LS7 427 or ZL1 427??
 

I am at a crossroads of sorts with what to do about the power plant my 69 Camaro. As I get closer to completion on the bodywork, the last piece of the puzzle, the motor, needs to be addressed. I have a carb'd stock 396 in the car currently. I have been debating about going to a new GM ZL-1 based 489 or go to a MAST Motorsports LS7 swap. The ZL-1 would be a straight change over for me into my current set-up. The LS7 would need more supporting mods to make it a viable choice. Both would be around the same hp. Any input?

Ls Ls Ls Ls!!!!

ls7!!:thumbsup:

Paul

I have several ZL1's and they are cool but if you want to really enjoy your car go thru the extra trouble and switch over to LS. No more overheating, better mileage, no oil leaks and on and on and on.

No way would I consider a big block for any application under 650HP. I say 650 Hp because once you cross that HP threshold, you get into aftermarket LS blacks / heads, and at that point things get expensive. Under 650HP, I would do a LS motor but would not mess with the dry sump LS7. For a LOT less money you can do a wet sump LS3 based motor, make the same power and save a ton of plumbing and expense. For just the cost of the LS7 engine you can do a wet sum based 600HP motor including all the goodies needed to install it and make it run.

I love old school but If I was to do it again It would be LS all the way.

I agree with Frank, save a boat load of cash and do a simple Ls3 setup and spend the money elsewhere.

My ZL-1 doesn't leak or overheat. I'd like to inject mine someday. Not sure that will happen as I'm tired of spending money on my car. I'd rather spend money using it.

The real question comes down to what you intend to do with the car and what suits your budget and taste.

Thanks Frank,
That's exactly what MAST Motorsports does with their LS7 427SS package. They convert to a wet sump to simplify the swap.

http://www.mastmotorsports.com/2010/...ew.php?cat=Hot Rod Muscle Car Handbuilt N/A&id=79

LS7 427 SS 650HP
Specs:
Type: LS7 7.0L
Displacement: 427 Cubic Inches
Compression Ratio: 11.4:1
Bore x Stroke: 4.125 x 4.000
Rev Limit: 7250 RPM
Crank: Callies Forged
Rods: Callies H-Beam
Pistons: Mahle Motorsports
Cam: Mast Custom 3-Bolt Core Cam
Heads: Mast CNC LS7 Heads
Intake: GMPP LS7 Intake
Valve Springs: Mast Premium Nitrided Dual Springs
LS7 Aluminum Block
Plateau Honed to 4.125
True Surfaced Deck
Engine Block Debured
Blueprinted Shortblock
ACL Rod and Crank Bearings
Callies Forged 4.000” Stroked Crankshaft
Callies Forged H-Beam Connecting Rods
Custom Mahle Motorsports Pistons
Mast Motorsports CNC LS7 Cylinder Heads
ARP Head Bolts
ARP Main Studs
Cometic Headgaskets
Mast 3 bolt Core Custom Hydraulic Roller Cam
GMPP Cadillac Hydraulic Roller Lifters
Mast Black Label Pushrods
Mast Premium Nitrided Dual Springs
Mast Hollow Stem Intake Valves
Mast Exhaust Valves
Titanium Retainers
Machined Locks
M-90 Calibrated ECM
Main Wiring Harness
Dash Harness
Air Mass Harness
Trans Harness
EGO Harness
Bosch EGO Sensor
Fuel Pump Harness
Fan Harness
LS7 Intake Manifold
GM 2010’ 90mm DBW Throttle Body
Bosch Dead Headed Fuel Rail
Bosch LS7 Fuel Injectors
Mast 8 Layer Air Filter with IAT Bung
Intake Air Temperature Sensor 560-2218 | info@
Crankshaft Position Sensor
Camshaft Position Sensor
Oil Pressure Sensor
Oil Temperature Sensor
Engine Coolant Temperature
Engine Knock Sensors
Manifold Air Pressure Sensor
Ignition Coils
Spark Plugs
Plug Wires
GM Foot Pedal
GM Starter
GM Oil Filter
Mobile 1 Synthetic Oil
Engine Break in Oil Additive
Your choice of F-Body, Y-Body, or Truck Water Pump,
Balancer, and Oil Pan
Runs on Premium 91-93 Octane

If you want to go al bbc, why not get the Brodix block?

It appears it will more easily support extra cubic inches . At least go 540 if you're going to buy a rotating assembly anyways.

Weight, the brodix block is 60-70lbs heavier.

I don't even know why you asked this question. :_paranoid LOL!! LS all the way baby!!

Need one more vote for LS? Okay; LSX all the way!!!!!

I'd vote LS, but I am an LS guy not a BBC guy.

Power levels may be similar but you will be happier in the LS when you are driving past the BBC guys at the gas pumps.

ls hands down

I suppose the next question is whether to stay with my turbo 400 if I went the LS route, or if its even a possibility.

You're kidding right...:lol:

:lol: :lol:

C'mon guys....I have to do my diligence and investigate everything here.;)

Old, but just wanted to ad.

