Chasing the Ghosts of LeMans - Thunder - Project 487 Super Snake
 

Hi Guys

So to start off the theme of this thread, Thunder is not just a pretty face. It is driven, and driven on the track. There are some more chassis upgrades on the radar, but with a hurt engine, I'm starting the thread there.

Without getting into too much history, this engine has already been in and out of the 'stang several times.

1st, the good 'used' engine, was not so good, bad bearings, and 60 grams out of balance. That was toast. The only things saved from that engine were the block, crank and timing cover.

The first rendition of the 428 looked good. Not for long though.
*

Next we had a bad camshaft grind, leaking intake gasket, and valve seals.

Next we had an oiling problem on the rear main (oil starvation)

*

All was going well for a while. Quite a while. A great, relaible street engine, with lots of torque.

I took it to track day in 2011, and melted the rear tires on the track. It was a lot of fun. The suspension was not great, and neither was cornering.

Then I took it to the drag strip last year. Snapped the pinion 30 feet off the line, on the first run.



Time for a rear suspension upgrade. Caltracs on, specially designed for the lowered suspension.



They were great.

Then getting ready for track day 2012, I stretched the front fenders and added wider front tires. Completed the cooling ducts to the rear brakes.

*

Track day was great. Handling was much better. Cornering was awesome.

Unfortunately I spun out, while trying to push my trail braking later and later. Probably the tires grabbed and the engine ran backwards, after the spin, until I got my foot into the clutch.

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[I've updated the thread with some more historic photos of the build from early on]

Post track day Diagnosis

Cut open the filter; Copper coloured flakes, and some tiny metal fragments. = Could be bearing

Running the engine, was rough increasing after 2000 rpm and up.

Checked the flywheel inspection cover, for clutch debris, or evidence of pilot bushing wear = none
No oil leaks from the rear main bearing seal = maybe the rear main bearing is okay.

Pulled the valve covers, spun the pushrods = some look bent.
Removed the pushrods = at least 5 were bent.

Got a leakdown tester, and bore scope.

Bore scope = doesn't look like any valves kissed the pistons, but pistons look ugly.

Leakdown = not good the cylinders which had the bent pushrods, are 10-18%, the good cylinders are 4-5%

Next step; pull the engine and remove the heads.

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[A few more of the ealy project photos]

Plan;
Send the heads out to a builder specializing in the porting of FE heads.
The head work should net 30-40 hp depending on cam.
Springs = go for a stiffer spring compatable with road racing upshifting & downshifting

Camshaft, might stay with the solid cam I have now. Might go custom grind.

Block = if the pistons, bores and bearings look good, then leave it alone.
If the pistons look bad = forged stroker kit
If the bearings look bad, switch the block for a 427 side oiler aluminum, 100 - 150 pounds lighter, with a better oiling system, suitable for road racing.

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[Another set of early project photos]

I always liked your car on the FE forum. I think it fits better here.:thumbsup:

Send your heads to Blair Patrick you won't regret it. I would also have him spec a cam for you. He is a true gentleman in addition to building some of the baddest FEs out there.

The Pond block is a work of art and weighs less than 115 lbs. When I bought mine it shipped regular UPS. Stop messing around buy the Pond block and put a 4.375 crank in it.:D

Thanks Rob, I've been checking out your build too. I hit the 1st page of your build, and was already drooling :thumbsup:

Yes the aluminum block would be much better on the track. I'll have to cash in a few empties before I can order one, though ;)

Keep us posted Doug, and remember we need pics! I know your not shy in that dept. :thumbsup:

Yep. Definately belongs here too!!!

Man what a saga... you keep pluggin holes.... great documentation... and thanks for sharing... I like these threads. :thumbsup:

Maybe you can make it down to a track event with us one of these years. :cheers:

Hi Guys, thanks for the feedback.

Pictures are coming

For now here are a couple of the online magazine links'

Street Legal TV;

http://www.streetlegaltv.com/news/pa...g-tribute-car/


I'm pretty overwhelmed by the responses. Makes me want to get it roadworthy as soon as I can.

It will be quite another evolution going from pro-street, to a really stellar track car. Lots of little tweaks on the suspension. An alumiunm 427 blockk would help with the weight on the front end ;-)

[Another set of pre-paint pics]

Pictures are coming:ttiwop:

Take your time and get that motor right. And yes every FE lover needs a Pond block. :cheers:

Maybe top it off with this.
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/l...FEpolished.jpg

Welcome to the site Doug. Sorry to hear of your engine woes but I'm glad to hear your having a little more fun with the car.
Keep plugging brother. :thumbsup:

I was on vacation for 1 week.
When I got back, I decided to try and fix the front forks on my old mountain bike. That was a mistake. The front forks collapsed while I was riding at about 3-4mph, and I ended up doing a sideways face plant on the asphalt.



