My 2 cents on the new Camaro...gotta say it
 

My thoughts on the new Camaro concept.

I was lucky enough to be one of the 250 to be invited by Scott Settlemire to see the new Camaro concept debut at the Detroit auto show. The whole weekend was a treat and I really want to thank Scott and the folks at Chevrolet for doing what they did. The night before the auto show we had a gathering at the GM Heritage center and most of the team that put the new Camaro together was there. They said they would listen to our comments and wanted to hear them so here I am.
While the new Camaro is neat and I think neater than the 4th gen it replaced, it is not what I was hoping for. I can remember talking with friends years ago about how cool it would be and how many cars Chevy would sell if they made the 69 Camaro again. We knew it was pipe dreaming but it sure was neat to think about. I never expected it to happen. Then comes along the new Mustang and it looks very much like a 67 Mustang. Then there are rumors of a retro Camaro and I'm pumped. Then there is a retro Hemi Challenger and it appears we are back in our youth. This is getting exciting. I will buy a new 69 Camaro. I'll buy 2 ! How many people are out there that would jump at the chance to buy a new 69 Camaro ? How many out there that like the old 69 Camaro's but don't buy one because they can't work on cars and old cars need to be worked on ? Would they buy a 69 Camaro with a warranty ? With the other makes doing the retro theme this is the perfect time and probably our only chance to do a 69 type Camaro. The market is there. There is worry that retro is not long legged enough to pencil out for the bean counters. The 69 Camaro is over 35 years old and the design still looks great. A new version of it can look just as great. I'm 52 years old and I want one. I have met many younger than me that also love the looks of a 69 Camaro. It's like we are invited to a retro party with Ford and Chrysler but have decided not to come. I know the retro T-bird didn't do well but guys like me were about 4 years old when they first came out. The guy that missed out on buying a 57 T-bird back in 57 is now probably close to 70 years old so I wouldn't expect him to buy too many cars of his youth. I missed the chance to buy a Camaro in 69 and would sure like another chance .I don't think there will ever be another chance like right now to capture the audience that is out there waiting You have a chance to capture the youth market and the baby boomers at the same time. Maybe I'm just in the minority and don't know it. GM really does want and need to know what the public will buy so they can decide on what to build. You may or may not agree with me on wanting the new Camaro to look more retro like a 69. Whatever it is you prefer please let Chevrolet know. If you don't voice your opinion don't bitch later on if they didn't do what you wanted.
-Charley

I totally agree with you Mr. Lillard. I love the concept of a retro 69' Camaro and the timing is perfect. But I was disappointed, especially when I saw the rear tail lights, what were they thinking?! A lot of 69' features are missing. What happened to the wheel well flares,rear spoiler, tail lights, ext...? I remember thinking the other night which NEW GM product I would buy, sports car wise. The only vehicle that came to mind was a C6 but you cant even touch one unless you pay 5-10k over MSRP. Look at the new C6 ZO6 10-20k over MSRP. I'm not ready to pay nor many others $85,000+ for a new Vette. I'm positive if GM gets smart and designs it to look like the most desirable Camaro ever(69), and price it right to make it available to the people it was meant for, the average working Joe, they would make a KILLING! They're close to a great looking 69 retro Camaro but it lacks the important detail. I think the interior is AWESOME, I love the gauges in the cousole. Maybe the body design guy's need to get with the interior guys and get their opinion on DETAIL.
I'm a total Chevy guy but after seeing the challenger.......... I pray that Chevrolet steers me away from Mopar!

I remember seeing another rendering of the Camaro and I loved it! All it needed was the 69 signature rear Quater Panel gills/fins and 2 fog lights on the bottom front valence by the licence plate. When I find it I will add it to this post.
-Marcus-

i think the new camaro is amazing and a really nice car but........ take off the scoops and vents and make it a caddy xlr or something. i wish they would of either gone retro or turned the page. i mean the 2nd gen had no real style cues from the first and so on. i mean if retro is in, then apply it. i wish they would of put on thier thinking caps and made a new design. oh well, im no GM tech.

I think they gave us the best of both worlds - a forward thinking design with design elements that harken back to the '69. I don't want them to re-make the '69, I want to move on and have somewhere new to take the design. I'm glad to be free of the 3rd/4th gen look. I hope they build this car as I'm in... :thumbsup:

i posted this over at pro-touring also.

Charley, I agree with you fully on that, I have been saying it even before he leaked photos, it needs to be a 69 retro design.
As far as having no where to go with the design to build from. I'm not buying it, come on the 1969 camaro was a 1 year only style. If
they built a more retro style in line with the Mustang and Challenger they can leave it alone for over 5 years, then change the bumpers and headlight and tail light treatments and get another 5 years. look at the 3rd gen 1982 to 1992, 4th gen 1993-1997 change the headlight and front bumper 1998-2002.
I agree that this is the time to make a retro looking camaro let it run its 10 year span, then come out with something different like the latest concept. Everything has a way of evolving there are plenty of ways to build on a retro design.
Whats going to happen when Dodge make the Challenger and the sales of the Mustang & Challenger beat the Camaro sales, Are they going to kill the Camaro again?

I think that GM needs to keep the edge styling to Cadillac and not let it influence other divisions.

I predict the opposite. The retro game is appreciated by the media (car mags), gear heads and older guys like us because we love the old cars. If you want an old musclecar - go buy one! They're all over the place out there. GM can't sell enough 'retro' Camaros to warrant continued production. They also need to be able to attract younger buyers, male and female, or the Camaro will disappear once again. How many of those Foosed-out 40 year old Challengers do you think they can sell once the old gearheads all have one? It'll die like the Prowler and the PT Cruiser because the design gets old real fast and people lose interest. You have to remember that we aren't the only ones GM is marketing this car to. There aren't enough of us. The fourth gen we all loved so much wasn't retro. We loved it because it was great looking and performed beyond our expectations. That's all I want out of the fifth generation.

Nothing wrong with Retro!
 

I agree with Charley and many of the other comments as well.
The front end and back end of that car is Fugly..
The interior on the other hand from what I have seen is very cool..
Before I bought my 65 Mustang Fastback I was on a mission to buy a 69 Camaro. I just could not find the right one. This is coming from a Ford guy that has owned many Mustangs over the years.
The styling cues of the 69 Camaro are so popular and in demand that Dynacorn took it upon itself to produce and sell "new" 1969 convertible body shells. I am sure that the coupes will be available soon as well.
Why do retro cars sell? I believe that it is because many of us want the old school look (that we dreamed of owning back in the day) with modern
performance,conveniences and reliability. HEY that sounds like the same reason many of us build our Pro Touring/G machines :thumbsup:
Scott

I think the 5th gen is a great style. It looks and feels very much like the 69 of old. I personaly would like to see the doors come down a little more like they used to, This way you dont have to stretch your foot so far to get over the rocker pabel. The tail lights should be like one unit instead of 2 just like in 69 with some form of chrome triming. I know a few people have questioned the front end being to pointy and they would like to see it more blunt. I dont mind it either way it was probably done like that to give it more Aero Dynamics and cut through the wind better. One more thing, the car does look a little chop toped which is cool but my sister has a 05 Hemi Charger and the windows on that thing are small and difficult for viewing. This might seem like a lot of things but dont mind me I am just a consumer.

Personally, I love it, although as I've pointed out in the other thread, I'm concerned how the styling will look with real world sized wheels and tires.

If you go over to CZ28.com, you'll see that most of the younger crowd (under 30 I'd say) think it's far too retro. Over at Camaros.net, they don't think it's retro enough.

I have 2 69 camaros and love 'em both. Chevrolet is heading in the right direction. But remember that heading North means also going a whole lot of East and West. I think GM realizes it need to hit a Grandslam with this one and right now its an in the park Homerun. I will own one of the retro Challengers if built. I'd love to buy a Mustang but I will wait on my first Love to make its decision. It definately needs more 69 Camaro influence than it has now. Its a homologation of all the first gens. The 69 is the one every body is hollering for. To use NIKE "Just do it".

Good topic Charley. Thanks for your input and sharing your trip YOU LUCKY BASTARD. :D

I've already put in enough 2cents on this car to make spare change now. I won't ramble on about what I like or dislike. I DO LIKE IT! Overall I think they're very close to what people are wanting. My only real issue with the car is the squareness of the front end. I honestly think the car needs to have a little peak in the front. I think it makes the front look a little more dynamic and interesting. I think they grill opening is perfect. But the way the sides of the front fenders "transition" into the front fascia - just too square. And this is just my opinion and all it is but the car is very over-the-top-macho. What i mean by this is yeah THIS is a street fighter. Which on one end is good but on another end could be bad.
One of the things that makes the Mustang successful and always has is that the Mustang is popular to men AND women. I read somewhere that about 50% of the sales for the Mustang are women. And most women who buy it don't care what it runs in the quarter mile or what the lateral g measurments are (like that Scott - tie in to the site) they just want it because it's sporty, has a little wing-thingy on the back and they look good in it. So they usually buy 6 cylinders. So I guess that's another thing to think about when you look at the new Camaro - is it too aggressive? Maybe, maybe not. Just a thought on that. That's why when I did my 5th gen (somebody posted above) the thinking was to make it look tough AND sexy. It needs to have a balance of hard edges and curves. I'm not saying that mine is the solution and I nailed everything - not at all. It's just what my idea of it was. Maybe the new Camaro could maybe be just a little more curvacious yet still have a strong edgy look?
I think the overall is a pretty good mix of modern and retro. I think the Challenger is way too much of a "direct copy" of the old. It looks cool and all but I think it's not even really retro - it's just a recreation of the same exact thing. After a while of comparing the Camaro and Challenger concept, I did like the Challenger a little more but then now it's the Camaro. The Camaro just has more interesting styling, more character in my opinion. It's retro and fresh.

John

I like it. It's a good balance of retro and modern.

A full-retro '69 camaro would sell great... for 2-3 years. After that you need to update it, which literally can't be done to a retro design without looking stupid and out of place.

I'm glad they didn't do it. I like '69 Camaros. I don't want them to be the next PT Cruiser. When I see a '69 Camaro on the highway I gawk & stare at it. I'd hate to see a classic like that dilluted to the point that they don't even stand out on the road from the ones with V6s driven by middle-aged women.

Enough said.

I like it, its 2009 geez. Its a great start IMO. The back ass of the vette aint michelangelo either. Put alot of power, tweak the front end, 10-20K less than vette, it will be ok.

Don't call the firing squad on me now, LOL.

I have a question, will the public ever get to see different variations of the 5th Gen Concept? As a GM enthusiast, I know many different variations were sketched and/or modeled as the NAIAS concept was being developed. I'm guessing what we see is the culmination of all the ideas throughout the design process and that there are/were design ideas that range from out of this world to versions that are almost a complete knockoffs of a 69 Camaro.

Wouldn't it have been cool if the General brought a few different versions of the 5th Gen Concept to the NAIAS and we got to vote on what we wanted most? I realize getting enthusiasts that range in ages from their teens to their 80's and that getting them (us) to agree on which one would be like trying to set the thermostat in a room full of women (it's never right! lol).

Anyways, just some honest thoughts coming from a Camaro and GM fan. :) Long live the Camaro.

I didn't like the 69 but went it came out in 69 that was the fugly thing I had every seen. not because I owned A 67 z/28 and at that time I couldn't get used to that big ass camaro man how time has changed! chevy made that car one year most of the guys who would buy the 69 were in the Dnz fighting for their life.(babyboomer) :_paranoid

Scott,
I would love to see this too (heard there were 2 different concepts going on, the one that was released and a more faithful 'retro' concept that were competing with each other). However, I think it would be a bad idea to release these to the public before the car is made, or to have people vote on their favorite. Why? Because if your favorite is not produced, then you'll most likely not be buying the one that was, I would imagine. GM needs all the sales it can get from this model, and I doubt they would want to alienate anyone by showing what 'could have' been produced.

Would make a great book/show years later though...

[QUOTE=Derek69SS]I like it. It's a good balance of retro and modern.

A full-retro '69 camaro would sell great... for 2-3 years. After that you need to update it, which literally can't be done to a retro design without looking stupid and out of place.

I agree, having it made for a limited time would be the best if not then it will end up being like every other new car out there. I think the styling is fine and they should just make it and get on with it. I do think that by 2009 400hp will not be enough and another 25-30 would more likely fit the bill especially with the 425hp Challenger coming.

I love it. The style is bold, dynamic, and it isn't a cookie cutter retro wanna-be. It has enough retro shape to catch the essence of Camaro (especially since it has been out since 2002 and there is no immediate trail to jump on from the 4th gen). The hard edges are refreshing and strong. That is modern style at its best. Look at the Acura, Caddi, and others that are making bold harsh strong body lines.

It is also futuristic in the proportions and the way it takes advantage of cab-forward design technology.

The best part of it is the amount of modern hard style gives it room to mature over a body line run. No big deal if the grille or tail lamps aren't the best right now. Look at how they evolved over the 4th gen. This car is wicked cool.

If you think about it, Camaro had to play catch up in the 60s since Ford had a couple of years to get the whole thing going. When Camaro showed up it was a refined clean and better version of what mustang had created. That is what you are seeing here. By the time this hits you won't be able to give away a retro 05 style stang.

Exactly! :captain:

I agree Scott, I would love to see all of the different variations and sketches prior to the unvieling at the NAIAS show.

Here's one.....
 

GREAT video on the making of the car....

http://www.frontiernet.net/~face440/...ocumentary.asf

That settles the debate once and for all. My 22 month old son was just sitting on my lap watching the video. Unproked, unqueued, unprompted, he started making engine racing sounds and growling noises while pointing at the computer screen when the full shots of the car flashed across!

Done deal guys...the next generation has voted :thumbsup: on the next generation Camaro. Or I guess you can look at it this way. If they still sell gas 16 years from now, he and I might be re-working a 2009 Camaro for his beater car.

Nice find, I hadn't seen that. :thumbsup:

Charley, and anyone else that had the pleasure of seeing it in person...

Did the camaro seem massive to you? It sure did to me. I stood next to the red one at the LA auto show and it seemed huge! I mean, it's a little chunk in front, but man...

Large.

Either way....

http://jcald.com/pics/laautoshow/2006/?fidx=93

That looks f'n MEAN.

I was dissapointed. I thought they should either go retro or move on. Maybe this one will grow on me and maybe not. Not having seen it in person makes a difference too, but I can't help but feel like this one is straddling the fence too much, hoping to appeal to the people clammering for retro and those who wanted something modern with styling cues, much like the Vette has always managed to do.

It probably was your vantage point with the car up on the turnstyle.

It's actually smaller than a current Mustang and waaay smaller than the pig of the new Challenger.

It is wide though...but I stood right up against it and walked around it...it's just about perfect as far as I'm concerned. :hail:

Nah, the rotating platform was broken later on in the evening. When it wasnt rotating, I hopped up onto the platform to take a look in the windows. Well worth the scolding I got for it, haha. At 6'-4" it still seemed a bit beefy....not 4000lb challenger beefy tho.

I have seen on some Camaro boards that people have said its too wide and would not fit on trailers. I hope the car changes some before it sees production. I'm not crazy about the back of the car and those funky taillights.Oh yeah..get rid of the "Knight Rider" thingy on the header panel.

I saw them at the show yesterday, and the Camaro looked pretty much like would expect dimensionally I think the rear "haunches" give the appearance that the rear is wider than it really is, but I was taken back by how HUGE the Challenger was...Chrysler really needs to come up with a new platform for that car...trying to fit 2-door pony car car clothing onto a 4-door large car chassis just doesn't work, I believe it is north of 4100# as well...Call me a homer, but when when I was there, there were several people around the Challenger, but they were 4 deep around the Camaro.....

The vehicle that people should be talking about is the Buick Enclave...beautiful...and is a sign that GM design is headed back in the right direction.....these are the cars that will actually MAKE money for GM....

Trailers?

yup...trailers. I dont know why they are worried about it fitting on a car trailer but they were. I guess they are not confident of its reliablility. :rofl: Chevy guys..go figure. :lol:

2006 Dodge Charger R/T HEMI
Base price: V-6 $22,295; price as tested with HEMI V-8 and Road & Track package, $31,495
Engine: 5.7-liter V-8, 340 hp/390 lb-ft; 3.5-liter V-6, 250 hp/250 lb-ft
Transmission: Five-speed automatic, rear-wheel drive
Length x width x height: 200.1 x 74.5 x 58.2 in
Wheelbase: 120.0 in
Curb weight: 3727 lb
Fuel economy (EPA city/hwy): 17/25 mpg
Safety equipment: Multi-stage front airbags and side-curtain airbags; anti-lock brakes; traction control; electronic stability control with tire-pressure monitors
Major standard features: Air conditioning; power windows/locks/mirrors; electric rear defroster; 18-inch wheels; cruise control; tilt/telescoping steering wheel; AM/FM/CD player
Warranty: Three years/36,000 miles; seven years/70,000 powertrain

Ok to set the record straight the new CHALLENGER will not weigh 4000#. The 4 door CHARGER only weighs 3700. If you look at all the safety gizmos and and luxury doodads. Its a wonder it isnt 2.5 tons.

I Feel they have missed the mark on the new CAMARO. Its styling is just odd to me. The whole car reminds me of a 72 grand prix too long in front and the stumpy rear is just not sexy.

I agree with some posters retro would look better. Good looks are timeless thats my point and I am sticking to it.

Okay maybe a production version won't weigh over 4000 lbs, but the concept car did weigh over 4000 lbs. Atleast thats what the tag says.

http://www.supercars.net/gallery/119513/330/11547.jpg