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-   -   Tru Trac or Wavetrac (https://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php?t=36551)

FETorino 04-21-2012 07:20 PM

Tru Trac or Wavetrac
 
Anyone out there have experience with both of these differentials. At some point I will need to build a new third member for my car. I have narrowed the choice between these two.

It will be going in a speedway engineering full floater housing.

I think the Tru Trac can fill the bill as a good dependable street/opentrack/autocross diff.

badmatt 04-21-2012 09:40 PM

another good one is stranges S-trac seams to work well into the low 9's :)

Vegas69 04-21-2012 09:47 PM

I've been really happy with my Tru Trac.

out2kayak 04-21-2012 09:48 PM

For what it's worth, I flipped coin on the Wavetrac in a Ford 9" 35 spline format (from Moser).

I have not had my vehicle rolling yet, but after a ton of research and talking with Moser, it sounded like it would work in a twin turbo LSX environment.

:cheers:

Rod P 04-21-2012 10:21 PM

go with the tru trac I drive the hell outta mine works great!! as a daily driver car and at the track

heres my car at RTTC

http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/x...96796888_n.jpg

FETorino 04-21-2012 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rod P (Post 409318)
go with the tru trac I drive the hell outta mine works great!! as a daily driver car and at the track

heres may car at RTTC

http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/x...96796888_n.jpg

That is motivating......... :hail: Sweet car.:thumbsup:

Andrew 04-22-2012 08:56 AM

I'll start off by saying I don't presently own either but will be purchasing one soon and that will definitely be a wavetrac.

I've spent hours reading about them both and watching videos and the wavetrac is the superior unit in my mind. More options, it's customizable to your preference, a proven lifetime warranty when a couple of the 1st gen designs were being broken, and it continues to operate in low to no traction events.

They are both good carriers but imo the wavetrac is superior and stronger then a comparable true-trac, which I believe in a 9" is rated for 600hp(?) and the second gen wavetracs being rated for 1000hp+.



Andrew 04-22-2012 08:57 AM

at the risk of sounding like a wavetrac rep here is some additional info,

Quote:

The Wavetrac® differential uses a patent pending design to improve grip in low traction conditions. Precisely engineered, converging / diverging wave profiles are placed on one side gear and its mating preload hub. As the two side gears rotate relative to each other, each wave surface climbs the other, causing them to move apart. This imparts an increased normal force through the side gears, increasing the bias ratio as a function of load. This increase occurs automatically only when conditions find it necessary, and it 'reverts' back to its nominal bias ratio quickly and seamlessly, maintaining optimal drivability and performance at all times. It's like having two differentials in one: you get the benefit of a higher bias ratio when needed without detriment to the car's handling. Interchangeable Friction Plates Provide Controlled Bias.

Here's something else you won't find in any other design:
The Wavetrac® diff's behavior can be altered in the field to suit your needs. It comes standard with carbon-fiber bias plates for the best all around performance. Interchangeable plates using materials with different friction coefficients to fine-tune the bias ratio are sold separately.
These friction plates provide a mechanism to tune the response of the differential as a function of applied torque load. The applied torque load manifests itself as an axial load from the differential pinions into the housing. This axial force is then considered a normal force into the friction plate, and as a function of the effective coefficient of friction, will provide a resistive torque to the rotational motion of the differential pinions. The resistive torque will add to the resistance of relative rotation of all components within the differential. The resistive force, however, is non-uniform since it is a function of the axial load from the differential pinions. The unbalance of the resistive torque will manifest as non-uniform energy absorption within the differential causing a bias ratio.

Designed from a clean sheet, the new Wavetrac® Differential brings current gear technology to the market. Internally, its gear tooth forms are optimized for strength and improved oil film retention over competitive designs. Our gear package is smaller, reducing overall mass, yet is more durable. Attention was also paid to the side gear/axle interface, putting as much material thickness as possible in this critical area - most important when power levels get high.

Each Wavetrac® Differential is crafted from the highest quality materials available. The internal gears are made from high strength 9310 alloy steel. The diff bodies are machined from case hardened steel billet. To complete the package, every Wavetrac® differential is built exclusively using high quality, high strength fasteners from ARP®, the world leader in fastener technology.

THE WAVETRAC® AT A GLANCE:

• Innovative:
Patent pending Wavetrac® design automatically improves grip in low traction conditions. This feature is truly innovative and unlike any other torque biasing diff design.
• Superior Materials:
9310 steel gears run in case-hardened billet steel bodies. ARP® fasteners used throughout.
• Maintenance Free:
As supplied new, the Wavetrac® differential will perform a lifetime of service without maintenance or rebuilds.
• Customizable:
If desired, you can alter the diff’s behavior to suit your needs using optional components.
• Limited LIFETIME Warranty:
All Wavetrac® differentials include a transferable, Limited Lifetime Warranty.

WHAT MAKES A WAVETRAC® DIFFERENT
To best understand how the Wavetrac® is truly different from the other gear differentials on the market, you first have to understand the primary problem that the Wavetrac® solves.
The problem: Loss of drive during zero or near-zero axle-load conditions.
Zero axle-load is a condition that occurs during normal driving, but creates the most noticeable problems when driving in extreme conditions. Zero or near-zero axle-load is the condition that exists when there is ‘no-load’ applied through the drivetrain, when one drive wheel is nearly or completely lifted (often in aggressive cornering). It also occurs during the transition from engine driving a vehicle to engine braking and back, even with both drive wheels firmly on the ground.

Here’s how that loss of drive hurts you:
1) If you lift a wheel, all gear diffs except Wavetrac®, will NOT power the other wheel.
2) During the transition from accel to decel, all gear diffs except Wavetrac®, do nothing.

Why does this happen?
All gear LSDs (including Torsen®, Truetrac®, Quaife®, Peloquin, OBX, etc.) work in basically the same manner: they divide the drive torque between the two axles, applying drive to each side, up to the available grip of each tire. The amount of drive torque one wheel can get over the other is described as the bias ratio, a measure of the torque split across the axle.
Standard, open differentials have a bias ratio of 1:1. They can only apply as much drive torque as there is available traction at one wheel. When one wheel loses grip, the total available drive is lost as well (at a 1:1 ratio). All your power goes out the slipping wheel - along the path of least resistance.
Torque biasing differentials offer increased bias ratios over open differentials. For example, if a diff has a bias ratio of 2.5:1, then it can apply drive torque to the wheel with the most traction (gripping wheel) at 2.5 times the traction limit of the wheel with the least traction (slipping wheel). This is a significant improvement over an open diff… most of the time.
The problem is that when one tire has LITTLE or NO grip (zero axle-load), the other wheel gets ZERO DRIVE, because (basic math here): 2.5 x 0 = 0.
Lift a wheel (or substantially unload a wheel) and you get zero axle-load on that side - that means that during the time the wheel is unloaded, the typical diff will NOT power the wheel that’s still on the ground. No matter how high the bias ratio, you get no power to the ground.
During the transition from accel to decel, where you have near zero torque on the axle, even if the wheels are on the ground, the typical diff is unable to begin applying drive torque until AFTER the zero torque condition is over. While this condition is generally short-lived, the fact that most diffs can do nothing during that time means that there will be a delay once the zero torque condition stops - creating a reaction time in the driveline.

The Wavetrac®, however, is different:
The innovative, patent-pending, Wavetrac® device in the center of the diff responds during these exact conditions when zero or near-zero axle-load occurs. At or near zero axle-load, the axles (and therefore each side gear in the diff) start to turn at different speeds.
This speed differential causes the Wavetrac® device to step into action:
Precisely engineered wave profiles are placed on one side gear and its mating preload hub. As the two side gears rotate relative to each other, each wave surface climbs the other, causing them to move apart.
Very quickly, this creates enough internal load within the Wavetrac® to STOP the zero axle-load condition.
The zero axle-load condition is halted, and the drive torque is applied to the wheel on the ground (the gripping wheel)… keeping the power down.
Some gear differentials rely solely on preload springs to combat loss of drive. The drawback is that you can’t add enough preload to prevent loss of drive without creating tremendous handling and wear problems at the same time. So, to avoid these problems, the preload from ordinary spring packs must be reduced to a level that renders them ineffective at preventing loss of drive. The Wavetrac® is the only differential that can automatically add more load internally when it’s required.
In the case where both wheels are on the ground during zero axle load, such as during a transition to deceleration, the Wavetrac® device is able to prepare the drivetrain for when the zero torque condition stops, eliminating the delay seen with ordinary gear diffs.
What this means for you as a driver is that power is delivered to the gripping wheels for more time and in a more constant manner – making you faster and improving stability.
The Wavetrac® truly is different - and its innovative features can make a real difference in your car’s performance.

Here’s something else you won’t find in any other design:
The Wavetrac® diff’s behavior can be altered in the field to suit your needs. It comes standard with carbon-fiber bias plates for the best all around performance and lifetime durability. Changeable plates using materials with different friction coefficients to fine-tune the bias ratio are sold separately.
These bias plates provide a mechanism to tune the response of the differential as a function of applied torque load. The applied torque load manifests itself as an axial load from the differential pinions into the housing. This axial force is then considered a normal force into the bias plate, and as a function of the effective coefficient of friction, provide a resistive torque to the rotational motion of the differential pinions. The resistive torque will add to the resistance of relative rotation of all components within the differential. The resistive force, however, is non-uniform since it is a function of the axial load from the differential pinions. The unbalance of the resistive torque will manifest as non-uniform energy absorption within the differential causing a bias ratio.

BBC71Nova 04-22-2012 11:34 AM

If you are considering a Wavetrac I'd also take a look at the Strange S-trac. Very nice piece.

That said, unless you plan on hitting the strip with sticky tires or have over 600hp, the Tru-trac seems like a solid and proven performer for few hundred dollars less.

hotrod69camaro 04-22-2012 12:17 PM

Im very happy with the Tru-trac thats in my car.

Bryce 04-22-2012 01:02 PM

The wave track still has a torque bias. If one tire is spinning the other tire will get 3 times the torque applied to the slipping tire assuming it setup to 3:1. THE one advantage of the wavetrack is when one tire gets zero applied torque then the other gets 100%.

I personally love my detroit locker. FYI, circle track lockers are unique and not a good comparison to an off the shelf locker from eaton.

Vegas69 04-22-2012 05:10 PM

Off roaders give the true trac good reviews and they are getting into much higher differences in traction from axle to axle. I just don't see a situation where a truetrac isn't sufficient in a pro touring car.

I would need to check but my 33 spline truetrac is rated at 700 or 800 hp.

FETorino 04-22-2012 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vegas69 (Post 409410)
Off roaders give the true trac good reviews and they are getting into much higher differences in traction from axle to axle. I just don't see a situation where a truetrac isn't sufficient in a pro touring car.

I would need to check but my 33 spline truetrac is rated at 700 or 800 hp.

I actually run one in my wife's 75 Bronco. If a wheel comes off the ground you tap the brakes and it acts like a locker.

It sounds like the extra money for a wavetrac would be better spent on shift upgrades for my T56.

Vegas69 04-22-2012 05:27 PM

Do your own due diligence but it's been rock solid in my car and we have similar power.

FETorino 04-22-2012 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vegas69 (Post 409414)
Do your own due diligence but it's been rock solid in my car and we have similar power.

Thanks. I have had good luck with the unit in a Bronco I just wanted to see if it was holding up in this environment. I appreciate the hands on advice.:thumbsup:

I wont tell any of the BBC guys you said that we hae similar power if you don't tell any of the FE crowd I agree.:rofl:

6D9 Matt 04-23-2012 10:26 AM

Im going with a Moser 9" with 35-spline wavetrac (vs a 31-spline truetrac). Gonna get it done right the first time and not have to worry. Plus the lifetime warranty is nice.

:unibrow:

Ron in SoCal 04-23-2012 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6D9 Matt (Post 409543)
Im going with a Moser 9" with 35-spline wavetrac (vs a 31-spline truetrac). Gonna get it done right the first time and not have to worry. Plus the lifetime warranty is nice.

:unibrow:

I'm curious as to the additional parasitic drag and if that's even an issue at any HP level w those big axles? I'm all for overbuilding the drivetrain and love the warranty though, just want to look at all the angles. :thumbsup:

Matt@BOS 04-23-2012 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6D9 Matt (Post 409543)
Im going with a Moser 9" with 35-spline wavetrac (vs a 31-spline truetrac). Gonna get it done right the first time and not have to worry. Plus the lifetime warranty is nice.

:unibrow:

What makes you think a Tru Trac with 31 spline axles wouldn't get it done right the first time. I'm not saying you're making the wrong decision, just don't want people to feel they need to steer clear of 31 spline axles or Tru Tracs. Hell, I think I put the most stress on my car back when it had 400 at the wheels. In my opinion, none of our cars can launch hard enough, or run sticky enough tires to worry about that part of the drive train. With my car making mid 500s at the wheels, I'm really not concerned about breaking these parts in question. I haven't shied away from running my car hard, and plan on running it harder in the future. Who knows, maybe I will eat my words. That would suck though, I'm really tired of replacing parts already. :lol:

Matt

6D9 Matt 04-23-2012 03:20 PM

Well I will say, I plan on putting down 700+ on the dyno down the road, and might throw some slicks on the car as well when I get serious about running some times (not anytime soon with the little crate 350 I have now).

Many people I have seen/talked to do great wit the truetrac... great unit! Im just building it up a little extra the first time and spending the money now, rather than MAYBE later (after I either break it, or want to upgrade again). :thumbsup:

sik68 04-23-2012 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt.A (Post 409557)
What makes you think a Tru Trac with 31 spline axles wouldn't get it done right the first time. I'm not saying you're making the wrong decision, just don't want people to feel they need to steer clear of 31 spline axles or Tru Tracs. Hell, I think I put the most stress on my car back when it had 400 at the wheels. In my opinion, none of our cars can launch hard enough, or run sticky enough tires to worry about that part of the drive train. With my car making mid 500s at the wheels, I'm really not concerned about breaking these parts in question. I haven't shied away from running my car hard, and plan on running it harder in the future. Who knows, maybe I will eat my words. That would suck though, I'm really tired of replacing parts already. :lol:

Matt

:yes: I didn't see any Vin Diesel launches at RTTC. Maybe 200tw is to prevent wheelies!

Road courses, where you're maybe only in 3rd or 4th gear, you aren't putting serious torque multiplication through the rearend compared to a 1st gear drag launch. You can save some weight & inertia by opting for a smaller spline count.

FETorino 04-23-2012 05:13 PM

Well as I mentioned I am going with a speedway full floater which they normally spec with 31 spine inner count.

Ron in SoCal 04-23-2012 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FETorino (Post 409617)
Well as I mentioned I am going with a speedway full floater which they normally spec with 31 spine inner count.

Better update you sig line then...:D

Which floater did you choose, the GN? I was down there a couple of weeks ago and they have lots of options, even 35 spline...:thumbsup:

Bryce 04-23-2012 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt.A (Post 409557)
What makes you think a Tru Trac with 31 spline axles wouldn't get it done right the first time. I'm not saying you're making the wrong decision, just don't want people to feel they need to steer clear of 31 spline axles or Tru Tracs. Hell, I think I put the most stress on my car back when it had 400 at the wheels. In my opinion, none of our cars can launch hard enough, or run sticky enough tires to worry about that part of the drive train. With my car making mid 500s at the wheels, I'm really not concerned about breaking these parts in question. I haven't shied away from running my car hard, and plan on running it harder in the future. Who knows, maybe I will eat my words. That would suck though, I'm really tired of replacing parts already. :lol:

Matt

I launch my drag mustang at 6200rpm with the wheels up on 11" slicks with 31 spline mose axles. No issues.

FETorino 04-23-2012 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron in SoCal (Post 409635)
Better update you sig line then...:D

Which floater did you choose, the GN? I was down there a couple of weeks ago and they have lots of options, even 35 spline...:thumbsup:

Yea when the chassis get a little farther along and I've gone all in on some of the decisions I'll put a detailed list on my build thread.

I have a couple cars with 31 spline 9 inch rears so the idea of sticking with 31 spline and being able to try out a couple of my gear combos before building the final product appeals to me.

I'm not going to be doing any 5000rpm clutch dumps with slicks so I don't know if 35 spline is necessary. Ken at Speedway was steering me to the Mod Lite. I need to talk to Phil next week about which housing they usually use in their builds. I like the idea of less unsprung weight of the ModLite vs the GN.

John510 04-23-2012 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6D9 Matt (Post 409543)
Im going with a Moser 9" with 35-spline wavetrac (vs a 31-spline truetrac). Gonna get it done right the first time and not have to worry. Plus the lifetime warranty is nice.

:unibrow:

Your T56 would snap before you broke a trutrac and axle.

33 would be fine if you want the extra safety. Just trying to save you some $$$

Ron in SoCal 04-23-2012 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FETorino (Post 409639)
Yea when the chassis get a little farther along and I've gone all in on some of the decisions I'll put a detailed list on my build thread.

I have a couple cars with 31 spline 9 inch rears so the idea of sticking with 31 spline and being able to try out a couple of my gear combos before building the final product appeals to me.

I'm not going to be doing any 5000rpm clutch dumps with slicks so I don't know if 35 spline is necessary. Ken at Speedway was steering me to the Mod Lite. I need to talk to Phil next week about which housing they usually use in their builds. I like the idea of less unsprung weight of the ModLite vs the GN.

Yeah I hear you, those things are heavy! I spoke to Frank @ Speedway...very knowledgable guy. I could be wrong, but I think the ModLte was 26 spline at the axle end?

Vegas69 04-23-2012 06:59 PM

If you guys figure out a way to launch a pro touring car well enough to break a 31 spline axle or true trac, please clue me in because I want to join you.

The best 60 foot times I've seen on a pro touring car is in the mid 1.7 second range and that was bad penny on drag radials. Hell it might have been 1.8's. That's pitiful in the drag world.

Matt@BOS 04-23-2012 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vegas69 (Post 409653)
If you guys figure out a way to launch a pro touring car well enough to break a 31 spline axle or true trac, please clue me in because I want to join you.

The best 60 foot times I've seen on a pro touring car is in the mid 1.7 second range and that was bad penny on drag radials. Hell it might have been 1.8's. That's pitiful in the drag world.

... Don't forget, Steve did that by using a special torque management device called a clutch. :lol: I just remember that image of his car launching pouring smoke from under the car, instead of behind it. Still, I'd say a burnt up clutch was worth the Wally he won.

Anyway, Steve said he is going to be getting Penny ready for a little drag strip action. One of the cool things about the Lateral Dynamics three link is that the upper control arm has a few different mounting settings so he can get more anti-squat out of it than he had when running at Fontana last year when he set those times.

Matt

Vegas69 04-23-2012 10:01 PM

I wouldn't borrow that guy a rock and 2x4. He'd bring them back broke.:lol:

Vegas69 04-24-2012 08:16 AM

I called into Moser this morning and they are saying that a 33 spline 12 bolt is rated at 600-650hp for a high rpm launch. The axles are rated higher but the carrier is the weak link. With a spool it will go 800hp. He noted that non of the posi carriers are made for high rpm drag launches. Unless you can launch at high rpm on a drag strip, it's not a variable. So, 35 spline axles are overkill.

FETorino 04-24-2012 08:49 AM

Something has to break first. I think I'll run a 1310 u joint as a warning light:rofl:

Vegas69 04-24-2012 09:20 AM

I plan on heading back out to the strip later this year. Hoping to get this thing to hook better so I'll likely take it to the limit for pro touring. If it breaks, I'll be proud.:rolleyes:

6D9 Matt 04-24-2012 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John510 (Post 409642)
Your T56 would snap before you broke a trutrac and axle.

33 would be fine if you want the extra safety. Just trying to save you some $$$

It has a T56 magnum in it right now... but hey, never know. :D

Also from what I remember, Moser didnt have 33-spline in the 9" rear application. Im not saying its not overkill, I just dont want to have to worry.

Everyones opinion is going to be different about it, hence why they are opinions. But I have talked to a few people around here that have broke 31-spline True Trac applications, and a lot less with the 9". So said screw it and the beefed up 9" is my route... :thumbsup:

Greg from Aus 04-24-2012 09:13 PM

Well I like over overkill, so Ive got the 35 Wave Track and a Rockland T56 Magnum Tranzilla, so hopefully I will be just fine. :lol: :_paranoid

Greg

FETorino 04-24-2012 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonner (Post 409917)
Well I like over overkill, so Ive got the 35 Wave Track and a Rockland T56 Magnum Tranzilla, so hopefully I will be just fine. :lol: :_paranoid

Greg

Have you had the wavetrac on the track? When I started the thread I was hoping to get some feedback from anyone running each piece. A few guys with Trutacs on the road courses have chimed in. What about the wavetrac any roadrace or autocross time on it?

Greg from Aus 04-24-2012 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FETorino (Post 409949)
Have you had the wavetrac on the track? When I started the thread I was hoping to get some feedback from anyone running each piece. A few guys with Trutacs on the road courses have chimed in. What about the wavetrac any roadrace or autocross time on it?

No sorry mine is still in build.

Greg

6D9 Matt 04-25-2012 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonner (Post 409917)
Well I like over overkill, so Ive got the 35 Wave Track and a Rockland T56 Magnum Tranzilla, so hopefully I will be just fine. :lol: :_paranoid

Greg

VERY nice! :cheers:

66SuperSport 04-26-2012 11:34 AM

Have the 31 spline set up in my car and fragged a TruTrac diff. last year at a GoodGuys autocross. Put in a Wave and the car now seems to rotate much better on tight slow speed corners. Awesome warranty too.

Vegas69 04-26-2012 07:36 PM

Good info Chris. Did you change anything else at the same time?

66SuperSport 04-26-2012 08:18 PM

No other changes. The gear was fine so it was just reinstalled too.
The car seemed to want to push a little, but when we switched the diff. that completely went away. It's possible the TruTrac was messed up and that it was not releasing properly causing the push too. Maybe that's why it popped. It's much better now though.


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