diesel or gas
 

So here is my dilemma. I'm cheap and want to be good with me money. I'm in the market for a new truck. Well, new to me anyway. I love my trailblazer but I need an open bed truck. I want a CC Silverado 2500. I want this truck to be the last vehicle I purchase aside from toys and projects. I want to be able to pull my TA on a trailer behind the truck. 99% of the time, at least at this point in my life, I'll be hauling air though and I don't see that changing any time in the near future.

I'm finding that I can get either the diesel or a 6.0 gas engine for about the same price ~$15k. The diesel have higher mileage than the gas motors at that price range but otherwise the trucks are in similar condition. Also, and this is going back to me being cheap, I can find high mileage 6.0 trucks for a lot less than $15k. I can easily afford the trucks at $15k and even higher. I just don't like spending money, lol. Which engine should I go for? I've never owned a diesel. I know the LSx engines very well. Long term which would be the better buy? I'm worried that the diesel will cost me a lot to maintain or repair where as the 6.0 is cheap to rebuild and replace. Its also a hell of a lot easier to work on from what I can see. I'm just not sure I need the pulling power of the diesel though I like the fuel mileage better. Anyone else been faced with this dilemma or been down this road that can offer insight?

Thanks

I can't offer any personal advice on the diesels, although I do have friends and business associates that love theirs. I have had several late model GM trucks and SUVS with a few powered by the 6.0. Some had the dreaded GM piston slap/knock but others did not. They were all great on power and reliability. They were all poor on MPG.

The best being a GMC 1500HD (light duty 3/4 ton) that consistently got 15 mpg. The worst being a Denali XL that consistently got 12 mpg. Beyond regular oil changes, I never spent a dime on the motors.

If your primary function is a tow rig, I would buy a used Denali XL with a 6.2. Having had several of the GM full size SUV, I can attest to the 6.2 powered Denali XL being the best of the bunch. It has a very quite and extremely comfortable interior, and a very plush ride when combined with the auto level system.

The 6.2 provides impressive pulling power and still gets acceptable mpg. While towing my 77 Cheyenne on an open trailer, I averaged 12mpg. Without the trailer I see 17 on the highway.

While the brakes won't compare to a 2500 HD, they are still large enough to bring the massive SUV to a very quick stop. This is truly one of the best over all balanced truck or SUV I have ever driven.

I agree with N2TRUX. The 6.2 is awesome. I just picked up an 08 2500HD Diesel. I was in the same boat as you (between gas or diesel). I drove similar trucks back to back and the power of the diesel is just awesome. You would probably get similar mpg out of the gas, but i just had to get the baddest truck i could afford ha. If you rarely tow, the gas will be more than capable and like you said maintenance is less.

Go with the gas
 

The maintenance is expensive, gas motor's get all most as good of gas milage, The gas is cheaper!!!! So the milage difference is a wash,When diesels break down the get very $$$$. The LS motors last if taken care of. If you'r not pulling all the time, Go with gas.. You don't have the smell, gelling issue.. Good luck with your purchase..

Thanks for the replies guys. I keep forgetting that I have towed both C4 and C5 corvettes with an all steel trailer behind both my Trailblazer and a 1500 Silverado with a 4.8. While I wouldn't want to do it with either vehicle regularly or where it's not flat, they did just fine honestly. The 4.8 really is a great little motor. I do think I'll be fine with the 6.0 even though I swear come hell or high water that I'm moving back to Colorado damn it! LOL. Let's just say the pan handle of Texas is not my type of place to live. Anyway, if it weren't for my wanting an open bed to haul my motorcycle(s), I'd look at an Avalanche or Escalade EXT. I really like those trucks but I need a full size bed.

Did they put the 6.2 in any of the trucks or just the SUVs?

Thanks again guys. Anyone else care to add something? I'm all ears and it'll be weeks or months before I purchase anything.

Oh and if I ever need more power, I could always go heads/cam, Magnacharger, or even a turbo that spools low. At least that's part of my thinking

Having owned 5.3s and 6.0s, and now a Dodge Cummins (with over 230k on it) I can honestly say I will never again own a gasser. I just finally replaced a water pump on mine. It is twice the utility truck, gets far better mileage and expect it to last another 200k miles before any serious engine work.

