custom spindles?
 

anybody got any expierince with custom fabbed speedway style spindles? i have been kickin the idea around, they are cheap, built to my specs, and with a forged alum hub/rotor carrier...... i can use whatever size brakes i want.

the other option is a set of one off milled out alum uprights with C5 bearing carriers, obviously this is waaaaaaaaay more money, and im really not sure if its a better way to go.

any insite would be great...thanks

I have a set designed and ready to be ordered. My hesitation is replacement should the unexpected happen. It would suck to have a month to get a replacement spindle.

Now this sounds very interesting. I'm curious to know just how "custom" you can get. Are the steering arms part of the spindle or bolt on? What about disc brake caliper mounting? Can they be machined to accept any type of balljoint, hub, etc? One thing I'd like to do is eliminate the 1" wheel adapters I'm using. It looks like I could have a custom made spindle with a 1" additional offset. Or is that a bad idea?

I can dictate the height, pin drop, pin type, steering arm height and length, amount of hub set back (there you go Keith), and KPI. It helps to know how to read an analysis and obviously have access to one. You have to provide them with every single spec down to the tenth of an inch.

Can I just send them my B-body spindle and have them make me a new spindle that fixes all the problems?? :)

HAHAHAHA...no.

So where can I find the dimensions of the B-body spindle? Seems like that would be a good place to start. Then make the changes I want instead of starting from scratch. Pin location and steering arm would be the only things I'd change.

As I understand it, the ATS spindles address many, if not most of the B-Body spindle issues. They also will be making a set for those of us who already have the B-Body mod done so we won't have to change ball joints. :D

Shiny Side Up!
Bill
'72 442 "Inamorata"

Go grab another one at the wrecker and start making some measurements. You may also want to change KPI.

The ATS spindle is a better alternative to the "B" spindle but Speedway spindles are much better. Remember that the AFX was not designed for the "A" body, it was designed for the "F" body which has a different set of needs. It just so happens to work pretty good on the "A" body as well, but not perfect by any means.

Reduce the angle?

What would a pair of custom-made spindles cost? Would it be possible to get the cost down if someone (that'd be you Dennis ;) ) were to get a "group purchase" together of the optimal A-body spindle design?

Dennis, I thought the "A" and "F" spindles were interchangable except for the bolt on steering arms. Did i miss something or did someone tell me wrong.

Mike

Keith, KPI needs to be increased. Around 11* would work well to reduce scrub radius.

Derek, I already tried that, even at 1000 lot orders the price is still the same. The logic is that they are the only ones offering that service so there is no competition for you to shop at. They also mentioned that stay busy year round building and the process is the same for each, no timesavings by batch building.

Mike, the "A" and "F" spindles are interchangeable but the aspects that ATS changed were advantageous to the "F" body while only marginally helped the "A" body. They are better than "B" spindles but again, there are better options.

Gottcha. I thought they were the same, but did not consider the changes made for the ATS spindle.

Mike

wow, this topic really took off...thats what i get for goin to work i guess :D

i actually decided to build my own as per the software specs, my jig parts should be back from the machinist this week, all the spindle parts should be in begining of next week, except for the steering arms, which will be made by the same guy making the jig.

obviously this isnt for the faint of heart, in fact i probably wont even be final welding them, leave that to a real welder :) wonder how busy matt is :unibrow:

but my reasoning was simply time frame, and having a spare set made if needed, the turn around time for custom fabbed spindles sucks, and should you want or need a replacement...you are S.O.L.

i will make sure to post pics during the process

Exactly the reason I am going to compromise and run the Coleman spindles. They are a regualr stocking item and I can have another one in a day if need be. The turn around on the custom designed peices are a few weeks at best. They also use off the shelf (OEM) bearings, seals, and hubs...sort of.

Who sells coleman spindles and would these be compatible with coleman brakes I assume?

www.colemanracing.com or www.stockcarproducts.com

Are you talking about one of these:

http://www.colemanracing.com/catalog...p?cPath=31_559


Which off the shelf ones are you going to get? Which hubs and bearings do they use? Which suspension analysis are you using to zero in on your geometry? Sorry for all the questions, but this might be something I'd like to do for my 2nd gen f-body.

So let me see if I understand this correctly. By increasing KPI, the intersection of the imaginary line drawn through the upper and lower balljoints and the tire contact patch would move outward closer to the center of the contact patch? Or another way to visualize it, the upper balljoint would move in closer to the vehicle with the snout in the same horizontal position?

You got it. Of course, you could move the lower ball joint outward as well. Whether you could move the upper ball joint inward enough with just alignment, I don't know - so you might need custom upper control arms.

yes, those are the basic style of spindle, dennis will have to chime in on which one he is gonna run. mine use a GN style snout, and a winters forged hub with built in rotor carrier. i looked at all the different options to see if i could use an off shelf item, but nothin fits my 1 off design even close, so after researching the build process, i decided to build my own.

i have more time and money into my modular jig than expected, but i can build my spindles and make design changes if needed in no time flat.

I am running the Impala 9" version. It uses a full size ball joint taper and full size wheel bearings/seals. For a budget hub I am going to cut off the rotor hat from a pair of full size rotors and machine the hub OD to fit a generic rotor hat.

Thanks Dennis. I can see why you'd choose that set of options. I've tried to find engineering drawings for those spindles - have you found any? King pin angle, king pin height, steering arm length and offset, etc?

Anything else?

Thanks!

Scott

This is on my 67 fastback........

where did those come from? i havent seen any with the lower taper as part of the steering arm that bolts to the upright. btw, 8 piston calipers :wow:

They look exactly like mine.

Are you running the offset length steering arms Sideoiler?

nevermind.... had my head up my a$$ again, i was thinkin wide 5 style fabbed spindles where the lower taper and steering arm is welded into the upright.



so if i was to use the impala style spindle with gn snout, then the winters hubs would work..... right?

im thinkin i could possibly run the off the shelf impala spindle, and adjust the r.c. with balljoints to get back to the same point as with custom spindle pin height.

I heard back from Coleman this morning. Make sure to order your steering arms both for the left side; one front steer and one rear steer. This way they will be the same length and the left side is shorter maintaining the stering ratio and turning radius.

ordering them today, and will still be faster than building my own, thanks for the steering arm info.

Can you guys give us some part# and prices also will this be conparable to CS&C or ?
What brakes can you run?
Thanks,

I'll have final numbers very soon as to how well it looks on paper, initial inputs look like it will best just about anything on the market for "A" bodies. I am going to hold off on listing a complete list of parts as I still run into snafus (see the steering arm mentioned above). Once it's complete I'll have a breakdown for all.

As for brakes, they are designed for a Wilwood style caliper with a floating rotor however due to the modular design you could adapt any brakes you wanted.

Thanks.

Looking foward to the final release of info.

I've been trying to figure out what ball joints work with that spindle. The ones Coleman calls out are different than what I have. It looks like I should be fine with my lower ball joints becuase they have the same taper but I'll need to replace the uppers. I was most concerned about the lowers.

I'm doing what you're gonna do for hubs. I got mine off a '85 Caprice which is considered full size but I'm not sure if they'll work with the Coleman spindle. Any idea? The only other major consideration would be the steering arm and outer tie rod clearing my wheels. With a 2.5" pin drop, it doesn't look good.

Denny,

I was wondering how you measured the 2.5" pin drop? My "A" spindle measures 2" from the bottom of the ball joint boss to the pin centerline. If the Coleman spindle is 3.75", that seems like a 1.75" drop to me. Am I missing something?

The LBJ taper depends upon the steering arm used. They have two different variations, one is for the full size GM ball joint, the other is for a Mopar style BJ. They also offer ball joint "sleeves" so you can make or modify your ownlower control arms (uppers too, for that matter).

When Den gets his Impy hubs, it will be a good idea to compare the wheel mounting difference with their big ole' aluminum hub (like the one shown in the pic with the AMG brakes) that has an integral rotor mount. Also a good thing to see if the hub od (where it fits into the wheel register) is too big for a typical wheel, my guess is that Den's approach to modifying a stock hub will be far less painful for most folks going this direction.

By the way, if you are really 'core, Coleman will sell you just the pin, you can make your own spindle. But, if you aren't an ME and pro fabricator, I'd pass, this is a HIGHLY stressed suspension piece. Go get 'em Den, I am really interested in how the geometry works out.

Mark

Getting closer, still going back and forth with Coleman getting the right steering arms.

Keith, I'll re-measure the pin heights tomorrow for you. Yes, the Caprice hubs will work.

Ah ha. Now it's getting clearer. And raises another concern. With the balljoint going in the steering arm and the steering arm being bolted to the upright vs. cast or forged in, is that really safe for a street driven car? Seems like an awful lot of load on the steering arm to me.