Can't Lower Car w/ G-Bar System
 

I just finished mocking up the ChassisWorks 4-Bar system for a 69 Camaro. I have discovered that the VariShocks included with the kit, VAS 11122-515, will not allow me to lower the car to the height I desire. I was under the assumption that this kit would allow me to lower the car in a typical Pro-Touring stance. At the moment, I have about 1 1/2" of travel before I bottom out the coil-overs.



I noticed that there is another shock, VAS 11111-425, that has a shorter compressed length. I would lose almost an inch of compressed length allowing me to lower the car with less of a chance of bottoming out. Do you think this would work in my configuration? The car will be strictly street driven.



I also thought about lowering the lower shock mounts and maybe even raising the upper shock mounts to gain additional travel. What are your thoughts on this?

Thanks!

This seems to be happening on a regular basis with the new G Link. I'd lower or raise the shock mount. Shock travel is a good thing.

I was told the same thing.

This is supposedly the correct ride height for a g link. I was advised not to go lower.

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u...DSC_0150-1.jpg

I ran into a similar issue with mine, the shop doing the install installed a shorter spring but I don't have any part #'s to help you out.

Subscribing...

I am interested in installing a 4-link over the winter and Im kinda between the Prodigy Bar and the DSE Q-Link. Im not a HARDCORE autocross guy, etc the car is just for cruising around mostly, but may see the drag strip once a year. I was going to go with the Prodigy Bar, but kinda undecided now that Im hearing of it cracking the frame rails, as seen in Vegas69's build thread (I plan on dropping in a 600+ hp BBC next year). So that lead me to the G-Link, but I have heard these issues of not being able to go as low as some may like.

I think Rybar got the best of both worlds and put in a shorter spring. I remember following his build thread and seeing this. I would look into this option...

Well not quite, the decreased shock travel is not something I would have wanted. If I were to do it over again there would be a DSE Quadralink in my car no questions asked. I also think the Speedtech Torque Arm gets the car to sit pretty low, look into that as well.

Oh nevermind I got kinda confused and thought you had a G-Link in the car. I forgot you do not. Sorry for the confusion. :willy:

I do have the Alston G-Link in the car :_paranoid

Put the DSE in it and forget it.

I was basing my previous post off Rybar. I thought you had changed mounting locations vs. shorter springs. I've found that I need 2.5 inches of bump travel in the rear to keep from bottoming out in ALL scenarios. I got greedy and lowerd my car a little less than a 1/4" before I went to button willow last month. I got back and my LR oring was seated against the shock housing .Now, this is a very slight bottom out and I'm no concerned with it. For a weekend warrior and occassional drag car, I wouldn't be to concerned with a little less and you won't see the extreme forces that a road course brings into play. Even with the DSE set up, if you go to low you will also decrease shock travel.

Im sorry I meant to say you dont have a DSE Qlink...

G-bar, G-link, Q-link... I got my keys mixed haha

Vegas - So if Im not going to be TOO ROUGH (no autocrossing, maybe once a year if that at the drag strip) but have around 550-600 rwhp, will the Prodigy Gbar (I guess more asking about the frame rails) hold up? Or would the DSE Qlink be the better option? I just felt the Qlink might be overkill/more than I need to pay for my project.

Matt, I'd have to agree with Todd. I think the kits are priced similarily anyways just the DSE Q-link might be a bit more labour to install.

Only thing I'd add - and I'm not 100% positive on this - but I believe you can get better A/S numbers w the G link as opposed to the Q link if you plan on drag racing?

It should......:unibrow: If I had it to do over again, it would have a quadralink in a New York minute.

Ron, it seems the DSE equipped cars get out of the hole better. That's my opinion. That could be as simple as shocks.

I also installed the Alston G-Link and it came with 12-200 springs which set the car too high even on the lowest mount position. I simply purchased a pair of 8-200 springs from Speedway Motors and the shorter spring allows me the necessary adjustment to set the car where I want it to be.

http://hayes-ent.com/steve/images/Camaro1.jpg

http://hayes-ent.com/steve/images/Camaro2.jpg

Well I know the G-link and Q-link are similar, but I believe the Prodigy G-bar is about $200-300 cheaper. I will probably just stay screw it and go DSE... when you are spending that much, what is an extra couple hundred? :cheers:

Sounds like your intended usage is pretty much inline with mine. I went back and forth with this decision myself and I ended up going G-link. No seat time yet but for multi-purpose setup I think it will work out nicely and has a good bit of adjustability.

The QuadraLink is awesome piece and especially so if you plan any serious auto-X/road race outings. As stated, the labor to install could make it more expensive than the other options. That's another reason I decided against it.

I'd recommend giving Marcus at SC&C a call and discuss it with him. Very helpful in understanding the pros/cons of the popular choices, e.g. G-link, Air Bar/Prodigy Bar, torque arm, QuadraLink.

Take a look at the four bar setup from Art Morrison. Looks like less fab than the Quadralink but doesn't use the factory frame rails. I had a G-Bar in my Firebird and I'm definitely going to consider AME on my next F body.

Don

How does it ride with the 10" springs?

The car is not operational yet so I cannot tell you how it rides. Just FYI, the Prodigy bar and the G-Link are the same thing and both are manufactured by Alliston's Chassisworks.

That's not correct. The G Bar was a joint venture between Air Ride and Chris Alston. Basically and air bar with varishocks. The prodigy bar is the same but with QA1 end links everywhere except the front spring pocket. The G Link is a fresh design from Chris Alston solely.

