Front Suspension Concerns
 

I received this picture and I am a bit concerned.

Ridetech upper/lower, spindles, tru-turn, Forgeline 18x10 w/ 6.1 back spacing(Right Ron?)

What are your thoughts?

Cole the Backspacing according to what Ride Tech has posted else where it should be 5.75 bs?? I would call them to make sure? :_paranoid

I called Ridetech and someone there said the 48 Camaro had 5.5" backspacing..

Maybe a small spacer will correct it or ???

I think I may have a pair of 1/2" spacers laying around. Let me know if you need them.

Did you do anything to the inner fenders and fender lips?? I know the 69 has more room then a 67-68 but I still think you need widen them up a bit.

Concerned it may push the fronts out to far. It's borderline. I'll keep ya posted though.

.

Inner were on, not sure if they hit or not though. Ill keep a eye out

What is it?

The TruTurn system is an upgraded steering system that includes the following:

Spindles – taller overall to improve the camber gain and a raised spindle pin to lower your car by 2" [ Click to see the difference ]
Steering Arms – designed to correct bumpsteer AND allow clearance for up to a 10" wide wheel with a 5.75" backspacing.
Draglink bracket – bolts onto your oem draglink to relocate the inner tierod end to minimize bumpsteer
Tie Rod Assemblies – integrates with your new steering arms and centerlink to provide a tru "no fab" bolt on steering system.

from ridetechs website


if they say 5.75 and you are at 6.1 then a 5/16" spacer will get you damn close that or a 3/8th spacer

3/8th spacer will net you a 5.725 backspacing position. if you get those 1/2 spacers then you would be at 5.6" backspacing

Come to think of it 6.1 will be OK but you will rub frame rail lock to lock. You will be limited on ride height and tire width though. You can get a 275 but you most likely will have to roll fender lips. 255's are typically 1/2" narrower than 275's so you sill might have to roll fender lips but most of this will depend on ride height. Stiff springs and single adjustable shocks will be a big help.

I was I thinking a 3/8" spacer but wasn't sure.

The only place that is suspect is that upper control arm. Not sure of the spring rate. Set up for sbc and single adjustables.

BS is 6.75 if I remember correctly. Last time I saw the car it made lock to lock on the ground and fit the outer just fine. Nothing from pics can be deteremined in my mind. Cole - let's take a ride out there, mount the fenders/remove the springs get a 'real' measurement. :cheers:

6.75" ahhh, you might be right. They were your's... LoL

Road trip..

Truturn and 10" wheel
 

I don't see how anyone is running a 10" wheel and 275 tire on the front of a '69 Camaro unless they are not driving the car or living with a high ride height. Earlier this year I installed the complete front Ridetech suspension with Truturn and tested for clearance with my existing rear 18x10 w/5 3/4" BS and 275 tire. With approx 3" drop (23.5" fender to ground), and anywhere close to full lock, there was extreme rubbing at the top, squarish portion of the fender. I could not see how I could use this combination without severe modification of fender and fenderwell. I went with a 18x9 wheel 5 3/4 BS and 275 tire and that works OK and the tire just rubs the back of the frame at full lock. I would have liked getting the car a little lower but the kit already decreases turning radius by at least 10% so it's not feasible to go with a lot more backspacing. After I got the front aligned, I went back and checked this again and saw no improvement in clearance.

A friend just building his 69 also went with the Truturn and wanted a 1/2 lower height so after testing with my 18x9 combination he went with the 18x9 and 6 1/4 BS and 265 tire. He won't have his on the road for 6 months or so.

Gary

That's good, real world feedback Gary. Pretty much what Cole and I spoke about last night - 9" wheel, 5.75 to 5.9 BS. We need to get out there and measure...:unibrow:

Unless that tru turn set up widens your track width 6.75 will definitely rub frame rail. I'm running 5.5 back space with a 275 and I rub lock to lock. Not bad enough to be a concern.

Cole, didn't know you were a friend of Ron's. Cover shipping and I'll give you the spacers.

Gary,
More negative camber in lieu of less treadwear life would have likely got you there. As the old saying goes, you can't bake your cake and eat it too. Unless you hire a fabricator. :unibrow:

Todds right. My fronts are 17x9.5 with 275's. I had to cut inner fender wells and slightly flare fenders. Also running 1.5 neg camber in this pic.

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/a...eCamaro003.jpg

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/a...eCamaro005.jpg

An 18x10 wheel with a 5.75" backspace and a 275-35/18 tire will fit with [as our website and catalog indicates] a minimal amount of inner/outer fender modification on the 67 and 68 Camaro. The 69 is similar but I have not personally sttod next to one to bless the fitment yet, although we've had several customers report good fitment.
The definition of "minimal" is subjective, but my definition is modifications that can be done by most hotrodders with average experience, with commonly available hand tools in an evening . I understand that still may not clear it up but I don't know how to define it further.
Having said all that, we installed a set of 18x9.5 wheels with that same 275 tire on our 68 Camaro and didn't trim anything all all. No clearance issues except if you drop it in a hole while turned full lock.

The other variable here is ride height. I don't have the fender/ground measurement in front of me [but I'll get it], but it could be that you have selected a ride height that is lower than what we selected. No shame in that at all, but it will change the tire clearance and must be accommodated.

Also...we can't account for any variation of component combination someone might be running, no matter how good it sounds on paper. If you substitute control arms, spindles, steering arms...the tire clearance might be changed...just no way to verify all the various combinations.

In short, looks like you'll be needing 1" spacers. Make sure the spacers you get will be hubcentric. Its important to have a lip for the wheel to bare its weight on rather than having the lugs alone bare the weight. Dont think I need to mention you will need longer wheel studs.

To be honest Cole, I don't think you will have an issue with the suspension fully loaded. This is just from your picture.

If it was a concern what I would do is add a bit of material to the LCA turn stops.Looking at the tire position that is way more than you would turn to do a u turn or pull a decent parallel park job.

Scrub radius may be a very important part of this equation if your not following the specs to the T.

Great point Roger. Spacers will change your scrub radius. In my experience 5.5" backspace with a 9.5" wide wheel works very well. Although, if your not going to be competing with the car I dont think you will notice.

EDIT: Pad thickness of the wheel will also affect scrub radius.

You have to get the pivot center of the spindle to fall in the middle of the tire. The further off it is the more movement you will get out of the tire. Does the tire pivot around the axis or roll around it. It is rolls your going to need more room meaning a smaller tire.

If I understand this right the center pivot of the spindle would be the center of the ball joint. Is this correct?

So the heck with the spacer, go for a re-hoop?

Thanks to all those that replied. Here is picture from either side of the car without a alignment yet. Not sure if its helpful.

looks like you need some negative camber and all the weight on the front end.

Roger is right. I learned this lesson the hard way but there are other factors to consider when trying to achieve this. Not only is spindle location important but in order to complete this path to the tire you need to transfer this location through the center of the wheel and where it attaches to the hoop. Optimim location cant always be achieved. This is why.....When ordering wheels at a particular back space and trying to make room for bigger calipers sometimes optimum spindle location and where the center of the wheel meets the hoop is hard to achieve due to pad mounting thickness needed to clear calipers. Hope that made sense.
I'm not sure if this is something that just applies to first gen Camaro's as I am no expert but seems to have been my findings through past experience.

Cole, if you intend on being competitive in events rehooping is your best bet. Be sure to let the wheel manufacturer know what caliper you are using. Bringing the center of the wheel in will put you closer to your caliper. In addition if the pad mounting thickness of the wheel is not thick enough you may end up having a whole new center section made.

Picture a line center of upper ball joint center to lower ball joint center continuing to the ground. Also known as king pin inclination

http://www.mgf.ultimatemg.com/group2...ering_axis.gif

Excellent drawing!
There is LOTS of generic info on scrub radius issues around the forums and suspension type websites...and damn little consensus about what is "right".

My OPINION: I've built some cars with as small a scrub radius as possible...they seemed to be very light on the steering, some to the point they were twitchy. On my 33 Ford, the scrub as originally .568 negative...the centerline of the tire was about 9/16 inboard of the scrub line. Felt ok, but a little light and twitchy...but maybe I was just trying to get used to the car.
I changed to a 2" wider front wheel, with the extra width all to the outside, and from a 275 to a 315mm front tire. This moved the scrub radius to approx. 1.5" positive. Aside from the extra front traction, the car had a more stable and firm feel to it in a straight line, and has no "tramming" effects [following the grooves in the road].
Just my experience.

There are a group of circle track guys who recommend a zero scrub radius to make their cars easier to steer with no power steering. It probably works for them, but within their very narrow parameters.

Kind of reviving this. What was the consensus? I've been following Gaetano's build and like his set up but I too have considered running the 10's on my soon to be 69. I'm not worried about making mods to the inner fender, and/or limiting steering lock to lock. My concern is modifying the fender itself. I'd rather not lose the OEM fender.

Gaetano, you mention you modified the inner and outer fender. Are you talking about rolling the flange or actually pulling the fender out for more flare?

Bret, I am wanting to run the 18x10's 5.75 bs. On your system, are you restricting overall drop to 2"s? I know I can adjust for more drop with spring rates but don't want the same issues Cole is running into. I realize most of his trouble is his back space.

Cole, any new results?

David

Inner wheel well was cut out where it rubbed. I used a baseball bat to roll the front fender. I dont recommend doing this if your car is already painted or you want to keep the front fenders looking stock.

So whats the verdict Cole? Those 1/2" spacers I gave you work out?

Thanks Gaetano. I was aware of rolling the fender flange. You've answered my question. All of my worries are gone. I'm not worried about rolling the flange. I just didn't want to get into changing the OEM shape of the outer fender.

David