Budget '69 Camaro Track Car - NO WHINERS!
 

A few of you have been asking about my car so I thought since I have a little time I would share the story of how my car got started.

Back in the year 2000 I picked up A PHR magazine showing the process of the building of Stielow's and now Charlies "the Mule". By this time I'd already had my car for 5 years.

I threw on upper Global West control arms and rear leaf's, a Baer brake track/touring set up, Speed Direct rack, and some 17" Torque Thrust II's with 255's on 8's up front and some 275's on 9.5's in the rear.

Here's a couple of old pic's from back the day. Hang tight as I'm digging up photos and resizing them


http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/a...l/IMG_4558.jpg

Hey, about time you post a thread! :thumbsup: But no pic attached buddy.

I ran NASA HPDE's up until 2004 or 2005 and then they started the Time Trial group.

Here's a couple of pic's running Time Trials in 2006. By this time the roll cage, DSE subframe connectors, and new 383 with 500 hp was in.

2006 would be my last year racing the car as other priorities would take place.

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/a...y2006003-1.jpg

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/a...y2006001-2.jpg

Fast Forward to 2010. I'm off work for 3 months due to surgeries. I've known about the Pro-Touring forum since 2002 but never really participated but with 3 months of nothing to do where else could I have possibly ended up.

So with all the killer builds going on Phase 2 began. I started with ordering an aluminum small block 427 motor from NYES. Keep in mind this is a budget build and the only way to get big horse power and torque on a budget is high compression. This motor is 13.5 compression and makes 620 hp at 6500 rpm and 550 torque at 5000 rpm.

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Of course I couldn't stop there. I got word that AMD was making aluminum front clips for the '69's so I decided to throw one on.

So off with the front clip.

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And on with the new aluminum one.

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Good stuff...keep it coming

Thanks Jerry!!

So next thing to do obviously would be to paint the car. Being budget minded I tell the painter to just paint the front and match the rear. When I went to pick the car up the paint matching didn't go so well. As a matter of fact it wasn't even close. The front looked awesome and the rear looked as dull as a faded hugger orange could possibly look so we ended up painting the whole car.

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Motor is in and car is painted. Time for some exhaust. I went wth 3" all the way out the back.

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Now that the motor is in, car is painted, and exhaust is installed it was time to try her out on a road course. I chose Buttonwillow because it is one of my favorite tracks. Especially the 13 CW configuration.

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In the later pics with the Torque Thrusts are those wider wheels in front then the early pics??

Gaetano, Good to see you posting about your Camaro...it's a cool ride to share what's going on with it. Bet you're excited about the new engine.

Yes sir. I was screwing around with my car out in the garage back in the day and decided to try the rears up front. When I turned the wheel from left to right I noticed rubbing and figured out it was the wheel wells so I cut the wheel wells out in the locations that it rubbed and the rest is history.

Thanks Corey, appreciate the kind words. I thought I was going to be intimidated with the new motor having so much more power than my old one but it actually turned out to be alot more fun.

YA THINK??? :rolleyes: :D

So after my first day on the track I noticed the car was getting really loose early on in my sessions and by the 5th lap I was drifting through the turns.

Turned out my rear differential was shifting from side to side in the corners and my rear tires were rubbing against my quarter panels and tail pipes.

Next step, watts link. Oh, and while I'm at it I may as well mini tub it. Not sure why I decided to mini tub but I did it anyways.

In order to fit wider tires for the mini tub I had to narrow my tank and move my exhaust inboard of the leaf springs.

Here are some pics of the mini tub, narrowed stock tank, watts link, and relocated exhaust.

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/a...ttsLink101.jpg
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Gae, you skipped the part about the sending the leaky motor back to Nyes...:D

oh he's leaving out a bunch! :D

Wait till you see what we have cooking for next year. Even he doesn't know. :lol:

I didn't know that sucker was 13.5:1! Wow, no wonder you don't drive it on the street.

Great pics. Keep em comin...

Yeah I remember your issues with NYES too..... are you happy with the engine now that it's in and all setup tho?

This car is all business. The owner is all attitude. :cheers: It's crazy how tight everything is packaged in your rear differential area.

Ahh you remembered. OK, so let me fill in. There was a total of three Buttonwillow trips last year. The first one was a disaster because the motor leaked oil from just about everywhere. That day at Buttonwillow My fastest time was 2:18 and after two sessions packed it up and left due to oilleaks. Sent motor back, leaks got fixed and then she was good to go. Next trip to Buttonwillow laid down some 2:15's and all was well but car had a push.......Which now leads me to my buddy Vince at Dreamspeedmotors.

After my second stint at Buttonwillow I went to Dreamspeedmotors for some advice and to ask them if they would sponsor me. They agreed to help me out and so they set the car up for my third trip to Buttonwillow. My word to all was that after Dreamspeedmotors was done with tuning the car that I would lay down 2:10 lap times. Dreamspeed readusted front sway bar and raised the front leaf spring perch mount. Sure enough I knocked 5 seconds off my time and ran a couple of low 2:10 lap times at Buttonwillow 13CW config with one 2:10.3 and another 2:10.1. BTW, a big thanks to Vince.......always thinking and always taking care of my needs within a small budget.

Looking forward to next year!!

Love the engine now. So far so good and all you can do is cross your fingers.

Todd, had a great time running with you guys last time out. Cant wait till we get together again and once again congrats on those killer times you laid down. You've got some great skills behind the wheel and are also really fun to hang out with. :cheers:

Some time around 2005 I got Performance Fabrication in Redwood City to sponsor me and they are the ones that installed my bolt together Autopower roll cage that I had them weld together and installed my oil cooler set up.

So moving forward and trying to do so on a budget it was time to fill in the rear wells with some wider tires. Trying to be fast, light weight in wheels is a big help. I researched wheels for a long time and come to find out 2002 Z06 wheels are 19 lbs up front and 21 in the rear. I think to myself,"Hey no brainer, pick up some used Z06 wheels and I'll save at least $3000. So I pick up some Z06 wheels for $600 bucks. I kinda liked the way they looked but the problem is that you need spacers to make them work with a stock subframe and rear. I tried them out but they did not work. Handling completely changed and the front of the car pushed like it was on ice.

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Gaetano,

Thanks for taking the time to create this chronology. My goal is to have a good street/track car and your info is very helpful.

Brake system still Baer track/touring?

Trans and rear gear ratio?

Ahh yes, forgot to mention the trans. One of the big reasons for wrapping things up with NASA in 2006 was loosing a tranny and a motor in the same season. First went the trans. I was running an M-21 for years and really loved it but lack of maintaining it(just being dumb and not changing the oil after every track day) I grenaded it heading up the hill after turn one at Infineon. I decided to buy a new trans as apposed to rebuilding it and came across a site called 5speed.com. I called the owner and was enquiring about their dog ring clutchless trans and he talked me into buying their M-22 trans that he builds for a road racing vintage Jaguar series that runs out on the east coast.

They call this M-22 a Spec 25. Supposively its good for 800 ft/lbs of torque. When I bought it back in 2006 it retailed for $2100 but I recently visited the site and they are now going for $2700. So far the tranny has treated me well and I change oil after every track day.

As far as rear ratios, I really like the 3:42's. I could probably go to 3:55's but keep in mind, being on a budget means trying to keep the rpm's down so that you can try and save motor and continue to have fun.

I am still using the Baer Track/Touring brakes on my car and the 2nd to last time out on the track I thought I was due for an upgrade because the brakes were starting to fade around the 5th lap. Turns out it could have possibly been the brake fluid over heating. I went to Motul 660 brake fluid and the last time at the track they worked great so I'm hoping it was just the brake fluid.

Bummer about those Vette wheels... I thought they really looked great on there. Makes me wonder if my car will feel and track much differently once I get some correctly sized wheels and ditch the big spacers.

I think that pretty much puts me up to date as far as what the car is running. I did forget to mention that I was running the stock lower control arms up until recently picking up the Global West lowers to match the uppers. The car handled great with the stock LCA's but I thought it would be benificial to add the new lowers. I also intend on adding a few other photo's of what Vince at Deamspeedmotors did but all in good time.

So the latest are the new Afco front springs and adjustable spring spacers.

After installing the new Global West lower control arms the poly spring base raised the car about an inch and a quarter. I pulled the springs out again, cut them, and dropped the car too low which limited my travel.

I noticed the diffference my last track dat at Buttonwillow. At initial turn in the car pushed a bit and I'm pretty sure I was bottoming out on my bump stops.

So being a budget build this is my next solution to that problem. I picked up some Afco adjustable spring spacers along with 2 sets of springs. The springs in the pic's are 650 lb. I also ordered a set of 600 lb and will try them both to see which work the best.

