Schwartz chassis for 82-92 Camaros?
 

I have been building a 87 Camaro with mostly bolt on suspension parts. While much better than stock there is a limited amout of options. I was thinking that a Schwarts Performance chassis system would be a great addition to that platform and maybe help bring that generation some respect. What are your thoughts about this idea?


Greg Dorris

Waste of time and resources.

I think you need to add some detail and reasoning behind statements like this... since I'm confused.

Is adding bolt on parts to his car a waste of time or is the Schwartz chassis a waste of time? And if so -- why?

I think he might have meant its a waste because the car doesn't really need a better chassis. It already had a well supported chassis and a torque arm 3 link setup has been proven to work well. Its done everything from run in the 8s in the quarter to run over 300mph on the Bonneville flats (with a stock aeroed body btw) and its been well proven in SCCA competition over the years as well. As much as I would love some shiney new designs for my 91 I can't really ever reason why I need them.

What it DOES need is more LSx swap support. There are all the parts needed to do the swap but only a handful of companies make them so they run a monopoly on the prices. We need better swap longtubes for decent prices. Nearly $1000 for a set of 1 3/4 primary/ 3" collector headers is crazy. $1200+ if you want to run 1 7/8 like I would want to. And those prices are without a midpipe..:wow:

First off...3rd genner's are inherently cheap by nature. I have been part of the 3G society for 20 years and I see it all the time. They bitch about not having alot of high dollar items made for their cars, and then as soon as a company steps up and offers something really nice, they bitch about how expensive it is. Put it this way, I have more money invested into my wheels and tires than 95% of 3rd gens are worth. There are not alot of us out there willing to step up to the plate to build a high quality (expensive) 3rd gen car. What I'm getting at it's a small market segment. This may, and I hope, change in the future as more people see how great these cars can be when built right.

Second...there is already enough good products out there to make a 3G car handle exceptionally well that are ALOT cheaper than bolting on a complete full frame chassis (band-aid) underneath.

Don't get me wrong, I love seeing all the cool widgets the older cars have on the market, and would like to see more for 3G cars. But, for instance, I also take alot of pride in building or making something for my car that's not on the market. IE, the minitub I fabbed up this year. It helps set my car apart from the crowd because no one has a kit for it yet.:cheers:

I will agree with him almost completely. I've owned s 3rd gen for the better part of 15 years and know most all of them are very cheap people or have champagne taste on a bottled water budget. But having said that, on some of the parts we absolutely DO get raped on pricing.

I think that alot of these chassis shops have done some sort of market analysis on what the industry wants and needs. At least a good company would do that in order to keep turning out great products. With that being said, I'm pretty sure Schwartz, Roadster Shop, Art Morrison, etc realize it's probably not enough of a market demand to put the time and R & D into doing an 82-92 Camaro chassis. Now finally, with all that being said...if your pockets are deep enough, Roadster Shop or any chassis shop for that matter will build you anything you want. You know, that big money word called "one off".

There WILL be a big market demand for 3rd gens and Fox Body Mustangs once those people who had them when they were younger want to re-live thier youth. They are rare and hard to find in decent shape and IMO will be the next 1st gen Camaro/Mustang/Mopar of the future.

When I was a teenager everybody and thier dog had a fox body Mustang. They were my nemesis. But all those people are going to want one again, trust me.

A no I won't :mad: And mine was pretty fast for a street car in 89' and into the 90's! Went mid 11's on motor :cool: Never sprayed! Oh and mine was one of those slow automatics :lol: That always got me some good races.

I agree.

I had a Fox body pull up next to me today at lunch (I was in the IROC)...boy did that get the blood flowing again...it was like the 90's all over again. LOL I think the blower whine scared him off though:rofl:

I made an inquiry with Dale at Schwartz Performance and he advised that they looked into a 3rd gen chassis but it required lots of cutting and welding on the floor and then there was the fact that not many 3rd gen guys would be willing to pay the price for the chassis. However, I thought that it might be a good way to upgrade and get some of that wow factor and solve some of the drawbacks of the hatchback design. I have seen builds where the owners wanted IRS or corvette based front suspensions and a chassis would make having those options easier. When I started my build my budget didn’t allow for a “one off” piece but now it could be an option. I also agree with you guys on the availability and price of LSX swap parts. I’m going to run a 418ci LS3 and choices for the exhaust system are pretty slim.

This is what happens when you’re separated from your pride and joy for an extended period of time and have access to forums where guys like (our hero) Mark Stielow show off all the cool technology and creative innovations that keep us excited about the hobby. I’m committing the cardinal sin…I’m dreaming of all the cool ways that I could be building my car instead of following the original plan. I’ll probably be perfectly happy with the performance of my car when it’s done but we all know what it is like to want something different and cool.

Well -- that IS what this hobby is all about.... Livin' the dream. I'm all for it and whatever that "dream" is - a guy should go for it if he can.