What I can tell you is that I purchased a Prodigy bar from Frank and what arrived was the G-Link from Alston. That tells me that what Frank is selling as the Prodigy Bar is actually the G-Link. That said, I understand this suspension has been undergoing a number of improvements recently.

You mean G-Bar. There are two different generations of Alston things, the G-Bar which is what the Prodigy Bar is based off of, and the G-Link which is similar but different.

The G-link doesn't need it's bearings changed in general because they have spherical already (except maybe the lowest variant). The Cradle is vastly different and I believe offers much more adjustment.

I'd have to talk to Frank but what I said is on the money since I can't imagine Frank is making any changes to the G Link. It has the trick end links and adjustments.

The Prodigy Bar is a G Bar with different end links that will last. I tore out the factory end links my 1st autocross.

chassisworks g-bar & g-link difference
 

I'm not sure what Frank has but the major difference is the Chassisworks g-bar has poly bushings for the end links the Chassiworks g-link has pivot balls for the end links. Both systems are available with either air springs or coil overs

http://cachassisworks.com/c-340-cama...gm-f-body.aspx

G Bar(Mustang Photo)
http://scandc.com/new/node/534

Prodigy Bar
https://lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=16153

G Link
http://www.cachassisworks.com/gBar.html
Using G Bar due to marketing.

I bought my G Bar in 2007. I don't want to sound like a prick, but I know what I'm talking about. HA HA

Yeah check out Vegas's project thread... he knows every inch of his car which includes a 4-link stated previously. Hes been through this a couple of times Im sure. :P

if you get on their website and look at the pictures you will see that they are using a fab 9 housing which has a ton lower mounting points for the coil over. you want to maintain shock travel as its a good thing! im sure with the various housing mount points and a tiny bit of coil over adjustment you can get the ride height desired.If you already have your rear end "built" im sure the shop or your self could order these brackets and weld them on. hope this helps.-JEFF

The kit can be ordered with the brackets to weld to your own rear end. The springs are too long for a super low ride height and the fact that the cross bar sits under the stock trunk floor makes them sit in a lower position vs the DSE which has the shock cross member and mounts the shocks higher up so you can still sit low and have the correct travel. Sorry I'm not a suspension engineer but that is the thought in my head. Here are pictures of the Alston G-Link as Todd stated it is different than the older G-bar/Prodigy bar.

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u...o_g-Bar_01.jpg
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u...o_g-Bar_02.jpg
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u...o_g-Bar_03.jpg
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u...o_g-Bar_04.jpg

For what it's worth here's a pic of our G-Link and Fab9. These were bought form Prodigy last winter.

http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/a...IMG_5995-1.jpg

http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/a...IMG_5999-1.jpg

http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/a...o/IMG_5994.jpg

http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/a...o/IMG_5913.jpg

You wouldn't happen to have any pics of full compression with frame-to-axletube clearance, would you?

Thanks anyways for those pics tho!

Ride height. I never took any from the side this summer...
http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/a.../IMG_78612.jpg

Clearnace with no gas tank and an empty trunk.
http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/a.../IMG_67462.jpg

http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/a.../IMG_67432.jpg

I haven't measured the clearance yet. I bulit my own exhaust pipes this spring. Tail pipes are on the list for this winter so I'm sure I'll be getting to know this area well.

If I had it to do over again, I would have went with the DSE rear suspensing. I have the same g-bar rear as Todd, 2000 miles, 1 autocross, 600 RWHP and small cracks in the same place. If you do run this set up, box it into your frame and tie it into the floor pan.

wow it does look like you get the same amount of lower mounting holes either way. the pictures i looked at showed about 3 different positions with a fab 9 and only 1 with the bolt on lower arms. must be old pics.

what are the weights on your current springs Ed? Might come down a bunch when you get the tank and stuff in. You can go to a shorter spring, it will put your adjuster nut mid shock.

Damn, your rails must have been weak or that babies digging. The new g link is way worse in my opinion. It's missing the front cross member in the cradle that we enjoy. One thing I found after going to a 10" spring with my G Bar, you need to be careful at full extension. The design of the alston shock will allow the spring collar to fall off the shock mount with no spring tension. I safety wired my spring collar to my shock mount. This will only be needed if you go fairly low with a 10" spring. No idea on the G Link but all you need to do is jack the car up and let the rear end droop to check.

Found a photo that shows what I'm tallking about. Notice the shock collar sitting on top of the spring. This is exaggerated but there will be about .25-.375 gap depending on ride height.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...1969/010-2.jpg

^ My Strange (brand) shocks do the same thing. Freaked me out the first time I jacked up the car. Good idea w the safety wire Todd...

Vince,
They're 12 200s now. I took a quick cell pic this morning of ride height with tank. I still need to throw some weight in the trunk to account for a sub box and full spare that Beth wants. We put around 300 miles on it this summer so it should be settled. I would like to get the tire tucked a bit so I'll probably be looking at shorter springs.

Todd,
Good info on what to watch on shorter Springs.

http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/a...DEyNC5qcGc.jpg

I actually safety wired my spring to the shock mount. That keeps the shock collar up against the shock mount. I fastened both twice.

Got photos of those cracks? Or do you have a better description where they showed up? Was it for a mini-tub application, or was it in the factory sheet metal/frame rail?

I'm installing a G-link for a mini-tub application and I'd like to see where I might need re-enforcements welded in. I will be running a roll bar and supports into the trunk to spread the load around, so I should have a little bit more strength into the rear end section of the car than a regular bolt-in/weld-in installation as Chassisworks recommends.

pokey64... are those 17" rims? Look forward to any measurements you can grab when you start to "intimately familiarize yourself" with the area while making tailpipes! :lol: