do some research on what you are going to buy or build. Whether you are going to buy a car or the parts to build the car stop going to the cheapest guy on the market because you don’t always get what you pay for.

The problem is everyone wants a deal and just because the economy is down does not mean the deal is good. Stop going to these guys that sell cars out of their house or that build them on the side out of their house for fun. Not all guys that do this are bad but with more and more cars coming up like the ones pictured here and this one is the worst I have seen yet it’s getting bad and bad fast.

I get calls and calls to go look at a car or pictures with can you look this car over and let me know what you think. Well no I can’t not anymore because there are more scam artist out there than ever before.

I had a very good customer of mine that was looking at buying this car. Look over the pics and let me know what you think. (NO WE HAD ABSOLUTLY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE BUILD OR BUY) I got the pics too late to say anything.

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/j...S/SDC11391.jpg
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Seems like a nice car, price is great around $35,000 no way you could build it for that. Drives nice, underside looks nice, paint is very nice, can’t seem to find any rust or bondo problems, interior is perfect, everything works.

So he bought the car thinking man what a great deal and great buy. He looked at hundreds of pictures of the car and yes this car was a full rebuild. Everything new on it.

Look at the pictures and see just how nice the car really is.

I have more coming just have to get the pictures loaded and will finish the story

oh boy...can't wait.:willy:

$35,000 is alot for a car. Short of being a special car thats a numbers resto I just dont see that car being worth that. Sure it might cost $50,000 to get it built that way, but that doesnt mean its worth more than $15-17,000.

I want name names!! but I was in a shop that had two real Shelby GT 500s in for resto. Customer had bought both of the cars for over $50K and they both needed full resotration. I personally witnessed said shop repairing rust in the floors by simply applying fiberglass cloth and coating with resin. We are talking softball size holes. they were in the process of painting one of them with your run of the mill $150 a gallon clear coat. And the shop owner was quick to gloat on how he was getting over $150K each for the resto's. I see more and more of this every day. Where guys pay way to much without knowing what they are getting into. But then you have shops like me, who I think do very well respected work that sit on our hands most of the time cause guys want turn loose of the money cause I don't have a name attached to me. Then you see cars on ebay with high end parts on it that bring twice the amount of the of a better quality car but it just doesn't have the name attached to it also.

Now to the sad part of this story, this car looked really nice and drove really well but the scum bags of today have really figured out how to take advantage of everyone so OPEN your eyes and know what you are buying.

They put bondo over every part of rust but just thin enough that the bodo gauges had a rough time finding it. The complete underside of the car was coated and covered and looks completely factory. The work looked great and the average person would not be able to find this stuff.

There are people out there that will spend a ton of time thinking up ways that they can take advantage of someone buy cutting every corner of a build to make more money. Hours are hours when it comes to building a car and if you are going to be serious about this in any way it’s time to stand up and put these people out of business.

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Yes the car broke into two parts all the way accorss

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Here are some simple rules for you guys to follow when it comes to looking into buying a car or parts for your car.

• If it sounds too good to be true it is, no one is going to give you something unless they are going to lose it to an EX.

• Check their backgrounds find out what they have done before and if people liked it

• If they just sell on EBay stay away everything we have seen from there is crap and every good deal from there has cost more than expected because of the scams

• Pull up the carpet look under ask for pics of that build area

• Ask for pics before paint if they don’t have them they did not paint it

• Ask for engine out shots if they painted it with the engine in you probably don’t want the car

• Ask for interior build shots see what and how they did it, I will post up some shots of what we see all the time

• Pull up carpet in trunk climb in and check all the rust spots

• Look for all panel replacement work

• Look over suspension make sure it looks like they have at least gone over it all and fixed any issues, if it looks old it’s not a rebuild it’s not a restoration it’s a quick fix to make a buck and a fast one at that.

• Check body alignment make sure the cars fits, check door gaps if they hit its not aligned right and that will cost you labor and paint to fix, check hood/trunk gabs make sure they are correct or it will cost you

• Check windows make sure they all work and no water comes in the car in rain, check seals make sure they are all new not old and rotten

• Check engine fluids all of them, remove the oil cap and check the oil feel it to see how old it is, check water, trans, PS and so on. Smell them to make sure they are not burnt

• But best of all use your judgment when buying a car, if the guy seems weird, strange or won’t answer certain questions clearly don’t buy it move on. You don’t need the headaches of a used car problem

• Now some of you can fix all this yourself so if you are up to it good luck.

I am just so sick of the idiots out there that think they can build a car and do it as good as the larger shops for half the money. There is a reason that guys go to big name shops because they in most cases stand behind what they do and they have a name that over time will let them know the car will still be worth something.

A great question to ask any shop that you are at is what cars go for that you build if people sell them. If they tell you that a certain car that you know cost let’s just say $500,000 and they sell it for $200,000 that is not a good investment. If the cars that sell get close to the build cost then you have a good builder if not then something is not right. Now in their defense not all cars are the right cars to build and some people just have more money they style so that can play a roll.

This same deal runs in the parts business and wheel business you usually get what you pay for so a $300 wheel is nothing like a $900 three piece wheel no ifs ands or butts about it they are nothing alike same with parts for the cars. If you think a guy can make parts for your car at half the price than anyone else on the market they are not good parts unless he is doing it from his garage and making no money. Not many people want to do that either. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR and if it seems to good to be true than watch out because you are going to have problems.

Maybe if we (builders and buyers) get together and work together and not against one another we can make this whole experience 1000 times better. Sorry for the long rant but enough is enough and everyone needs to wake up and stop buying crap.

Yes this is what happens when you half ass something

Ty's car was a perfect example. WE easily removed over 3 gallons of mud off the car. How hard is it to pull a dent instead of applying filler by the gallon. Rust repair is not covering the backside of the hole with tinfoil then mudding over it. It happens more and more everyday. Folks trying to make a quick buck. I'm guilty of getting screwed!! my challenger I bought looked great, jsut like it had been sitting in a barn for 30 years. But got it to the shop and blasted it and found tons of recent mud work and then had a $8,000 shell that then had to have $4000 of sheetmetal put on it.

I hate to see someone go screwed :(

1. People get the itch and just gotta scratch it, we are an instant gratification society.

2. There is always someone out there looking to seperate you from your $$$$.

3. People are always looking for a DEAL, and if it sounds to good to be true it almost always is!

There is no way I would drop over 10k on a car without seeing it in person, regardless of who I let inspect it for me. I would not put that deciding factor on someone elses shoulders, becuase unless your there with them looking atthe car thats what your doing. If you cant muster getting out to see it yourself do you really care what condition it is in, your just tossing money around. /shrug.

OMFG...someone should be shot for doing that abortion to a car.
I cannot possibly imagine how that car would hold up in an accident...:willy:

WOW!!! That's bad. I hate seeing stuff like this!!!:mad:
Thanks for posting Chris.:thumbsup:

k I have calmed down some after looking atthe pix... I think my disbelief overtook me there for a bit. :_paranoid

Is there any legal recourse the buyer has? Misrepresentation of the goods, etc... Some major damages in the amount of ubsurd $$$ needs to be handed out, then maybe the fear of being held accountable may make some people less willing to pull stuff like that.

X2 Nothing gets a persons attention like reaching into their wallet.

And that was a "professional" restoration shop! UFB

Holy crap,When did it break in half...Trailer ride? hoist?

ebay sucks ! i made the mistake of buying a 66 chevelle drop top off ebay the owner said rust free . wrong it should have said free rust ! the car was so rusty it was covered with roof flashing then bediner coated inside to hide the roof flashing . i called the owner he said fu#$you and hung up the phone . i then called my lawyer he said because i had it shipped across state lines i was out of luck ,unless i wanted to hire a ohio lawyer then i was going to only get part of the money back . this just tought me a great lesson DONT TRUST ANYONE !

i only used the roof bows ,2in of the top of the windshied frame , and the metal around the decklid ! when the car showed up at my shop if i sat in the seat the door would not open .

ps ,
because i did not pay with paypal i had no money recourse the owner only would take a chasiers check.

A crook is a crook. Nothings going to change it. Educating the public is the only way and Chris has some excellent advice.

Agree 110% with Chris F. Good points! Money changes people though, sometimes common sense is lost when money is involved...ok, well alot of times it is...

Money spent has NOTHING do with quality or correctness. You can spend the same amount on crap as something nice.

This happens at Best of Show all the time..

Guy comes in.. want's a quote.. let's say it's a full tilt stip, fix and paint.. they quote $20k (just a number I picked)..

He comes back saying XYZ down the street will do it for $8k..

Well I'm sure they will.. but you will get $8k worth. Hell, on a NICE paint job you can spend $4k and up on materials. On a second get they just painted the clear alone was well over a grand.

But people buy on price and then gripe about the quality instead of buying on VALUE.

The shop has gotten quite a few re-dos and aborted projects that were gettting hacked by some other low-bidder shop.

cheap, good, fast.. pick two.. lol

People also forget that that a high-end "show finish" cut and buff can take 40+ hours.. But they expect that show finish even with thier $8k paint job.

Same thing that happend to Andy (MARINE 1) .This is what $80.000 got him and the guy is still in buisness!!!!! Andy still has no car and lots of lawyer bills. The guy basicaly told him to go F@&K HIMSELF!!!!!! Just robbed the man of $80.000. This isn't half the pictures. I went with Andy last year and saw this beauty in person I wanted to puke!!! You should of heard this j@#koff's line's of bulls@#t. You would have thought he was Chip Foose...:mad:

You see.. I feel REALLY bad for someone that spends the $$$ for good work and get's crap than I do the guy that cheaps out and gets cheap work.

Getting robbed of $80k is a raw deal for sure.

builders
 

I had a so called builder for chatsworth ca. that done a mini tub and a custom engine bay. The engine bay was on the cover of hot rod, Yes it looked good but there was about 5 gallons of mud to shape the engine bay which at sema show was starting to crack, The list goes on The rear axle and rear rails were a total sh*t job the shocks were angled up over the axle and when the car traveled down the shocks would bind on the housing in fact just from trailering the camaro the shock adjusters were worn away, The top and bottom bolts were mount 90 degrees from each other and when the traveled the shock rods would bend, He also messed up the axle seals. Now the engine bay some of the welds were so weak I pulled out one panel by hand. He clearanced for the wipers but they hit and would not work. The firewall had holes into the interior so his fix was to fill them with foam spray but that still had some leaks, In fact I washed the car and more water was in the car than on the floor. the best part was the hood would not close since he made a custom radiator cover and it was a little to high and hit the hood. This list goes on and on.
This was a $50,000 bill for this work so big money does not always get a good job. I needed to post this so you fellow car guys stay far far awayfrom this builder.
I have the car back and cut the floors out and the engine bay. It is sucky feeling walking by the scrap bin and looking at my $50,000 and knowing its about $30.00 of scrap iron.

Randy

Thats SOOOO crazy... lol.
We too have a very high end build in the shop right now. The body came primed and "done"... but we had to cut into it to do some of the spoiler fab work. The car looked real clean. But there was about 1/2 inch of mud on the corner of the rear quarter. lol... it was junk. We had to order a new section... cut out the "finished" section... and start there. Pretty crazy because this dude paid good dough to a reputable shop. But now we know what kind of work that shop does....... Good for us, i guess.;)

How did that Mustang split?

I guess you got Bent over on that one

Our own buddy here is having a car fixed because of these same issues. Karma will be cool.

I bet you're sleeping like a baby right now. :unibrow:

I used to work for a guy (not building cars) who would do things like this and ask an arm and a leg for his crappy work. What goes around comes around as they say

there is absolutely nothing wrong with having a small shop building cars,some of the small shop projects can blow away the big shop's finished product,it takes some research and checking out their work in person. Most big shops have big overhead and in the end the customer pays for it,

There will always be crooks and butchers and naive fools with more money than brains, if they have no common sense,they should at least get a proffesional to check the car they are looking to buy.

That Mustang surely wasn't checked ,because putting it on the lift would provide more than enough evidence to stay away from it, because it would turn in horse shoe as soon as the lift or jack touch the rockers or floors of that rust bucket.

I'm simply defending small shops that do quality work,because I actually own a small shop and my customers get alot more than they actually paid for.

Alot of times I find myself fixing someone's half-ass work, and it makes me sick to see some of hack work.

Recent example,a year old Nissan GTR with small ding on fender and quarter panel was repaired and the whole side was painted including both bumpers,not one single piece of trim was removed, not even rear nameplate or the tag brackets ,which are held by 1 Phillip's head screw, there was so much dirt and fisheyes in the paint ,you'd get a better finish in the middle of desert sand storm, the tire dressing that was slung on the wheelwell edges wasn't even wiped off,let alone scuffed, I'm sure most of you get the picture. I've done alot of spot repair on brand new still in plastic cars for a local dealership, they also deal with a big franchise shop ,that had their SUV for over 6 months repairing side damage, in process of repair the vehicle caught on fire from idiots welding, that SUV still ended up at my shop for spot repairs for the damge that the shop caused, and till this day the dealership still takes their cars to that shop