Summit list the Brodix block as 142 lbs.

ZL1 shows 110 lbs.

Don't believe everything you read, especially online. :unibrow:

I called Brodix, and was told the standard deck height BBC block weighs 130lbs.

So the summit weight must include whatever container they ship it in.

It must be the Dart block that weighs in at 160-170...

LS7:unibrow:

Nope 140lbs either race or Big M.

Big M:
http://www.dartheads.com/products/en...ne-blocks.html

Race:
http://www.dartheads.com/products/en...all-block.html

Besides if its a good block that extra weight lets you build more HP before throwing things :unibrow:

Not sure how I missed this thread. I actually had the exact same question on my mind a few months ago: LS7 or ZL1. I've had my heart set on the ZL1 for years now and had planned to purchase the new GM ZL1 block as soon as I had the money, however I watched Mark Stielow get 800HP out of a supercharged LS7 block and the engine had awesome street manners. That really impressed me and gave me strong second thoughts about the ZL1 route. The new ZL1 block is rated up to 650HP by GM, so I wouldn't want to go past 700HP with that block, but then I had to ask myself, "How much horsepower do I really need?" I thought long and hard about that and realized 650HP was more than enough to kill me, so the ZL1 block had all the potential I needed. As far as street manners and gas mileage, well, I would go multiport fuel injection with either engine, so I think both would be street friendly, but of course the LS7 would probably get better gas mileage(which means jack squat to me). Somebody mentioned the ZL1 would run hotter and have oil leaks, but I have a new GM ZZ454 crate motor and that never runs hot(and it's an iron block) and has not had a single oil leak, so I don't know if that's much of a concern with all the newer gasket and seal technology and the fact that the newer ZL1 block(GM #12370850) has some improvements over the old.

So, knowing that both blocks could do I wanted in terms of horsepower and street manners, I then considered 2 things:

1. Price - Pricing out a 650HP ZL1 motor and 650HP LS7 motor came out to be just about the same. Maybe a little cheaper for the LS7 motor, but not much. Like your situation, a ZL1 would swap right in for me and no changes would be necessary, so that makes the overall price probably even.

2. Cool factor/re-sale value/etc - Since everything else was even to me, this is the factor that caused me to choose the ZL1 block. The LS7 engine is a great engine, but then there's the LS9, and then there will be the LS11 and the LS13 and it goes on and on, and then where will the LS7 engine stand? As they continue to improve technology(direct injection engines next?), I just wonder about the heritage of the LS7 motor. I have to wonder about this because this is a huge investment for me and I'm thinking very long term as this will be the final motor for this car. With the ZL1, I would never have to worry about heritage or wow factor or whatever. It's a vintage engine, it's rare, and it has historical significance for our Camaros. It's always going to be a kickass engine to own and I'll never have to worry about keeping up with the latest LS# engine block or technology or whatever. Of course, that's just my opinion only! Other people will have different scenarios and want completely different things out their engines, so my arguments here won't apply to them.

The LS7 is technically a better engine than the ZL1, but for me, and what I want out of my Camaro now and in the future, I'll take the ZL1 all day. I finally bought my ZL1 block in December thanks to that 15% Summit discount code somebody posted(thanks!!!) and it's now sitting in my garage and I look forward to building her out next year.

Good luck with your decision! Let us know what route you choose. They're both great engines, so either way, you can't lose. :thumbsup:

Alright guys, it's been a while since I did that research. :unibrow: :_paranoid

I chose the ZL-1 block over the Brodix-Dart-World for a few reasons.

GM Engineering- It's no secret that an Aluminum aftermarket block can cause problems and be high maintenence. Knowing GM endurance tested the block to THEIR standards was a huge plus. I've been very happy with my block.

Weight- It is lighter than the other blocks.(Just not as much as I thought)

Heritage-The ZL-1 is the ultimate 1969 Camaro. Clearly I don't have a real ZL-1 but it certainly doesn't hurt the value of the car.

Power and Economics- I could actually reuse a few of the parts from my first engine. :D Mainly the pistons, heads, carb, and fuel system. Going 540 meant these part wouldn't work. When I mat this thing and row through 4 gears, it's on the edge of scaring my into soiling my pants as-is. 666hp is plenty for this chassis. Sure Mark is usiing 800hp but he's clearly the best driver around. Are you?

This all being said, I can understand why people choose the LS7. Technology is a thing of beauty. Factory dry sump, fuel injection, hydraulic lifters, no leaks, gas mileage, and weight. My combo isn't radical but I do need a mechanical cam to make 666hp/641ftlbs and control the valves up to 6800 rpm on a reliable basis. I would love to have fuel injection but that ain't happening. :unibrow:

454
 

Cool factor note:

heritage / camaro / big block

And anyone can get a ls7-

Only 200 of us with the 454

injected




Reality note:

my LS1 02 ss w/ bolt on TT kit would smoke it.
and still get 24mpg w/ ac on.
I here the zl1 block is only good for 700rwhp
ls7 can do what??? a million?
and I believe you should never put a limit on your long term HP goals.

SS