20 stitches later, I was back from the emerg with wounded pride and blood to clean up everywhere. It actually looks nastier today, with all the swelling around the eye and gunky looking road rash.

But on the car front, I could not wait, even though I am pretty sore everywhere from the bike incident.

Got the car jacked up and started pulling the exhaust and drivetrain.
Maybe tomorrow, I'll start prepping the engine for pull out, depending how I feel.



oh yeah, I'm never going to try and fix stupid bikes ever again!

Damn, you look like **** dude :lol:

Well at least he can fix the car :rofl: Wait who put those forks together? :rolleyes:

Yeah you should have seen me yesterday, when my eye was black and blue, swollen shut LOL I looked like a half eaten pizza

Well we'll see if I can fix the car.

I guess I can take it apart some more ;)

Hopefully while in the ER you didn't run into any wisearse gearheads who said...'Yeah, that'll buff out.'

:D

LOL, yeah one guy lied and said I looked good! What a liar ;)


I've been in a low motivation mood, for getting things done on the car, so I thought that I would motivate myself by revisiting aome of the pics from the past car events, and cruises over the past 2-3 years. The car is such a blast to drive!



Already I am feeling more motivated to get going. So maybe it will work, and I'll get my ass in gear!

Celebration of road trips

http://i1034.photobucket.com/albums/...s/STP80101.jpg


http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/v...e/DSC02039.jpg





http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/9347/dscn0170r.jpg

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/5131/dscn0174wk.jpg

http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/3485/dscn0192l.jpg

Manning
http://www.venommustangs.com/pics/cp...i-IMG_3633.JPG

http://www.venommustangs.com/pics/cp...i-IMG_3650.JPG

http://i1041.photobucket.com/albums/...2/DSC00955.jpg


Hells gate


http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/u...d/bbf15486.jpg

http://i1041.photobucket.com/albums/...2/DSC02409.jpg

http://i1041.photobucket.com/albums/...2/DSC02368.jpg

How about this. If you don't get to work on that pretty little Mustang my Torino is going to put an FE to FE wooping on it. :wow:

Pictures look like a lot of fun. :thumbsup: :cheers:

Okay engine is out.

Clutch looks a little worn but okay. Pilot bushing and flywheel look okay. No oil leaks from the rear main seal (which there was when the bearing failed a year or so ago)

So a good start.

Going to try and get all the crap off of the front of the engine tonight

Well the heads are off.

I have not tested the intake valves, but checked all of the exhaust valves, for leakage.

As you can see, they very much correspond with the bent pushrods.

and the previous leakdown test;

Leakdown

#1 16% retest 18%
#2 5%
#3 26% retest 14% (could have been a leaking fitting 1st time)
#4 8%

#5 5% retest 4% (this was the last cylinder to be retested, just to verify the numbers were meaningful)
#6 18% retest 12% retest 10% (could have been a leaking fitting 1st time)
#7 5%
#8 12% retest 9%

As you can see by the photos;



Number 6 and 8 exhaust valves are pissing

and on the other side;



Number 1 and number 3 exhaust. Number 3 seems to be the worst, on this test.

Sorry about the shadow, some close ups;




The test is supposed to be done with brake cleaner or kerosene. I had paint thinner which is close enough to kerosene.

So decision Monday, if I send the heads out to be CNC'd or just fixed.

Pistons look fine. Nothing kissed any of them, so I am assuming not stiff enough valve springs on the stock edelbrock heads.

It'd be awesome to get this all back together soon, but I know the summer everyone is damn busy, but we'll see after I phone around.

Port Matching, on the intake.

Despite reading and re reading, posts saying "there is little or no significant gain in power, by doing intake port matching"

I decided to ignore it, and check out my port alignment.

Check it out;



I think, there are one or two horsepower there.

I have very noticable marks on the intake manifold, from the gaskets, so it makes it pretty easy, to mark up the manifold.

Took me one hour to do one side, the other side tomorrow night.

I have 7 of 8 of the intake manifold ports done. One more to go, and then I'll do a detail on the ports.

I took the heads by my engine shop, and got them disassembled, washed and brought them back home.

The intention is to do my own port and polish, along with a combustion chamber detail. I've done a lot of research on porting these heads, and what to be careful of.

I also picked up a couple of BBC (used) valves, to protect the seats, while I am doing the combustion chambers.

It should not be too bad, as it is just detailing. I'm not planning on removing a lot of material. Emphasis will be on the bowls. Smoothing the rough spots. Nice radiuses. Polishing the exhaust ports, and unshrouding the valves in the combustion chambers.

Doug, sorry to hear about your face!! Hope you get better and get the car back on the road soon.

Thanks :)

Face looks beautiful, now. I am entering myself in one of those "top model" shows next year (haha)

NOT!:lol:

Pretty much healed up now.

Ports on the intake are complete. I smoothed out (not polished) the roof of the ports (long radius) and I am using a coarse file to rough up the shorter (bottom radius), inside the intake manifold.

I started on the heads, beginning with an exhaust port.

A little smaller than the intake, but more forgiving.
I think it looks good so far. I got most of it roughed out in 30 minutes.

I picked up one of these too, but havent really used it yet;


Pics soon

Now that is hilarious right there. :lol: (Sorry Doug :D)

I am laughing too, what else can you do? I just wonder what part of my body, I'm going to f-up next ;)

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Porting work so far;

Intake is pretty much done, unless I change the shape of the ports on the head.



The last thing, I am going to do is hit the ports with a coarse file, to texture them a little.

Heads;

I started with an exhaust port, because it's smaller, and a little more forgiving, if I F-it up. I have a pretty good understanding of aerodynamics and hydrodynamics, so used that in shaping the exhaust port, and bowl.

I took into consideration, the shape of the header opening, and raised the port slightly. Next I ovaled the port slightly, again to match the header port, since they are a little taller than the heads.

The bowl is quite a bit deeper on the exit side of the port.



(Head is upside down, in pic below) I didn't do much with the short radius, other than a slight polish. I did turn down the port exit, into the header, as the header pipes all turn down



Once I'm done, the exhaust will get a nice polish, then I can replicate on the other 7 exhaust ports

So I am thinking, that with the improved ports, I might need a few more cubic inches, or a more agressive cam. I like my existing cam, though.

Checking out one of these;
http://www.survivalmotorsports.com/i...ank_edited.jpg

Which will bump me up about 30 cu, to 462

I should reach a conclusion, over the weekend.

You could run one of Dougs POP 4.375 steel cranks and a hydro roller and make a bunch of hp and torque all below 6k rpm.

The Ports are one piece but don't forget the valve job that can make an even bigger difference in flow especially at low lift numbers.

Hmmm yeah checked out the 4 3/8" crank, but a lot more issues, including camshaft clearance.

I have all the ports pretty well roughed out. I started unshrouding the valves, tonight. Once the valves are unshrouded, then the plugs, chambers, and bowls.

Lastly I polish the exhausts, and chambers.

Don't know who's selling you the story of cam clearance with that size crank. I'm running a solid roller that is bigger than any usable hydro and no issue there, no real issues with the 4.375 stroke period except the upcomming traction problems. :D Now 4.5 like Jay Brown originally went to run in his HR that's a different story.

Well, maybe I'll have to do more research.

For now I got another few hours of porting and polishing done. I decided to work on the combustion chambers. UNshrouding the valves, spark plugs, and chamber.
I have one head roughed out, and a system now, for what I want to do.

After the chambers, I'll tackle the bowls.

A few pics of the combustion chamber work (whew this takes a long time) Work on the chambers, unshrouding the valves, a little radius work around the spark plug relief, and a polish to 800. Once the chambers are all done, I'll CC them, and after that they get a final polish.

Well back to the grind, or should I say grinding.
House renovation project is finished.
I think I have the intakes on one head done, on to the next head, and then the exhausts.

A few more pics, of the head work. Close to 2/3 of the way through, I think.

Sometimes I get the idea to do things a little different,as the heads progress.

Generally pretty close. A little more polishing of the exhausts and chambers.

Are you going to flow the heads when you are done?
Who is doing the valve job?

Yeah I'd like to flow the heads, if I can find someone local, who does this.
I'm actually being pretty conservative. Port match the intakes. I opened up and ovaled the exhaust ports slightly. Widened the bowls around the valve stems, and unshrouded the valves and spark plugs slightly.

Spent a little time on the long turns, and roof of the ports. I didn't want to lose any velocity on the intake side or create any dead spots. I'll probably leave the intake surface rough

I did very little on the short turn radiuses, smoothed edges, cleaned up the flash, and gave a polish on the exhaust side

I'd be curious to see what difference there is.

I am going to CC them, as a last step. Lots of work, esp on the exhaust.

Yeah, because of the bent pushrods, the valves and seats must be redone.

Well the block is mostly apart, except for the cam.

I have a few more micrometers to get, and a dial bore set, and then I should have all the tools I need.

Tonight I was working on some basic oiling improvements;

Deflashing the oil drainbacks in the block.


Enlarging the feed from the pump to the oil filter adaptor to 7/16 (same size as the main gallery)


Chamfering the mains supply very slightly


Increasing the size of the drainback hole in the heads, chamfering, and polishing the "gutters" for faster drainback, less oil pooling

Well, I think that I have the intake ports pretty much, where I want them, on one head at least.

I should qualify that a little I was mapping the air flow, with compressed air, and "think" the ports are good.



More later

A few things are happening on the engine front.
Hopefully I'll have something to talk about in a week or two.

Lots of decisions.

Well, I am deciding cubic inches, this weekend. Hope to weigh all the options this weekend.
465 (428 block), or 482 cubic inches. (427 block)

Most of all the other parameters will be about the same. Maybe a slight cam difference with the cubic inch diff.