If you only needed a car a couple weekend a month...
 

I have been posting time to time about my search for a new car now that I am out of NYC and in the sort of car friendly San Fran area. I have gone back and forth on the best options for a car. I narrowed it down a bit, but I will let you guys add some input.

Background - I can walk to work, and work Sunday - Sunday most weeks (its a blast I tell you!). So I would only use the car for fun on random free weekends. But would like to be able to take long trips down coast, potential to Las Vegas, ect ect.

1. Boring but Safe - New 3 Series/A4/C-Class/CTS (dont have to worry about maintenance, could do a low mileage lease, cheapest insurance option).

2. More Fun - Used E46 M3, S4, RS4, Cayman, 993 (These options push my budget for sure, but I am young and dumb. Would be fun and potential track day/autocross cars. Insurance on these is also outrageous at an average of $4500 a year with only 5k miles. And any major maintenance of repair would be painful (I understand you pay to play and dont buy it if you can't fix it)

3. Bring Her West - The Camaro is in storage in CT right now (its much cheaper to store where she is vs. out here). I love the idea of having this be my weekend cruiser, but I need more reliability/comfort. There are some electrical/mechanical gremlins that would make it not so fun as my only car. So I would need to invest in some upgrades. (Brakes, all new harnesses, potentially an engine/transmission upgrade - obviously this is PT site, so could go to any level)

Storing/Insuring/Upkeeping two cars out here might be a bit much, which is why if I got with option 1 or 2 I would keep the Camaro east for the time being. The question on option 3 would be what type of budget do you think it would take to take a 4 wheel drum/350 small block - Turbo 350, into something more reliabile. Since restoration the car only has 6k miles on it though!

Finally - I am sure many of you are thinking "just buy a honda civic and have the Camaro", and thats practical. But, like I said, I am 24, single, finally debt free from college and want something fun!

Thanks!

First off "just buy a Civic" would NEVER come out of my mouth

The Camaro seems like a total obvious choice to me. You say that you don't really need a car and that it would primarily only be for weekend fun, so why worry too much about a few "gremlins" if it's a car that's not "needed"?

Financially it looks like the smart choice too. You're not paying for storage back east, your insurance isn't going to kill you like with the other cars, any needed repairs will be reasonable on the pocket and you'll get to enjoy your car. You could probably do all your needed upgrades for the price you said the insurance would cost you, for just one year, on one of the other cars

When I was 24, I had three sports cars and probably 50% of my income just went to insurance, car payments and upkeep but it was all worth it to me, and not once did I think that buying an import was "the right thing to do"

Just my opinion, probably not a good one, but that's what I would do.

Bring the Camaro out west. It seems like you have the budget to enjoy a nicer (luxury) vehicle so why not put that money into the 69 and just enjoy that. Besides, there are plenty of members out here on the west coast you could hook up with. Not to mention events like RTTC or open track days you could beat the 69 on.

Newer muscle/sports car maybe, 98 or newer F body, 04-06 GTO, Pontiac G8 GT, 04-08 CTS-V. Insurance would be higher then Choice A but lower than Choice B and more practical than Choice C.

Bring her West. Take the money drop in a stock LS2 add some disc brakes and fix the electrical issues. It would be a lot more fun and enjoyable in the end.

Let me know when you get to Vegas.

:captain:

Take the money you would spend on a new/newer car and send the Camaro to a reputable shop. Fix the gremlins, make some small upgrades, discs, maybe an LS motor, maybe just drop fuel injection on the existing motor. In the end, it would be much cheaper than a monthly car payment.

Crap, this same situation is what led me to buy my car in the first place! I could walk to work as well. I bailed on the car payment, bought a beater Jeep CJ7 for $1500 bucks (With a hard top for the winter. This is Ohio boys.) and then bought a 69 Camaro convertible for the weekends. The wife and I loved cruising around in that car. Looking at the car now, painted, etc, we laugh about buying a lawn mower in it and tying the trunk down with twine!

This is the perfect chance to have the best of both worlds. A cool car when you need it and a cool car that doesn't have to be driven much. To me, the decision is easy.


Darren

Fix the Camaro.... but have it done in a shop in Cali where you can get to so you can enjoy the thrash. There are tons of people right here that can guide you to a decent shop.

Don't go overboard on her... just make it reliable and comfortable. This is not rocket science. Many of us have "old cars" that we can and do drive anywhere any time.

DON'T go for patches -- as in patching up the 50 year old electrical harness. Have 'em rip it all out and put in brand new. It's cheaper and easier and works correctly when you're done spending the $$

Nothing would be sweeter than cruising up to St. Helena - or Infineon Raceway - then over to douse the dust with some vine juice - than doing it in a Camaro.

BTW -- You never once mentioned leasing a NEW Camaro.... and that would be a nice choice once they begin to deliver the drop top versions. But my money would go into a classic. :cheers: :woot:

The Camaro is an investment and anything else will be a depreciating interest all around otherwise you wouldn't own it to begin with.

Drive it everywhere and just let the insurance worry about the other stuff.

You will enjoy driving so much more and the experiences will go beyond what the other cars will ever give you.

:cheers:

deleted dup...

Cureent results:

11 for the Camaro, 1 each for options one and two. Whaddya 'spect? This is Lat-G, afterall!

I voted number 2. You're young, I'm not sure how long you'll be in SF, but a mid 90's low mileage 993 would be a great option for those SF weekends. You could drive it anywhere/anytime and have a ball with it, plus at 24 it wouldn't hurt w the ladies. As time rolls on and you get ahead on $$$, bring the Camaro out here and now you'd have two cool options..

Just my .02.

Thanks guys! I am obviously not surprised by the voting haha.

Everything is brand new, the restoration was bottom up, no shortcuts - but there is something up with the ignition/electronics/starter. Thats my biggest reliability issue - sometimes it just wont start. Been to the shop 5 times for this, and towed home countless more.

There are two parts to that. A: not sure I want two Camaros. B: Leasing is not practical for US cars like that or a Mustang vs. a luxury car. The depreciation rate factored into the pricing is too high and you end up paying more for a Camaro then for a fully loaded CTS. C: Buying new would put it in the running with the low APR's out there, but I dont want a big car payment after killing my student loans.

That would be the plan - and I know people hate the "how much question" But give or take 5k, whats ballpark on that?

Part of why option A is on there is if anyone comes to visit me, i could just give them my car to have while I am at work. Guess a few weeks a year of ZipCar might take care of that.

Yup, 993 was very high on my list. I dont fit in them stock haha, but could move the seat ect. Prices are all across the map depending on options and mileage. My experience with owning the Camaro is why I am hesitant. Breaking things on our muscle cars sucks, but parts are easy, cheap, and alot we can do ourselves. I'd be more concerned about maintenance on a Porsche of M3 option. Id probably pay the premium of getting one from a dealer vs. private just for an extended warranty.

Keep it coming, thanks guys.

Explain in detail what happens when "it won't start"....

I could hijack my own threat with this.

Problem - Driving around, stop for anything, turn off car - wont restart (no click, just dead battery). This is not heat because I can go 5 minutes down the road and have it happen, or go 3 hours on the highway and have it not happen. I have a volt gauge and when I look before turning off, its at full power. Lets say I take it out for a Saturday drive. I can stop 15 times and no problem, but the 16th...done for. My new routine is just never turning the car off. When I get low on gas I stop on the way home at the nearest place to my storage, and cross my fingers.

Solutions - sometimes waiting a few minutes and it will start. Sometimes I wait an hour and it won't. Sometimes jumping it works! I keep a battery charger with me, but sometimes that doesn't do it. I have had it sit for an hour, not start...get towed home, and fire up as soon as its off the tow truck!