Another example ,last fall I got a call from a guy ,that one of my Supra customers gave my number to, he was looking to buy a built Supra,being a Supra fanatic/collector/builder, I offered to build one for him to his specs,or if he gives me few days I could help him finding one ,but the guy had the patience of a 3 year old, needless to say,1 day fast forward ,he calls me to ask if he can bring his new Supra to check why it doesn't start, I get it in the air to check the stater,the power wire is hanging,lol, the whole underside is covered in fresh oil, crappy paint job ,even the battery got painted halfway,runs,trash,orangepeel, with poor attempt to sand and buff,leaving sanded and not buffed areas, poor fitting body panels,one big mess under the hood, speaker grille on door panels are glued on with some poop glue, Wal-Mart carpet pieces was just thrown in to cover the floor, radio does not work,right window does not go up, trunk floor has so much dirt,rust and gunk as some junk yard truck, radiator has rusty mud instead of coolant.

In less than a month I had to replace all A/C lines,because of crappy install of overflow tank causing the tank to rub through the lines and making a hole, replaced A/C compressor,dryer,expansion valve and pressure switch prior to that, because it locked up,replaced idler pulley ,replaced headlights because they were fogged up and cracking,

Here is the kicker, the guy went by himself to buy this car,paid $35.000 cash and didn't even bother to pop the hood, he even admitted that to me. So I think this kind of fools deserve to be screwed, I would gladly go and check out a car for someone at no charge and I offered it to him.So people like that should blame themselves first and the butchers second.



I've also seen photos of well known shop on here with not so great welds,but I will not point fingers or mention names

I don't think anyone has said not to use small shops.. hell, most of the good shops I know ARE small..

I think the point is to not just shop based on price and really reasearch before doing business with any shop (big or small).

BOS has 5 guys.. JCG has 3-4 and there aren't even that many guys at the Ring Brothers..

:wow:

wow, that sucks...
?? http://www.bentcustomandperformance...._84camaro.html ??

I saw that car at SEMA a few years ago and I didnt see any bondo cracks. Could be the same one though. One beast of an engine. I remember a video interview of the owner and he joked that he had 15 cars and he had to borrow his girlfriends car to get there.

it is the same car, randy(1984camaro) is the owner of that car and beast of an engine is right.

The cracks were very fine line cracks wich were on the firewall up were the cowl meets it

I think Chris emphasized in post # 6, that small shops can't put out high quality work ,at least that's what I got

I completely agree that this customer ( the one that bought the '67 'Vert) was sold something that never should have been on the road, let alone passed off as a nice car.... but part of the responsibility belongs to the buyer doesnt it? Granted, the damage and bad repair was probably smoothed over very well, and it was probably hard to tell from photos that the car was a hack-job, but buying a classic (40 year old) car from photographs alone is probably not a great idea... Small shops, big shops, the size of the shop has nothing to do with it... it's the builders integrity and the professionalism of the shop that make a good repair or restoration. There are alot of sheisters out there... there always have been... the phrase "buyer beware" (Caveat Emptor) is centuries old.... and still holds true today.

I've been a "small shop" and know guys that have "small shops" that turn out great work. I think it has more to do with personal integrity on the part of the builder, and more importantly the seller, as well as an informed or uninformed buyer.

Just my opinion.

KT.

Thanks Steve
For pointing that out, I have a small shop as well an it just got smaller because of the econ.

We strive to do top notch work an have a open door to all that want to see our work an cars we build. you can call me an come that day.six seven eight 873six five seven 8

I have had lots of people say why dont you post pick of your work up to see an just never thought we needed it,word of mouth has always keep me busy.

I have had customers that have stop work on there car because of money / car has bare metal on it, then it set's for months they come back after an want to get back on it to find the rust an want to blame us for that an after i stored there car for free for all those months.
(We will not store cars any more) you work an pay or take it home.

We have fixed our share of messed up work from other shops. Had a guy bring a camaro in for some brake work put the car on the lift an we thought the rear end an mini tub was going to fall out of the car it was glued in with panel bond an a couple tack welds. an the list goes on.

The guy that sold that mustang to some body should face a firing squad.
Thanks for sharing
An i have gone an look at lots of cars for customer/friends for free to make sure they did not get the shaft.:cheers:

I can not count on both hands an feet how many times this has happened. LOL!!:willy:

Thanks

These type of events are in every aspect of life. Not just car resto's. Every type of business from doctors to plummers fix other stuff all the time. It's never going to change. Research your purchases and get qualified help to help you. Even then there is never a guarantee. Buyer beware.