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Someday, My 68 Camaro will be...
My 68 Camaro, “Someday”.
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...8709202802.jpg http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...arscbob001.jpg http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...011015-1-1.jpg Forgive the long first post, I felt the need to spill it and get this started. A word of warning though, I have more to say.:rolleyes: I have been a member here since 2008 after meeting :lateral: site owner Scott at CarCraft in St. Paul. Lately I have been inspired by several ongoing threads to get my story out there. I have been a bit hung up as I thought on several occasions about a project or build name... or rather a name for my Camaro. While I realize that the name is not what is important, it is an identity and worth considering. Lots of them here are pretty cool. Most really tell you something about the builders intent or give some insight into either the person or the sentiment behind the build. I considered several variations that have to do with Fire since my car was painted with subdued flames in ‘96 and has ironically survived two garage fires in ‘99 and ‘07. I thought for awhile that something synonymous with resilience, Tenacity(taken already), or perseverance would be fitting to the point that I found myself searching an online thesaurus to come up with a cool buzzword to sum it all up. Pro-crastination has been used, but I do it often enough I didn't want the moniker attached to me as well as it fits. Mostly, I thought of my 23 year history with the car, 15 or so of which it has been parked for one reason or another. Time, Money and know-how never seemed to align. Like many here life takes presidence whether it is relationships, kids, mortgage, other hobbies etc... So our cars wait. As it is though, my project is pretty mundane by most "build" standards. Rather than Pro-Touring Someday and I are more likely to be viewed in the Resto-mod / Joe-Touring / Pro-Jackstand classification. It can certainly be seen as backwards as I am trying to work within the confines of existing appearance and condition until time, money or a whole heap of know-how converge. In fact, I feel a little silly calling it a project amongst the company that frequents these boards. I am just a guy who's had his car a long time with a vision of how it would be Someday. I looked around and in all my searches did not find another with the name and that I think it fits. It does not sound overly serious or intense, which is appropriate. It represents waiting and hoping for something that will happen... and believing in it until that Someday comes along... no matter how long it takes. For all the times I have said, “Someday, my Camaro will be...” By now you get the idea behind the name.:yes: Drive-ability and seat time are immediate priorities... it has quite simply been too long. There can always be more revisions or phases “Someday” down the road. The main purpose of my thread is to share what I am doing with like-minded individuals for support and encouragement. There is more knowledge here than I will have in a lifetime and since I have had my Camaro for more than half my life I should be smart enough to take advantage of advice... (Notice he said “should be”) I have enjoyed the camaraderie shared in other project threads and feedback so I hope Someday will inspire that on some level. The Plan- the all important plan: As important as a project plan is how does one know when to stop changing the plan? Change is expensive, that is how. Powerplant: Engine will due for now. The rest of the drivetrain, brakes and suspension come first as those were the components that annoyed me the most back in the day. Original numbers matching 327 block, rebuilt in the early 1990’s...030” over, Crane Fireball II 302h cam, 241 Camelbacks with 2.02 SS valves, hardened seats and stamped roller rockers. 10:1 pistons, I’m not sure where that compression ratio may have gone with these heads’ chambers. Currently topped with an early non-airgap Edelbrock Performer RPM intake. Fuel System: Currently Edelbrock 600cfm Performer carb. Also have a Barry Grant Speed Demon 650 Vacuum Secondary, thanks Swain. Ricks Tank, EFI tank with low pressure (12psi) in tank pump, clipped corners. Exhaust: Hooker Competition Headers, 3-2 collectors, mid 90’s turbo mufflers in front of the axle and turndowns between fender and leaf spring. Jonesing for maybe Dynatech’s and 2.5” Magnaflow system. Cooling: 9/8/12 Edit: PRC dual fan, dual pass LS style assembly like Payback has. Purchased via PT.com from PSV. Thank you Paul. Formerly OE style radiator and fixed blade flexalyte. It is hard to make that sound adequate or impressive any way you state it. That said, it didn't let me down even in a '97 parade at 100*+ I've been looking at / talked to PRC(Musclerodz and Prodigy), Ryan @ Universal and Sparky @ R&D Fab. B&M polished Aluminum water pump Milodon high flow ‘stat drilled for bypass ala Huntimer Transmission: I'll be tossing the third th350 that I have had built in this car since I’ve owned it in favor of a full T56 Magnum close ratio conversion with American Powertrain. As Sieg recently told me, the Trans makes the Car. Rear Differential: Swapping my original 8.2”10 bolt 3.08 one wheel wonder for another with Richmond 3.73, Eaton Posi, Strange Axles and disc brakes. Not all the kids can be cool enough to have a 12 bolt or a 9” even if we’d like to. Maybe “Someday” I can get one. Front Suspension and Steering: AGR 12:1 steering gear with firm valving with a little Lat-G history belonging to Xcyz’s ‘69 at one time. AGR OE style pump in OE reservoir. All new steering linkage, I/O tie rods, idler and pitman arm. “Air Ride Technologies” tie rod adjusters. (Now Ridetech, LOL) Hellwig 1 1/8" Tubular front swaybar soon, ATS tall spindles (will go on with Wilwood 13’s) Hotchkis 2” drop front coils for SBC Hotchkis/Bilstein HKS 2000 shock absorbers SPC tubular lower control arms, with ride height tuning kit. Need adjustable jounce bumpers Speedtech High Clearance upper arm? Just can’t get past that multi-piece SPC upper arm and don’t need that on my mind entering a corner. Pro-Forged looks to have another cool high clearance upper arm coming out but it is a ways off yet as I write this. Chassis: OE subframe... “sigh”. Pending frame shop diagnosis, currently seeking an alternate stock sub to give some TLC and swap in. Competition Engineering bolt-in subframe connectors. (Hey, there weren’t many choices in ‘92!) Rear suspension: currently OEM monoleaf soon, Global West L2-R2 2” drop reverse eye leaf springs, 103sh delrin shackles, 1038 mono-multi conversion Hotchkis/Bilstein HKS 2000 rear shock absorbers Brakes: Depending on the length of time I am running the SSBC kit complete clamping the binders will either be: 1. SSBC A123 kit with 1 ⅛” master cylinder/booster and inline proportioning valve or 2. Wilwood ⅞”(manual) bore master cylinder and combination proportioning valve/distribution block Front = currently, SSBC A123 11” rotors and single piston calipers soon, 13” Wilwood radial mount, 6 piston 140-8921 d/s http://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/Bra...mno=140-8921-D Rear = currently OEM manual drum Have rear disk setup also, but it lacks parking brake feature so I am reluctant to use it. Wheels and Tires: Front =American Racing Torque Thrust II's 17x8, 4.5" Backspace with Fuzion 235/40r17's I feel this front tire is too small, especially in sidewall appearance. A little rubber rake is okay, but not this much. Rear = American Racing Torque Thrust II's 17x9.5, 5.5" Backspace with Fuzion 275/40/r17's Gauges: currently stock speedo and fuel, vdo tach on column, Auto meter mechanical water temperature and oil pressure reside near a B&M trans temp gauge in a 4 pod forward console. The empty hole is covered by a '92 Back to the 50's participant button. Yeah, ...really. Looking at NewVintageUSA, Speedhut and Dakota Digital VHX and similar versions that would combine 6 guages into the factory speedo/fuel two place pod. Other suggestions welcome. Interior and Seats: OEM Black Deluxe interior with console. Originally gold, front seat covers and dash pad replaced in ‘89 with black. Rear seat dyed. kick panels etc... painted or dyed. Full Eastwood Thermocoustic Barrier to go in beginning with the floor and firewall. Roof may get done if the headliner has to come out for any reason. As it is though it looks nice and I do not want to mess with it. Want: Morris Classic Concepts 3 point belts which I’d like to do for user friendly safety enhancement. I’d also like to do TMI sport seats or possibly a sportier front seat that maintains the OE deluxe appearance when custom upholstered. I sat in another club members car with ProCar Ralley’s and liked them. Josh69 had Arizens upholstered in an OE parchment theme and those were nice too, but bolsters were a bit intrusive on entry. Steering wheel = Grant 13” 3 spoke “GT” wheel for now. also still have sewn black leather wrapped OE n90 Deluxe wheel (needs resto) Electrical: Mad Electrical “New System” with trunk mounted battery relocation kit and a few relay kits. Want: Digitails, tail/brake and front marker/TS Sooner or later this Kenwood cassette “pullout” reciever is going away in favor of something that looks OE but talks to an MP3... and goes thump at least a bit. |
Very nice ... Someday probably fits most car's timeline, including mine!
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Thanks Chief!
Hopefully Someday hits the road sooner than later. I have more parts than time right now.
It is threads like yours that have been the biggest inspirations to me. Compared to the resurrections some of you guys are undertaking mine looks like a weekend parts swap...that has taken me years?:( My flywheel and clutch/brake pedals showed up yesterday. Some other minor items for the T56 Magnum trans swap are coming on the 31st, like instructions and clutch alignment tool that didn't make the initial big shipment as it was drop shipped. |
looks like a great project to me. :thumbsup:
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:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Good stuff Robert. :thumbsup:
Regarding the SPC's - While I was measuring my spare subframe last night and realizing the upper left control arm mount appears to be pulled outward the value of SPC's adjustability crossed my mind. Regarding brakes - Give Tobin at Kore3.com a chance to bid a system for you. His knowledge and customer service is equivalent to a 30% discount and his components will perform at least on par. Good seats and a steering wheel are your connections points to the car. Don't save money there and make sure they fit like a good glove. :cheers: |
Thanks everyone:D
Good Advice Sieg, I have been in contact with Tobin, in fact I referred to Norwood in conversation. I will recommend him as often as possible. The SSBC kit I have listed is among the parts I bought last summer. I consider it temporary as I do have the Wilwood stuff I listed already, but have not sourced a rear setup yet. Somebody told me I could run drums and not feel inferior though.;) As for seats and what I have for steering wheels I am making a few compromises in order to arrive at seat time sooner, and will be applying double the elbow grease in those locations as a penalty which I accept. I like to think of it as having a blurry line between stages 1 and 2... or am I on a different number already as it has been 23 years? Wait, Was that stage 1?:lol: |
Robert, your perseverance is impressive. :D
23 years is a long time and glad you've held onto it... you've got a good plan and keep pluggin away. :cheers: |
Not much in the way of progress, call it "Character development"
I know you guys like to be fed with pictures, so to make up for my longwinded first post I will just throw a few pics out tonight with captions. I am not so good at brief explanations but I will try.
After this and a pizza I am going to head back to the garage... the Girlfriend had an outta town softball game for her daughter and tomorrow night is her sons Graduation ceremony. Not that everybody here cares about odometers since most cars are heavily modded and thoroughly gone through... but Someday has 121,531 actual. Motor was done around 117k as I recall but I have it written down somewhere. http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...8509247409.jpg If you read the intro you might have caught the comment about Someday being something of a draw for fires... more on that later. Here is evidence of another close call I had almost forgotten. No fuse blew, the repro cig lighter I had just bought melted so I tossed it out the window. It was not a good test but I learned why the original was probably nonfunctioning.http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...8509240335.jpg. I bet your eye went to that rockin' downtown Kenwood pullout!! :unibrow: Did you even notice the factory AC? That little bit you see below the off and de-ice is a special limited edition vibration dampening anti-annoyance device made entirely of compressed wood fiber. It originally came with a small collection of incendiaries from an adult drinking establishment back in the day. http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...8509243819.jpg Here is another sign of Somedays history with fire. That is a heap of buffing compound sitting on smoke residue that has not been cleaned off the hinges yet. It has been 5 years and I still find that crap lurking in places.http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...8509237953.jpg |
Parts, Parts, Parts!!!
UPS delivered the last of my kit from American Powertrain today.:thumbsup:
I was also greeted by a small box from Global West, PN# 1038 mono to multi-leaf conversion kit~Aluminum. Lower shock plates should be in from DSE on the 5th and the rear end swap will be a go as part of the TH350 to T56 Magnum conversion. Tonight I removed the carpet and console. I have to say I am pleased with my floor. I had seen the passenger side last year when I was wiring and ran cables to the trunk. The drivers side was equally rewarding. The silver lining to having a mechanical oil pressure gauge leak inside the cab? The passenger floor boards are rust proofed!:rolleyes: That is all oil stain, there is no rust to be found... unless you look at the trunk pan that is. Somebody has some cleaning to do on Someday before Thermocoustic barrier goes in.:_paranoid http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...8509241501.jpg http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...8509242660.jpg http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...8509248575.jpg http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...8509249877.jpg |
Email me
I may have some wheels for ya. :thumbsup: |
Way to stick to it and never give up on your car. I've been building on my for over 10 years now. Mine was not in bad shape, but did have rust issues. You have a very nice platform to work from. I look forward to seeing the progress on your car.
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BUT; Promise me if we make a deal don't have the kid that packed the Demon pack the wheels! :D |
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I nabbed this pic off of a Google image search but it is similar to the one I have which is a 13" as I recall. It is a bit on the go-kart side sizewise but it makes getting in/out with a non-tilt column easier.:rolleyes: http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_...0045_large.jpg I know there are some tacky feeling higher end wheels out there but I really don't know where to get them or what to look for off hand. |
Rob,
I went with a "Classic Industries"- bought wheel... 14", OEM-style.. looks and fits great! http://screaminperformance.com/galle...s/IMG_7794.JPG |
Thanks Tango, that wheel has topped my want list since CarCraft 2011 when I saw it in another Camaro.:thumbsup:
It seems 14" is the ticket and I read a comment by Mary Pozzi that indicated there are size restrictions in some event sanctioning rules? (IE. Must be larger than...?) It was something about someone being dq'd for having a wheel 1/4" under the rule.:wow: |
Keep plugging away Robert! :)
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My first post!
How about a MOMO? I love the feel of it. Italian leather! :) Christmas present from the wife! http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/...BS6T8/momo.jpg Liking the project and the background leading up to it. Keep it up. SOMEDAY will be there.... soon. |
That's pretty sexy Rob.:yes:
Ya gotta love a girl that knows what a man wants! :unibrow: I've certainly seen MOMO before. It looks to be a really nice wheel. Are they easy to adapt? Being Italian my mind fills with metric thread issues immediately. Who sells them? Any site sponsors deal in them? SERIOUSLY? First Post?? Wow, obviously not new to the game... I have seen you on PT.com ...just to Lateral G I take it? Welcome! |
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My wife purchased it through Amazon. $232 The first one we got didn't have the horn button and such. She contacted them and they sent a new one out. It arrived the same day I shipped the old one back! Yeah, Kyle Newman sent me over here. The Buttonwillow trackday in California just kind of fizzled out pn PT. He said to check in here. Sure enough there it was and with a lot of S*^T talking! |
Welcome to the jungle Robo-Orange!
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Moved another item off the want list today with MATTS CLASSIC BOWTIES intro special on digitails.
Other than that I can still catch glimpses of light at the end of the tunnel but it looks to be a long winding tunnel... parts are piling up and I have some time off in a week. The garage is beginning to have a visible floor. I also sourced another subframe a few hours away but finding time to retrieve it where my schedule meshes with the other guy is a challenge. Grad parties every weekend in June and I am on call this week which means 12 days straight then 3 off, after which I burned a week of vacation intended for Camaro time.:unibrow: |
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Congrats on building your car. I had mine car 28 years and it sat for 15 years before i got back to it to have mods done..keep at it..:cheers: |
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I can't recall who I got this pic from, he was a member on one of the car forums and I think a pastor as I recall. It is a little pixilated when blown up but I still like it and it's various meanings. I use it as my Avatar on the local club forum. http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...3996650155.jpg |
I am mocking up some parts for my rear suspension and was evaluating a rear differential I bought last summer. I was pretty disappointed when I saw this when I took the leaf springs off of it. These are 1/2" U-bolts already.
Passenger side, good to go. http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...9271185112.jpg http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...9271193360.jpg Drivers side, not so much... http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...9271188862.jpg http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...9271187058.jpg http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...9271191533.jpg While I realize the u-bolts are not even captured on some rear diff's and do the job just fine I was going to use Global West's mono-multi kit 1038 which uses some plates on top and 7/16" fine thread grade 8 bolts in place of u-bolts or the OEM t-bolts. I do not like the sloppy holes on the drivers side where someone got over enthusiastic with a large bit and power drill, and it appears the holes elongated from there even.:_paranoid There was 1" lowering blocks drilled and tapped for locating studs or bolts but the studs to locate the axles were not found when I took it apart. I could move the drivers side leaf left to right 4-5 inches if I held the front eye and the u-bolts were only finger tight... although I do not know if they had been loosened prior to removal and just left snug. My girlfriends little brother is a machinist and we are collaborating to make this right and I will be using a hybrid between what DSE and GW offer for mono-multi leaf conversions. I'll post pics when we have some hard parts in hand. |
I have a couple of acquisitions to report.
First, from 15 miles North of Duluth MN http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...1798273470.jpg http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...1798274392.jpg http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...1798272492.jpg The subframe has light surface rust on it from sitting for 15 years, but came from AZ 20 years ago as part of a '69 which donated it's shell to a restoration. AND more recently, in fact it is in transit due here Wednesday... http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...Camaro/002.jpg http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...Camaro/003.jpg Also, in the interim since posting we moved again:rolleyes: ... back to where I lived before so setting up my garage how it had been was pretty easy, stuffing more parts in it not so much. I have most of the things on wheels or dollies now so moving this/that out of the way is less tedious. Two moves in 10 months and all the time leading up to and settling back in from basically cost us a good year.:( |
Good looking frame. Who's radiator is that? Stop moving!:D
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Believe me Bro' I have stopped. Lesson in futility there lemmee tell ya.
The house I am sitting in "sold" for my asking price in 8 days once I listed it after a bunch of fuss to make it "just so". The appraisal came in lower than the purchase agreement by too much to make up... The buyer was doing an FHA loan. Property values and market instability killed the deal.:mad: That is a PRC radiator. similar to what Todd has in Payback which is testimonial enough for me, he even bought another after drilling a hole in the core of his first one. :brix: I may have snow accumulation until I up my horsepower and run the AC on high in July!:lol: |
Who can tell me what those two tabs are off the crossmember adjacent to each motor mount perch? What engine would those be used with?
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Right? Rear quarters and such? It doesn't affect my world since the subs match but I was curious. I wondered if it could have been a 6 cylinder bracket and none of my Camaro parts catalog searches showed them. |
Maybe the frame had been swapped out at some point in the cars life?
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I guess anything is possible but one thing I noticed is that the ball joints and anything else I inspected was original. Seems kind of odd for a frame-off to me.
However, I also noticed some odd healthy looking drums up front with much larger fins than mine had been. Eventually I can compare them side by side but stuff is all packed in totes and the sub is stored 7 miles away. Either way it is just trivia at this point. I only cared about the "H" itself as a solid and straight foundation. I intend to get it cleaned up, install my "cool parts" and swap subs. |
Grrrrr...
Well, somebody else shared far worse project news than this lately... but here is my latest setback.:mad: I bought a new radiator and this is how it arrived. It appears something pierced the box and struck the mounting flange with enough force to twist it and it even pulled away from the tank between welds. The box did not show any external damage and packing was great. I had to look fairly hard and play CSI to find the cut in the box. So far so good dealing with Fedex. I hope the trend continues. http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...4463174803.jpg http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...4463182743.jpg http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...4463175809.jpg http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...8052012030.jpg Here is a link to a public photobucket album I made too. Radiator damage pics |
Robert, very cool story behind the build thread. I dig the selection of the name "Someday".
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You my friend, I have noticed possess much talent and creativity... along with some cool toys with which to employ both. :thumbsup: |
Oh man, sorry to see such a nice radiator damaged right out of the box. Glad to hear FedEx is taking care of it for you though.
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Today was a total stall. I need an RGA from the manufacturer and they had IT problems yesterday, and the fellow I spoke with was off today. Hopefully Monday I can align the proverbial ducks and get the ball rolling. It was insured to value but already signed for when the lower corner was discovered. I damn near chased the truck down. :faint: |
I know that story all too well. It sucks at times building these cars. You'll get it all worked out though and get back on track. Just have a :cheers:
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So, how many micron do you figure this fuel pickup filter screen is?
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...4726475981.jpg Add fuel delivery to the want list I guess. I siphoned old gas out of the Camaro last summer and it came out nice and clear, but old and smelly. I had no reason to suspect the tank until this summer when I siphoned last summers gas in preparation of dropping the tank for rear spring work... I saw some black grit in the fuel I siphoned. Yesterday I dropped the tank, probably the first time ever out of the car. This is what the pickup/sending unit looked like. http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...4726478020.jpg The inside of the tank after I scraped and poked at the rusty sludge with a screwdriver. http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...4726473237.jpghttp://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...4726474152.jpg Here is the sediment after I poured off the liquid portion of the gas... Hey, rockets burn "solid fuel" to some extent right? Maybe I could start a new trend.:rolleyes: http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...4726472287.jpg So now, what to do about it? I can replace with stock or stainless "stock" for a few hundred, I don't see efi being a reality soon budget wise... but how to upgrade the tank effectively and not waste money? I shouldn't call it a waste, but you get the gist.. lots of other areas to cover and this was fairly unforeseen. I'd love to see a fabbed SS tank with baffles and Vaporworx pickups under there but I don't think it is in the cards. Let me know what you think, I was reading that 3/8" line can only support 400hp which is not a problem for me now, but Someday...;) |
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