Attempted Fixed - first time it went in for this, shop thought it was neutral safety switch on the transmission. Fixed it. Didn't solve the problem. While the battery, cables, alternator and starter are all brand new with the rebuild I have replaced the starter, battery and cables. The electric harnesses are brand new as well. The steering column for the key, not new actually. The ignition is a stock system.

I have posted a few threads on here about it and have tried many of the comments to no avail. It is hard to diagnose as well because you cannot make it happen. My shop has taken the car around and tried to replcate it, nothing...then I pick the car up and it happens on my way home! She has a mind of her own!

You replaced everything EXCEPT the ignition switch.....

I'd pull the switch out - get a volt/ohm meter - do a continuity check between the terminals that switch the starter motor -- you can sit and click the switch a zillion times watching (or like my Fluke - LISTEN) for it to make contact.... If it skips once in awhile - replace the switch. Don't get a chinese version! Step up and get a GM replacement or equivalent. :cheers:

Somebody must have mentioned this before, but this sounds like the classic GM starter heat soak problem. If you have an original style GM starter, and long tube headers, and no heat wrap on the starter, this problem is virtually guaranteed to happen. Lots of stop and go traffic, with no air flow under the car, and a ton of radiant heat from the headers, bakes the starter. The starter then won't work until it cools down, whereupon it mysteriously works again. Drives you crazy - I know from experience.

The newer-style mini starters are less susceptible to this problem, but in any case I've concluded you should never run long tube headers or other exhaust near the starter without protecting it with heat wrap (those DEI starter heat blankets, or similar).

I had a similar problem with my 67 Camaro for 3 years or so. At first when I bought the car I figured heat soak from the headers. So I tried the usual remedies. Over the next couple years it continued through a couple battteries, starters,cables, another ignition switch, etc. After toting a meter around with me (7 volts at starter) and getting fed up to the point where I had others look at it thinking I'm missing something simple. I had two different garages tell me it needed parts that didn't fix it (more batteries, starters,etc.). Then it died at a very inopportune time next to a garage when I had to catch a plane flight so I left it there. Turned out that the wire from the ignition switch to the starter wasn't replaced when the rest of the wires were. Hasn't occured since.

Oh , I voted bring the car out. I don't see the reliability issue once the problem is fixed which needs to be done no matter what your decision is. A well maintained rebuilt car can be just as reliable if not more than a newer car or modernized drivetrain in an old car. Contrary to the trend I don't really see why a modern LS engine should be any more reliable than a gen 1. More power, yes, more effecient, yes, smoother, yes, quieter, yes. But there's so little that goes wrong with the old ones once rebuilt. Slap on a modern ignition and a modern carb and you're good for 50-100,000 miles. No sensor problems/malfunctions, computer issues etc. just drive it. I drive my 70 bird daily and done trips up to 4000 miles.

Are you living in San Francisco or a nearby town? What is your parking/storage situation like? If you're living in the city, get a used car that you don't mind parking on the streets when you're doing all the fun things that city has to offer. I lived in SF for 9 years and owned a '69 Z28 during most of the that time. Here's what I learned:

1) Most of the garages/entries are very narrow. We ended up with an E46 BMW because it was the widest car that would fit in the garage at our home. So measure your garage door entry and then go car shopping.

2) Many garages in the city are tandem parking which requires your neighbors to move your car from time to time.

3) When I left SF in 2004, you could rent a safe single-car garage in a good neighborhood for about $250-300/mo. Once you get out there, you could consider bringing your Camaro and storing it in a rented garage. I kept my '69Z in Noe Valley in a rented garage in a back alley way for years with no issues.

4) It's a great town for Sunday drives in your Camaro with great weather and cool places to go, but don't rely in it as your sole means of transportation. You will want to go places that you don't want to park your Camaro.

5) Another option is to store the Camaro outside of the city. When had my race car and tow rig/trailer, I had shop space out in Fairfield, CA while living in San Francisco. Storage space is significantly less expensive out that way but you're still close to things like Sears Point/Wine Country, etc.

I live right in SF, on Polk Street in Russian Hill.

But you are right and brought up a few points I have been figuring out. If I lease or buy something used, its getting street parked. I think its like $75 a year for zone stickers. If I ship the Camaro I will store it. Spots are still about $200 - $300 range. I wont do tandem, and need to make sure its big enough for the camaro. I would want to store it in the city so I have access...storing outside the city would be tough getting to and from it and probably defeat part of the purpose of having it haha.

I work down in the financial district, so its a 15 minute bus, or a 25 minute walk over Nob Hill (imagine the worst hill walk you have ever done and double it! - thats my walk home). So the car is not at all for normal transportation.

Greg - good point on the ignition switch. Its all new, but maybe its just bad.

Thanks

If it were me, I'd buy a used Cooper Mini and use that for errands and going out on the town. Bring the Camaro and store it in the city, but be very choosey on the storage - don't be afraid to walk/drive/bus ride for the right spot. Russian Hill/Polk St. is a great neighborhood, but I'd rather have my car parked in the Marina or Pac Heights. Remember, if you buy a daily driver and leave it on the street, you'll need to move it every week for street cleaning.

I had my Jeep in NYC, in the East Village for two months...had to move it 3x a week at least for street cleaning. Once a week is nothing! And if you park in the right area I think it can stay longer, but is supposed to be moved more.

Riddle me this!

Just talked to Hagerty - and I have talked to other companies and hit the same stupid wall.

Previously, insurance and the Camaro were under my dads name in CT because I was under 25, and no one would cover me alone. I had a perfect driving record from age 16 - 23 (and last year got my first ticket). They booted me from the policy for one ticket.

Now - a few places including Hagerty have said they could get around the ticket, and I am 24, so fairly close to 25. What they cannot get around is that I do not have daily driver insurance. They need to be the secondary policy. I asked what they do for people living in NYC, or big cities that dont have daily use cars...they just dont insure them I guess.

Where can you get agreed value insurance, as a the primary policy? Yes, I could insure it with Geico or whatever but it would be book value and if something happened I would get $500 back and pat on the back.

Buy an 85 chevy, stick it a vacant lot - insure it with $0 coverage for primary, and the call Hagerty and tell them I have daily use insurance?!

They do that so people don't just try to insure their main vehicle as a "special" car, just to save on insurance.

You have to look at the big picture here. I know your case is pretty much the exception to the rule, but how do they know that? If they allow it for you, then they have to allow it for every other guy that is lying about their situation just to get the discounted rates and then claims would go up. If that happens, the majority of us that use their companies properly would pay for the abuse of others, and that wouldn't be cool at all.

Sounds like you are inbetween a rock and a hard place on this one, but I hope this clears up their reasons for you a little bit

I would buy some $50.00 piece of crap from craig's list and insure that as primary....trust Me the insurance companies can't wait to cheat you so.......


That's my cynical side talking:willy:

I have an agent trying a few different things right now. First few agents just said no right off the bat, but this one seemed overly optimistic. Her first attemtp didnt work, and now is trying to group renters insurance and car to get someone to bite. The catch! A typical renters policy is anywhere from 15k - 50k coverage, but this is a minimum of $100k! I need to buy some nice stuff, or honestly, I dont think I would be too upset if something happened to my apartment.

I understand I am not really the norm and there are reasons for this, but I am willing to pay more! My Hagerty policy was $250 a year for $37k coverage. I would have no problem paying double or triple that! Just insure me!

So what will you drive when you want to go to a large supermarket instead of the shops on Polk, or when you want to go out to dinner in the Mission, or a ball game, or hiking in the headlands, or Sausalito? See where I'm going with this? Hagerty assumes you will need to drive your Camaro if you don't have another car and their risk rises exponentially.