The springs are 9 1/2" tall and the spacers at lowest setting are 3" tall. I'm going to cut an inch off the top of the adjustable spacer. I'm also thinking about welding studs at the top of the spacers and drilling holes at the top of the spring pocket so that I can bolt the spacer in. Then I want to weld the spring to the spacer so that I could adjust height by turning the spring. Thats all here say for now as I wont know what I'm getting into until installation but I'm pretty sure thats how it will play out.



http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/a...Springs010.jpg

You never know until you try. Bummer thing about it is that wheels aren't cheap.

My Vette wheels are sold and I am currently rolling the car around on a buddies borrowed set of wheels. I am currently working with Zak at Boze to decide on a color combo for my new set of wheels. I decided on their new Track wheel that they recently came up with.

Good call on those springs/spacers. Its what I use. 650 is a little light on the spring though, you might want to step up to at least 750. I wouldn't worry about welding the springs, they're working fine for me.

Very cool, thanks for the info James!! I figured 650's only because I knocked 200 lbs off the front end. What do you think?

Wonder if any of you or anybody else can answer this question. If you cut a coil off a conventional spring does it raise the spring rate?

I have been told yes from one and no from another.

Hey Gae - I was only bustin' yer nuts about the motor leak. You know I've been a fan, and I know what PIA it was when you had to crate the montser back up and ship it out, not to mention the wasted trac day!

And there still more to the journey, right! The brakes that never went on for all the right reasons, the 'other' set of Boze wheels you almost went with, the consideration for a fender stretch (which would of busted the budget). And through all that you, posted vids of passing the field and lowering your track times.

I think you and Vince & Crew have done a great job and given me lots to think about in my build! Props Bro...:cheers:

You might give Cannon Racecraft a call. They manufacture custom springs for numerous applications.

I don't think the rate changes as it is more wire diameter and other build spec dimensions.

With bikes the critical measurements when determening spring rates are static sag (amount vehicle sags under it's own weight) and ride sag (amount of sag with rider and vehicle) the primary objective is to keep the shock valving in the sweet spot of the stroke over the majority of the course. Off-road bikes they have three stages of compression valving, if the spring allows the shock to ride too low into the mid-stroke the suspension get harsh and corner grip is impacted. I'm not sure how progressive valving is in vehicles though.

I do know that Cannon RC can build springs to your spec and needs.

Actually I was talking about the changes made...DSE bar, modified supension mounting points, weight loss and driver changes. but thank you for the props.

We will build it so your kid can hop in and kill a track. :D



The rate will increase and its kinda hard to put your brain around.

If you remove a coil from the total height the spring rate will increase. Its a cumulative effect of ALL the coils together when calculated.
http://www.engineersedge.com/spring_comp_calc_k.htm

good info here.
http://www.corner-carvers.com/forums...il+spring+rate

sorry got cut off.....custom springs are the best way to go cause they are tailored to your specific vehicle, weight, wheel rate and usage. How are his prices sieg?

thanks for the info,

vince

Vince,

Give them a call and get a quote, my only experience is with KTM off-road bikes and their pricing has been comparable to the OEM WP Suspension springs. Friends have put their springs through serious off-road events (100 mile, 3-5 hour stuff) including 24 hour events with good results.

http://www.cannonracecraft.com/

Man Ron, you've got a great memmory, and yes sir, the journey never really does end does it!!

Thanks for the props, bud!! :cheers:


Thats pretty interesting information. As soon as Vince gets a break we are going to have to discuss shocks. Thanks for the input.

You're welcome!

Even if the shocks aren't progessively valved I'd think you'd still want to keep the car riding in the "meat" (20% top/60% mid/20% bottom) of the stroke. Something to consider in the never-ending qwest for the ultimate track day set-up :D

The spring rate calculator that Vince posted was good info for me. :thumbsup:

So Phase 3 of my build begins. I installed my Afco front springs a couple weeks ago and my Forgelines and rear NT-01's showed up today so I got them mounted up.
I originally ordered them with a polished lip but then called back after about a week and told them all satin black. Going to shoot for a little more sinister look.
Next step is to take the subframe and raise it approximately 2" up into the floor so that I could still have ample travel while still keeping the car low. Then I will work on tying the satin black wheels in with the paint scheme.

I weighed the wheels and the fronts are 16 lbs and the rears are 18 lbs. I hope my scale isn't off because I'm really liking those numbers.


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Look's Awesome.This car would Rock w/a VRP sub frame under it.:thumbsup: