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Best Fuel Management for Twin Turbo First Gen

Which fuel management system is best for first gen. smallblock with Holley Stealth Ram and twin turbos? Want great drivability. Opinions and experience please.

Well, it depends on your budget. If you got like 2-4 grand to spend, get a Motec, Haltec, EMS, Autronic, Pectel, Gems, DAT or something like that.
A real EMS. Then you got a ton of things to play with, a PRO-way to go.

In other hand, if you dont have tons of cash and you want to diy and learn, then get an MegaSquirt 3, best for DIY, most of the same feature than boxes on my first list but more hands on type of thing. Biggest thing in EMS these days around the world. Everything can be found in the net and if you have a problems, help is just email a way.

In TT engine you want to seqvental ignition and fuel, so you can tune it more accurately and you will have a data logger what to check when you are tuning it or run in to trouble.

I'll put the Accel up front for drivability, even against the Haltecs etc.
Lots of programming and tables for transient fueling (driving), more than any in it's class. Great boost control as well.

I'll help you tune it as well. not hard.

Thanks
Mark

Quote:

Originally Posted by supremeefi (Post 356117)

I think the Accel Gen VII is the MOST difficult to tune system I've run across. I would never recommend it for a beginning or intermediate tuner, but if you have a pro who's familiar with it, it is very capable.

Looks like I'm going with the Holley Dominator that has some self tuning capabilities, boost control, traction control option, and lots of other possibilities. Dennis at Moore Racecraft is the man to deal with as I'm told. He helped with the design build and has fantastic customer service.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Giles (Post 356597)

Dennis is a wealth of knowledge on that system. Is he local to you? Always nice to have a tuner that has your car in front of him for tuning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by camcojb (Post 356122)

Just curious, in your opinion what makes it so hard to tune?

Thanks
Mark

Quote:

Originally Posted by supremeefi (Post 356742)

Just curious, in your opinion what makes it so hard to tune?

Thanks
Mark

oh, I don't know.............. 5000 things running in the background, shut off the O2's and they still affect things, sportsmen vs pro key, hate that TAU deal (or whatever it's called). Every dealer in the Sacto area that I knew of has dropped them, as well as a dealer I know in the Bay Area.

I've tuned FAST, BS3, Gen VII, Holley 950 Commander, Factory GM LT1 with a prom burner, GM gas and diesel computers with HP Tuners and EFI Live, Ford Lightning computer with SCT Racer Pro, MEFI 4, and probably others I've forgotten.

By far the Gen VII was the most frustrating to get up and running really well. Actually I couldn't get things perfect for a friends Procharged small block so he paid two Accel dealers several hundred dollars each to tune it; both tunes were way worse when they finished with it, in fact one of them made 700 rwhp but you couldn't even drive the car back on the trailer to get it home. Had to load my tune back in (maybe I'm better than I think! :lol: ) After all that my buddy sold the Gen VII and bought the old FAST unit, immediately ran 100% better.

I am not dissing the system, it's more than capable. But I'll stand by my statement that it's much tougher than any other I've listed above to get tuned, at least for me. I'm just a hobbiest, not a pro, but I have a fair amount of tuning experience with n/a, twin turbo, blowers, diesels, etc. I know Accel had huge issues initially with EMIC's being awarded to people that should not have been able to get them, but there's still some pretty good tuners back then that gave up on that system.

Those two dealers I mentioned above dropped that system long ago, and these guys have been tuning for a long time. I've heard that the Accel has been "dumbed down" so maybe what you get now is not nearly as quirky as what I tuned. My experience was from when it first came out several years ago

Dennis is not really local to me (5 hours away) but there is local guy named Steve Williams (Tuned By Frost) that is big with tuning GM LS boxes that has a nice shop and all the equipment including chassis dyno that I think is more than capable, I hope. Dennis said that he and I over the phone will be able to get the tune very close. Since it has some self learning capabilities it should be one of the easier ones to get tuned correctly. I plan on ordering the system tomorrow since they could get hard to come by. I'm probably 2-3 months from firing up the Chevelle. PS have you talked to Robert lately, the guy that I bought the car from?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Giles (Post 356793)

PS have you talked to Robert lately, the guy that I bought the car from?

no, I've been out of the loop.

Quote:

Originally Posted by camcojb (Post 356745)

oh, I don't know.............. 5000 things running in the background, shut off the O2's and they still affect things, sportsmen vs pro key, hate that TAU deal (or whatever it's called). Every dealer in the Sacto area that I knew of has dropped them, as well as a dealer I know in the Bay Area.

I've tuned FAST, BS3, Gen VII, Holley 950 Commander, Factory GM LT1 with a prom burner, GM gas and diesel computers with HP Tuners and EFI Live, Ford Lightning computer with SCT Racer Pro, MEFI 4, and probably others I've forgotten.

By far the Gen VII was the most frustrating to get up and running really well. Actually I couldn't get things perfect for a friends Procharged small block so he paid two Accel dealers several hundred dollars each to tune it; both tunes were way worse when they finished with it, in fact one of them made 700 rwhp but you couldn't even drive the car back on the trailer to get it home. Had to load my tune back in (maybe I'm better than I think! :lol: ) After all that my buddy sold the Gen VII and bought the old FAST unit, immediately ran 100% better. It probably had a more suitable base tune in it, no other reason, unless there was a previous install issue with the Gen 7.

I am not dissing the system, it's more than capable. But I'll stand by my statement that it's much tougher than any other I've listed above to get tuned, at least for me. I'm just a hobbiest, not a pro, but I have a fair amount of tuning experience with n/a, twin turbo, blowers, diesels, etc. I know Accel had huge issues initially with EMIC's being awarded to people that should not have been able to get them, but there's still some pretty good tuners back then that gave up on that system.

Those two dealers I mentioned above dropped that system long ago, and these guys have been tuning for a long time. I've heard that the Accel has been "dumbed down" so maybe what you get now is not nearly as quirky as what I tuned. My experience was from when it first came out several years ago

I agree to a certain degree Jody. Years ago Accel had a guy that liked to spend time in Ca. He opened a lot of "dealers", too many, guys had no idea. I run into that here in Florida too. I've redone many of other guys work, some of it boggles the mind in what they were thinking. I know Greg Weld had the same issues.

But for the record I'll put it against anything for drivability, hands down. I've done some BS3 and FAST as well, not impressed with either one. I've done back to back against Holley 950, in my and the dynos comparison, night and day difference.

Most don't know what to do first, that's a big problem. I had a great teacher at Accel, needless to say that helps. And as far as initial setup if it takes me more than a few minutes then I've done something wrong, it's easy as hell.

The "dumbing" down system is the Thruster. Has alot of the same stuff as the Gen 7 but you use different software to access it, very capable system and real price competitive with anything else out there.

And also for the record, a lot of the "self-tuning" stuff isn't. I have lots of proof of that. There's still a lot of fine tuning that needs to be done. There are posts where guys are still fooling with it for weeks.

And just remember, this last EMC was won by an Accel Gen 7. Not only best peak hp but best average hp and torque from 2500-6500, right where you drive it. I think that's something that should at least be mentioned.

Hope this helps, thanks.
Mark

Good info right there Mark. Kudos to you.

These systems are like tools -- in the wrong hands they're a nightmare -- done right by the right people and they are marvelous wonders of the world. It is 100% the skill of the PEOPLE not the equipment. Some equipment is better than others... but a good tuner can make most of them work "okay". A good tuner can make the best stuff - fantastic.

99% of the issues I've seen is on the install side. It's just amazing how many dumb little things people can come up with to mess these systems up... seriously - it just bobbles the mind. It's generally those people that sell themselves as "EFI" shops that are also trying to then tune the problems they created "out".... and that's where the toilet bowls gets flushed and the downward spiral starts. Bad install - even worse tuning. All the while the "tuner" blames the system... and the billable hours keep ticking.

Once you've had EFI -- and have a good install -- and a great tuner -- you'll never ever ever ever look at a "crab u rator" motor again. :woot:

What kind of prosessor is in Dominator (Mhz)?

Even fire, of course but how about odd fire?

Tryed to find out but no luck, any one?

Just pulled the trigger on the Holley Dominator from Dennis at Moore Racecraft. Dennis is a class act and great to deal with. I'm very much a novice when it comes to this and Dennis made me feel very comfortable and that he would walk me through the process and we would get it right.

I thought the Holley Dominator unit did not have the boost control feature yet?

According to Dennis it has 7 different ways to control boost, speed, gear selection, time, and a combination of. He did say they don't have the traction control down pat yet.

But you really should check what kind of prosessor it has, how much MHz ,cos thats really what really means everything, it can have lots of cool things to set up but if its slow as hell or cant do lot of thing at same time then its no good to nobody.

They are the "brains" in cyber-world and what counts the most.