Guys, y'all had to start the convo about IROC's and Mustangs, huh? If I had cash laying around and wanted 2 cars I could have and fix up to original standards and perfection. I'm talking about completely, showroom stock...they would be the 1984 IROC with T-tops and a 1992 Mustang GT. I love those cars. Those are more my era than 60's and 70's. I mean of course my passion is the classic 69 Camaro, 72 Chevelle, 61 Impala and a few others, but I wasn't alive to see all those cars rolling down the street. As far as the 84 IROC and 92 Mustang GT, I remember it like it was yesterday. :yes: :yes:

You would not get enough benfit from a chassis swap like that. Factory geometry was not bad and they are already well proven in SCCA. Of all the cars I want back is my 90 IROC and will have another as soon as I find the right car.

The 3rd gens HAVE proven themselves time and time again... BUT it's all relative. 1982 technology isn't as good as it was in the 90's. If you lower a 3rd gen to get a great stance, you have suspension limitations and bump steer problems.

"Rybar" said that there will be a demand for such a thing, and i completely agree. I have owned my 1982 TA for 7 years now and it was my first car. I have mild suspension upgrades and a 4pt Autopower rollbar... and I can feel the car twist going up the driveway. No, I don't have subframe connectors, but it's still weak. Also my 5 year old paint job is already cracked at the top rear seam where the roof meets the rear pillar.
So while it may be 'good enough' for the cheaper guys, there is a lot of room for improvement.

:)

-Dale Schwartz
Schwartz Performance Inc.

What ever floats your boat I guess

Yes its doable but whole new floor would probably have to fabricated and it would work well. cost = 5 figures easy.

on the flip side.
all fully adjustable sphon/hawks/BMR suspension set up good shocks like Penske or Ohlins or JRI Kore3 C6 zo6 brake kit.
would probably put you right up there with a good after market chassis plus a cage to strengthen the whole deal up no whole new floor pan either. cost = 4 figures.

its all in what you want and how much money you want to spend.

point.
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ebodbird-1.jpg

Matt

No such thing as an 84 IROC 85 was the first year:P

Good discussion, I am a 4th gen Trans Am veteran before my 69 and I never saw too many people go away from bolting on parts to the stock style Torque arm suspension. Like others said, you can do a nice setup with any of those companies like BMR, Spohn, UMI etc and the prices of the parts are relatively cheap. One of my good friends does a lot of auto crossing his 4th gen and he says with the right bolt on parts he can spank C5's and C6's. He stresses brakes, tires and shocks are most important.

I always have my eye out for clean Fox body Mustangs and 91-92 Trans Am GTA's. Heck I almost bought a 91 GTA recently but found something else ;) I love the cars from the 90's even the RX7's, Supras etc it was a fun time.

My bad, a few people were driving 85's at the end on 84. So, I thought they were 84's. Hey, I was only 11 years old then and didn't know any better. LOL!! Nonetheless, I love them.

Haha...I was 11 years old as well! My IROC was built in April of 85...the cool thing about that is that the color, Artic White, wasn't introduced until mid year so they are fairly rare....I've only seen one other white 85 IROC.

Bro, never sale that car unless it's life or death. I love those cars. :yes: :yes:

doesn't really seem like there are too many guys out there yet with some serious money locked up in thirdgens, but it looks it slowly headed towards that directions especially with these lsx motors.

I have a combination of suspension parts on my Camaro to include Spohn, Eibach, Hotchkis, TDS, J&M Strutmounts, and Moog steering components. So I'm not particular to one company, but this article was in the newest issue of Camaro Performers with the article comparing the times to a 2011 Camaro. Of course, there have been several other articles with various media outlets through the years comparing times to newer vehicles. It's all in what you want and how much you are willing to spend.
http://www.camaroperformers.com/cama...uspension-kit/

im new to this board, i have a 92 third gen.. i agree most people want sexy parts on a low budget... im one of those guys, but a piece at a time and you will get there... if you readbook on suspention set up and design and aerodynamics you will see the potential in these cars, but stiffening the chassis is a must, nomatter what...

im by no means a suspention designer , but i do love the look on a porshe owners face when a beet old camaro keeps pulling on him in a curvy canyon road ...these are fantastic cars, as long as there set up right, they will suprise you over and over..

with the right knowledge and tools you can build anything yourself.... for example...i didnt want the half ass coilover set that is provided for our cars and i didnt want off the shelf struts... i wanted a set of penske struts... but they cost alot,, i cant afford that... i built my own set.. a buddy of mine builds racing shocks for a living.. took us a year to design them and machine the internals... but i did it.. ONE OFF.. and rears with external resi as well... i guess what im trying to say is, if you want it bad enough, you can build it yourself, and know there is only one in the world like yours:thumbsup:

Any body can have sexy part's on a budget.Spend your money on tool's instead of part's.Start by buying Welder's(Tig,Mig),Band saw(hor,Vert),drill press,vert mil,lathe,tube bender & notcher,bead roller,shear,bending brake,Hand tools,drill bits,end mill cutter's,Etc.This is what I did.I built a shop and made sure I had equipment to build a hot rod on a budget.Or you could do what my friend's did!!!!!.Become friend's with someone who has a fab shop and hang out until he gets tried of hearing you bitch about having trouble building stuff and then does it for you,just so you will go away.!!!!!!

Scott that is some of best advice I seen posted in a long time!!! And so true!! :idea: :cheers:

well put 62:thumbsup:

Wana be friends? :lmao: