TKO 600 Modifications
 

I'm not happy with my 1-2 shift. It's notchy as hell and killing my 0-60. Has anyone had there tko modified by Liberty gear or similar and been happy with the results? How about a different shifter? I'm sure the trans is set up correct.

A shifter helps a bit, you get ride of the plastic bushings in the original shift and get steel ones snugs it up a bit.

Todd.....

I have heard - (have no personal experience with this) - that shift quality will be really degraded if your tranny fluid is TOO SLIPPERY.... sounds crazy -- but some of these trannys have a syncro issue that causes shifting problems if you're using synthetics or the wrong fluid type etc.

I had quite the long talk with the Detroit locker people at a show they had a booth in -- about using synthetics with posi units... and they're saying DO NOT USE THEM IN THEIR REARENDS... just use 90wt.

So just thinking the old "keep it simple" when looking for an issue and start out with the little things first.

I'm running synchromesh as designed. I haven't heard many complaining about the 1-2 shift. The new engine redlines at 6800 and I found 2-3 shift to grind a few times at El Toro as well in the 0-100-0 They are known for high rpm shifting problems as well. Maybe I can just get the new guts and swap them out. A t56 magnum would be optimal but I'd have to slice up the tunnel and it just wouldn't be economical.

Shift lower - problem solved...:rofl:

Seems you're suffering from "mid plate" tolerance issues....

Call Wally --- he'll 'splain it to ya!

http://www.promotionpowertrain.com/

Todd, you might be a good candidate for that new RS600 trans coming out this fall... assuming the 1-2 shift isn't still an issue. They say similarities to the TKO but zero cutting required for install. I think you saw that thread on team camaro.

ive had this issue in a fwd car with big power.. and it was solved by running AFT fluid in the manual tranny .. quick, crisp shifts.... and if a t5 can run on ATF then so can your tko

Maybe these guys can give you some info , there's a guy by the name of Grey, the company is the Driven Man. Ive talked to him a few times, nice guy. They have an option for the TKO-600 its called the extreme 600. Perhaps they adress some of the issues your having.

http://www.americanpowertrain.com/pop-600Extreme.html

Rich

I had a conversation with Brad at Liberty gear today. They will tear it apart and do all their magic to it for about $500. It's about half price if I buy the parts and do it myself. Different synchros, forks, polished shafts, etc. The real problem is it's a 6 week wait right now. I want to run at Buttonwillow on September 25th and don't want to be out of commission that long in the fall. More than likely a winter mod unless I decide to tackle the project. That or I'll just have Rodger at Ironworks cut up my baby to fit a 56 magnum. :lol:

Cut to cure!


:rofl: :rofl: :woot:

Thanks for the name. I'm having the same issues. I know the TKO is not supposed to be spun past 6,500 but man my motor loves that area. I've never been real happy with any of my shifting so I'm hoping these guys could fix me up. I wish I would have known a year back I would have gotten a T56. $500.00 is not bad at all though...Thanks again. if i get it pulled out and shipped to them i will give you a full report

I'd appreciate that. I haven't decided what I'm doing. I'll just keep driving until I do.

If we agree on Monday to some terms Ill try and start tearing into it again. It's been hot out so Im not in desperate need to have my car every weekend..Stay tuned..

Kind of sucks because I just put in a Mcleod twin disk thinking my OE clutch wasnt up to snuff. All in the name of hot rodding I guess..

Stay tuned

Todd,

When I ordered the TKO600 Extreme from Grey at American Powertrain, I called the Tremec Tech who does the modifications. Apparently there is a lot to do to make the 600 shift well above 6500 RPM -- polished syncros, hardened shift forks with brass pads, hand fitting of components, etc. Wish I could tell you how it works, but its still in the box. I do, however, have a new billet shifter from American Powertrain that you are welcome to try. I should be back in Vegas next week.

Pappy

Doesn't that shifter help with the 2-3 shift? People use that and a Twist Machine shifter and seam to like it but still not sure if really helps with banging gears..There is times when I shift near redline which is about 7100 and I forget that tran's is not meant for it and I will feal the teeth grab..

Jim at Hurst driveline said that Tremec might come out with Magnum style TKO if there is enough demand.

Does a std T56 have these issues?

The shifter might smooth things out a little by eliminatiing some slop (notice the adjustable throw stops), but I doubt it would do much to overcome the basic issues that are internal -- sycronizers and shift fork flex. I suspect that some (most) of the modifications to the TKO 600 Extreme are just "blueprinting" and polishing, much like you do to the internals of a good rear end. I bought the transmission for the hardened shafts and upgraded input shaft for the extra torque capacity. I opted for the 600 vice a T-56 to get the .82 fifth gear for road racing. I didn't want or need the deep ratio drops of the T56's 5th and 6th gears.

Pappy

Thanks for the offer Pappy. The 1-2 shift is my biggest gripe. It's impossible to shift it quick. The 2-3 grind above 6500 ain't to much fun either but I don't really give a **** until it breaks. :rofl: As long as it goes in... To be honest I only shift above 6500 when I'm racing and have no idea what rpm I'm running. Normal shifts are in the 6200-6500 range. $500 seems reasonable if the results are worth the trouble and funds.

$250 sounds damn reasonable for just the parts since mine is still out, but does it sound like a complicated job that they should be doing?

I haven't even looked into the complexity of the change. I don't know if any press work or special tools are needed.

Hey Todd
 

Hope you are doing well. If I am not mistaken DSE is running a TKO and they put a cooler on it to help the shifts. I asked Kyle about it and he said when the fluid got hot it would not shift well. I believe it cured his problem. May be worth a phone call.

Todd... I talked to Richard Johnson from American Powertrain at GOODGUYS this weekend.. The new version of the T-56 does not need any tunnel mods .But you have the lower sub bushing mounts correct????

Hey Payton, I'm doing great. How are you man? It shifts the same cold and hot.

Mario, I do have the 1/2 height body bushings. The tunnel would need surgery. It'll have to work for now, I just want to enjoy the car as much as possible. Versus working on it. I'm a twice baked potato.:unibrow:

If you want a good laugh -- try driving my new 32 Ford -- T56 --- and I think the rear gears are 3:08s.... with tall tires.... LOL

6th is about 90 @ 1800 rpm

Dropped it at Steves Auto Restoration today -- we'll be doing a few "mods"....:unibrow:

A little update Todd, I put in a Pro5.0 shifter a month ago and while I really liked it I still wasnt happy, so I'm dealing with AMP performance which is dealing with Liberty gear..Im having it D-ringed and blocked...No more synchro's. He said they sound a little more noisy durings shifts but you can beat the living crap out of them..Since AMP stocks most of the parts my down time will be less then 4 weeks..Still sucks but Im tired of dealing with it and dont want a whole new trans and loose my behind on selling this one...

I am having issues with my RAM hydro bearing, the last one I put lasted me a week..so that will be another issue to address..I guess I should ask what bearing are you running?

Cool Chuck, let me know how it works out. I'm running a mechanical clutch with some type of standard throwout bearing. I think it's the original bearing that came with the Classic Chevy kit. Even with my McLeod twin disc RXT, the pedal pressure is reasonable.

Hmm...Jim at Hurst think's I might have better luck with a Mcloed bearing, but Im determined to use this one since its so simple...

Anyways, Ill keep you posted!

are you guys with issues running an aluminum or steel flywheel? my understanding is that the syncros may not being doing enough during the 1-2 shift. since an aluminum fly slows down much quicker, im wondering if it would help.

i tried calling liberty last week and didnt get a call back. i figure i'll wait a few more months to decide what i want to do. its hard to spend the money without ever driving it, but i dont want to pull the tranny once its together. plus, libertys prices have gone up a bunch in the past couple years and will only go up from here.

I don't want anything to do with an aluminum flywheel. I'm picky but the more I talk to people the more I hear the same complaint.

anybody tried the newer tremec shifter? i picked one up from kiesler, and gene said he had pretty positive results so far. $43 shipped to my door. i'll either wait for the magnum tko or see what results you guys get from the liberty fix before i make my final decision.

also todd, without going through your frigging 10,001 pages, what flywheel did you end up with. and are you running the rst or the rxt?

Tim

for those that find this thread with a search, i called liberty today and here is what i found out;

first, you can buy their upgraded tko600 for 2375+ shipping, or you can pay $500 to have yours upgraded plus shipping both ways. he said they obviously make money on the tko purchase, so the profit offsets the cost of the upgrades if you buy from them. you can also pull yours apart and ship the pieces back, and have everything done in their 2375 package (minus the front bearing) for $68. thats right, $68. you have to ship your case to have the front bearing done, and thats around $125 by itself.

so, now the problems and what youre paying to have fixed. first, he said that the linkage has a detent that keeps the 2nd gear in place and keeps it from moving too far with the 2-3 shift. the speed of the shift, plus the direction the gear is moving in relation to the cars movement builds up some momentum that the stock (weak) spring and the shallow detent cant overcome. the fix is $13. 10 for the rail mod and 3 for the new spring.

second, the shift forks ends are tapered too much and need to be built up. they weld to the end and profile it correctly. fix is $25 but you wont get your shift fork back. they have a box of premodded forks and you get one out of the box whether yours was new or old.

third, gear cones. there isnt enough friction to enable the syncros to do their job fast enough. they "scuff" up the surface which in turn creates more friction. fix, 10 for ea, 2,3,4. they also have another option which places cf on the friction surface and costs $50 per gear, but the benefits arent much improved over the scuff.

you can also have your gears polished. i didnt get a price, but its a $250 option on their 2375 trans. doesnt help with the shift, but will get you a free 5-10 hp, cooler running temp and a little more mpg.

i asked about doing it myself, and was told that if you feel comfortable around engines, you can diy. there are some bearings that need to be packed, but otherwise its just torque specs and a reassembly diagram.

i suggest you guys call and listen to what they have to say. my explanations may be off since im new to all this and it was a lot to absorb. but for the money i think its a no brainer.

Good info Tim. I am giving these guys a call tomorrow.

So Todd.... what are you thinking of doing with your TKO now?

I totally meant to ask you in Pahrump.. how did it shift at high rpm there?

I'm going to have mine modified eventually. I just haven't talked my lazy ass into pulling it out. I have less problems with high rpm shifts than a do with a notchy 1-2 shift or 3-2.

flash, i sent you a pm back but i figured i would post part of it. liberty changed the price on their site to 2499 for the mods. this includes the upgraded 2-3-4 carbon fiber facing which was a 50ea upgrade over the 2375 price. i havent called them, but i dont see why they wouldnt have the old pricing for the original package.

and todd, just get it done so we have a reliable guinea pig.:thumbsup:

Tim

I'm ready for someone else to be the guinea pig around here..:unibrow:

Hang in there boys... I just might be the guinea pig on this one. I'll know for sure very soon.

Im still waiting..lol Lets just say if your going to send it to Liberty plan on having your car down for awhile...I think I sent the gears back to them the second week of October...

We did however forgot to send out second gear. That was flown out last week so hopefully I will have a fully non synchro'd noisy shifting trans in my car very soon...

Tim--

Actually, on the front page of their site they do list the following:

--------------------------------
UPGRADED-SYNCHRONIZED TREMEC TKO600 $2375.00
INCLUDES
Bronze Shift Fork Pads
Surface Enhancement* Processed Hubs & Sliders
Internal Shift Linkage Upgrade
Liberty's Exclusive Threaded Front Cluster Bearing Support **
Carbon Fiber Blocking Rings 2nd, 3rd & 4th Gear

**Liberty's Exclusive Threaded Front Cluster Bearing Support eliminates oil leakage from the front cap and more importantly it supports the front cluster bearing preventing the cluster shaft from improper movement. Since the stock cap is only held in place by the o-ring, it can allow the cluster shaft to move and alter shimming. This movement decreases the overall integrity of the transmission. Liberty's Exclusive Threaded Front Cluster Bearing Support corrects all of the problems associated with the stock cap.

------------------------------

This is what I am thinking of trying out.

Chuck -- good to know -- what upgrades did you get?