There's always a critic
 

Took the 9 down to Cars and Coffee this morning. As I am hanging out in the vinicinity of the car checking out a porsche and a ferrarii, I notice a couple guys checking out the camaro---and what are they checking out? The body gaps and how bad they are---in fact, one guy has to make sure that his friend understands how bad they are so he takes the time to point out the hows and whys of it. Now, it's true the gaps could be better--It just happened to be the first thing they said about the car---I've never seen so many paint and body experts assembled in one place on a Sat morning. This kind of thing never bothers me, but it got to me today for some reason. I noticed several others pointing out the flaws on the car as well (Rock chips, bumper needs to be rechromed, etc)--maybe it's just the crowd, but i'm amazed at the negativity of these folks. I can honestly say, i would never point out flaws on someone else's ride--I believe it's because I understand how much effort it takes just to have one in the first place, let alone maintain and improve it. I'm wondering if everyone gets this kind of treatment (from highend down to a budet build) and critique treatment? I don't normally hang around my car when i'm out of it, but was an interesting observation today. Wanted to follow the guy to see what he drove out of the parking lot but didn't want to justify myself in that manner--(even though I really wanted too--LOL).

Venting accomplished---

Doug

Next time bring me along
 

I'll park my in progress Torino next to your Camaro so they have something to really criticize.

Personally as much as I appreciate the work put into a trailer queen if the ride is to "nice" I always wonder what did you build it for? Just to look at?

That's the negative crowd in Irvine. Don't take some jackass's remarks personal. Your 69 is sweet! A majority of the cars at that show weren't built by the owners blood, sweat, and tears, they bought the Ferrari, lambo, or Ford Gt. Now if Reeves Calloway was picking your 69 apart....that would be another thing. :thumbsup:

thats why I don't like sitting next to a car I put together in a car show. Its really annoying to hear all the garbage. Funny at times but mainly annoying.

If I aint got nothing nice to say I don't, thats just me. Its called class.

Some just can't grasp that even if you don't like it someone does and someone put time and effort to put it together and cared enough to show it.
Vince

Yeah, cars and coffee is a different crowd than pretty much any other gathering/show I go to. I almost went this morning, but I couldn't bring myself to set my alarm. If you let me know ahead of time and I'll drive up.

Anyway, my observations from going beforehand.
First, I think the time has a lot to do with it; it's at 7-9. I used to wonder why, then I came to the conclusion that these car events are early in the morning because it's the only time a lot of these guys probably have free time away from their wives.
Second, given that half of them arrive before the sun comes up, haven't had any caffeine and possibly endured an hour of driving in a kidney jarring obnoxiously loud car (and I don't just mean sound, purple Diablos count too), I think it is a given that some of them will be grouchy.
Third, while at least half, if not most of the guys have a love for vintage cars and/or getting their hands dirty and enjoy the project aspect of the hobby, I think it is inevitable that some of the snobby status loving car guys show up. For every vintage race car, like the primered, half finished CanAm and LeMans raced Mclaren I saw once, there seem to be 20 guys decked out from head to tow in every imaginable piece of ferrari embroidered apparel.

Before the Camaro was done, I was too afraid to park my Mustang in the show lot because I figured people would just bitch about it being there. I wouldn't think twice about bringing your car though. As for our Camaro, I can't say anyone has criticized it in terms of quality. There is always someone that walks by and is bitter commenting on how it is "so pointless to dump 250k into a Camaro." I'm never sure how to handle that, I'm almost flattered they think the car is worth that much, lol. Then there is always the guy that says, "it really isn't that special," and if he had x amount of dollars he could build something just as nice or better.

I used to want to laugh at a couple of the imports that would show up every now and then, but I'd feel kinda bad unless I knew the owners were a couple d-bags. After all, as you said they're probably just a couple of guys that have done a ton of work and are proud of the work they did. Unless they are busy running their mouths, I've got no place to comment. They are clearly enjoying the hobby, and that is what it's all about.

I still can't believe people would pick your car apart though, its not like you entered it in a concourse show. And rock chips - really? At Cars and Coffee I'd compliment someone for driving a car enough to have rock chips. Next time you should just jump into the conversation and pretend that you talked with the owner. Hell, you should start spreading rumors about the infamous "One Legged Jihadist," and its pink hat wearing driver. I've even heard he's seen Elvis, and that he can wheel his car around an autocross faster than a real fancy purple '69 Camaro.

Matt

p.s. let me know if the Elvis joke is getting too old. Oh and if it makes you feel any better, I saw Elvis in Venice beach about three weeks ago. I'm not kidding. Here is photographic proof:
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/o...9MSA/elvis.jpg

^ Doug, this is what makes you a great person! :thumbsup:

Next time you want to go let me know! By the time they recover from snorting coffee out the nose 'cause I got high centered on the speed bump going in they shouldn't be able to be critical! :P

Jon

I can understand where you're coming from. You said it yourself, normally it doesn't bother you. Rare times it does, and it's ok to vent LOL

If the owner of the car is genuine and I see flaws, I'll keep them to myself. If I feel he's a stuff shirt, my car is better than yours kinda guy, I may lean over to my Dad and talk about a few things, but I'm never obnoxious like some people get, it's none of your business what's flawed and what's perfect...

With that said, I like listening to some people rave on..

We were at a show once, someone was looking at the car ('68 442), they go, "Man, what an ugly color!" Mom goes...thank you, I picked it out. LOL

Dings, chips and what not, let it roll dude...at least you "Drive" it.

Sometimes I can be an overly blunt person, and depending on the mood, if someone was to talk about my door gaps, and picking it apart, I'd probably look at 'em and say...if you're picking it apart this much, quit looking at it. Personally I don't consider that a critique, I call it disrespectful LOL, just leave me and my car alone, we don't want you looking at her anyway haha

Doug,

Don't sweat it brother,your 69 Camaro is a awesome ride..not many people can appreciate a 40+ year old car on the road today,sure its not 100% and it shouldn't be,but that is what makes it so cool. Its what my dad used to say "if you don't have anything to say nice...don't say it at all" some people get it..and some don't!

Keep up the awesome 9 most would kill to have it in there garage! :thumbsup:


-Jim

^^What he said! I would drive your car any day over a garage kept, -43 miles driven ferrari.

Next time you head down there let me know. I was actually going to go yesturday, but I dont like getting up that early on non workdays, and I wasnt sure it was even worth it. If theyre picking your car apart theyll LOVE mine.

Ill be going to the drags/car show here today:
http://losangelesinvasion.com/Flyer.html
Wont be running the Z though. Anyone else going?

I get alot of "wow , what a really nice car....but I would have done X instead".... big block rather than small block, auto rather than manual, blue rather than red....blah blah blah.....good for you....now get the F out of here......

Dont even sweat it. Its like trying to be the bully at school.....its usually a pathetic way to make themselves feel better about their cars or boost their ego, when in fact both of them suck :)

In my experience, the "paint and body" crowd is the worst. Thye all nit pick and attack each others work. Somehow each one of them feels that they are the only one on earth than can paint a car "right". Any other way is crap and they wont hold back telling their friend as they stand next to your car.

I'll bring a soft towel for you to cry on my shoulder next week. :D Who gives a crap what some yuppies say about your car.

Doug; The same thing happens every time I take my camaro to one of these kind of events.I think these guys who nit pic at our cars are doing it to make themselves feel good.Maybe it's because they have a little penis and there wife just told them so the night before.They are not true car guys if they are running down some one elses ride or project.A true guy will only make a pos. coment towards someone elses car.Because he knows not everybody can aford the same thing. Just have fun & you will make friends w/ the right kind of folks.Scott:thumbsup:

There were a couple times I was going to go attend these social parking lot things (cruise nights, Cars and, etc.) I ended up driving right by giving the crowd a wave to go enjoy a nice ride. If I get to spend time with one of the cars, I want to be driving it! Not listening to someone pick at the flaws in it. Maybe all you guys near that C&C should meet up near there (check out and compliment one anothers cars) and then drive past the C&C waving, then go for a nice cruise. Maybe go find a secluded empty parking lot somewhere and have your own impromptu auto-X or something.

Ok, it's noon on Sunday, writing this makes me think "get off the computer and go for a cruise" so Thats what I'm gonna do, right now!

>>>>>Heads to garage to pick one out.

Doug.... Do what I do and ask to see there car so I can see how its done! Most of these jokers do'nt even have a car....:rolleyes: Thats when I tell them ''IT COST NOTHING TO DREAM'':D The cars bad azz bro just sit and smile at the wana bee's:cheers:

I find that these people are just jealous. They are arm chair bodymen/builders who think they know what it takes, but will never spend any of their money to find out.

Exactly right there! Don't pay attention to those clowns. Should have asked him how his car ran in the auto-x. That may have shut him up and let him be on his way.:yes: ;)
AND,...your '69 is SWEET!:thumbsup: :cheers:

gotta love some that dont have a clue..i keep getting the comment about my car looking like bumble bee from transformers..then one guy said ohh its not even the right car..i said yes it is just the wrong year ..he walked away..lol..

be glad you have a car thats cool enough for him to be jealoux about.... thats what its boils down to jealouxy..... and chips in the paint means its driven.. which pro touring is all about, its not show touring or pro trailering...

precisely why I don't go to car shows nor sit around my car when I do. I walk around, take pix, and then bail.

Sorry you had to deal with some asshats. Should have asked to see their panel gaps.

a friend of mine has a 427powered, 6 pack, 4 speed 66 corvette convertible.. and he had it concours restored to beyond mint condition...

he has had people telling him he ruined the car because the gaps were too perfect and they didnt come that way from the factory

Exacty why I hate car show people, more then then car shows.

The nicer the car, the more scrutiny you get.

If you had a total sh!t box, they would of just glaced at it and gone on. But if you have something nice, people will wait until they find something to pick at.

F' em! :yes:

I was going to point out all that crap at the big party... In fact - I was going to go off on the drag car and the 9... but then the driveway filled up with even more crap and I lost my train of thought.... :rofl: :rofl:

After many years -- I've heard it all - dozens of times... and that kind of talk usually comes from the dregs... not real car people. Real car people admire the good things and understand the other.

I usually just feel sorry for them but I never pay one bit of attention to them.


:lateral: :cheers: :woot:

yea i heard people say that about cars before too... to funny

They need to have a nit- picers ratrod show.That way these people could stand around all day and bitch about all the crapy & cobbled welded up pcs. of sh%t they guys build that are not really safe to even drive down the road.And leave us muscle car guys alone.I will step down off my soap box now.

To play Devil's advocate for a second: Some of these comments strike me as a bit hypocritical. I posit that everyone in this thread has, at some point or another, been at a car show and picked at someone else's car. We've all done it.

It could be that the guys the OP mentioned are jealous, insecure, stupid, have small dicks, or whatever, or maybe the panel gaps did suck. I don't pretend to know. In the end it's just an opinion, and everyone is entitled to one.

Anyway, **** those clowns. My favorite way to deal with them is to get in on the trash talking. Take their complaints and roll with them. Tell them you saw the owner earlier and he looked like a giant asshole.

I can relate to this. What further kills me is the guys who also like to say, "I wouldn't have did this..." or, "If I were him, I would have..." There's always some guy who has never had a car or is just jealous because he may also never get one.

i agree. why the hell were they looking at your car in the first place? the bitchin stance? the wheels? the seats? something drew them in. if you had spent hours on the gaps then i would feel bad, but i personally wouldnt give a crap. i havent ever got past your wheels and stance when ive seen it in person, and i care about gaps. you know what they say about opinions, right.........

I'd tear the car completely apart and put it on a rotisserie and it would see the light of day until those damn gaps were perfect... How dare you drive such a POS and spoil those guys day! Shame on you!

:lol: That's pretty funny Greg.

Doug, I wouldn't worry about what some numbnut said about your ride. I've had people ridicule my Camaro also, mainly because it's a thirdgen. What I say is they don't you and they don't know your car. They don't know what kind of work has gone into building your Camaro. My thoughts are if they were real car guys, they would compliment the fact that you have a sweet Camaro. They can go pound sand.

yeah Greg we did lose train of thought that day didn't we. There is a difference in that we know him and bustin his balls on stuff is fun. Guys that are just walking around the car pointing stuff out, while your there close to your car, is a bit rude. Atleast wait for the owner to walk away. :rolleyes:

Man, what took you so long---I was about to call you--this post was ripe for a "Weld" comment---and it took you like 2 days to respond? Are you cheating on Lat G with someone else? LOL

I agree with every comment made here---it felt good to post up the issue and get some responses from you guys---especially when I figured I couldn't be the only one getting these guys around my car. Typically, I would never say anything about such things, however I was a bit tired of it by the end of the morning for some reason this time.

I guess I'm really amazed at a couple of things here; Matt's car being slammed for investing too much money into a 69 Camaro--that's a new one, and gaps being "too" good. Never thought I would hear that. Thanks for all the positives, that means a lot coming from this group. I am going to try the "Mario" approach on the next one---and see what happens. My luck it will be like Carrol Shelby or something.

This community is the best thing going for sure. I'm really thinking about changing the cars name from Appollo 13 to Gappy now---

Doug

Doug --

The "gappy" was between the bozos ears that made the original comments.

Hey -- Some times I'm actually BUSY... Just arrived in Phoenix last night -- hauling the daughters Mustystang down for her start at ASU... one down - one to go...

It's why I had to cancel PT... well, that and... the motor for the Nomad is on a stand (not between frame rails).

I told this story to a guy just the other day.... and I'll NEVER forget the lesson. He had a Camaro (the Wounded Warriors Camaro, actually a very nice car with some cool mods...) on Powerblock and he was criticizing some aspects and pointing out things he wished he had done differently; comparing it to the ring brothers "Afterburner" that was staged in the warehouse waiting for it's appearance and interview with Courtney. We had a great discussion about this very topic, and I told him my story and the lesson I learned.

I was at a Carlisle show quite a few years ago, walking the show field and looking. I stalled at a car and looked it over, seeing some stuff that I didn't completely agree with, and that could have been improved IE- panel gaps, etc.... No car is perfect and I wasn't about to say anything out loud, but the guy that built the car was beside me before I knew it, and started talking to me about it, and was very proud. He was paraplegic, and in a chair, and had done everything on the car himself, and with the help of some buddies, but had his hands (and sweat) in every aspect. It totally humbled me and made me embarrassed for even thinking what I had without knowing the full story. I was So glad that nobody heard my thoughts, as I had NO right to judge anybody's workmanship, especially not having known the full story or the circumstances behind the build. I'll never again comment negatively on someone else's work, especially in public, or quietly off to the side to show off for friends...

Everyone's work deserves recognition, and everyone has their own curve when it comes to skills, and every car is a build-in-progress, and never really "finished". I think these guys showed their true nature in slamming somebody's car publicly... and I'm personally very glad I learned my lesson the way I did. It doesn't change the way a car is built, but it totally eliminates the chance to talk with somebody about their car, what their goal is, where the strengths of the build are, and what stage of completion the vehicle is actually in... These guys blew a great opportunity to meet a genuine gearhead with alot of cred... I don't mean to get " high and mighty" on anybody, quite the opposite, I just wanted to tell my story and how I was shamed into changing my perspective.... I'll keep that experience in the back of my mind for the rest of my days.

Happy Memorial Day Everyone, Thanks to the men and women in uniform, fast and present.

KT.

That really puts it in perspective KT. We all have different levels of expectation and experience. I can appreciate cars on many levels. I can't help myself when I see a hack job but usually keep my mouth shut. I don't want to be that guy. I have to add that every dog has their day. We've all been in a bad mood or struggled with a decent attitude. I usually try to give people the benefit of the doubt once. :unibrow: I like Mario's response. Don't take it personal, just ask to see his car. 9 out of 10 times it's a Monday morning quarterback.

Honestly I will admit that I'm one of the nit-picking a$$holes, but usually it's the cars that supposedly were done by big name shops with tons of $$ invested, not a budget build cars, some people may never understand my way of thinking, but if you actually pay a professional to get a job done and the job does not appear to be done by a pro, expect my nit-picking .

I simply can not comprehend when someone spends 10's of thousands of $$ on parts, remove majority of the parts before paint and leave few brackets,cables,wiring harness,brake booster and hoses everything with paint, then drops in $20k all polished and chromed out motor, turbo,e.t.c. It only takes few extra hours to remove them before paint ,clean and install after the paint work is done, here is a prime example

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...012/014-21.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...012/005-20.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...012/011-19.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...012/016-16.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a..._012/029-4.jpg

I see this kind of stuff all the time, I mean how hard is it to remove few brake lines,unbolt few brackets,remove couple wires? You spend weeks ,months and years building a car, few hours extra making sure everything is removed, cleaned and re-installed will not kill you. I hope you guys see where I'm coming from. I just like seeing cars that were done right, not half-assed, that's all:cheers:

I love Mario's approach, it's the best defense in situations where someone is ripping on your car, I applaud when someone spends alot of $$ and sweat into their car and drives it like it's meant to be. DFRESH, paint chips and dings are nothing more than battle wounds

Dude---great stuff right there----I just read this to my wife Cassie---(Her response was "Wow--what a great message---A car guy said that?" LOL

Thanks for sharing that brother---that really does put it all into perspective. I really appreciate what you said regarding missing out on the opportunity to meet a potential gear head--that is a great observation and very true.

Doug

yeah kt you did put it rite.

I forgot to say in my previous post that KT's story will definitely will make you think twice before ripping on someone's car,and I speak to myself

Oh to go back to the days when panel gap and paint quality did not matter... I just loved EVERY car, Those were much simpler and cheaper days.

Something must have brought them to your car, whether it be stance, color, etc. If those guys know about fit and finish then be honored they even noticed your car. See it's all about perspective.