You can go with gas but that is just a delay till you get a diesel. The diesels make so much torque and get better mileage. Inside my 09 GMC 2500 I can't even tell it is a diesel. Trucks before it were a 2005 Ford F150 with a Roush Supercharger and a ford Lightning. Yes they could both pull a trailer but the mileage sucked and the 2500 was 10 times better pulling a trailer. Yes you can fix a LS engine cheap but these days most newer trucks are pretty cheap to maintain. It was very hard for me to take the diesel plunge but man it is so much better..

For me taking the diesel plunge just comes from not knowing how to work on the engine and fearing that it's too difficult given my current living situation and lack of a work space. You guys have definitely given me some food for though and I have time to decide which is great. I'll just have to keep my eyes open and see what I can find.

I drive a CC Super Duty Ford for work. It's a long bed 4x4 and I routinely have a fifth wheel behind it. Yeah, it will chug along nicely. I just question if I'll be doing that much towing. Air doesn't weigh much

^^^Yup.

I bought my 08 2500 duramax new and 70,000 miles later I still love it. Best truck I have ever owned!!

Go Diesel!!!
 

I have had 1/2 ton trucks and SUV's for years and they will pull a small car trailer with a car on it ok, but not great. I also hunt and go out of town quite often throughout the year. Now I recently(within the last two years) took my 1/2 ton with car trailer and my father-in-law took his 3/4 ton diesel to go 500 miles to get two 75 corvettes that were given to me as project cars. My "little" truck did okay but the 3/4 ton diesel did it a WHOLE lot better. He could pull away from me going uphill like it was no problem....cuz it wasn't! He also could stop much better than I could. The back of my truck dragged its butt the whole way while the big truck sat level. What does this mean? It is much safer to drive while pulling a trailer. I also used my 1/2 ton to pull a 28' toyhauler last September and it was probably at least 1000lbs over the towing limit of the little truck. It was empty too. But it was my only option at the time. I was afraid of blowing up the tranny the whole time. I will give it to the 5.3 though, it did the job. My in laws pull that same trailer with 6.0HD and it has heaps of trouble doing it. I really liked my little truck however I traded her in on a 2011 2500HD Diesel CC 4x4. I LOVE THIS TRUCK!!! I pulled a car on a trailer and had to keep looking in the mirror to see if I was still hooked up. And with the four wheel disks and BUILT IN brake controller, it stopped on a dime. All in all, it steers better, rides better, has more room and when I am using it as a truck it is much safer to do those pulling jobs even though I don't do it often. Good luck in your decision but I hope you pick up 3/4 ton at least.

Oh, I intend on getting a 2500. I'm just not sure if I want or need the diesel since I won't be towing that often.


Thanks

Brother in Law gets a new work truck every two years -- his job is heavy equipment (lift trucks) -- normally he gets an F250 diesel... last truck he gets GAS... We've towed to California and back - two diesels and his gas truck -- all with trailers and hot rods... him being heaviest... we never lose him on a hill... and he's getting roughly the same milage we are with the diesels. Biggest difference - he just doesn't have the low end grunt... but he's never falling behind!

It remains to be seen about whether or not he'll take a big hit on the resale market. But then the diesel cost 7K or so more up front - and lately - I've paid more per gallon for diesel than he is for regular gas....

Ditto.

I've got an 08' 1500. I got the Vortec Max package which comes with the 6.0, basically same engine they put in the 2500 if you go gas. I added a set of firestone airbags in the rear to handle some extra load and keep the rear from sagging under weight of a trailer. I'm pretty sure my truck was rated at 10,000 lbs tow capacity.

I really like the 6.0. I have pulled many cars on my steal floored 17ft trailer many times. It pulls great, but really sucks the gas! Like 6mpg in tow/haul mode if your hitting hills and running 70+ (6" lift and 35" tires probably doesn't help that either ). I have also pulled a 24ft enclosed bumper pull, but wouldn't want to do that very often.

If you are going to be pulling a lot, I would go with diesel. If you will be towing occasionally, the 6.0 does a fine job.

My buddy has an 05 diesel with a programmer and he smokes me. No contest.

My next truck will be diesel.

I was in the same boat about 2 years ago. I wanted to buy a Chevy/GMC but felt the 2500 was just a little more truck than we needed and it was really tough to find a 6.0 1500 with the gearing and towing package needed to pull 8-10k. It gets driven around town and grocery store parking lots more than to the track and on hunting/fishing trips. Hate to say it, but we ended up with a Tundra. It just feels more nimble and all teh 5.7's tow 10,500. I also like the back up camera and misc. options that are easy to find in the resale market. Not with this and that and this option bull **** on the Chevy/Gmc. I've towed to CA and back with it 3 times now. If you've ever dont that, you know the El Cajon and Baker grades in mid summer are a true test for a truck. I pull them both at 55mph and the temp gauges don't even move with a 24ft enclosed with a car and gear.(8-9k) I could pull them faster, but I don't want to beat up my truck. It says Made in USA. :thumbsup:

Sorry Greg but I'm calling bs. There is zero possibility of him weighing more, pulling just as strong AND getting remotely near the same mileage. Zero. You'd have to invent new laws of physics. No way now how no time.

I recommend diesel. They cost a little more in maintenance, but I believe they will last longer is taken care of properly. The power is unreal and the mileage is good for a truck that heavy. i have a 2008 Duramax, and will never go back to a gas again. This might even be the last truck I buy. 65K and still strong.

I have it programmed with a 4" turbo back. So my mileage is a little better without the smog stuff on it.

Okay -- I just made it up. Except that it's true. I personally wouldn't believe it except that we've now made 3 or 4 trips together... with his new gas truck.

The milage he's getting is 7+ ------- I get 10.4 to me that's close enough when you do the math and figure what I paid EXTRA for the diesel. And I pay more per gallon for diesel at each fill up.

The last two trips I'm dragging my '32 Ford - he's got my Nomad that weighs almost DOUBLE the '32.... So you can do that math as well.

Hey Greg...

BTW -- Just to be perfectly clear -- Personally there's no way I'd buy a gas truck... I tow way too much and I want the full monty deal of being able to blow past people while pulling the grapevine! :woot:

BUT -- If someone is asking about a suitable truck and states they only tow very occasionally... and lives in Texas (pretty flat)... then I can't see much of an argument for selling him a diesel. The added expense.. up front and per gallon just doesn't make much sense for the "power".

My Brother in Laws company switched their entire fleet to gas last year... and they're in the heavy equipment business (Pape)... while he would prefer to have the diesel... he'll be the first to tell you his gas truck is just "fine".

That's funny!


To me -- RETARDED -- is FORD only selling 4X4's in the bigger trucks. I'd replace my '06 F-350 but I can only get it with 4 wheel drive. Hummmmmm...
I'm not towing much in the snow.

I went through the same thing about 8 months ago. I dont tow very often, but I prefer to overengineer stuff than to just "get by", so I ended up getting a 2500 Ram diesel and its been great. It drives around town like a gas truck and tows a 20 ft enclosed car trailer with a car no problem.

The fuel mileage vs the fuel price makes that aspect a wash in my book.

We just towed a 20 ft boat with my friend gas Expedition....it could do it, but it didnt do it very well and the diesel will tolerate being "abused" way better than a gas truck.

This is my first diesel and I'm pretty happy that I did.....

This is great stuff, thanks all for you input.
Next year I’ll be replacing my ’01 Durango (4.7 V8, tow package, 3.90’s, lsd, etc) with something bigger and better. I ‘thought’ the Durango had enough power… Until I pulled a car through the mountains of Virginia- Holly @#$#@*!:brix:

Lesson learned.

Towing in a flat area is one thing, but man, oh man, those mountain grades had me putting my foot to the floor on both the pedals! Not the proper tool for the job, and once my race car is done I’ll be towing more and more.

I expect 200,000 miles out of any vehicle, and I take care of them appropriately. The Durango has 170,000 with no drive-train issues at the moment, but it's showing its age elsewhere. In the past the Diesel drive trains were just plain made to run longer than the gas units. Not sure that this is still the case?

I’m very seriously looking at that next purchase being a used Dodge with the Diesel. But I could be swayed at this point. I already find that I tow “stuff” more than I ever thought I would, from my enclosed motorcycle trailer to whatever random car needs to be moved around, or patio block, or ???. Plus, 4x4 winter duty is important here.

It’s fun to shop, but when I write the check I want to make damn sure it’s for the correct tool!

For what it's worth when I sold at a local Chevy dealer that particular store sold diesels 5 to 1 over gas.
Now up here we have real live mountains. And in this county A LOT of livestock moving (heavy towing often).
That being said, those new diesel sales were usually to the people towing several times per month. That alone tells me the towing issue is in favor of diesels hands down. No brainer there.

But for the average guy who commutes, hunts, camps, tows once in awhile or just likes driving a truck the gas motors are fine.
High mile diesels take a bit more maintenance and that does cost more on average than the gas trucks. Even the oil changes and air & fuel filters can be double or more than a gas motor.
I have owned both a 2500 6.0 gas and a 5.3 1500 (current)
And both were VERY cheap to maintain.
The few times I wished for more power with either really didn't justify me buying a diesel.
The boat I towed with the 6.0 (with close to 200k) was about 7000 pounds fully loaded including trailer.
Only on the steep and long grades did I want more grunt. But that was so I could cruise at 75 instead of 55/60.

Sorry if my rambling doesn't help. But I just didn't NEED diesel. But I sure do WANT one.

Greg, a few things. Thanks for posting the numbers - it helps.

First, if you just say 7.4 instead of 7+, it still means you get more than 40% better mileage than him. Maybe it's just me, but that isn't even close. How would you like a 40% interest rate on a savings account?

Beyond that, why is your mileage so bad on your diesel? I routinely pull 8k in my 24ft enclosed (gross trailer and contents) and I never get less than 15 even at 75mph cruise in serious terrain. I usually average closer to 17+. A family member has the ford v10 and while it pulls ok it can't keep up and eats twice the fuel. I got rid of my 5.3 1500 but we still have the 2500 6l. I burn 50% less fuel in the cummins, faster, with more weight.

Maybe it's a powerstroke thing? I'm way more familiar with the cummins and dmax. We live in very hilly terrain here and people would be screaming if their diesels only got 10.4.

As an aside, I was VERY glad that mine is a 4X4 the one time I got my 36' fifth wheel travel trailer (12K lbs, dry) into a soft patch of muddy grass on the shoulder of a state park road.... put it in low and eased her out. Would not have made it out, otherwise.

Btw, I agree with a lot that Greg said. Here are some downsides of the diesel.

If you get the manual tranny like my 6spd which is clearly the best for over the road pulling and economy, it can be very tedious in daily driving. The diesels don't accelerate quite as quick as a gasser.

SOME diesels are noisy (pstroke)

Diesel trucks cost more and fuel is more expensive.

Diesels are heavy.

Major repairs can be expensive.

Here are some upsides of diesels.

Way more pulling power. Period. Torque, baby.I'm making more than 600lbs at 1400rpm. Nuffield said.

SOME diesels last hundreds of thousands of miles. I'm at 230k and barely broke in the cummins.

You use way less fuel. Empty or loaded. Mpg is very consistent almost regardless of load.

Depending on the engine, repairs are infrequent. For me, a water pump at 230k miles.

Diesels hold their value.

Did I say way more power?


Here's the big difference. I don't care who you are, if you're in a gasser pulling a heavy load through anything other than perfectly flat terrain, you don't look forward to it. With a good diesel, pulling becomes fun and effortless.

So I do agree with Greg that while getting the 3/4 ton is essential for anyone really thinking about pulling (please don't try to convince me that 1/2ton trucks pull well as Ive had too many) if you only pull once in a while and it isn't serious the. A diesel isn't necessary. Of course, neither are our cars :)

WM --

I guess that you've confirmed my "thoughts" with the OP. He lives in flatland... and only tows infrequently - and the gas truck - while not what I'd buy - would be "fine" and I think that's what information he was looking for.

I get HORRIBLE milage... Pstroke 6.0L - With Banks Big Hoss bundle so every option they make.... but I have a 1 ton dually - with 4:10 gears... I pull a heavy (relatively) trailer that is LOADED with stuff... as in full tool box - compressor - 8000# winch and battery... generator... ez ups - cabinets and overheads... floor jack (not a little hydraulic bottle jack) and fully finished inside... so the trailer is a little heavier than a comparable sized "plain jane" version. My Nomad weighs in at 4023 lbs. I get no difference in towing that or the '32. Best I've ever gotten is 11.2 MPG. The truck weighs 9000 #'s empty. But it goes like stink and NOBODY is going to pull a hill faster. :unibrow:

Totally agree with your statement re: our cars etc... it's never a matter of "need" -- just desire and floating your own boat - whatever that takes.

My next truck will be a SportChassis size -- and a trailer with living quarters etc -- and I will option the truck with the biggest HP diesel engine available... just because I can't do it any other way and be happy/satisfied. There is ZERO need for any of it. I just want it. :yes:

That can be fixed by learning how to drive better....:rofl:

No need for the 4X4... and the ONCE you needed it could have been fixed with a WINCH... or using your cell phone and calling a tow truck etc. I just don't NEED to carry all the weight and drivetrain components on a truck that is used for HIWAY recreational towing.

I work in a vehicle research department. One of the things we track are failure rates and defects with various trucks - especially considering diesel issues.

Let me tell you this - when a diesel breaks - it is expensive. The fuel system is the weak link. Diesel fuel is dirty by nature - has water and dirt in it right out of the pump. As you know, diesel engines have water in fuel filter systems. It is CRUCIAL these are drained and serviced regular. Failure to do so will kill the truck.

Both the later model Dodge and Ford trucks will cost you between $12,000 to $14,000 when the fuel system goes. The pump, high lift pump, injectors and assemblies will set you back this much in a heartbeat.

This begs the huge question on buying used or new. We know new diesel trucks are nuts on the price. However, if you buy used and you DON'T know the service history - you better have plenty in reserve to deal with a failure.

Dodge has a real problem on the Cummins and came out with a SEVERE duty filter kit-translation - they don't make an adequate factory filter so the injection system gets wrecked and costs you...$12K to fix. They won't warranty fuel related issues. In fact, Dodge has a WIF track that stores how long you have driven with the WIF light on. THis is designed to avoid paying warranty claims where the owner is not taking care fo the vehicle.

Check out how serious they are about this:

NUMBER: 14-002-10GROUP: FuelDATE: February 11, 2010THIS BULLETIN SUPERSEDES TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN 14-003-09 REV. A, DATED OCTOBER 21,2009, WHICH SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM YOUR FILES. ALL REVISIONS ARE HIGHLIGHTED WITH **ASTERISKS** AND INCLUDE A NEW PART.SUBJECT:Heavy Duty Filtration - MOPAR Retrofit or Add On Parts AvailableMODELS:2003 - 2009 (D1/DH)

Ram Truck (2500/3500 Pick Up)2007 - 2009 (DC)
Ram Truck (3500 Cab Chassis)NOTE:


This bulletin applies to DI/DH/DR vehicles equipped with a 5.9L Cummins engine built from 2003 model year (sales codes ETH, ETC) and DI/DH/DC vehicles equipped with a 6.7L Cummins engine built from 2007 model year (sales code ETJ).DISCUSSION:Several fuel system add-on or retrofit parts are available to enhance the filtering capability for customers exposing their vehicles to extremely dirty conditions.Description of parts available for Cummins diesel equipped vehicles are listed below: ^


6.7L up-graded (5 & 10 micron filter-in-filter) fuel filter to retrofit earlier models (shell and element). ^ 6.7L Element only, fuel filter. ^ 5.9L & 6.7L Add-on or up-graded fuel tank vent hose kit with vent cap. ** Filter for fuel tank vent hose, (replaces vent cap) **. ^ 5.9L up-graded air filter. This filter is similar in design to the current 6.7L air filter.NOTE: Do not sell pin 05183410AA. Use 68061633AA shell and filter.NOTE: The maintenance intervals for the fuel filter has a 15,000 mile service requirement or more often as needed.

By the way - those of you with 2008 and up trucks.

Checked your Diesel Exhaust Fluid lately?

For those that have no idea what I'm talking about - check this out (just another reason in my book NOT to buy a diesel if at all possible)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w31vRM1BORM

I suddenly want a diesel truck much less now.......

Thanks for the info. And for crushing my dreams........:D

2008 don't have DEF, and I believe 2009 chevy's don't either. It started in 2010. But anyways, to answer the OP question, a gas will be fine. I agree with that, but if you want more power and more ease of towing, then a diesel is better. All depends on personal preference, how often towed, and budget. But now, it seems like you can get a used diesel for a decent price with moderate miles.

Hey Greg, around here the pstrokes aren't the favorite option. It's mainly Cummins or Dmax. Mine is only a 3/4 ton and not a dually but the weights are very similar though I have 3:73s. Add in the smarty jr and the 6spd and I'm pretty optimized though I'm also pushing 4x4 which I wouldn't give up. My Pontiac is 3720 plus full 5ft tall loaded tool chest, floor jack, winch, etc but is probably a little lighter as it isn't totally "finished" but I do have it loaded down. I'm guessing that the loaded trailer for this coming weekend will be around 9000lbs. I can't make the rig get less than 15 no matter what. That's on cruise, loaded, through west Virginia hills at 65-75mph. I don't know of any pstrokes that can say that, and I do know that some dmaxes are faster. They can really be hot rods.

Don't let the previous scares mess with you. I can find a gazillion tech bulletins about pretty much any vehicle out there and have NEVER in ALL the owners I know, meet and see observed a "$12,000" rebuild on a diesel fuel system. I'm not saying there can't be problems but the statement to avoid a diesel if at all possible? Are you kidding me? Better tell all commercial trucking they're screwing up. Truth is - and it's fact - we've been slow to catch on but diesels are here to stay and for good reason. I'm not a fan of e urea based systems but..... And to pick on the cummins of all the diesel motors? The only medium duty engine option? Wow. I guess it just reinforces my avoidance of all the "analyst" opinions. Btw I do know of two people who had warranty fuel related issues that were completely covered.

Bottom line is this. I've got a number of diesel vehicles. Some are 50 yrs old. I've got a truck with 230k miles on it that runs like new, though it does have the typical cheap a$$ dodge interior. I do NOT run biodiesel, which can introduce all kinds of issues. And here's a question. There are a bunch of folks on this site who pull with diesels. Who hearer has found all kinds of water in their fuel, or has paid $12k for a fuel system rebuild. Buehler? Ferris?

The incident in question took place on a dirt road up in gold country where only one vehicle can pass at a time.

Cell Phone? LOL!....Not going to happen at some of the places we go hunting and camping, GW.

I realize that some o' y'all city folk never actually need or use their 4WD....but I'm not one of them....

BTW, I have also had my 07 so covered in gumbo mud, that you couldn't tell what color it is. It's forded a couple of streams as well.

Give me the extra capability of 4WD in my HD truck, any day.

I really appreciate everyone's replies.

I currently live where it is flat but will be running to Colorado and back often. I even hope to return to living in Colorado. More times than not I'll be hauling a motorcycle in the bed up and down the grades not the car. I'll also be going on many of the trails in Colorado but nothing serious so I'll have 4wd. I really would like this truck to be the last vehicle I ever buy that's not a toy or project that's why I am getting a CC eventhough I have no family and am not popular enough to need four doors. In the future, I'm sure four doors will be utilized.

I'm getting the 2500 for towing and ruggedness. The issue is diesel or gas. I'm finding trucks in my price range ~$15k both diesel and gas loaded the exact same way. These are 03-early07 Silverados. Mileage is very different with the gassers around 80k to 100k and the diesel 150k and up. The long term value of the vehicle is a factor though a smaller one. I can afford a diesel and I love the pulling power. I'm just trying to be smart and logical about this decision and not let emotion control my purchase.

Thanks

I met a new neighbor last night and he has an 07 Dodge with a cummins. He said his turbo has been out once or twice because he's not driving it long enough at highway speed. Dodge gave him a DVD and said he must drive it at 55mph for at least an hour continous every two weeks. Take it for what it's worth.

Correct! Thanks for the catch.



You will just have to trust me on this. I can't release actual statistics from my work - but the numbers are overwhelming on these failures and the impact it is having.

My buddy just bought a 2005 F250 Diesel with 120K miles. Bought a one way plane ticket - flew into FL and drove it back to IL. When he hit Atlanta around midnight...power loss....slowing down....slowing....Stopped. Had it towed to the Ford dealer on Memorial day. Upper fuel system dead - $3,000 later he was rolling. He was lucky to get out that cheap! He now has a 2011 Duramax Chevy and is very happy with it.

By the way, the new GM products don't have the severe issue that Dodge and Ford fight.

Ford had a massive issue with injectors. They say the Dodge problem is the injectors are not properly filtered. They require 2 micron, but the best the stock system on the truck does is around 10. Thus - dirty fuel and dead truck.

I don't have an agenda - but it is nice to know some of those things you don't find out until you find out the hard way.